Same gender romance discussion

[Seireeni]

I personally think that the only TV show that has any sign of lesbianism that did well is Lost Girl (Show about a bisexual Succubus). I have not watched the current Season, but I know that it has the main character and the Doctor chick together.

 

still does not look good for gays/lesbians in the media.

 

In the seasons of 9th and 10th Doctor in Doctor Who, there's a character that shows up here and there. In Doctor Who's spinoff series Torchwood, it is shown clearly that this character is gay. However, if I remember correctly, in the Doctor Who -episodes you can actually get the picture that he's the type of guy who kind of flirts a little to everyone (I think he's doing more of that to women in Doctor Who, actually), so I guess this won't count, since you more or less have to watch Torchwood to find out about this.

[Tatile]

Captain Jack Harkness is actually flamboyantly omnisexual - he comes from the future and doesn't have the same hang ups about sex, gender or species that contemporary Earth-humans do; his actor, John Barrowman, is quite gay.

 

And, equal SGRA options will make straight people feel uncomfortable? Excuse me while I'll laugh at that absurd notion.

 

That's like saying a group that is 50% women is dominate by the ladies and makes the little men feel uncomfortable because now they're on equal footing.

[Seireeni]

^ The point still stands, Harkness does seem to act pretty "clean" in Doctor Who, little flirt to left and right to everyone but nothing serious, while in Torchwood, he does seem to prefer males. (And humans, though there are not too many aliens hanging around that would stop messing things up so they can be flirted with). But Doctor Who IS a popular show, and there is a character that does look like a bi/gay for an average viewer.

[Tatile]

^ The point still stands, Harkness does seem to act pretty "clean" in Doctor Who, little flirt to left and right to everyone but nothing serious, while in Torchwood, he does seem to prefer males. (And humans, though there are not too many aliens hanging around that would stop messing things up so they can be flirted with). But Doctor Who IS a popular show, and there is a character that does look like a bi/gay for an average viewer.

 

They're doing more gayness now (although a lot of people accuse Moffat of "queer baiting") with Smith and without dressing it up for laughs, for the most part. Like Dinosaurs in Space and... I am a terrible person I forget her name, the Silurian... VASTRA. Vastra and her wife, Jenny Flint, who (I think, at least) are a fairly good representation of a lesbian couple, in an action packed adventure world. But yes, Doctor Who is a bit watered down because "it's for families", but I think the watering down is more for the pearl-clutching parents, rather than their kids.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Tatile

[Seireeni]

Well, that's even more proof, then. I personally haven't seen much of Smith yet, since Finland gets their Doctor Who REALLY late (last summer, they showed Eccleston's season and Tennant's 2 seasons and started showing it again last week from Tennant's last season), but Netflix had Tennant's 3rd season and Smith's first one, so I have seen them, too. But it's good to hear they are bringing that side to Doctor Who, too. I actually really liked how people weren't all straight in Torchwood.

[ReiKai]

Captain Jack Harkness is actually flamboyantly omnisexual - he comes from the future and doesn't have the same hang ups about sex, gender or species that contemporary Earth-humans do; his actor, John Barrowman, is quite gay.

 

And, equal SGRA options will make straight people feel uncomfortable? Excuse me while I'll laugh at that absurd notion.

 

That's like saying a group that is 50% women is dominate by the ladies and makes the little men feel uncomfortable because now they're on equal footing.

 

Agreed. Besides, any Flirt option with Same or Opposite sex is OPTIONAL!!! Engaging in Romance or just lookin for a booty call with NPC's is completely optional within the game and has ZERO impact beyond your personal experience while playing. I'm straight and I'm a guy, and I don't feel uncomfortable about this at all. It's a game. Made for our enjoyment. There's nothing to feel icky about. If I met with a gay person for real? Yeah, I would act a bit weird cause I am a little homophobic, but I'm not going to treat him or anyone else any differently for it. It's just how I was raised. Doesn't stop them or me from being good people.

