So...Assassin changes in 2.0

[EatenByDistance]

At first I thought the changes were bad, but they may be good; Discharge no longer has a CD. For maximum damage, I think it would be best to use it anytime you have 1 Static charge, since they will be relatively rare. Since shock's cd is 6 seconds, You can get in a discharge (from the 100% proc off static charges) every six seconds right after shock, which is good.

 

I'd take being to use discharge twice the normal rate and having it do normal damage than double the new rate and doing 1.3 times normal damage any day. The VS shock dmg nerf is disgusting, hopefully the discharge change will make up for it.

 

with my BiS 63 gear from live at level 55 1 stack of discharge hits for around 630. Aka half the damage of Saber Strike. 2 stacks is less damage than Shock or Thrash. Therefore it is useless without 3 stacks.

 

And to anyone who thinks VS is fine...VS shock damage nerf is not compensated by the guranteed Surging Charge proc as if it crits/chain shocks it still does less damage. (Chain Shock doesn't proc a second Static Charge btw)

Edited February 21, 2013 by EatenByDistance

[NamikazeNaruto]

My new tank specs will probably be 27/17/2 and 36/3/7 if all the skills are like this when the level cap is raised officially. These are all ideas for kinetic hybrid specs if the talents stay as they are up until expansion release. These specs are by no means set in stone and as I said, they are merely ideas. There are 6 specs here.

 

27/17/2 http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-shadow/234/?build=020332001121023002120200000000000322230001112000000000000000000000200000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

 

-You have Harnessed shadows for a self-heal.

-You gain Kinetic Bulwark, which will increase your shield absorption by 1% for every stack consumed, lasts 20 seconds or until you reapply Kinetic Ward.

-Your projects will deal more damage thanks to Bombardment and Upheaval.

-You lose Infiltration Tactics

-You lose Martial Prowess

 

 

Summary

 

This spec is basically an upgraded version of 22/17/2. Your dps rotation in this spec will now rely more on projects rather than shadow strikes. However, this spec was always pure tank and not dps, so losing infil tactics is not a big deal. The biggest loss probably comes from not having Martial Prowess, which would normally allow you to use Spinning Kick out of stealth. However, to make up for this, you get Harnessed Shadows, so you have the self-heal along with all the former survivability tools of 22/17/2. You get Kinetic Bulwark as well.

 

 

36/3/7 http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-shadow/234/?build=022332001121023002120203100200100300000000000000000000000000000003220000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

 

-You gain Kinetic Bulwark, which will increase your shield absorption by 1% for every stack consumed, lasts 20 seconds or until you reapply Kinetic Ward.

-You gain Shadow's Shelter, which increases your healing received by 2%. Also, when you activate phase walk within 5 meters of healers, it increases their healing done by 5% for the duration.

 

 

Summary

 

The rotation is pretty much the same as 31/0/10. Working to get 3 stacks of harnessed shadows to use TK throw for a self-heal. Using Slow Time every time it is up. Only difference will be the addition of phase walk, you will want to try to phase walk next to a healer if possible so they can benefit form Shadow's Shelter.

 

 

27/3/16 http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-shadow/234/?build=022332001121023002100200000000000300000000000000000000000000000003222100012210000000000000000000&ver=20

or

27/5/14 http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-shadow/234/?build=022332001121023002100200000000000302000000000000000000000000000003222100012100000000000000000000&ver=20

 

 

-You gain 1 point in Containment. You can put the 1 point in Celerity if you feel it will be more useful than Containment. Or you can take one point out of Adjudication and 1 point out of Containment and put 2 in Celerity for 27/5/14, this would probably be the best option if you're node guarding.

-Force Stun cooldown will be reduced by 10 seconds with Pinning Resolve. I mainly did this to have enough in talents to move up to the next tier. In combat technique we don't really have any periodic damaging abilities, so the other 3 talents on this tier are even more useless.

 

 

Summary

 

Rotation is the same. Work up to 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows and use TK throw at 3 stacks. Not much has changed with this spec from 27/0/14, honestly.

 

 

24/5/17 http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-shadow/234/?build=022332001120023002100000000000000302000000000000000000000000000003222100012220000000000000000000&ver=20

 

 

-You gain celerity, now your CC breaker will be up every 1 minute 30 seconds instead of every 2 minutes.

-You lose 1 point in infil tactics.

 

 

Summary

 

Not much has changed with this from 23/1/17. The rotation is almost the same except you won't be using shadow strikes because you won't have any infil tactics procs. In exchange for losing that damage from infil tactics, you gain a little bit of utility via having Celerity AND Containment. For those who want to keep infil tactics while still remaining a kinetic hybrid, I propose the spec below.

 

 

23/18/5 http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-shadow/234/?build=022332001120013002100000000000000322230001110030000000000000000003020000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

 

-The main point of this spec is to keep Infiltration Tactics, even though it was moved up many talent tiers.

