Sniper 2.0 PTS!

[paowee]

Played around for awhile with the 3 PVE DPS specs (the playstyle is very different now and took me some time to get used to >_<)

 

Wearing the same gear:

 

Stats------Rating-----

Power---- 883--------

Acc------- 360--------

Crit ------- 436--------

Surge ---- 216 -------

Alacrity --- 144-------

 

 

• As Marks with +3% Acc talent this puts me at 99% Ranged Acc.
  
• As Lethality with +3% Acc talent this puts me at 99% Ranged Acc.
  
• As Lethality/Engi without the +3% Acc talent this puts me at 96% Ranged Acc.
  
• With Deadly Directive and 144 Alacrity Rating I have 4.06% bonus to Activation Speed / Energy Regen / etc.
  
• All the fights/logs began with Orbital + Ambush. The fights are over 5 minutes. I took the first 300 seconds of the fight.
  
• Had an Exotech Stim and Companion/Legacy buffs.
  

 

Marks

~2450 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/139626/time/1361482019/1361482319/0/Damage+Dealt

 

Marks with lucky crits has the potential to do amazing burst. I checked the graph and saw those two times where the DPS ramped up to at least 4k in 10-20 seconds. You will be sitting in cover and casting and channelling abilities for 1.4-2 seconds and hitting FT after every SoS, 2 Snipes, Ambush, Takedown. A lot of button-mashing if you are into that

 

 

Lethality

~2500 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/139641/time/1361482614/1361482915/0/Overview

 

My rotation is a bit iffy.. Will probaby need some getting used to, but I kept Cull on cooldown as well as SoS (ofc along with the TD procs). I found that I could only do mostly EP, Snipe for fillers, with Ambush used rarely otherwise I will end up delaying the 2nd Cull. With the addition of 2 Takedowns, there's just not enough time to squeeze in those fillers I'm used to in LIVE.

 

 

Lethality/Engi

~2600 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/139641/time/1361483449/1361483750/0/Damage+Dealt

 

Probably due to the lucky crits at the beginning of the fight...

 

I'm curious to see how much disparity other players are having with the 3 specs. From what I can tell on the PTS, the Hybrid though just became much more viable and way more easier to use largely in part to the increased energy regen mechanic. I was having trouble at times dumping my energy and would be energy capped while sticking to the rotations I know in LIVE.

Edited February 22, 2013 by paowee

[Cyanothis]

spent a bit of time on the ops dummy in the new 62 gear. I went 36/7/3 and was basically playing around with new skills etc

 

I averaged 2000 dps (in game with mox running) on the dummy (yeah people will do a lot better) but what I found was that it was very very difficult for me to get below the fast energy regen rate, there is a lot of energy regen in the build and the alacrity changes really helped out.

 

Crit rating and surge take a real beating in this gear though and oddly accuracy needs a bit of work getting to the +10% mark but its not too terrible.

 

So then for a giggle I basically replaced all the enhancements with power and alacrity, giving me alacrity of 432 (7.76%) including taking the 2% bonus from the DF tree.

The difference was really surprising, it was practically impossible for me to run down the energy, hitting Burst Volly for the 10% extra alacrity pushed energy regen up to 8.2/second and freighter flyby down to 1.7 seconds activation, aimed shot was 1.3 second activation.. Stranger still was the increase in DPS even with crit down to 28% and surge to 51% my DPS went up to 2100.

 

I'll run more, proper, tests and see but initial thought suggest alacrity may well be a really useful skill for slingers.

 

logs if you're interested....I admit to not being the best and people will be much better but its a start and here are some numbers for people to look at.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/553db571-7887-4766-a488-b2ad409b86ca/player/1#d=0,f=16,t=1,b=1

 

fight 16 was the 7.7% alacrity and a "clean" run where i hit most cooldowns in game Mox was reporting this as 2108 but changed when i loaded to Mr Robot.

 

Have a look, dont laugh too hard i was trying to muck around with alacrity and it surprised me.

[DoomBlackDragon]

What snipers got screwwed. This is the worse patch ever. A usless ability and talent. RotHC sucks.

[Svii]

Thanks for the detailed information, this truly looks awesome!

 

Checked out Noshadows vid and the speed of MM makes me giddy ^^

[paowee]

Thanks for the detailed information, this truly looks awesome!

 

Checked out Noshadows vid and the speed of MM makes me giddy ^^

 

 

Yes I am having a blast with MM right now running HM Cademimu Svii

[NoTomorrow]

3.98 GB more to download aaaaarh

[BetaKiller]

What snipers got screwwed. This is the worse patch ever. A usless ability and talent. RotHC sucks.

