When it comes to Sniper's you get people who play Engineering, but never that many who actively main an engineering sniper as their main class within the game....and there's a very important distinction between the two. especially when you are referring to PVP. Back when I was actively participating in pvp I could name just 2 others on my server who I knew that mained an engineering sniper...lol and oh man did they know how to play the spec. In 4.0 sniper's were in a pretty good state, and then they ended up giving us all that healing in 5.0, so of course what happened...you get a lot more playing engineering and those who actually knew how to play engineering did even better, enter the posts that said sniper's were OP (this is right about when I quit the game). Faltun will understand what I'm saying. For the record I've watched some of your engineering vids and it's nice to see someone playing Engineering, there's simply never been that many of us who has engineering as their main spec and main character. It's quite one thing to play a spec when a spec is in it's prime, but quite something else entirely to play it when the masses believe it's....not so good (putting it politely), and even more something else for those few to be able to utilise the spec and do well with it. Keep the spec alive Faltun

In regards to a speed boost I'd rather have my shiv back with the little boost in speed it gave us. Saved my bacon on numerous occasions back in the day.

You do realise the concept of the fact I quit the game 5 years ago and only just reactivated my account means I'm highly unlikely going to be making new videos during that 5 year period where I'm not playing? The point as you put it, has not been made Whilst you're looking take a look at SnipersFOTM and episode 102 and perhaps you'll see I made my comments about healing back then and the main reason why I quit.

That right there is my point, as I said I have no intention to upset or antagonise anyone. I've heard that argument before back when I was playing, there were many people who said for ages that snipers needed a huge boost, that we were boardling upon being useless yet all the time there were those of us that were doing fine.

I'm sorry but again I have to point out my knowledge is from just after 5.0 started and I can assure you back then I was used to not having healing and did ok for myself. Operatives had insane healing even back then so that argument doesn't really enter into the equation. I am not trying to antagonise you or anyone else in the slightest but the sniper has always had things stacked against them, as an engineering sniper I feel like my defences are in a better position to that of the other two specs. Back then I could count the amount of engineering snipers on just 1 or two fingers, only one I remember is a sniper called Heymonkey. The sniper has always needed to have a good balance between offence, defence and mobility. Do any one of those out of balance and you're going to be toast, the issue was knowing when to use your cc's and in what capacity you use them, and when to move around. People have always been able to tell the good snipers from the bad snipers, the ones who know what they're doing will continue using them and will still be able to turn out the goods because they didn't need it in the first place, the ones who relied upon the healing will not. It's simply the way of things.

I can't remember all the gunslinger terminology my apologies. It is odd what they have done and it does differ between specs as well. For example on engineering we can have maim and evasion, but we cannot have maim and hololocate. Though for me though I see the strategic value of hololocate, it's very lore'/immersion breaking for me and would take Maim over it any day of the week. I'm not familiar with hideout/scrambling I'm afraid so can't comment. Losing Flashbang completely (no idea if that was removed in 7.0 or 6.0) is a loss, though it depends how many other classes have their version available to them. With all of that combined though we still have access to: Legshot, Cover Pulse, Shield, Entrench, meticulous preparation and if you're engineering Evasion, Maim and the 2 second stun on EMP Discharge/Plasma Probe. So that's the basis of our defence right there. I can appreciate that the loss of healing is a big thing but we survived for five years without it. The only thing we're missing is flashbang. I didn't take a lot of notice of the other two specs (I've always had Engineering as my main class in the game), but if they can't have maim and evasion then that is an odd thing to do. Evasion was back when I last played a key skill. They have made some talents part of a choice that I barely rated...some of which are a high skill level. My first impression of all the changes from coming back after 5 years is things were quite screwed up. For engineering though as I've specified it doesn't look to be that bad. Back then I was never against us having some healing but they went way overboard in 5.0, I have no idea if it was nerfed at all but if it wasn't then my 5 years out of date view is you all got lucky it didn't happen sooner. The defence changes are another thing entirely however, having to chose between maim and evasion if thats the case for marksman and verluence sucks and should be revisited, but at the same time you can have maim and hololocate which engineering can't. All in all, I fully admit I haven't stepped foot inside a warzone since my return and I don't have the knowledge as to how the other classes are now (they're still lvl 65), but from an engineering point of view I can get pretty close to the defences I used to have when I last played. the lack of healing for me is not a bit deal.

