So...Assassin changes in 2.0

[MasterFeign]

its a bug, the ball is suppose to reset when you use phase walk and have the ball

 

Pretty much like going into stealth. Makses sense.

 

However it would be interesting if they allowed it so you could technically throw the ball to yourself.

 

I think it's unfortunate that they've decided to rework the entire trees as well, making the 2nd tier of skills in the madness spec completely useless to a tank spec.

[rmitchell]

im trying to figure out if there might be a spec that will make us either useful dps or a useful mid tank for rwz but every time i think of something, something else out classes it hard

[MasterFeign]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5892853#post5892853

 

This gives me light hope...

 

However, it would seem that the go to class come 2.0 will be operatives and snipers. Operative healers will be next to impossible to kill with alacrity, and snipers can pretty much get away from everything.

 

The 23/1/17 build isn't even all that bursty. Or nerf-worthy, so their idea of rebalancing kinda sucks...

 

As it stands, I can get to 33 0 13 but I miss out on chain shocks. I also take death field but skip on the cheaper one, instead, taking the 50% better crit hit for thrash. And assassin's shelter will be great for things like ranked. Plus you still get harnessed darkness. I hate having to put a point in force horrors though...

Edited February 22, 2013 by MasterFeign

[EatenByDistance]

thank god they're changing the tree that doesn't need changes

 

 

just gimme until saturday to make a thread...Will be very in-depth.

[Sunfire_]

just gimme until saturday to make a thread...Will be very in-depth.

 

Excellent!

Unfortunately I can't copy my main over to the PTS (char copy failed every time), so my own testing will have to wait a bit, or I have to level a new assassin. I played Deception PvE for a long time now and I'll mainly focus on that on the PTR as well. I refuse to accept that PvE damage will be as bad as some people make it out to be

[stavrakas]

Can't get on the PTS yet so can someone who has tell me a couple of things about phase walk?

 

1. Can you place the mark in stealth? (not do the actual teleport but place the mark)

 

2. Can enemy players see the mark on the ground?

[Xethis]

Can't get on the PTS yet so can someone who has tell me a couple of things about phase walk?

 

1. Can you place the mark in stealth? (not do the actual teleport but place the mark)

 

2. Can enemy players see the mark on the ground?

 

If you played a Warlock in WoW during TBC then it is the same as their teleport ability. At anytime you can activate it (stealth or not) 1.5 sec channel. And at anytime you can hit the button again and instantly go back to that spot within 60m. When you actually teleport back to it, your cooldown starts for 1.5min. Something to ponder while your dreaming of using this in huttball, does not require LOS. You can port out of a Snipers LOS, or Maras Ravage. Or when you get KB'd off of a ledge by a sniper you can bounce right back to him. I cannot wait to start messing with people in WZ's with this.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Xethis

[Xienive]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5892853#post5892853

 

This gives me light hope...

 

However, it would seem that the go to class come 2.0 will be operatives and snipers. Operative healers will be next to impossible to kill with alacrity, and snipers can pretty much get away from everything.

 

The 23/1/17 build isn't even all that bursty. Or nerf-worthy, so their idea of rebalancing kinda sucks...

 

As it stands, I can get to 33 0 13 but I miss out on chain shocks. I also take death field but skip on the cheaper one, instead, taking the 50% better crit hit for thrash. And assassin's shelter will be great for things like ranked. Plus you still get harnessed darkness. I hate having to put a point in force horrors though...

 

 

The main things I despise about our changes are duplicity not being in the first tier line and the change to Deception. If they would just revert those two things, I would be fine with everything else...I really would also like chain shock to be back where it was as well though...but it's lower of a priority than the other two for me.

[spond]

So, since I'm unable to copy my main to the PTS (Thanks Bioware) can someone let me know the following:

 

With the changes to deception-

• Is there still a problem with keeping force up over longer battles?
  
• Is there still a problem with maul not being actionable from time to time when you're behind target?
  

 

With the changes to madness-

• Is it still worth waiting to consume raze until DF is off cooldown?
  
• How bad is it to keep force up?
  

Edited February 22, 2013 by spond

[MiaRB]

changes to crit DR have been tested and confirmed by the math wiz kids on PTS. level 55 w/level 55 gear, soft cap on crit is now 20%, down from 30%. add in the not needed nerfs and center tree is pointless.

 

oh and tank spec is getting some buffs next PTS patch.

[StJon]

what im more interested and id like to see if anyone has any hard numbers is discharge

 

It has no cooldown and with VS you can use it every other hit...if it does good internal damage it might be our counter to the new shielding of energy attacks

 

it is very sad that the new cap on crit is so harsh but everything else is getting nerfed...shield absorb crit surge (possibly alacrity?)