 

Hey guys! We got a troll here, please avoid feeding it more than this ^^

[NoTomorrow]

btw, you can now grab 2 tier 5 active talents in a build. For example you can have Cull and FT at the same time. Probably its not worth it because you give up on a lot of goodies situated above. But it's possible.

[stringcat]

btw, you can now grab 2 tier 5 active talents in a build. For example you can have Cull and FT at the same time. Probably its not worth it because you give up on a lot of goodies situated above. But it's possible.

 

I don't know. Something like this might work. It gets you all the buffs to OS and some energy management from cluster bombs.

 

It gives up some nice utility and buffs at the top of the MM tree, but nothing absolutely critical I think. The major issue with the build would be energy regen, but I think it would be a matter of careful rather than desperate management.

[Rigsta]

Well engineering has been nerfed slightly. Augmented shields has been moved to the lethality tree.

 

In it's place we've got a wonderful new talent called EMP Recycler that is basically useless, all it does it reduces the cooldown by 5 secs...so that's now 55secs instead of 1 min. Utterly useless.

 

I must admit I can't see a use for it Maybe if I had some crazy-perfect PVE DPS rotation that depended on adrenalin probe > EMP the moment they're off cooldown? Very situational.

 

Overall Engineering lost some survivability due to the loss of augmented shields, but gained damage.

[BetaKiller]

Well managed to do some testing

 

With MM I had no issues keeping energy up, actually I was spamming as much heavy hitters as I could like SoS, Ambush and using FT right after, the only moment I actually ended going below 60% was using many Snipes in a row and even then not for long. Since I could not keep the energy without hitting 100% I am probably doing something wrong so I'll do some more testing.

 

With Lethality my rotation did not change a single bit apart from using Takedown whenever Cull CD allows.

Only issues I am looking right now is due to smaller GCD I am having about 0.5s of delay into the next Cull.

Lethal Takedown is allowing sometimes for TD to be used twice before next Cull which I'm finding odd, I think its a bug so have to check that.

[Kelderek]

Assuming the Accuracy cap is still 10%, you will need accuracy in EVERY item slot if you do not have the skill in the MM tree. I was able to get 110.27% accuracy using enhancement swaps in the Arkanian pieces and using accuracy earpiece and implants. That leaves no room for surge or alacrity on enhancements (at least at this gear level and a lethality spec). With no surge at all, I figure I may as well ditch crit for more power.

 

So my gearing attempt looks like this: Accuracy + Power until 110% tech accuracy. If I had any room after that I would probably choose Alacrity + Power.

 

I'm assuming that at some future higher item level that we could get enough surge on top of the needed accuracy to make swapping out some power for crit more worthwhile.

 

With all dps class buffs, a full set of Arkanian Professional gear straight off the vendor, no relics, no consumables and no augments, using a 2/8/36 spec I pulled about 1850 dps in a very laggy fleet on the 55 target dummy. This set of gear will give you about 104% tech accuracy, 4% alacrity, 27% crit and 70% multiplier.

 

I changed the gear around to remove almost all crit in favor of power, and removed all surge and alacrity rating for accuracy I managed to do 1925 dps. The stats were about 22% crit, 51% multiplier, 2% alacrity, 110.27% tech accuracy and well over 1000 power. So the accuracy does help a lot. Adding in relics, consumables and augments should bump that up a fair bit.

 

Even with such low crit, I still had no energy management issues running the usual full lethality spec.

[paowee]

Assuming the Accuracy cap is still 10%, you will need accuracy in EVERY item slot if you do not have the skill in the MM tree. I was able to get 110.27% accuracy using enhancement swaps in the Arkanian pieces and using accuracy earpiece and implants. That leaves no room for surge or alacrity on enhancements (at least at this gear level and a lethality spec). With no surge at all, I figure I may as well ditch crit for more power.

 

So my gearing attempt looks like this: Accuracy + Power until 110% tech accuracy. If I had any room after that I would probably choose Alacrity + Power.

 

I'm assuming that at some future higher item level that we could get enough surge on top of the needed accuracy to make swapping out some power for crit more worthwhile.

 

With all dps class buffs, a full set of Arkanian Professional gear straight off the vendor, no relics, no consumables and no augments, using a 2/8/36 spec I pulled about 1850 dps in a very laggy fleet on the 55 target dummy. This set of gear will give you about 104% tech accuracy, 4% alacrity, 27% crit and 70% multiplier.

