Aluvi Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 No, you clearly didn't get what I was hinting at. I'm trying to explain that while people will pick the cheapest, most easy class to play that requires very little player imput to pump out massive damage. Doesn't matter the game, they always do this. But there is some basis to your claim, but you don't see hardly any snipers, gunslingers, etc. It's because those classes are indeed more complicated to play. And that's the problem. People want the easy hit and smash classes (pun intended). Snipers in certain specs pump out the most damage in the game at the moment. If nothing changes, expect them to be the new FOTM. Smash is fine now, mercs still need some kind of buff. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarfunkz Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 So I was on the PTS today and critical chance really drops off after 20% now. I think it's fine, BUT smash still autocrits. I know a couple of other classes have some autocrit abilities, but nothing nearly as damaging as smash. What do you think about this? I know smash got a small nerf in damage, but still most smashers have around 82% surge or more. autocrit specs are going to be king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Uh oh, I upset a sniper who thinks his rotation is complicated. Engineering spec for optimum efficiency and damage. You can't do it, I've done it by accident only one time. Go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceelaniri Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Vanguard - In tactics tree Gut and Stockstrike have a 25% chance to make your next HiB autocrit. Hits in the lower 5ks and upper 4ks to geared players on live. On live HiB has a cooldown of 15s. On the PTS you can get this talent and Ionic Accelerator to get it every 6 seconds, but this will most likely be nerfed before it hits live. Note that VG/PT is already considered perhaps the best single target PVP DPS in the game. On PTS the hybrid is parsing 2900+ on the level 55 dummy. Battle Focus increases ranged and tech critical chance by 25% for 15 seconds. 2 minute cooldown. On a sidenote. On live, with this hybrid spec (23/18) your HIB won't hit someone for lower 5k. It will be around 3-4k max because you are missing Assault Trooper/Rain of Fire/Brutal Impact. There is a reason why traditional Assault specs are still favoured (i.e. burst via HIB and AP). Moreover, the hybrid spec has some ammo management issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natharon Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 No, you clearly didn't get what I was hinting at. I'm trying to explain that while people will pick the cheapest, most easy class to play that requires very little player imput to pump out massive damage. Doesn't matter the game, they always do this. But there is some basis to your claim, but you don't see hardly any snipers, gunslingers, etc. It's because those classes are indeed more complicated to play. And that's the problem. People want the easy hit and smash classes (pun intended). Ironic coming from the guy with a vanguard avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarai Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) for starters, you cannot have 82% surge I'm sorry but you're quite misinformed or if you even get on the PTS you don't bother looking at people and their stats http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/riverstyx666/Screenshot_2013-03-03_13_05_19_224701_zps0ae1f547.jpg There was a marauder that had an 88% crit mult in the same match as well. If this isn't just another slap in the face for AC's that don't have auto crit abilities, idk what is. Edited March 3, 2013 by Azarai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkPharohEclip Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) Either crit needs to be brought up back to 30% or autocrit abilities (all of them need to go). That being said a Advanced Prototype autocrit for 4k every 15 seconds is not comparable to a 9k (i see that being the biggest hit on the pts all the time) AOE smash. Besides again smash is an autocrit+has a surge bonus while an autocrit railshot from tactics does not have a surge bonus, nor does the autocrit shocck from the assasins tank tree, and again they are not aoe. 30% crit is viable, 20% crit forces everyone to stack power because crit is useless anyway and heavily favors autocrit specs like smash. And finally I believe that hybrids like a pyro-ap hybrid with a guardanteed crit railshot with the surge bonus to raishot (hybrid doable on pts) should also not be allowed, simply move the talents highier in the trees. Don't like the idea of diminishing returns on crit.... dev team has no clue what they are doing, if something is not broke don't fix it. If one class is a problem , whatever, but now they are effecting more than just one class they are giving everyone some huge nerf. This will only hurt Some more than others, and probably not so much the class that was originally targetted. What's the point of giving us the ability to go over 20 percent and alot of us have our crit up to well beyond 35 percent, then you are gonna take away its effectiveness. I swear this dev team has no clue what they are dong when it comes