-Shadow's Mark will increase your Shadow Strike damage even more.

 

 

Summary

 

The priority for this would be Shadow Strike above all else if you have the Infiltration Tactics proc. If not, project is next on the priority if you have a Particle Acceleration proc. If you have neither of these procs, use Double Strike until you can get one of these procs. Note that it might be better to put even 2 more points into Circling Shadows for 15% increased critical damage on Shadow Strike. However, to do that I would probably take 2 points out of Psychokinesis, and I do not know if force management would still be ok after taking points out of that.

 

 

33/8/5 http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-shadow/234/?build=022332001121023002100203120000000302030000000000000000000000000003020000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

-You have a 70% chance to get a Shadow Wrap proc off of Spinning Strike or Double Strike, allowing Shadow Strike to be used from the front of an enemy and costs 50% less force. This proc can only come up once every 10 seconds.

-Shadow's Mark increases your Shadow Strike damage by 6%

 

 

This may end up being a very powerful 1v1 spec. I would probably use this to take enemy nodes. There is, however, one huge downside to this. You do not get Force in Balance. This move is essential to node guarding, and just as essential in stopping an enemy from getting their node. Of course for the rotation you'd use Shadow Wrap when that proc appears. Other than that, you'd be using TK Throw if you have 2-3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows, Project if you have the Particle Acceleration Proc, and Double Strike when you have no procs of anything.

 

 

Conclusion

 

Note I'm not saying that I know for sure these will be the best specs. I am merely throwing ideas out there. If anyone has suggestions on my specs let me know.

 

P.S. Should I be naming specs after myself? o.O

Edited February 22, 2013 by NamikazeNaruto

[Philelectric]

I will use this build http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-shadow/234/?build=022332001120013002100000000000000322230001110030000000000000000003020000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

[Xienive]

So pretty much every build I had fun with is now not really going to be viable. Just awesome.

 

Well, after playing this class from launch it might be time to retire...

[MasterFeign]

We'll have to see how viable having a shield is in 2.0 as well. I've min maxed all my gear, including my shield so I loose something like 100 bonus damage (currently), but gain at least a good chance to mitigate damage as it is now. With the update, I wonder if it will be even more viable to use a shield.

 

36/3/7 does look quite nice. I will miss being able to use 27/1/13, alas I want to have utlity for my team, and as long as I can have similar min maxed gear, I'll be happy. However if I have to trade in my EWH gear, I'll be kind of screwed as I don't have armourings for the particular piece, as I've been using a pve shell with bracer armourings. 36/3/7 also looks more like a raid aid too, as it may not be as viable in a pug group.

 

What's interchangable in darkness is the electric execution with the shielding abilities. Though we'll test this soon enough to see if in fact it is viable.

 

Now I wish wither had a 30 metre range :/

[CelestialsDragon]

Phase Walk usage out of stealth is going to be pretty nifty

 

Probably going to be using this build.

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/

Edited February 22, 2013 by CelestialsDragon

[cycao]

Phase Walk usage out of stealth is going to be pretty nifty

 

Probably going to be using this build.

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/

 

Nothing in that link.

[RankorSSGS]

Ok, so I finally got on the PTS, and played around a while.

 

Full Arkanian DPS gear, un min/maxed, with my old power WH relics. Beating on the level 50 warzone dummy on the fleet for consistency.

 

Melee primary damage 1219 - 1500

Melee bonus damage 657.1

Force bonus damage 1057.1

71.06% Surge

23.84% crit

 

Poorly optimized gear out of the box once again

 

Full infiltration 5/36/5

1 stack Discharge noncrits for 600-650, and crits for about 1.4k

2 stacks non crits for 1.9-2.1k and crits for about 4 - 4.4k

3 stacks non crits for about 2.6k, and crits ranged from 5.6 - 6k

New Shock non crits for about 2k, and crits for 4.6

Maul (w/ Duplicity proc) non crits for 3.7 - 4k, and crit for 7.7 - 8k

 

Lower half Madness builds xx/xx/16

Deathfield noncrits for roughly 2.5k, and crits for around 4.3k

 

Full Madness 5/4/37

Deathfield noncrits for 2.5k, and crits for about 5.1k

 

In all specs, the first big hit of Crushing Darkness noncrits for around 1.4k, and crits for about 2.4k

 

Now of course these numbers will mean absolutely nothing in terms of how hard we actually will hit, as I was in garbage gear beating on a dummy. But I think they can give us an idea of how hard abilities are hitting compared to each other, mainly the new Surging Discharge, which at 3 stacks, remains our second hardest hitting ability after Maul. But it does take a very long time to get 3 stacks, and hybrids not picking up VS, such as 0/31/15 will probably never see 3 stacks in small scale fights.