 

I changed the gear around to remove almost all crit in favor of power, and removed all surge and alacrity rating for accuracy I managed to do 1925 dps. The stats were about 22% crit, 51% multiplier, 2% alacrity, 110.27% tech accuracy and well over 1000 power. So the accuracy does help a lot. Adding in relics, consumables and augments should bump that up a fair bit.

 

Even with such low crit, I still had no energy management issues running the usual full lethality spec.

 

L55 Target Dummy! >__<, I will have to do my parses again... Thanks for this..!

[NoTomorrow]

I veel like lethality has been Incredibly simplified. Removing the CD on corrosive grende, making it spamable +10 energy, crazy. You no longer have this target switching problem with. Yuonly need 2gcd before you cull. Thats it. Takedown proccing always procs after Cull.

[paowee]

I veel like lethality has been Incredibly simplified. Removing the CD on corrosive grende, making it spamable +10 energy, crazy. You no longer have this target switching problem with. Yuonly need 2gcd before you cull. Thats it. Takedown proccing always procs after Cull.

 

"You no longer have this target switching problem with." This is due to the energy regen mechanic in 2.0. What's hindering dot snipers from effectively target switching is the huge energy cost of the setup for Cull. In 2.0 assuming the energy regen stays the same, this ~is no longer a problem.

Edited February 22, 2013 by paowee

[NoTomorrow]

We will have to reevaluate completely how we view the specs and their weaknesses, as some of them are bassically gone.

 

Yesterday while testing the new MM and Leth rotations, i had a weird feeling that i was playing twoo twin specs. they both felt a little similar compared to what i was used to feel before in 1.7.

 

With all this novelty, Engineering seems to be less powerful than in 1.7.

 

BTW: the lingering toxins have a different icon (colorless), it's easy to identify.

[Cyanothis]

L55 Target Dummy! >__<, I will have to do my parses again... Thanks for this..!

 

hmm I'd assumed the ship ops dummy had been upgraded to lvl 55 anyway. I'll try hitting the ones on fleet and compare

 

 

BTW: the lingering toxins have a different icon (colorless), it's easy to identify.

 

I've heard that you can increase the size of debuffs/buffs on targets and yourself in the options now. One of my guild mates was playing around and said it was an option.

[paowee]

hmm I'd assumed the ship ops dummy had been upgraded to lvl 55 anyway. I'll try hitting the ones on fleet and compare

 

 

 

 

I've heard that you can increase the size of debuffs/buffs on targets and yourself in the options now. One of my guild mates was playing around and said it was an option.

My initial parses a few minutes ago on the fleet's L55 ops dummy

 

2200 as MM and (compared to ~2400 on the L50 ship ops dummy)

2500 as Hybrid (compared to ~2600 on the L50 ship ops dummy)

 

i stopped there and did not bother parsing again with Full Lethality because the extreme lag.

Edited February 22, 2013 by paowee

[bjbm]

Hey guys! We got a troll here, please avoid feeding it more than this ^^

 

Because the new roll is so awesome right? Especially in PVE.

 

/s

[ambitiousapple]

First up, @ Express - i have seen ur reply in ur thread and u make some decent points. I have a few points to counter them but i haven't written them up and honestly, now that we're theory-crafting for 2.0, there's really no need to go back and discuss pre-2.0 stuff

 

Obviously, bolster bugs are making some things tough atm, but i'm actually really liking the potential pressure on healers dealt out by Leth; the spammable AOE Dot is solid and cheap (meaning cleansing is gonna be tough), and the burst now given through the takedown proc is solid (chaining EP with takedown should be nice). Now that your FG doesnt break due to your DoTs, grabbing 2 points in Engi for reduced FG cooldown is a solid choice IMO, and i reckon it will help promote a deep Leth build in ranked.

 

MM is very tempting to me (as someone who was previously over it) as the burst is crazy strong now; reflected dmg shouldnt be an issue as no quality sniper is going to be attacking tanks in MM spec anyway lul. Alacrity boost is deffo worth it and makes getting the jump on enemies much, much easier.

 

Engi is pretty much useless to me now as survivability has dropped while the other trees are crazy potent. I thought the 'deployable bal shield' was going to be engi exclusive but alas...

 

I already touched on this, but I think the changes to alacrity will be especially huge for MM specs; I don't stack any alac in my current gear set but I would be keen to find out how much crit + power I'd have to drop to get Ambush down to a 1.0sec cast time...

