Sniper 2.0 PTS!

[BaineOs]

Problem is, we dont know what was their aim in the first place. What did they want to achieve by overhauling what seemed to be a complete spec.

Easy, they listened to the mm snipers that qq about not being able to move (in addition to giving all snipers that roll) and whilst they were at it decided to change follow through....and alacrity (although that's not sniper specific).

Edited February 25, 2013 by BaineOs

[islander]

MM needs nerfs, won't change my opinion on that dude.

 

far too early to suggest this, though. You can suggest it 'appears' to need nerfing, but that's about it.

Virtually no one knows how to play their characters in 2.0, especially with bolster being broken.

Edited February 25, 2013 by islander

[Krayshawn]

Easy, they listened to the mm snipers that qq about not being able to move (in addition to giving all snipers that roll) and whilst they were at it decided to change follow through....and alacrity (although that's not sniper specific).

 

Look at it from the ranked aspect, compared to Leth, MM did not provide much of a belonging to a ranked team compared to what other classes have. I personally always thought MM could be viable, but nearly everyone disagreed.

 

Look at it now. It has way more viability then it could have dreamed for before. More mobility to hunt down thos LoSing it, The ability to be more than just an anchor in Huttball (Roll over fire pit). As well as a 15 second trauma debuff with a better root now.

 

Every class got its changes. If you think MM is op you may as well say Mercs are OP now too with their hydraulic overrides, reduced knock back cool down, 3 instant casts, and electro net.

[Tamanous]

Let's stop whining that mobility improvements to MM/SS is due to pvp. Mobility is one the major reasons for not using that spec in pve as well when it comes to specific boss fights. There were many serious issues related to mobility and I welcome many of the changes. Having to sit still the entire duration of the aoe shield was near game breaking. Edited February 25, 2013 by Tamanous

[BubbleDncr]

I've been playing Engineering since 1.2 and been loving it. The changes in patch 2.0 have me nervous, though I haven't had an opportunity to test them.

 

At the very least, I'll be switching back to MM to make my way up to 55 - the MM changes intrigue me, seems like it could be pretty fun in PVP - but I also just can't imagine playing 5 levels without Plasma Probe.

[paowee]

Also for anyone playing Sniper in the PTS, don't forget to /bug to report the graphic glitch when Engineers use their SoS. The lightning attack should shoot from the barrel not from our boot Edited February 25, 2013 by paowee

[paowee]

Have to say after trying out all 3 builds and several hybrids I do get the feeling that MM is OP. Not decided about lethality yet it feels about right. Engineering does feel it lacks something compared to the others.

 

It's not just the changes to follow through but the addition of seek cover, debilitating shots the whole lot together with the alcarity changes and sniper volley on top (few more tree changes I'm not going to mention). For those mm loving snipers out there I'm sorry.....but the way it is on the pts now MM needs to be nerfed nerfs.

 

Not that into PVP but I read that Rage spec can use Obliterate while rooted. How long is the range of 2.0 Obliterate? 10m? Also don't forget all Bounty Hunters have Hydraulic Overrides now too (confirm?).

 

Assassins had their PVP Hybrid builds nerfed and right now are still trying to make DPSing in WZs work.

Edited February 25, 2013 by paowee

[CJNJ]

I know the no CD on IP is an awesome buff and wonderful for target swapping, but does anyone else kinda miss the 18 sec CD on it?

[BaineOs]

I know the no CD on IP is an awesome buff and wonderful for target swapping, but does anyone else kinda miss the 18 sec CD on it?

Apologies dude but no CD on IP is hardly what I'd call an awsome buff. It's never bothered me having an 18sec cooldown, all in all I found that an odd change.

[Synavix]

Apologies dude but no CD on IP is hardly what I'd call an awsome buff. It's never bothered me having an 18sec cooldown, all in all I found that an odd change.

 

It's a bit of a weird one, but I can see where the idea came from. Allowing you to focus one person in a WZ and still be able to have a strong swap to a new target when necessary or called for, regardless of whether your previous target was just getting too many heals, escaped or whatever. Still doesn't really seem like enough....it sounds a lot better in theory, and target swapping was never really as big of an issue with Engineering as it was with Lethality.

 

What I feel would have worked better is something similar to the old WoW Warlock talent that let you swap DoTs to a new target (I believe...haven't played it in forever). Since EMP Discharge is considered to be relatively useless right now, remove its Adrenaline Probe reset and give it a reset on Explosive Probe (which gives you a damage boost + energy regen). Also, instead of simply exploding the current IP, it should also apply itself instantly to your new target (possibly along with some sort of damage buff or other utility, possibly a debuff to the new/old target). Not a big change, but saves you a GCD with some added utility or a nice damage boost. Only problem I'd see with this is that something might need to be reworked to prevent Lethality/Eng hybrids from taking EMP Discharge for too large of a buff in PvE (once stat inflation on gear no longer requires the Accuracy talent in the MM tree).