For one thing you need to understand I've returned to the game after 5ish years away so I haven't experienced the history everyone else has, I quit shortly after 5.0. Back then snipers were in a very good state already, our defences were pretty good and used correctly could be made to do some funky stuff. But then on top of that they gave us essentially a combined set of healing skills that could bring back close to 90% heals. That's quite simply far too much for a class like the sniper with the amount of CC's we had. A sniper who is average at the class or has only just started playing, still getting to grips with how to use the cc correctly (which lets be honest does take a new sniper some time), then such heals are going to help a lot. But give veteran snipers that amount of healing and they're essentially in god mode. To have some healing? Sure, as long as it's balanced of course, but THAT amount of healing? It was far too much.

It was a mistake for them to give us those heals in 5.0 anyway

If I had to pick something then gunslinger probably.

Does my signature look like I play melee? ...in second thoughts don't answer that. I have all the classes, I'll give you one guess to determine which one I prefer. There's no difference here from what it's like to be a sniper v stealth enemies. In fact...perhaps I should go pest a load of idiotic babble in that "I miss #nerfoperatives" thread. Not everyone I freely admit that, but a lot of people in this thread should be dipping their head in shame with what they've posted. Ill made posts without a credible ounce of thought put into it. I find healers annoying I find stealthers annoying I find melee that are being healed annoying...when I'm not getting any support from my team I find tanks that do nothing but guard healers all game annoying There's lots of things everyone finds annoying, you know what? It doesn't mean to say things need to be nerfed, it means sometimes you just have to put up with things because that's the way some things have to be. Engineering is one of those...it's ALWAYS been annoying, right from launch, or at least since patch 1.2 (which is when I first started playing the spec). Anyone just waking up to the fact that engineering can be incredibly annoying has been living with their head in the clouds. It's like...seriously...where have you all been?! The by far overwhelming amount of "suggestions" in this thread have been quite simply...awful. People need to urgently gain a better understanding of the game insofar as how everything is linked, and how changes effect everything else because this thread is just embarrassing for a lot of people. For the record, yes I agree that changes need to happen, the difference is the changes I've suggested come from someone that actually understands the spec and has played it as their main since patch 1.2 I know what it's like to play the spec, I know what it's like to be against the spec, I've seen it all, heard it all. Do my changes, and engineering will be fine. Any complaints after those changes are nothing to do with engineering.

No it doesn't, a sign of people who don't think about things properly.

Only problem with that though Icy, is a lot of the posts are complete baloney

I'm biased for sure, but a couple of friends (who weren't sniper addicts!!) told me some time ago now that for them series of shots with the sound effects alone made it far more enjoyable than the slinger. Personally I agree but hey, I'm a self confessed addict

...dude we were so close. Until you edited it and slapped in that insane call for a cooldown. Regarding the radius...yup agreed...said so many times. There wasn't any need or call to buff it to 8m, 5m was and still is perfectly fine. The healing reduction...again yup. Said it here many times, for me it's the healing on ballistic shield. Leaving the heal on covered escape would have been pretty satisfactory by itself. But the slow to 50%, dude you know full well why it was buffed from 50% to 70%, if you slap a cooldown on it and reduce the slow then you'll have to make some amendments to that 2s stun via EMP Discharge. The whole reason why that 70% slow was put in, is quite simple. With a radius of 5m and a slow of 50%, you could never actually get that stun to take effect, by the time you're able to smash that keybind, they've already walked out of the area. Not forgetting that the reason the cooldown was removed in the first place was having that cooldown was causing problems for PVE. As soon as you slap a cooldown and slow reduction on plasma probe then you have to completely rework it. the 2 sec stun is still required in order to able to get the damage dealt (use I've heard all arguments regarding plasma probe and damage, lets not go there dude...the thread is long enough as it I). They'd also have to amend the damage from damage over time to front loaded damage, like it was originally. That would be much more of an extensive change than a lot of people realise remove the healing from ballistic shield (legendary utility) - Yes Reduce the radius to 5m - yup but also get rid of the speed buff on countermeasures as well as the purge to movement imparring effects. We don't need this with the purge we already have on covered escape. The speed boost we used to get on shiv was much better suited to the class. this is of course the re-establish range utility. Those three changes alone (together with the simultaneous nerfing of mercs), would be more than sufficient. Anything else is overkill.