 

Just from analysing skill tree (cant transfer my characther to PTS) it seems like we get plenty of mauls against squishies and plenty of discharges against tanks

 

I wonder tho..what is the damage on discharge per stack? does anyone know or have a rough estimate?

[MiaRB]

what im more interested and id like to see if anyone has any hard numbers is discharge

 

It has no cooldown and with VS you can use it every other hit...if it does good internal damage it might be our counter to the new shielding of energy attacks

 

it is very sad that the new cap on crit is so harsh but everything else is getting nerfed...shield absorb crit surge (possibly alacrity?)

 

Just from analysing skill tree (cant transfer my characther to PTS) it seems like we get plenty of mauls against squishies and plenty of discharges against tanks

 

I wonder tho..what is the damage on discharge per stack? does anyone know or have a rough estimate?

 

zero CD on discharge is a trick to hide the fact the discharge is nerfed( no longer an on demand skill and first use is much further back in rotation) in patch notes. you build damage for discharge with the procs, discharge with 1 proc does around 600-650 damage on dummy. is a waste to use it without 3 procs. so most of the time you are going to need to use shock twice before you can get off a full discharge. and as with shock, big damage only comes from crits. you are forced to use that gimped shock everytime its off CD if you want to get full discharges off in a reasonabe amount of time.

Edited February 22, 2013 by MiaRB

[JP_Legatus]

Deception is once again about maul spam. I'm pretty happy with these changes. The only reason to not spam mauls in the recent patches was bubblestun. Now that it's essentially gone, maul spam is viable again. And all they did was improve maul spam.

 

Granted, we won't be doing as much internal damage anymore, but that was probably intentional. And honestly, the wakajinn wasn't as good as regular deception to begin with. After your first deathfield, if the target was still alive (IE, almost every single fight) you were immediately on the next global losing dps over the length of the battle. The spec was never good.

 

All bioware is forcing you to do is learn how to play your class properly and be better at the game. You should all be thanking them.

 

If for some reason you feel you still need ridiculous amounts of internal damage, you've still got full madness.

Edited February 22, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[RankorSSGS]

Deception is once again about maul spam. I'm pretty happy with these changes. The only reason to not spam mauls in the recent patches was bubblestun. Now that it's essentially gone, maul spam is viable again. And all they did was improve maul spam.

 

Granted, we won't be doing as much internal damage anymore, but that was probably intentional. And honestly, the wakajinn wasn't as good as regular deception to begin with. After your first deathfield, if the target was still alive (IE, almost every single fight) you were immediately on the next global losing dps over the length of the battle. The spec was never good.

 

All bioware is forcing you to do is learn how to play your class properly and be better at the game. You should all be thanking them.

 

If for some reason you feel you still need ridiculous amounts of internal damage, you've still got full madness.

 

Riiiiiight

[cycao]

All bioware is forcing you to do is learn how to play your class properly and be better at the game. You should all be thanking them.

 

I am an avid madness assassin and while I like the extra damage on all dot's and the extra ticks with cd I just cannot make heads or tails of these changes yet. Without maul I lose out on any burst that I had and the removal of UK means once again I will more than likely be going shockless.

[paowee]

Did not see this thread! I should have posted this here:

 

I am mainly a Sin Tank. That will be my priority when trying out new stuff on the PTS

 

• On the last boss of Scum and Villainy you can not use Force Shroud:

 

to bypass the "cage of death" mechanic. I have not tested if Phase Walk will let you port out of it this.

 

• On the council boss fight of Scum and Villainy, Phase Walk is an invaluable tool for kiting.

 

Due to my squishy Arkanian gear, infinitely kiting Sunder is the only way for me to survive Sunder. As the fight drags on he will start rooting you. Currently VANISH, CC-BREAKER and PHASE WALK (teleport out) can break this root. If you don't break this root and you let him whack on you... = dead in 2-3 hits. His Root does not break on damage and lasts quite a while..

 

 

• Phase Walk: Assasin Shelter, please make great use of this buff. It is our version of the Sorcerer cuddle puddle.

 

• Phase Walk break's ROOTS, can be used with no line of sight (need to test more). I had Phase Walk up and FELL down the bridge towards the last boss fo S&V. I hit Phase Walk and it ported me up to safety.

Edited February 22, 2013 by paowee

[jibboo]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5892853#post5892853

 

This gives me light hope...