[paowee]

Did anyone also notice that putting your DoTs up (hybrid build) and the GCD "blink" or shadow does not push through? however if you use an ability like AP / TA / shield probe the GCD "blink" or shadow activates. I found this quite hard to get used to for a while.

[DarkSaberMaster]

I've played some more with my Sniper on PTS. I really am loving the new MM and Lethality. My only gripe is that us Engineers lost our Augmented Shields. That really is the only change that really burns my britches. I'm glad that Lethality was given it to help with survivability. But we should have been able to keep it also.

 

But oh well. It is what it is. I'll still make due without it. But it will be hard to stay Engineering with how sexy MM and Lethality look now. I especially love the Takedown on demand from Cull.

[paowee]

Marks might have a hybrid build.. but I don't have the "math" to be able to figure out if this is a DPS increase over the Full Marks spec.

 

You lose Sniper Volley and the filler talents that comes along with it. You lose either the 9% main stat talent (which in my gear translates to around 209 Cunning) or the extra 10 energy talent but you get a buffed Corrosive Dart and (and this is what interested me)

 

Cut Down

Passive

0/2

Increases the damage dealt by Snipe, Series of Shots and Cull by 3 / 6 %

 

Is losing Sniper Volley and either Energy Tanks or Gearhead worth it to gain Cut Down?

[NoTomorrow]

There is one bad thing about new MM though. You can no longer be in a semi-mobile state with insta-snipes and FT every 6s. FT normal CD is 9s now. And to reset the CD of FT you need 2 snipes, basically you cannot Snipe-FT, move 6 seconds, snipe FT, move another 6 seconds.

 

It's not so bad, but this mechanic is gone.

[NotRonin]

It will take a bit of time before the best build will become obvious. I have tested out MM with a full alacrity/power build, and it is awesome during sniper's volley. However your damage sucks when it's not up, so it's more for PvP than PvE.

 

The 13.5s Ambush cooldown and 12s SoS cooldown makes the rotation very ugly.

 

Assuming no alacrity, your rotation is

 

SoS (2) -> FT (1.5) - Ambush (1.5) -> FT (1.5) -> Snipe(1.5) -> Snipe(1.5) -> FT(1.5). That is 11 seconds. So what you want is enough alacrity to reduce that 11s to 10.5s, then you use a rifle shot for energy regen. (As you gain 66 energy in 11 seconds, you spent 75, so you need to do a rifle shot to be energy netural). It will screws up Ambush though, and subsequently the Sniper x 2, leaving to all kind of issues.

 

A better option is to sacrifice some SoS up time and start with Ambush

 

Ambush -> FT -> Sos -> FT -> Snipe x2 -> FT -> X -> X . This is 14 seconds. You want enough alacrity to get it to 13.5 seconds, then your rotation becomes extremely simple, smooth, and energy neutral. You can go all out to get 13% alacrity so you can fit another filler' into the rotation, but it's not worth the lost in accuracy and surge.

[Rigsta]

Is losing Sniper Volley and either Energy Tanks or Gearhead worth it to gain Cut Down?

In the current 2.0 PTS build, Energy Tanks is not needed at all for MM and Leth. Testing energy consumption in a lag-free environment was the reason I went through Dromund Kaas and abused the level booster for 500K worth of items to sell

 

Engi still benefits from it, as seen in

. I think EP is best used in the 50-70 energy range to avoid capping out. You also need to consider whether other people are going to pop the cluster bombs or if you'll need to do it yourself; as ever, EP > SoS is the ideal combo.

 

Engi's energy management is still easier than live thanks to the new skills, but if you go guns-blazing like I did there you still drain it below the 60% mark without too much effort, and thus benefit from the effectively once-per-minute AP.

 

As I've stated before, I don't get the lack of a +crit chance skill compared to the other 2 trees. I couldn't say what the % bonus should be but I think it'd fit if it applied to EP, cluster bombs and AEs. It should replace EMP recycler for sure, I can't think of anywhere else on the tree it would actually fit without seriously messing up the tree (high) or making it too accessible to hybrid builds (low).

 

I still don't understand why we lost augmented shields, was it that powerful on engi? Something to make up for the survivability loss would be nice, I'm thinking -60s instead of -30s on deployed shields.

 

I need to stop posting when I'm half-asleep.

[Lightning_]

I'm wondering if a hybrid will make sense in PvP now? The 5-18-23, which is discussed in the other thread, will be of course very vulnerable to cleanses, as it is now on live.