He really is, I'm not detailing the nerfs I myself propose again (I've repeated myself far too many times). I admit that something needs to change, just do a search on the posts I've made in this thread (and the other one that was going around), and you'll find them. Do those nerfs to engineering/snipers and the problem will be fixed. No cooldown, or reduction in the slow is required on plasma probe.

Caprica might be a top ranked player but he's still wrong about plasma probe needing a nerf in it's slow capability.

Wallbang was hilarious, it was one of those unintended effects that they hadn't planned for that did more damage to the spec than good. No way it should have been allowed to stay around for so long. Far too many snipers cried that it should be allowed to stay, that the roll in place bug was actually critical to the specs performance in pve. Ohhhhh the posts from snipers back in those days

If the Devs do the changes that I propose the "plasma probe" issue will be fixed, it's that simple. Any more complaints on top of that will be no more than the complaints snipers have over stealth. For a long time now stealth have been the bane of snipers, in fact do enough searching on these forums and ask enough veteran operatives and you'll probably find comments along the lines of "if you can't kill a sniper, then you're not much of an operative". It's give and take, and so far a lot of people on this thread aren't willing to give anything. It just reeks of a lot of a lot of LTP in my view, as I've said before. A lot of people have come to me and said they didn't know what to do versus me because they never came across an engineering sniper before, that was before 5.0, with these defences? If I was at my best? HAH! ....put me in a group with some competent players? LOL!! ...it'll just compound the issue. Engineering has always given melee trouble, jugs and marauders especially. The only saving grace historically has been the insanity of OP healers and the two classes (and their mirrors) being lightsabre wielding classes (i.e. meaning they're very popular). Now I would say more about sentinels and marauders but consider that although I have both (...I have all classes)...I spend my time on my legion of snipers. For me to comment on the class in any way shape or form would be unfair to say the least. What I will say, is I know what it's like to kill that class as an engineering sniper....and to be killed BY that class. One of the things your class relies upon is controlling a sniper when you do get within melee range. Well...that's part of the problem isn't it? Thanks to that ballistic shield utility we get far more protections than just the healing, and what with the seek cover utility proving immunity from movement imparring effects on top of that in ADDITION to the insane 6 second speed buff + purge on countermeasures, (which we can reset I'll remind you), in addition to the purge we get on covered escape? ....it's no wonder melee, your class included, might be having a few problems. People are focussing on the 70% slow because that's the easiest thing to do, they're not looking at the entire situation. That slow is annoying therefore it must be nerfed. Well stealth is annoying, as a sniper I want that blasted ability nerfed to hell!! ....sound ridiculous? From my point of view as a sniper, there's no difference whatsoever. Back when they were at their peak, two sentinels from a TRE guild called Lord of the Drinks once told me that they hate snipers, with ever fibre of their being. They told me on numerous occasions that they constantly watch the snipers/slingers on the opposing sides for just one or two skills, as soon as the sniper uses that skill, they pounce. they'd even save one or two skills especially for the class. At the time, they were two of the best sentinels/marauders on the server, and that's the difference between a good player and the bad, they know precisely how to approach the sniper, no matter what the spec, and they know what skills of theirs is effective against them as well. The amendments I have suggested are all that needs to happen, as I have said numerous times now.

Look at the posts I've done in this thread, and the other one that was flying around and you'll get the answer. I'm not repeating myself.