 

Take what you will from this.

[CelestialsDragon]

Nothing in that link.

 

Sorry about that, here you go.

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=002200000000000000000000000000000320230021110020000000000000000003022302012220010122000000000000&ver=20

[malicnchains]

I'm not sure if this was talked about but I see this new assassin ability getting abused in huttball.Stealth to the endzone drop your port aoe thing and once you get the ball its gg!

[RankorSSGS]

These are the builds that I believe will likely be the best, with the best use of points IMO

 

Full Deception 5/36/5

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=002300000000000000000000000000000322230021102032021022000212001003020000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

Full Madness 5/4/37 (w/o UK there is no longer a point to Shock, so no Chain Shock in this spec)

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=002300000000000000000000000000000022000000000000000000000000000003020322012220210122032002020100&ver=20

 

Likely the new Wakajinn 0/31/15 (Surging Charge)

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000322230021102032021022000010000003222100012200000000000000000000&ver=20

 

"DoTajinn" 3/27/16 (Lightning Charge)

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=000300000000000000000000000000000322230021112032001002000000000003020302012200010000000000000000&ver=20

 

Mad Maul 2.0 0/18/28 (Lightning Charge)

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000322220021100030000000000000000003020302012220210122030000000000&ver=20

 

And this is a build I've been toying with forever but never got to work, but with 5 more talent points to help force management, it now might work. Designed around auto-critting shocks with Crackling Blasts. Throwing on a shield should make you a decent tank as well. Note I have not tried it at all yet, so no guarantees that its actually good. 17/27/2

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=022312001121002000000000000000000322230021112032001002000000000000020000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

Dibs on naming it if it turns out decent

Edited February 22, 2013 by RankorSSGS

[cycao]

Yeah I had some similar builds rankor all of which revolve around madness but for my full madness I will be taking lambaste which actually gives lacerate a worth wile ability outside of spamming it to stop a bomb being defused in vs.

[RankorSSGS]

Yeah I had some similar builds rankor all of which revolve around madness but for my full madness I will be taking lambaste which actually gives lacerate a worth wile ability outside of spamming it to stop a bomb being defused in vs.

 

The only thing Lambaste improves is now you do a few hundred energy damage with Lacerate, which IMO is nothing, due to how expensive Lacerate is. If it caused Lacerate to proc a lightning charge Discharge on every target it hit, that would be awesome. But sadly Lightning Charge's effect and its Discharge's effect are two separate things.

[EatenByDistance]

lacerate is tied with power shot for worst ability in the game

 

the fact that some of our highest tier abilities give it useless buffs while marauders get free executes on anyone and gore resets is lol

[RankorSSGS]

lacerate is tied with power shot for worst ability in the game

 

the fact that some of our highest tier abilities give it useless buffs while marauders get free executes on anyone and gore resets is lol

 

Sadly I have to agree, might be time to gear up the mara. On another note, any comments on the specs or the number tests I posted waka?

[JP_Legatus]

Wakajinn will not work in the new patch. I'm sorry wakajinn fans, you can't discharge reliably fast enough without taking VS.

In the past, people have argued that wakajinn losing extended dps in exchange for the burst provided by a third instantly usable force ability was more than a good trade off, which I can understand.

 

However, now that discharge basically REQUIRES three full stacks before it's even worth using, you simply can't justify losing the total dps for extra burst because you won't have any extra burst. Opening with discharge is a thing of the past.

 

I do have some dps parsing for you:

Deception: 2300+

Madness: 2200+

Darkness: 1500+

 

This was with no relics and a few mistakes here and there, so the numbers can be improved a bit. Deception definitely has the highest total damage output atm though. Darkness will improve greatly when it has the force to use it's moves. (Bioware has posted saying they're going to fix the force management in darkness)

Edited February 22, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[EatenByDistance]

Sadly I have to agree, might be time to gear up the mara. On another note, any comments on the specs or the number tests I posted waka?

 

I've already tried all of them and have commented on them in this thread or my guide. You can find the more thorough responses by going down a page or two or checking recent posts in my guide.

 

a very tl;dr: they all suck. Only full Darkness is in a really "good" spot for DPS. That's because it is basically unchanged (Overcharge Saber DR is really good). I still wouldn't use it for DPSing in rateds by a long shot though.

 

Full Deception is your best bet for non-Darkness DPS specs. That said, it's still pretty awful, just goes to show how bad your listed hybrids are. No fault of your own per say, a fault of the horribly designed tree.

 

 

 

I will be making a big post in the PTS subforum this weekend. I don't have the time to write a ton until then and I still wanna keep trying these other specs just to make sure I'm not missing something.

