Decisions have no consequences?

[macumba]

apart from the trooper thing (which isn't really a consequence)

the only thing that has some kind of real impact is

 

 

whether you make or break jaesa wilsaam with the difference of her becoming light or the dark version (--> dark version accepts different gifts and is a romance option while the light version is not)

 

[Rothie]

I used to play a Pirates game (forget which one) that was similar to that. You would fight ships out on the seas and capture them. Once you did you had a choice. You could simply steal all the stuff and let everyone go or you could press some of the captives into service or go all the way to the other side and steal everything and then sink the ship killing everyone aboard. This had long term consequences. If you just stole the stuff then eventually, once you were famous enough, smaller ships would simply surrender. If you killed everyone every single time than every single ship would fight to the very last man even against long odds.

 

That was a very fun game Sid Meier’s Pirates!. My dad bought it, and I played it a lot, though you could only play as a guy and rescue/marry the chic. It was still fun, and yes, I remember always killing the crews and sinking the ships after my fleet hit 15 total. Took my dad telling me why they all fought so hard for me to stop doing it. But hey, I was 6 at the time

[dacentabaal]

Personally ive gone through a toon twice, 1 in LS one in DS full to the brims on both.. all I noticed was a diffrence in game mails I recieved of people I let off/saved etc.. BUT I have heard even though no matter what your decision you can always gain the title for that toon cause its pre set into the game.. The JK class, apparently if you...

 

 

Have way to may DS points over LS points you cant gain the "Master" title at the end of act 3 JK storyline

 

 

however if anyone can clear that up it would be nice

[A_nonymous]

apart from the trooper thing (which isn't really a consequence)

the only thing that has some kind of real impact is

 

 

whether you make or break jaesa wilsaam with the difference of her becoming light or the dark version (--> dark version accepts different gifts and is a romance option while the light version is not)

 

I can go along with that having consequences (albeit minor ones). But is that the only one in the entire game though? I understand the story ending may be similar either way, but still I feel like they could've put some in game consequences in there.

[errant_knight]

There are some consequences in terms of who we have allied with us and what some characters and npcs think of us, but it doesn't directly affect our position in the end. That wouldn't be possible unless they wrote diverging follow up chapters for each character, which would be too unwieldy to manage as the differences would grow exponentially with each chapter.

 

At the same time, I do hope that there are side quests involving some of those choices. These could create events that differed based on ls/ds status or previous interactions that wouldn't have to have any bearing on the main story line. If you're a lightside sith who refused to do sidequests for a certain war criminal like sith repeatedly, there could be an attempt to damage you. If you're a grey jedi who's repeatedly made ruthless choices, there could be a sidequest involving unpleasantness with the council.

 

There are lots of opportunities for things like this in future chapters based on things we did in the first three and I'm really hoping that's something we see. It would make a world of difference in making decisions seem to matter, especially if there was genuine loss or gain. The only problem with this is that people tend to whine greatly if they actually lose something and since there's no reload the developers tend to err on the side of not displeasing the loudest voices.

 

That being said, I wish it was possible to have our decisions affect the main storyline, because my first playthrough as a warrior was extremely intense. I hadn't thought this through and yet realized how impossible to manage that would be and my every decision felt fraught with peril.

Edited December 27, 2012 by errant_knight

[Larce_Apollo]

Your behavior as a Jedi Knight will have a impact at the very end of your class story.

[Blarpped]

Permanent consequences in MMO ? Never gonna happen. You kill 10 rats, 10 rats respawn the next minute.

 

Such is the way of the genre.

 

WoW has been permanently changing the world based on events you participate in for over four years. I know that MMO hipsters hate WoW, so I expect to be told why WoW's technology for it is total crap. It has minor issues, but it's far better than having nothing at all.

[ebado]

You're not going to see gameplay repercussions from your decisions. They had many of these in early testing. Killing companions. Not getting certain titles based on your actions. Stuff like that. Testers whined about it. They were removed.