 

Again, @ Express (and other regular sniper contributors), swing us a PM if u wanna get together on a Mumble/TS channel and get some games/theory-crafting going. I'll be playing and talking with a 250'ish ping but I'm sure i'll cope

 

(sorry for typos, typing real quick to get back to the PTS action)

 

PS: should we start a bugged leth top dmg thread for luls? From just versing random Snipers/Slingers today I seem to be doubling most of their damage (I'm talking about bugged players vs bugged players, obviously)

Edited February 22, 2013 by ambitiousapple

[Cyanothis]

I already touched on this, but I think the changes to alacrity will be especially huge for MM specs; I don't stack any alac in my current gear set but I would be keen to find out how much crit + power I'd have to drop to get Ambush down to a 1.0sec cast time...

 

I mucked around with alacrity last night using the 162 rating gear, the 2% from the DF tree and swtiching all enhancements out for +alacrity ones. I managed to get it to 7.78% which resulted in a 1.3 aimed shot cast time when also running burst volley.

 

Top end gear will allow for a bit more alacrity but maybe ot a max of c9 - 10% then if you really sold out to alacrity you could shove in +alacrity augments and maybe then hit a 1.0 cast time but I dont think it will be worth it.

 

As i said in my previous post with that level of alacrity I had a hard time staying off 100% energy which is funny but probably not very efficient.

[NoTomorrow]

Hello ambitiousapple glad to see you back!

 

I am quite happy wth most of the changes and the removal of so many lethality weaknesses: ballistic dampers available to take with 9% cunning and +10 energy. No more CD on Corrosive grenade (this is huge), which basically removes the problem of being unable to target switch if your CG is on CD., etc etc.

 

Ballistic shield is now usable outside of entrench (as before you risked getting CCed if you did not use entrench). Well so many things have changed that currently we will have to reevaluate our views on everything.

 

Alacrity: We need to find a sweet spot where you gain enough alacrity with MM. By this i mean, having enough alacrity that you get to use all your high damaging abilities but not get into a state when you have them all on CD, and just are stuck with snipe-snipe (you should only use this once per rotation that includes Ambush and SoS).

I am looking forward to ppl that can do the math and tell me how much alacrity is the optimal value.

 

I am a little worried about Engineering currently. Survivability will be lower, ppl say that you lose a total of something like 3000 HP with these weaker shield probes. It's still probably a very decent spec, probably we are all MM and Leth overhyped and Engineering remained largely the same.

 

What do you ppl think of Lethality vs MM. I am very excited about them both. But leth doesn't seem to trail behind MM with so much less weaknesses. It still lacks the ability to control the players like MM does (especially after the new legshoot snare in MM). But it's no longer that squishy squishy spec that will get blown away.

 

I couldnt transfer my sniper on PTS, so i brought my gunslinger there. the lag is currently 120 for me. I think it's manageable but i am not expecting great responsiveness from my toon compared to what i have on red eclipse with 55 lag.

 

Message me on PTS, my slinger's name is Spanishiwa.

Edited February 22, 2013 by NoTomorrow

[Sosajoshua]

So looking at my new Lethality tree i love it! The corrosive mine from cover escape is more a PvP move than PvE but thats not to say it wont be useful in operations. I dont really see much of a boost in damage by ability changes and yet i see Lethality as more beautiful with more survivability.

 

Oh and Lethal Takedown <3

Edited February 22, 2013 by Sosajoshua

[stringcat]

We will have to reevaluate completely how we view the specs and their weaknesses, as some of them are bassically gone.

 

Yesterday while testing the new MM and Leth rotations, i had a weird feeling that i was playing twoo twin specs. they both felt a little similar compared to what i was used to feel before in 1.7.

 

With all this novelty, Engineering seems to be less powerful than in 1.7.

 

BTW: the lingering toxins have a different icon (colorless), it's easy to identify.

 

The central talent to engineering (same position in the tree as FT and Cull) is EMP Discharge, which is now pretty pointless because they made everything so cheap in all three trees; energy is no longer a constraint for any tree, as far as I can tell.

 

The roll damage charges are not impressive. You can occasionally get all of them off on a single person, but that requires they be positioned really close to a wall and the line of affect is REALLY REALLY narrow; it's easy to miss someone rolling right by them and do no damage at all. I don't anticipate more than a couple charges hurting someone even rolling through a crowd --- and by strafing an enemy you're choosing to not actually, you know, put distance between them and you.

 

(In the Arikahan PVE gear vs an OP in the same, ordinary damage from roll charge was 1.4 k or so)

 

I am so disappointed. I also don't understand why they thought Engineering needed such a severe nerf. I don't think plasma probe is a good enough reason to run it in 2.0 in ranked.

Edited February 22, 2013 by stringcat

[Synavix]

 

BTW: the lingering toxins have a different icon (colorless), it's easy to identify.

 

That only took way too long to happen. Great news tho, thanks for that info.