[Noblis]

SG comedy="Vicious" UK with Brother Cadfael and Magneto (Derek Jacobi and Ian McKellen)

Haven't seen any episodes but read about it several months ago. QE2 seemed to find these

two actors were fit enough to knight. I do recall a vicious discussion among 3 people when

they "found out" Ian McKellen's orientation. "OMG ! Gandalf is like that !?" A sorry bunch of haters.

 

Anyways, if some disapprove of the subject matter (with anything) they can simply NOT WATCH.

But the elimination of anything a particular group finds offensive won't make it not exist everywhere.

[TheronFett]

still does not look good for gays/lesbians in the media.

 

Anyone remember when Ellen DeGeneres came out on her original tv show in the mid-90's? It was a popular show that went kaboom after she "went gay". Everyone knew Ellen herself was gay, but when the character on the show became openly gay, it blew up in her face. She wasn't on tv for about 10 years after that. Now she's wildly popular.

 

Will & Grace was popular because it was so over the top. Jack was a huge flamer and it was just funny. Will himself seemed almost ashamed to be gay at times, and the show didn't deal with any "real" gay issues or relationships.

 

Queer Eye for the Straight Guy...anyone remember that show? Or is it still on? A group of gay men giving straight men advice about grooming, clothing, and decorating. That was a decent show.

 

To my knowledge, it seems like being gay on television has to come with a sidebar of comedy. Yeah, we're gay, but we're funny too so it's okay.

[nateslice]

I don't feel uncomfortable with gay characters, either; my concern is that... well, have you ever watched a movie with a big plot hole that never gets resolved? And you just can't stop thinking about that? If it seems like you meet more gays than straights in the course of leveling your character, it'd feel like that to me.

 

It'd especially be surreal when the Star Wars movies contain no gay characters. But then you play a Star Wars game and there's gays everywhere? Consider that this game takes place 3000 years before the movies. What happened to all the gays in the meantime? A massive pogrom, like what must've happened to the dinosaurs (and most other animals, too, many of which could speak) sometime between The Flintstones and The Jetsons? Like what happened to the smooth-headed Klingons in Star Trek?

 

However, if the number of confirmed gay NPCs is kept relatively low, then you can presume they do exist in the movies; you just don't really see them, much like you don't really see the big families that must exist in the background to make up for the fact that no featured characters have more than one sibling or two children (and many, AFAIK, have none of either).

 

It'd bother me in a similar way if some characters end up with more gay romance options than straight ones. Why would more men than women be interested in dating my male Trooper? Why would more women than men be attracted to my female Sage? It can't be because she's body type 3; the game doesn't check for that.

 

That's especially a problem if the class stories are indeed going away from here on. If that's the case, and equality is the goal, set the baseline at those classes that get the least opposite-sex action. If it's set at the classes that get the most, a male Trooper will level from 1-55 and then suddenly start seeing same-sex romance options everywhere, after seeing none while leveling up.

 

Maybe "plot hole avoidance" is a better way of putting my concern than "maintaining realism". But it would probably help things in that regard if there's a gay character or two in the upcoming third trilogy. And someone who has like 11 brothers and sisters, while you're at it, Disney.

 

Oh, and I maintain that David on Six Feet Under was the best portrayal of a gay character on any show.

[Tatile]

There were no Chiss in the films, I don't remember seeing an Republic-style Zabraks, Mirialan were only introduced in the Prequels, Twi'leks had their species name given them at a Convention, and yet no one complains about their inclusion in the game. Your attempt at arguing that LGB persons shouldn't be included, or that their inclusion shouldn't be equal, is inane.

 

There weren't any LGBT representations in the Original Trilogy because of the time when it was made and then further that all the romance centred around the Luke/Leia and Anakin/Padme pairings (I remember that Leia was actually a "prize" for the most popular male character, which says a lot about George Lucas's attitude toward women at the time). By that token, surely there should be no inter-species romance, either.

 

Gay people are a plot hole, as well? Are you just trying to be dismissive and cruel at this point?

