Please Remove Tank, DPS and Heal

[kevlarto]

all I can say is try out GW2 allot of folks thought they were ready to play a game without a trinity, and well allot of folks realize we have the trinity system for a reason, until they can replace it with a system that works on par or better than the trinity, it is not going away anytime soon.. I would like to see something new as well, but givien the game mechanics in mmo's it's tough to make raid quality content based around, dabbblers.. maybe some day..

[Icebergy]

Go play GW2 if you're so interested in this. Oh wait, that game is boring as hell after a couple of weeks.

 

The trinity works fine for this game. QQ somewhere else.

 

This^^. Trinity is fine, I like the trinity. Please don't post absolutes like you speak for every gamer, OP, you do not.

[lavido]

Its,..2013 and I think we all can agree something needs to change. I am talking about the old, worn out and tired system of Tank, DPS, and Heal. It really is obsolete in this day and age,...everyone...EVERYONE no matter what class you are ....wants to beat on the bad guy,..they want to slay,..ok.....they don't want to follow rules in fights...they just want to beat on stuff and watch stuff die

 

This notion that you have to have dps, heal and tank in fights is old school...it's past its time

 

Ask anyone...ANYONE...and they will tell you...they just want to Tank n Spank and get hell outta there and collect the commendations. In and Out..simple..fast and done

 

As it is now,...what do people do in flashpoints? Lol...they skip trash and go directly to Boss and kill for the phat lewt. Spacebar commandos and don't you dare listen to the story...rush to the Boss...get your objective and done

 

Dps fights stuff that the tank isn't even fighting ROFL...healer is healing the dps'rs instead of the tank ROFL...tank is has no clue what aggro is ROFL.....i mean it is total chaos in mmo gaming now days. It is rare to find a coordinated group in traditional tank, heal and dps roles working like a swiss watch

 

Recommendation:

1. Give everyone a natural heal buff over time duration

2. Give everyone heavy armor

3. Give everyone an equal amount of dps

4. Get rid of need and pass and make all loot drop particular to your class and automatically go into your inventory

 

If you disagree with this post....see the thread titled....Don't Get Discouraged by Jerks in Pug's, FP's and Op's. I am offering a solution to eliminate jerks in mmo's,..well no way to totally eliminate jerks but you get the idea

 

Yeah im sorry but if this game goes to nothing but tank n spank or 8-16 just doing dps rotations to kill something im gonna uninstall and stop paying for this. some of us actually like our fights to have some mechanics if this entire game was just stand here push 1-6 on keyboard activate cooldown gg heres loot i can garentee you will probably play it for 1 month endgame then leave to something else

[LogicalPremise]

Go play GW2 if you're so interested in this. Oh wait, that game is boring as hell after a couple of weeks.

 

Quoted for truth. A large number of the people screaming how great GW2 would be have given up on it in turn because it highlights the problem with the game -- it's utterly boring.

 

I understand the OP's frustration, but the problem , sadly, is the people, not the system. Play with more mature players and you won't run into this.

 

Play with guild and friends: have a blast, every time

Play with pugs: total toss up, sometimes fun, sometimes horrible.

[fresnosmokey]

So, what? OP wants to make all the classes the same? Yeah, that'll last a full five minutes until people start complaining about that. You want all classes to be the same, you might as well only have one class. Heck, you might as well just play a single player game.

[jedip_enguin]

This is a hilariously stupid request to make of a game that has already been out over a year, so stupid in fact that I can only assume the OP is either trolling, or simply profoundly ignorant of the sheer scale or the request being made.

 

This game uses the trinity system, there are others that do not, if hating the trinity means that much to you I'd suggest you might be happier with something like GW2

[CaptianFordo]

I really like the Trinity-less Guild Wars 2, whenever I feel like go PvPing, I log out SWTOR and log in GW2.

 

I also really like the dungeons there.

 

 

However, I hate leveling there, this game hands down has the best leveling/eusting experience of all MMO.

 

 

So, if they adapted GW2's combat mechanics into this game it would be the ultimate game for me.

 

Not happening though

 

So why are you posting here again?