Actually Icy isn't the only one defending them, there are others in this thread. There's also more out there who don't post, I know that because I've had a few of private messages supporting some of the posts I've made, yet they haven't posted themselves (which personally I don't see as a problem). What it all boils down to is this, as a veteran engineering sniper, probably one of the few around that's mained one for some long, I've told you three amendments that need to be made (four if you include the nerfing of mercs at the same time). I'm not about to detail them again. Now you can either support those changes and see the beneficial impact it will have on the melee or you can learn to play. Yes I went there, you can all go learn to play. The vast majority of changes a lot of you are proposing are completely unwarranted. There doesn't need to be a cooldown timer on plasma probe and there sure as hell doesn't need to be a slow reduction from 70% (this is where you need to go read what I've stated on more than one occasion!) And I'm sorry but it's laughable to hear people even mention go prove it via 1v1 or whatever it was someone's recently said. This game is not balanced around 1v1, it never has been and it never will do. There are ways to counter snipers, even engineering snipers, and yes it might actually mean on a couple of occasions to double team up. But a large part of it is situational awareness. To kill me you don't need to be the best at your class, you just need to know your class and have decent situational awareness. If you are grouped with friends, then your chances against that sniper has just improved. Sorry folks but it's time to stop crying, time to stop making silly suggestions and support the legitimate changes that won't actually completely destroy the entire feel to the spec. Sniper's are NOT omnipotent.

You do not need really good stats for lowbies/midbies. It's entirely possible to do pvp all the way from 10-69 on all starting level stuff. Just got a lvl 10 wrist piece of armour? Cool, wack it on that's one piece you don't have to worry about. Bolster does the rest. As a sniper we get our core defensive skills very early on. If you spend the time to look at what each of your defensive skills do, and concentrate on mastering those first...then your lowbie experience in pvp will be a lot more rewarding. ...especially if you actually think about what you're doing in the warzone, and not just tunnel as much damage as you can...you don't learn anything that way.

pfft one character out The gearing system still puts me off, got a lowbie toon I'm working on though. We'll see how it goes.

I can assure you that Thaladin knows the class and all three specs pretty well dude.

Get rid of the stupid gearing system and bring back something similar to what we had in 4.0. That would be a good start...

A lot of what you've said dude is to do with the increase from 5m to 8m. That 8m is a HUGE buff objectively. 5m was about right with the 70% slow. That 8m is such a huge area it's just far too inviting for people to just spam it, by reducing it to 5m alone the effectiveness of spamming it will be significantly lower. That's why I do not favour a nerf to the slow or slapping a cooldown on it. They have to reduce the radius back to 5m, both a cooldown and slow reduction will have no impact whatsoever when it comes to capping. With our defences as they are...look, the both of us know the sniper's defences are in a good position right now. They are going to be forced to reduce the radius, if BW don't....well....might as well pack up and find another MMO. You increase the radius of an already powerful highly objective skill like plasma probe (which they have done), that in itself is going to cause soooo many problems. That's why a lot of requests/votes to slap a cooldown on plasma probe or reduce the slow are simply misguided. Not quoting your post because it was insanely long but responding to your 5 numbered points. 1) the passive skill we got in 5.0 gives a dps boost with EMP discharge and plasma probe. Not going to put it in detail, but essentially the radius of PP isn't exactly going to hurt with this. Even if the damage is too much with a reduce radius of 5m, if we're dealing too much damage....hey np, then nerf us. but not too much to make us useless. You and I both know BW go heavy handed, we do NOT want to go back to the 3.0 era. They absolutely gutted the spec back then, it was not a good time. 2) That's very true, which is why I favour the removal of countermeasures and a reduced amount of healing with ballistic shield 3) Totally agree with you, even if ballistic shield is on a 3m cooldown, it's still a 60% heal. We have a 10% heal utility on covered escape. The covered escape heal is pretty much all we needed. Get rid of the 60% heal, or at the very least drop it to 20% or somet like that, and it'll be fine. Realistically, we only need a bit of healing because the insanity of the sorc healers. With sorc healers being OP in 4.0 it meant melee had a lot more uptime against us, that does cause us problems. There's such a fine line on balance between melee and ranged, quite often that balance can be destroyed even if our two classes are left completely alone. 4) Totally agree, which is why I favour it being moved back to 5m. Anything else is simply not justifiable, it MUST be put back to 5m whilst keeping that 70% slow. 5) You nerf mercs, as again we both know and agree they need to be, and you resolve that point. I think I'm being very fair considering I'm agreeing, and have always been whilst posting in these two threads, that plasma probe as it is, needs to change. What everyone appears to be missing, is the careful balance that's required for plasma probe. That skill is VERY important to the engineering spec, it's pretty much it's heart and soul. You destroy plasma probe and you pretty much destroy the unique feel of engineering that's existed since launch.