[Seireeni]

But it would probably help things in that regard if there's a gay character or two in the upcoming third trilogy. And someone who has like 11 brothers and sisters, while you're at it, Disney.

 

Judging by this, keep wishing dearie.

 

EDIT

There were no Chiss in the films, I don't remember seeing an Republic-style Zabraks, Mirialan were only introduced in the Prequels, Twi'leks had their species name given them at a Convention, and yet no one complains about their inclusion in the game. Your attempt at arguing that LGB persons shouldn't be included, or that their inclusion shouldn't be equal, is inane.

 

There weren't any LGBT representations in the Original Trilogy because of the time when it was made and then further that all the romance centred around the Luke/Leia and Anakin/Padme pairings (I remember that Leia was actually a "prize" for the most popular male character, which says a lot about George Lucas's attitude toward women at the time). By that token, surely there should be no inter-species romance, either.

 

Gay people are a plot hole, as well? Are you just trying to be dismissive and cruel at this point?

(Bolding mine)

 

Agen Kolar looks a lot like Republic zabraks to me, and he was at least in revenge of the sith as one of the jedi masters that went to arrest Palpatine after finding out he's Darth Sidious.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Seireeni

[ganondorq]

there could have been plenty of gays in the movies, just never see it because they weren't the focus of the story. could have been quite a few in that cool club/bar obi-wan and anakin went in after the bounty huntress. just don't know because they weren't the focus.

[Tatile]

Judging by this, keep wishing dearie.

 

Disney has the weirdest relationship with the gay community. They're really progressive when it comes to worker's rights and many of their parks host civil ceremonies and gay weddings (and you can use the Princess Package or whatever it is, if you want), but they don't have gay characters in their films. Except maybe that one guy in Mulan.

 

Agen Kolar looks a lot like Republic zabraks to me, and he was at least in revenge of the sith as one of the jedi masters that went to arrest Palpatine after finding out he's Darth Sidious.

 

Not saying there weren't, just that I don't remember them. Chiss, though? I think I'd remember seeing a fine Chiss man gracing the screen.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Tatile

[Seireeni]

Not saying there weren't, just that I don't remember them. Chiss, though? I think I'd remember seeing a fine Chiss man gracing the screen.

 

No chiss I'm afraid, even though the chiss were created before episodes I-III.

[Tatile]

No chiss I'm afraid, even though the chiss were created before episodes I-III.

 

Episode VII should have a nice, half-naked Chiss man for us to oogle. Just because.

[nateslice]

Gay people are a plot hole, as well? Are you just trying to be dismissive and cruel at this point?

 

Now you're just being petty. I know you're smart from your comments in other threads; I'm sure you know that's not what I was saying at all.

 

If we see a lot of gay NPCs here, and then we see no gays in the movies, that's a plot hole. Where did they all go?

 

I also suggested putting a gay character in the new Star Wars movies, to show they do still exist, as this would help to close that plot hole. Was that hateful of me, too?

[Seireeni]

Episode VII should have a nice, half-naked Chiss man for us to oogle. Just because.

 

I'd take a nice chiss male in uniform, too. Extra points if it's General Drask (since they have said that they won't be using Thrawn and Thrass is dead), but that won't happen. But I'm sure the Chiss Ascedancy or Empire of the Hand could provide us a few blue-skinned aliens to stare at.

 

Anyway, I think this is getting off-topic...

[Tatile]

Now you're just being petty. I know you're smart from your comments in other threads; I'm sure you know that's not what I was saying at all.

 

If we see a lot of gay NPCs here, and then we see no gays in the movies, that's a plot hole. Where did they all go?

 

I also suggested putting a gay character in the new Star Wars movies, to show they do still exist, as this would help to close that plot hole. Was that hateful of me, too?

 

It's not a plot hole. The Original Trilogy was made during a time when having gay characters was not acceptable, the Prequels centred around a sexually and romantically repressed religion, in which one of their order defies their tenets in order to pursue a romantic relationship, and that, coupled with his other actions, ultimately cause the fall of the Jedi Order.