 

[Spinikar]

Its,..2013 and I think we all can agree something needs to change. I am talking about the old, worn out and tired system of Tank, DPS, and Heal. It really is obsolete in this day and age,...everyone...EVERYONE no matter what class you are ....wants to beat on the bad guy,..they want to slay,..ok.....they don't want to follow rules in fights...they just want to beat on stuff and watch stuff die

 

This notion that you have to have dps, heal and tank in fights is old school...it's past its time

 

Ask anyone...ANYONE...and they will tell you...they just want to Tank n Spank and get hell outta there and collect the commendations. In and Out..simple..fast and done

 

As it is now,...what do people do in flashpoints? Lol...they skip trash and go directly to Boss and kill for the phat lewt. Spacebar commandos and don't you dare listen to the story...rush to the Boss...get your objective and done

 

Dps fights stuff that the tank isn't even fighting ROFL...healer is healing the dps'rs instead of the tank ROFL...tank is has no clue what aggro is ROFL.....i mean it is total chaos in mmo gaming now days. It is rare to find a coordinated group in traditional tank, heal and dps roles working like a swiss watch

 

Recommendation:

1. Give everyone a natural heal buff over time duration

2. Give everyone heavy armor

3. Give everyone an equal amount of dps

4. Get rid of need and pass and make all loot drop particular to your class and automatically go into your inventory

 

If you disagree with this post....see the thread titled....Don't Get Discouraged by Jerks in Pug's, FP's and Op's. I am offering a solution to eliminate jerks in mmo's,..well no way to totally eliminate jerks but you get the idea

 

I'm sorry, but I disagree with EVERYTHING you just said.

 

In my Guild, I'm a designated healer. Have been since launch. I love healing, hate DPS, and find tanking interesting. Then we have tanks who love tanking, DPS who love their role. We work as a team, each with our roles to play. The game trinity is not outdated. It work well in this game, and where do you get the idea that everything is Tank and Spank. Have you done TFB? Each of those fights have very different mechanics that each role has to deal with in different ways. Again, team work, not just a bunch of players doing whatever.

[JLazarillo]

Primary concession: this game is what it is and it's balanced the way it's balanced and at this point, it's not going to change significantly from that. For better or worse, this is a game with a strict trinity system and changing from that now is effectively impossible.

 

That said, for sake of argument, it doesn't mean that the system, at least in the way it works in this game, isn't poor, or that it isn't the reason teaming in this game can be so tedious and un-fun. It's not the roles themselves, that are flawed, mind, but rather the way they are relied upon. In a more balanced game, the same task could be completed by four tanks, or by four DPS, for example, but what we'd have is that the way they would complete it would be different. Of course, a balanced team would also take a different (and likely somewhat easier, due to its adaptability) approach. Instead, what we see mot of the tie is "this task needs X number of Y role, specifically, and without that, don't even bother".

 

It also doesn't help that there are half as many tanking and healing classes as are required for a proper team, which is probably a big part of what causes the system to be as much of a drag as it is in this particular game, but that, unfortunately, isn't particularly likely to change either at this point.

[wargonglok]

seeing as every game in this format, including gw 2, contains the trinity, i think the trinity is gonna live through 2013 and beyond.

 

support, damage, control, WoW, Swtor, Gw2 all have these, contrary to popular beleif about gw2

 

so yeah, your basis for this argument is wrong, goodnight

[SnoggyMack]

For better or worse, this is a game with a strict trinity system and changing from that now is effectively impossible.

 

It's not that strict a system.

 

In a more balanced game, the same task could be completed by four tanks, or by four DPS, for example, but what we'd have is that the way they would complete it would be different.

 

A lot of content can be completed with a mishmash group. Because the game's not that strict. Until you get to specific content, on harder difficulty modes, which then shuttle people into a more defined role.

 

A lot of MMORPGs do that anyways. This game isn't really that strict at all about it.

[Arvig]

Its,..2013 and I think we all can agree something needs to change. I am talking about the old, worn out and tired system of Tank, DPS, and Heal. It really is obsolete in this day and age,...everyone...EVERYONE no matter what class you are ....wants to beat on the bad guy,..they want to slay,..ok.....they don't want to follow rules in fights...they just want to beat on stuff and watch stuff die

 

This notion that you have to have dps, heal and tank in fights is old school...it's past its time

 

Ask anyone...ANYONE...and they will tell you...they just want to Tank n Spank and get hell outta there and collect the commendations. In and Out..simple..fast and done

 

As it is now,...what do people do in flashpoints? Lol...they skip trash and go directly to Boss and kill for the phat lewt. Spacebar commandos and don't you dare listen to the story...rush to the Boss...get your objective and done

 

Dps fights stuff that the tank isn't even fighting ROFL...healer is healing the dps'rs instead of the tank ROFL...tank is has no clue what aggro is ROFL.....i mean it is total chaos in mmo gaming now days. It is rare to find a coordinated group in traditional tank, heal and dps roles working like a swiss watch

 

Recommendation:

1. Give everyone a natural heal buff over time duration

2. Give everyone heavy armor

3. Give everyone an equal amount of dps

4. Get rid of need and pass and make all loot drop particular to your class and automatically go into your inventory

 

If you disagree with this post....see the thread titled....Don't Get Discouraged by Jerks in Pug's, FP's and Op's. I am offering a solution to eliminate jerks in mmo's,..well no way to totally eliminate jerks but you get the idea

 

I've only read your post, not the replies so my reply reflects that.