 

But consider something like http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sniper/235/?build=022000000000000000000000000000000223300022101000000000000000000002302021012220212120001000000000&ver=20

 

Compared to full Letality we lose Weakening Blast and Takedown proc, but we still have Lingering Toxins, which is the main point of full Lethality. Devouring Microbes is not really important in PvP because your targets don't spend a lot of time being at <30%. Corrosive Mine is kinda pointless for competitive PvP. In return we get some nice abilities from Engineering tree and a bit more points to grab from MM lower tier.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Lightning_

[NoTomorrow]

I'm wondering if a hybrid will make sense in PvP now? The 5-18-23, which is discussed in the other thread, will be of course very vulnerable to cleanses, as it is now on live.

 

But consider something like http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sniper/235/?build=022000000000000000000000000000000223300022101000000000000000000002302021012220212120001000000000&ver=20

 

Compared to full Letality we lose Weakening Blast and Takedown proc, but we still have Lingering Toxins, which is the main point of full Lethality. Devouring Microbes is not really important in PvP because your targets don't spend a lot of time being at <30%. Corrosive Mine is kinda pointless for competitive PvP. In return we get some nice abilities from Engineering tree and a bit more points to grab from MM lower tier.

 

You are trading a very powerful takedown proc available after every cull for an explosive probe every 30 seconds. I'd rather have the takedown, especially since the EP is now a shieldable attack.

Edited February 26, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[NotRonin]

Went and did some testing on the PTS dummy.

 

1st, the MM spec using the 13.5s Ambush rotation

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/145234/3/0/Overview

 

Not really optimized either. Around 2400 dps if you ignore the last few seconds when I'm waiting to exit combat. I'm sure that as I fiddle around with my gear and perfect the rotation, it'll get even better.

 

And for my 'bread and butter' 5/18/23 Leth/Eng build

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/145234/5/0/Overview

 

Made a few mistake in the rotation in regard to energy, but still come out over 2500 dps most of the time.

 

The two specs are now really close to each another. On live, my MM parses only 1800, while my Leth/Eng parses 2100. They are now within 5% of each another.

[chuixupu]

Since I was finally able to copy my characters over, here are a few quick impressions:

 

- Yay, we have different icons for weak poisons. Very nice. In addition to the debuff scaling, this will make life easier.

I would still like an option to disable/change debuffs from other players.

Adding debuffs to the target's name plates would also be a nice touch for the future.

 

- I really like the visual effect for Lethal Takedown. We neeed more very apparent procs for stuff like that.

 

- I like the changes to Ballistic Shield. Not being able to move after activating it was always a pain (especially in fights where I would suddenly get a damage circle put under me immediately after)

 

That's all for the moment until I get some real combat experience. Energy management feels a lot smoother than it used to, maybe because of alacrity, but that might not hold true dealing with multiple targets.

[paowee]

Updated the OP. Check the first page for NEW!!

[DarkSaberMaster]

Updated the OP. Check the first page for NEW!!

 

Thanks for compiling everything together. It really is appreciated

[paowee]

Thanks for compiling everything together. It really is appreciated

 

Your welcome .

 

Also for those people who are interested in parsing.. some nice to know info from Khevar. OP updated as well. Check the first page for NEW!!

According to the "Good DPS" thread, the main difference with the fleet dummy is that it has a 10% resist, mitigated by 110% tech accuracy.

 

Theoretically, if your accuracy is 100/110 the two dummies would parse the same (if there were no lag on the fleet).

 

Quite a lot to sift through but this is the "Good DPS" thread over at the PTS forum http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=602752

Edited February 27, 2013 by paowee

[paowee]

As Hybrid.. still nowhere near as near as the Maras and PTs claiming 2700 easily, and 3000 DPS at the most...

 

2686 on L55 ship dummy http://www.torparse.com/a/147783/time/1362123945/1362124245/0/Overview

2684 http://www.torparse.com/a/147793/time/1362124746/1362125046/0/Overview

 

edit: 2777 http://www.torparse.com/a/147843/time/1362041782/1362042082/0/Overview , hard work...

Edited February 28, 2013 by paowee

[NoTomorrow]

So I've been interested in the PTS stats and have used a program that my guild member and I have developed in order to determine the optimal critical rating vs. power point.

 

I specced my Gunslinger to Sharpshooter in order to get the extra 30% surge on my trickshot (follow through). I put myself to 99.97% accuracy with companion and the +3% accuracy in the skill tree. I then stacked as much surge as possible in order to try and give crit as much weight as possible.

 

I found that 1441 power and 0 critical rating was giving the highest yield: 3277.85 average damage.

 

I also tried pulling out all my cunning augments and throwing power ones in there and this is the average damage I got was this: 3285.26.

Seems that power is even better for damage now than mainstat.

 

check this thread: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-953-page-26.html