 

Just because Senator Amidala doesn't go "And here is the delegation from the Planet of GAY" doesn't mean there aren't gay people in the Star Wars universe. It might just be that non-heterosexuals aren't as oppressed or maligned in the Star Wars universe to warrant their sexuality being of note. Mace Windu wasn't presented as "that black Jedi", after all.

[QwibQwib]

Now you're just being petty. I know you're smart from your comments in other threads; I'm sure you know that's not what I was saying at all.

 

If we see a lot of gay NPCs here, and then we see no gays in the movies, that's a plot hole. Where did they all go?

 

I also suggested putting a gay character in the new Star Wars movies, to show they do still exist, as this would help to close that plot hole. Was that hateful of me, too?

 

The movies don't really give a good cross-section of the Star Wars universe, at least sexuality-wise. As far as I recall, the only characters that explicitly displayed their romantic inclinations in the movies were Anakin, Padme, Han, Leia, Shimi, her husband, Owen, Beru, and Luke. Nine isn't a lot, and they can all be charted on a single family tree.

 

They're also (as far as I recall) all human. Does this mean that non-humans don't engage in romance, just because they're not shown doing so in the movies? No. Same thing should apply to homosexuality. There are TONS of things in the EU that aren't shown in the movies. It wouldn't be a plot hole (as it has more to do with world building), just a discrepancy. And there's a difference between the movies not showing something and George Lucas stating that something categorically doesn't exist.

 

Where did they all go? They might not have gone anywhere. Maybe people in the Star Wars universe just like to avoid PDA.

[QwibQwib]

Just because Senator Amidala doesn't go "And here is the delegation from the Planet of GAY" doesn't mean there aren't gay people in the Star Wars universe.

 

Sorry, I just couldn't help but imagine the Senator addressing a delegation from Makeb

[Tatile]

Sorry, I just couldn't help but imagine the Senator addressing a delegation from Makeb

 

And this is Lord Cytharat: The Only Gay Man In The Universe.

 

[Highborne]

And this is Lord Cytharat: The Only Gay Man In The Universe.

 

 

Whom all of my characters - male or not, straight or not - want as a companion. He can be a STR-based melee tank with a lightsaber, like Lord Scourge on Republic-side.

 

My Sorc wants him because, well, healer AND romance, my Marauder wants him because he's more reliable and interesting than Broonmark, my Hunter wants him because, well, romance, my assassin wants him because she trusts him more than Zash/Khem and my IA wants him because he's a professional - although he doesn't want to ditch anyone for him.

[Tatile]

Whom all of my characters - male or not, straight or not - want as a companion. He can be a STR-based melee tank with a lightsaber, like Lord Scourge on Republic-side.

 

My Sorc wants him because, well, healer AND romance, my Marauder wants him because he's more reliable and interesting than Broonmark, my Hunter wants him because, well, romance, my assassin wants him because she trusts him more than Zash/Khem and my IA wants him because he's a professional - although he doesn't want to ditch anyone for him.

 

I agree that Lord Cytharat is probably the best all-rounder NPC Bioware have done and he should definitely be a companion, with a continued romance for those who want (gay only, of course.)

 

Damn it, Bioware, for once in your development listen to what your players want D:

[Highborne]

I agree that Lord Cytharat is probably the best all-rounder NPC Bioware have done and he should definitely be a companion, with a continued romance for those who want (gay only, of course.)

 

Damn it, Bioware, for once in your development listen to what your players want D:

 

Well, they can't now. Given that I understand the DS choice leaves him dead (of my two DS characters, one took the LS points and the other may when the time comes), they can't exactly make him a companion option anymore now can they?

[Tatile]

Well, they can't now. Given that I understand the DS choice leaves him dead (of my two DS characters, one took the LS points and the other may when the time comes), they can't exactly make him a companion option anymore now can they?

 

Not without a heavy dose of space magic and the people who killed him whining that either a) they can't get him as a companion or b) he's dead and seeing him with someone else is "immersion breaking".

 

Personally I think they can get stuffed. Space Magic FTW.