to the end game here and especially pvp. Edited March 3, 2013 by DarkPharohEclip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) I'm sorry but you're quite misinformed or if you even get on the PTS you don't bother looking at people and their stats http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/riverstyx666/Screenshot_2013-03-03_13_05_19_224701_zps0ae1f547.jpg There was a marauder that had an 88% crit mult in the same match as well. If this isn't just another slap in the face for AC's that don't have auto crit abilities, idk what is. huh surge is capped at 30%. oh wait, i know what it is. the focus/rage tree now gives a flat 15% surge to all attacks. so it must be actually adding to the character sheet for crit multiplier. otherwise, it is impossible to get more than 80% surge b/c the formula is capped at a gain of 30%. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=601726 Edited March 3, 2013 by cashogy_reborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarai Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) Regardless of where it comes from, that number needs to be lowered dramatically if they intend on giving the rest of us such a loss in actual crit chance. It's unbelievable you can get smashed for 8k or 9k CONSISTENTLY and the devs think nothing of it. EDIT: Yes you are correct the tool tip does indeed add that flat 15%, a friend of mine took all his skill points away and dropped him to 70% crit mult. After allocating his points it jumped to 85%. Whole lot of good adding that DR to sweep/smash really did Edited March 3, 2013 by Azarai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philelectric Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 the sad part of this is assassins/shadows in deception/infiltration are maybe the most affected by the crit change on the pts and people still think that those classes have a good dps because 1 time out of 10 000 when can crit 2 maul in a row. yes this total of 14k to 16k damage looks to strong but we will hit with a broken wet noodle when we will die poking you while you take our 25k hp faster than we take your remening 10k hp. WTB a non stupid crit chance to make my deception build useable in a warzone. Also, this gunslinger I got yesterday in a Novare coast will say assassins are overpowered because every crit I got in the Warzone were on him lol. Poor him I couldnt stop critting him. I was like OMG!!! Spike-maul--->8.8k maul(yes he was in pve gear and I have 45% partisan 50% EWH and 5% Conqueror) and my 8.8k maul was followed by a 3k shock and another maul for around 7.5k and a 5k discharge plus some other random fillers. But when I was fighting every other players i got a bunch of 3.4k mauls,some 2.8k shocks, a little bit of 5k discharges. Please Bioware, we want the crit diminishing return of the live patch, not the one of the pts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Dude ... Sage and no autocrit?. read tooltip for Turbulence and then post ... I stand corrected. Correcting the post. Don't play a sage and by the time I got around to going through all their trees I was tired and missed it. Good catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramtar Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) I'm sorry but you're quite misinformed or if you even get on the PTS you don't bother looking at people and their stats http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/riverstyx666/Screenshot_2013-03-03_13_05_19_224701_zps0ae1f547.jpg There was a marauder that had an 88% crit mult in the same match as well. If this isn't just another slap in the face for AC's that don't have auto crit abilities, idk what is. Crit Multiplier is the total amount when adding: class base + surge + skills/buff. My Sentinel's Crit Multiplier on PTS is 86.91% ( 50% (class base) + 20.91% (surge: 426) + 16% (skills/buffs)). Edited March 4, 2013 by Ramtar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotorCityMan Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 It's a star wars game, most of the populace is going to be force users, regardless of how strong or weak they are. Get over it. Ya, I'm a force user, you're not. I win, you lose, get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambulaGTS Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Metagame changed to everyone with no autocrit. Now instead of having 2 big hits you supposed to squise 3-4 normal hits in given amount of time with alacrity. Smashers were left in their cosy world of 1.x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamahara Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Smashers would be getting 12k hits if they left them how they are now in 1.7. Most of the hardest hitters have done 10k+ in 1.7 That being done on PvE geared players. Fully geared players won't get hit for more then 6-7k max., that being if the smasher gets lucky enough to not have his leap damage bonus get interrupted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluvi Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I'm sorry but you're quite misinformed or if you even get on the PTS you don't bother looking at people and their stats http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/riverstyx666/Screenshot_2013-03-03_13_05_19_224701_zps0ae1f547.jpg