 

However, it would seem that the go to class come 2.0 will be operatives and snipers. Operative healers will be next to impossible to kill with alacrity, and snipers can pretty much get away from everything.

 

The 23/1/17 build isn't even all that bursty. Or nerf-worthy, so their idea of rebalancing kinda sucks...

 

As it stands, I can get to 33 0 13 but I miss out on chain shocks. I also take death field but skip on the cheaper one, instead, taking the 50% better crit hit for thrash. And assassin's shelter will be great for things like ranked. Plus you still get harnessed darkness. I hate having to put a point in force horrors though...

 

Chain shock is a must, same with the cheaper DF and they aren't worth giving up for an out-of-stealth Spike and a forward-facing maul.

 

I would think that this would be the closest we're going to get to 23/1/17: http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=022302131120023002100200000000000301000000000000000000000000000003222100012200000000000000000000&ver=20

 

With this spec you'll miss out on the out of combat spike and instant whirlwind(can't get that no matter how you spec now anyway) but you gain HD and some time off your interupt, CC breaker and sprint.

 

Not sure if it'll matter in the end though. With the 20% armor nerf to Dark Charge, and the buff to shields, full tank or DPS may be better options than hybrid in DPS gear. It's still too early to tell though I guess.

[MasterFeign]

Chain shock is a must, same with the cheaper DF and they aren't worth giving up for an out-of-stealth Spike and a forward-facing maul.

 

I would think that this would be the closest we're going to get to 23/1/17: http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=022302131120023002100200000000000301000000000000000000000000000003222100012200000000000000000000&ver=20

 

With this spec you'll miss out on the out of combat spike and instant whirlwind(can't get that no matter how you spec now anyway) but you gain HD and some time off your interupt, CC breaker and sprint.

 

Not sure if it'll matter in the end though. With the 20% armor nerf to Dark Charge, and the buff to shields, full tank or DPS may be better options than hybrid in DPS gear. It's still too early to tell though I guess.

 

I managed to get on the PTS, but WZs are pointless since everyone is using the same exploit, so tests are inconsistent. With pretty much min maxed dps gear, I was using wither on the dummy (essentially full darkness) for 2.3k, without recklessness. It varies of course though.

 

I don't use deathfield all that often in my rotation, and I have a larger force pool with the gear that I have, so I mostly use it for node control, and heals if necessary, as well when I have a recklessness proc, so it does work for my play style.. I figure I can do something like 27 0 13 as the bare minimum, which gives me 6 points to play with. I can fill the rest of chain shock, switch out the 2 from electric execution into the shield abilities, if they are indeed quite viable.

 

I'd miss spike though as I'd use that quite often. The above also pretty much takes maul right out of the rotation. But as you mentioned it's at this point, probably better just to go up one whole tree. It'll be interesting though, the changes they will be making come the 2nd patch.

 

Also, our armour rating will approximately be the same once we hit 55 and have new gear. When I got on to the PTS, the new pve gear you get for free got me to 6222 armour, I assume the higher end pvp gear will be back to around 6300 like we were used to before. We'll also have another 2-3k hp (depending on abilities etc.)

[ratiphi]

Please see this thread

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=602249

 

and sign if you agree. Thanks

[Soull]

Deception is once again about maul spam. I'm pretty happy with these changes. The only reason to not spam mauls in the recent patches was bubblestun. Now that it's essentially gone, maul spam is viable again. And all they did was improve maul spam.

 

Granted, we won't be doing as much internal damage anymore, but that was probably intentional. And honestly, the wakajinn wasn't as good as regular deception to begin with. After your first deathfield, if the target was still alive (IE, almost every single fight) you were immediately on the next global losing dps over the length of the battle. The spec was never good.

 

All bioware is forcing you to do is learn how to play your class properly and be better at the game. You should all be thanking them.

 

If for some reason you feel you still need ridiculous amounts of internal damage, you've still got full madness.

 

i am an avid deception assassin, much as cycao is an avid madness sin. and i do not like these changes. i have gotten all arkanian gear minus the relics ( i have WH) and from my dummy tests, i'm not doing the burst i am doing currently on live. sure, i can discharge more often. but the mauls aren't coming as fast as they should. even using low slash and vanish/spike to proc a duplicity, the regular duplicity procs seem few and far between.