[JP_Legatus]

These are the builds that I believe will likely be the best, with the best use of points IMO

 

Full Deception 5/36/5

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=002300000000000000000000000000000322230021102032021022000212001003020000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

Full Madness 5/4/37 (w/o UK there is no longer a point to Shock, so no Chain Shock in this spec)

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=002300000000000000000000000000000022000000000000000000000000000003020322012220210122032002020100&ver=20

 

Likely the new Wakajinn 0/31/15 (Surging Charge)

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000322230021102032021022000010000003222100012200000000000000000000&ver=20

 

"DoTajinn" 3/27/16 (Lightning Charge)

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=000300000000000000000000000000000322230021112032001002000000000003020302012200010000000000000000&ver=20

 

Mad Maul 2.0 0/18/28 (Lightning Charge)

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000322220021100030000000000000000003020302012220210122030000000000&ver=20

 

And this is a build I've been toying with forever but never got to work, but with 5 more talent points to help force management, it now might work. Designed around auto-critting shocks with Crackling Blasts. Throwing on a shield should make you a decent tank as well. Note I have not tried it at all yet, so no guarantees that its actually good. 17/27/2

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=022312001121002000000000000000000322230021112032001002000000000000020000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

Dibs on naming it if it turns out decent

 

I've actually messed around with that exact spec you mentioned at the end, where you basically try to crit shocks over and over. It's not entirely bad, I parsed about 2200 on this during the dark embrace portion. I think it will fall because of lack of utility/extended dps and the fact that it doesn't even burst higher than other specs.

 

What I find particularly intriguing is your "dotajin" spec. Previously, this spec kinda sucked in my trials but with the massive sweeping buffs to discharge, this may be OP now. I'm going to parse one and put up the results.

 

Also I like your new mad maul idea, but I'm sad we couldn't also get fade.

Edited February 22, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[JP_Legatus]

Finished the "dotajinn" at 2200 dps roughly. It's not at all bad, and that was on a single target dummy. I'd imagine spreading the dots around would be a pretty significant boost to its DPS.

So, it's now pretty much guaranteed that if you want your max dps in a game, you're using dotajinn and putting a dot on all 8 enemies.

[cycao]

The only thing Lambaste improves is now you do a few hundred energy damage with Lacerate, which IMO is nothing, due to how expensive Lacerate is. If it caused Lacerate to proc a lightning charge Discharge on every target it hit, that would be awesome. But sadly Lightning Charge's effect and its Discharge's effect are two separate things.

 

I'm not going to be using the lacerate for the damage that's still laughable and is has a terribly high force regen. Ill use mainly as a way to spread dot's to keep stealth in combat since it auto triggers lightning charges affect which is used in conjunction via lightning burns, at least that's how im reading it. All of this is theory crafting as my main is still having technical difficulties getting on the pts.

[rmitchell]

Well to be fair they did nerf the crap out of the hybrid immortal vengeance spec. Unstoppable only works in Shien now.

 

I still think Deception sins will have a place in ranked because our skills will help burst more than other classes. Just kind of going to be boring since all our dmg is gonna be around mauling and discharge. I think with alacrity we'll be able to keep pretty decent dps. I think on whole most of the fights are gonna be a lot longer since you'll notice most of the low endurance high power enchantments are gone from the new sets.

 

You'll still see a few ppl run around in hybrid darkness/madness, but meh the top tier talents in darkness are pretty useful now.

 

the only burst deception has now is maul, discharge does **** for damage now.

[Calvin_Mago]

@Plaje Just curious, what was your biggest shock damage on your crackling energize parse?

[Xienive]

I still don't understand why they would re-work Decpetion. It just got changed to where it was actually useful then they do this? Then they kill our most useful hybrid builds which is what made the class so fun and unique from the others?

 

Our biggest hitter for burst damage was duplicity which you can now not get unless you go high into deception, our instant whirlwhind was taken away, 20% armor was taken away on the tank tree after our armor rating had already been nerfed before...not to mention they gave snipers some stealth detection boosts and a nice big slow linked after a root, because we wouldn't want anybody being able to attack them from melee range for more than a few seconds at a time...

[ZenomX]

I want to talk about Phase Walk. The way I read it is basically like the Shadow Step Rogue ability from WoW, but you have to aim it. Not sure I like this as only being able to open on people. Hopefully there are new abilities in our talent trees that have something to do with this. The way it sounds is its only useable from stealth so you can't use it as a kite breaker. Maybe you can Vanish then use it for some wicked escape potential. Or closing extreme gaps to interrupt a cap. Like 60m away you can Sprint, Phase Walk, then Deathfield that last 30m. lol that will be fun. IDK, we will see.

 

From the description its more like the warlock teleport. It goes down where your standing.

[rmitchell]

I'm not sure if this was talked about but I see this new assassin ability getting abused in huttball.Stealth to the endzone drop your port aoe thing and once you get the ball its gg!

 

its a bug, the ball is suppose to reset when you use phase walk and have the ball