 

I just have to disagree here. Okay, yes you get groups where the DPS are all over the place, healers are forced to try to heal the DPS and the tank due to that, tank doesn't try well to hold aggro and so forth. I can point to any MMO and find people like that though, it's not just this game if you're implying that. Even if not, all that statement proves is that not everyone is as well skilled when it comes to knowing their role. It doesn't prove that the system is broken, just that some people need to learn to play better. Pick any game, any hobby and you'll find that, period.

 

Anyway, people that have yet to gain a lot of skill and/or don't know their class or the game well aren't jerks, they are just unskilled. The ones that can learn, do. The ones that can't, don't. I don't think people are intentionally trying to be jerks via being unskilled or "n00bish" though.

 

I do admit that I do prefer not spacebarring and skipping half the zone to just do the boss fights. But it doesn't bother me enough to complain if that's what the group as a whole prefers. I will ask at the start of the group if people do want to spacebar/skip trash or not though. In part in case we do have someone new to the zone that would prefer to go slower and read the dialogue, in part since I prefer to not rush to that degree. But for me it's not enough of an issue to complain if everyone else says "Yes, spacebar and we skip most trash" either.

 

And I have found that if a n00b to the zone asks to not skip, groups will do that. They might not do the bonus boss, but they at least get to see the dialogue without spacebarring it and the main mobs if nothing else.

 

Or to put it another way, annoyed by people spacebarring and skipping most the trash? Speak up! People will listen and usually do the zone slower if you ask.

 

Anyway, I think your idea would make the classes less unique, not more so with regards to your recommendations. It also would make encounters boring if all of them just end up with the group or ops leaping in to zerg the thing, since everyone is self healing DPS under your suggestions.

[ConradLionhart]

I think we need a new mechanic. The trinity system is painfully rigid and I don't enjoy being in a queue for groupfinder, even as a tank!

 

Queues are not fun.

[GalacticKegger]

I think we need a new mechanic. The trinity system is painfully rigid and I don't enjoy being in a queue for groupfinder, even as a tank!

 

Queues are not fun.

As a tank I've had longer than a 3 minute wait only once, and that was for Cademimu. DPS is a different story, as I've had to wait as long as 10 minutes. Of course I only queue during peak server hours, and normallly run with either guildmates or friends.

 

But I agree that there needs to be a MMORPG where tanking, healing & DPSing no longer exist. Where every role plays the same but different. Where class is determined by organic and fluid matrices instead of rigid and defined skill trees. Just not at the expense of reinventing this game however. I hear GW2 tried it but I haven't played GW since Factions myself. How's that working out for them?

 

Actually ... I would love watching epeeneeDPSers burst into flashpaper without a tank & heals covering their asses. Might be a good tool for teaching 'em how to cool their jets in combat. Unless threat has to go away as well in which case we'd need an entirely new combat system too. Nah ... leave threat alone and let 'em crash & burn.

Edited January 31, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[SnoggyMack]

But I agree that there needs to be a MMORPG where tanking, healing & DPSing no longer exist. Where every role plays the same but different. Where class is determined by organic and fluid matrices instead of rigid and defined skill trees. Just not at the expense of reinventing this game however. I hear GW2 tried it but I haven't played GW since Factions myself. How's that working out for them?

 

Champions Online (the subscriber version) has that.

[Rafaman]

Well... its an old argument. Yea, I've played a couple of games without the holy trinity and ultimately... the specialization occurs anyway as the best strategy. It's just that simple. In my view, I would rather keep it as opposed to having peeps spamming abilities with little or no understanding of how to play as a team.

[Tgeos]

tank healer, dps is what makes the core of a MMO go play Guild wars 2 if you want this

[Aelther]

Ask anyone...ANYONE...and they will tell you...they just want to Tank n Spank and get hell outta there and collect the commendations. In and Out..simple..fast and done

 

Karraga's palace first boss is like that. Cannot taunt, he attacks random guy.... and? Well it's the most boring boss ever. I love the trinity system and it should stay. Just because you always end up in a pug with tanks who have no idea what their job is doesn't mean the system is broken. I personally think DPS is the most boring job ever. I always prefer Tanking or Healing to DPS. I "dpsed" enough while levelling...

[Tgeos]

Karraga's palace first boss is like that. Cannot taunt, he attacks random guy.... and? Well it's the most boring boss ever. I love the trinity system and it should stay. Just because you always end up in a pug with tanks who have no idea what their job is doesn't mean the system is broken. I personally think DPS is the most boring job ever. I always prefer Tanking or Healing to DPS. I "dpsed" enough while levelling...

 

very true just not every can smart, dps to me is like easy as hell and its mostly for the lazy type of ppl, healing and tanking is for the ppl that love the action and the dependability, u cant really fall asleep or have 3 monitors running browsing while being a tank, but if you were a dps you could be lazy and even slack a bit and still do good dmg, dps is easy as hell, also doing it while lvling makes it feel even worse.