 

and lets also mention that my crit rating is well below 30% (in all arkanian gear) so my crits are also less frequent. duplicity mauls aren't much when they non-crit for 2k. same with regular hit shocks for under 2k and discharges for 2200. also, surge is way below normal standards. i know i know, i don't have optimal gear. i'm using basically black hole pve gear unoptimized without augments. i still don't see it being better. i could have all partisan gear with all augs and still the burst will seem lower than it is now (i'm talking pvp here)

 

it seems like they made deception dps more sustained instead of burst. if i want sustained dps, i'll roll madness, as dots will keep my dps rolling while i do other abilities. if i want bust, i should be able to spec deception. sure, when the crits do come, they are huge (8k mauls, 6k discharges). but they don't come often. and the shocks crits are about what they are now on live, with lvl 55 gear and lvl 55 stats.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Soull

[Zaxem]

i am an avid deception assassin, much as cycao is an avid madness sin. and i do not like these changes. i have gotten all arkanian gear minus the relics ( i have WH) and from my dummy tests, i'm not doing the burst i am doing currently on live. sure, i can discharge more often. but the mauls aren't coming as fast as they should. even using low slash and vanish/spike to proc a duplicity, the regular duplicity procs seem few and far between.

 

and lets also mention that my crit rating is well below 30% (in all arkanian gear) so my crits are also less frequent. duplicity mauls aren't much when they non-crit for 2k. same with regular hit shocks for under 2k and discharges for 2200. also, surge is way below normal standards. i know i know, i don't have optimal gear. i'm using basically black hole pve gear unoptimized without augments. i still don't see it being better. i could have all partisan gear with all augs and still the burst will seem lower than it is now (i'm talking pvp here)

 

it seems like they made deception dps more sustained instead of burst. if i want sustained dps, i'll roll madness, as dots will keep my dps rolling while i do other abilities. if i want bust, i should be able to spec deception. sure, when the crits do come, they are huge (8k mauls, 6k discharges). but they don't come often. and the shocks crits are about what they are now on live, with lvl 55 gear and lvl 55 stats.

 

you also got to rember the low crit because alacrity is actually good now and takes more crit rating but i suspect about 30% maybe a bit more with agent buff will be the new crit magic number due to alacrity being a good stat to get now. But i hear ya i like the deception on live better but still i rather play deception over madness even with these changes.

[rotatorkuf]

What darkness spec is being used right now, for those who are putting their points into darkness?

[MasterFeign]

What darkness spec is being used right now, for those who are putting their points into darkness?

 

The 2 most common ones right now are 31/0/10 and 23/1/17/ I myself use 27/1/13. But it depends mostly on play style, gearing and if you mostly min max for power or willpower.

 

EDIT: I think with the new build, I'd go something like this: http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=022302231120023002100202110000000100000000000000000000000000000003222100010200000000000000000000&ver=20

 

However, it would seem as though using a shield, and thus going more full darkness would be a more viable dps solution, and certainly more helpful for the team as a whole. I'd love to test it out on the PTS but everyone is pretty much using the exploit.

 

I'd wait for the darkness change they mentioned, alas I don't like waiting.

Edited February 23, 2013 by MasterFeign

[rotatorkuf]

The 2 most common ones right now are 31/0/10 and 23/1/17/ I myself use 27/1/13. But it depends mostly on play style, gearing and if you mostly min max for power or willpower.

 

EDIT: I think with the new build, I'd go something like this: http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=022302231120023002100202110000000100000000000000000000000000000003222100010200000000000000000000&ver=20

 

However, it would seem as though using a shield, and thus going more full darkness would be a more viable dps solution, and certainly more helpful for the team as a whole. I'd love to test it out on the PTS but everyone is pretty much using the exploit.

 

I'd wait for the darkness change they mentioned, alas I don't like waiting.

 

I was curious to see some of the ideas for the new darkness builds using wither or not. It's impossible to test any builds in the warzones.

[Philelectric]

I'd like to have your opinion about this build http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000322230121112032001022000010000003120022012200000000000000000000&ver=20

 

EDIT: the link is not working for some reason, im working on it

 

EDIT 2: I cant fix the link so here is the idea, get Impose Weakness in deception, get death field, fanaticism and claw of decay in madness

 

EDIT 3: link is fixed.

0/31/15 lighning charge

 

The damage would come from a dot, maul and death field.

I dont know if it will work but I might try it

 

The opener: Spike,maul,death field,discharge(dot)

 

Getting the survivor 2 pieces bonus migh be interesting for this build because it will allow you to restealth spike maul faster and we won really miss the 3rd stack or recklessness because this build is not heavily dependant on discharge+shock crits. Howerver spike is not usable out of stealth

 

Filling with trash and saber strike is not as bad as it looks because the dot will add a decent amount of damage. and if you fight a retard you could fill with force lighning

Edited February 25, 2013 by Philelectric