There was a marauder that had an 88% crit mult in the same match as well. If this isn't just another slap in the face for AC's that don't have auto crit abilities, idk what is. http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a564/aluvian/WZStatsFront_zps6d944d6d.jpg - Without 2nd Relic, for exp/stat boost on bolster. http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a564/aluvian/Screenshot_2013-03-04_07_20_35_404837_zps079885d1.jpg -With 2nd Relic, for double power proc amazingness. I'm the guy you were refering to. This is full best in slot lvl 65 gear, 100% min/maxed. Marauders were nerfed somewhat. Their Dark Resonance ability went from granting +30% surge to force attacks, to only granting 15% surge, but to all attacks. This was to make them more capable at dealing single target damage, and to tune down their AOE (which is what the primary complaint was). That has been accomplished. I feel that 2.0 brought a lot of balance to the game, and this change actually encourages warriors to now take more crit. Sadly, Bioware decided to nerf crit DR into the ground, meaning that it is still not viable to take for warriors, or indeed, for ANYONE. Before this thread gets derailed, I'd just like to emphasize one thing: This thread should be focused on why Bioware needs to UN-Nerf crit to some degree on the PTS and when 2.0 goes live. This thread should NOT be focused on how this one talent change was overpowered or how marauders need nerfed more. Have a nice day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluvi Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 And just for the LOLs... My stats when both relics proc simultaneously: http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a564/aluvian/Screenshot_2013-03-04_07_35_46_700960_zpsb34d09e8.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambulaGTS Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Well that's just a living proof of topic essence. If someone could have 1100 melee bonus even on a limited time (imagine what number was for force bonus), 102 % force crit multiplayer and reliable autocrit on force aoe attack (that supposed to bypass newly buffed tank shields), that's something wrong here. Edited March 4, 2013 by BambulaGTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluvi Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Well that's just a living proof of topic essence. If someone could have 1100 melee bonus even on a limited time (imagine what number was for force bonus), 102 % force crit multiplayer and reliable autocrit on force aoe attack (that supposed to bypass newly buffed tank shields), that's something wrong here. yet Lethality Snipers and Power Techs both keep up or exceed our dps, and they do mostly single target, whereas Rage needs to be hitting 3-4 targets on every smash to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambulaGTS Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Well, I find dotting up everything for numbers kinda flawed, cause speaking of organized pvp, if you dot your primary goal is to deplete enemy healers resource pools, which is probaly doable toward sorcs, but I doubt will be doable for operative healers. While big hits just kill people straight forward. I think getting high in numbers with 7k + hits is more fun and productive than having comparable numbers with 1-1,5 k dot ticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryRow Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 The reason this change is bad is that it makes 1v1's and small skirmishes more dependent on RNG and luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 The reason this change is bad is that it makes 1v1's and small skirmishes more dependent on RNG and luck. thats part of it for sure. winner of a 1v1 is now determined by who gets more lucky with crits, which is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) I am surprised how noone has spoken yet about why the DR on crit was brought. My opinion is mostly for tanks, since they will have bigger chances to shield now. But to be fair, 20% crit chance seems quite low for a hard diminish return to me , when many classes relies on them while others not. Edited March 4, 2013 by Keldaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluvi Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Was the formula actually changed, or are we just not getting enough crit because the dr curve was designed for level 50, and instead of adjusting the curve to be more forgiving in relation to our level, they left the formula as is? Basically what I am saying is, the DR curve has gotten steeper, but the amount of crit rating has stayed the same. Most mmos have stat inflation (quite a lot of it) to counter the dr curve applied by leveling up. Swtor elected to not have stat inflation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DweezillKagemand Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Oh, Warriors still not have a 4sec stun!! If you're not a smasher you have a 4sec stun to counter, so... And after that 4 seconds, I'll leap to you and take 1/3 of you and 4 of your friends HP with 1 hit. Edited March 4, 2013 by DweezillKagemand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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