[well]

The game is too revolutionary for those close-minded players.

 

GW2 has pretty much hundreds of different, almost equally effective and creative ways to win fights, people are just lazy to think out of the box. They want the same square and boring trinity system where the game tells them what to do, so they don't have to bear with the responsability of their choices along the fights.

 

I mean, a tank will tank, no matter the situation. In GW2, you have to do what the group needs in the fight, be it mitigating damage, buffing allies, moving, etc etc.

 

Actually it is boring.The Swiss Army Knife approach was lame.I really love some who claims others are closed minded when they show they are.

[TalkingDinosaur]

Its,..2013 and I think we all can agree something needs to change. I am talking about the old, worn out and tired system of Tank, DPS, and Heal. It really is obsolete in this day and age,...everyone...EVERYONE no matter what class you are ....wants to beat on the bad guy,..they want to slay,..ok.....they don't want to follow rules in fights...they just want to beat on stuff and watch stuff die

 

This notion that you have to have dps, heal and tank in fights is old school...it's past its time

 

Ask anyone...ANYONE...and they will tell you...they just want to Tank n Spank and get hell outta there and collect the commendations. In and Out..simple..fast and done

 

As it is now,...what do people do in flashpoints? Lol...they skip trash and go directly to Boss and kill for the phat lewt. Spacebar commandos and don't you dare listen to the story...rush to the Boss...get your objective and done

 

Dps fights stuff that the tank isn't even fighting ROFL...healer is healing the dps'rs instead of the tank ROFL...tank is has no clue what aggro is ROFL.....i mean it is total chaos in mmo gaming now days. It is rare to find a coordinated group in traditional tank, heal and dps roles working like a swiss watch

 

Recommendation:

1. Give everyone a natural heal buff over time duration

2. Give everyone heavy armor

3. Give everyone an equal amount of dps

4. Get rid of need and pass and make all loot drop particular to your class and automatically go into your inventory

 

If you disagree with this post....see the thread titled....Don't Get Discouraged by Jerks in Pug's, FP's and Op's. I am offering a solution to eliminate jerks in mmo's,..well no way to totally eliminate jerks but you get the idea

Guild Wars 2 removed the Triad from their game. Now every fight is a endless zerg. Yipee...

[Stradlin]

I

 

 

Ask anyone...ANYONE...and they will tell you...they just want to Tank n Spank and get hell outta there and collect the commendations. In and Out..simple..fast and done

 

 

It is entirely possible this is a troll....I took hook and bait so I suspect it makes a fine one at that;p

 

Exceptionally high amount of things said in OP are very inaccurate. It puzzes me why anyone with mindset presented in quote above would bother to raid more than few weeks. It is mind dumbingly boring, unrewarding and utter waste of time. It needs to be fun, exiting and challenging. Easy fast in out tankspank is none of that. Moment I realize all raid has to offer is just that I either switch place/environment where I raid or quit the game.

 

OP is essentially describing either an ordinary FPS or an few decades old MMO. System where everyone could do everything and got to beat dat bad guy to heart's content was already in place. Eventually it evolved into more complex, sophisticated system; the healer/tank/DPS triumvirate, It has been with us for a very long time for one good reason: it works. It is easy to design fun and varied pve encounters around this system.

 

That is not to say it couldn't and shouldn't evolve further, it is getting old. It irks me WoW(and with it, all WoW clones TOR included )eventually abandoned the idea of various support classes operating in outer reaches of the holy trinity. Wondering how to renew and improve...or even replace the system is a good idea. Suggesting we should go BACK to the diseases Healing/Tank/DPS originally cured is a terrible idea.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Stradlin

[Belacose]

OP would really hate DCUO where there's a controller class added to the trinity.

[slafko]

Its,..2013 and I think we all can agree something needs to change. I am talking about the old, worn out and tired system of Tank, DPS, and Heal. It really is obsolete in this day and age,...everyone...EVERYONE no matter what class you are ....wants to beat on the bad guy,..they want to slay,..ok.....they don't want to follow rules in fights...they just want to beat on stuff and watch stuff die

 

This notion that you have to have dps, heal and tank in fights is old school...it's past its time

 

Don't be silly.

 

If you want to see how a non-trinity game works (and fails miserably) go play Guild Wars 2.

[SamuraBob_Fl]

 

Dps fights stuff that the tank isn't even fighting ROFL..

 

That's what dps are supposed to do. A lot of packs are spread out, so it's hard for the tank to pick up all the mobs. He just needs to grab the golds and silvers. The problem though, is that once the healer casts his first heal, he has aggro on everything. Therefore, it's best for the dps to clear out the standard mobs.