 

There are plenty of story repercussions (and not just limited to being fully light side or dark side, but specific decisions here and there). But I understand it's easy to ignore or invalidate these just for the sake of the argument, so whatever.

 

Welcome to 2012 (almost 2013), where everybody gets a medal.

[Cailahan]

WoW has been permanently changing the world based on events you participate in for over four years. I know that MMO hipsters hate WoW, so I expect to be told why WoW's technology for it is total crap. It has minor issues, but it's far better than having nothing at all.

 

WoW changes the same for EVERYONE. Mages don't see a different world from Paladins who don't see the world different from Shamans. Everyone sees the same changes no matter what. Also, they only brought in the world changing thing in Wrath of the Lich King and even then it was limited. It took an expansion to completely overhaul the Vanilla game and move the story forward - No phasing used.

 

Also, there used to be consequences in the Beta of the game where you could kill your companions, anger them to the point that they would leave you permanently amongst others but people started doing stupid things and killing their companions without thinking of the consequences and sadly the systems got removed.

 

MMO Players can't handle permanent change well.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Cailahan

[Master-Nala]

Meaningful consequences are an illusion. Even if they exist, they don't. For example, many DS choices are of a nature of having your character do something for greed or avarice. The Republic Belsavis quest line ends:

 

 

In a choice whether to actually free the World Razer (which doesn't take place for a few hundred years) or seal him up.

 

In the case of freeing the World Razer, he sends you to Ilum to get some super powerful Rakata gear. When you get there it's a few sub-50 green pieces.

 

 

But consider if that choice was meaningful. That if you took the DS choice, you got a significantly powerful item (say some Rakata gear) and if you didn't you got a pat on the back for doing the right thing. Well, then the choice is gone just as if it didn't exist. Because then the 'right answer' is to take the DS choice. If the DS choice has counterbalancing negative effects, such as everyone knows what you did and won't work with you, then your character is stuck.

 

People claim to like decisions to have consequences, but in every single instance where I've seen a development team do so, it's come back to bite them. There's next to no upside to the game for having them and it opens you to tons of complaints.

[A_nonymous]

There are some consequences in terms of who we have allied with us and what some characters and npcs think of us, but it doesn't directly affect our position in the end. That wouldn't be possible unless they wrote diverging follow up chapters for each character, which would be too unwieldy to manage as the differences would grow exponentially with each chapter.

 

At the same time, I do hope that there are side quests involving some of those choices. These could create events that differed based on ls/ds status or previous interactions that wouldn't have to have any bearing on the main story line. If you're a lightside sith who refused to do sidequests for a certain war criminal like sith repeatedly, there could be an attempt to damage you. If you're a grey jedi who's repeatedly made ruthless choices, there could be a sidequest involving unpleasantness with the council.

 

There are lots of opportunities for things like this in future chapters based on things we did in the first three and I'm really hoping that's something we see. It would make a world of difference in making decisions seem to matter, especially if there was genuine loss or gain. The only problem with this is that people tend to whine greatly if they actually lose something and since there's no reload the developers tend to err on the side of not displeasing the loudest voices.

 

That being said, I wish it was possible to have our decisions affect the main storyline, because my first playthrough as a warrior was extremely intense. I hadn't thought this through and yet realized how impossible to manage that would be and my every decision felt fraught with peril.

 

They don't necessarily have to make the consequences permanent. Just something like suffering a negative buff in combat would be nice. How do you fix it? Win affection w/that companion.

[Socialist]

Back in Beta, you could kill/miss companions.

 

 

But people whined...

[Lyons_Crest]

It's really not too late for such a thing.... This sort of thing can be dealt with in future updates. I am very supportive of taking responsibility for my actions good or bad. I think it's really amazing actually and never understood why it wouldn't have been implemented from the start?

 

For example:

 

A light Sith, should be able to have access to both Fleets given it's genre / the same should be for Dark Jedi's. In addition to this idea I would love to see my Sith or Jedi kicked out of the Order altogether. I'd like to see people come after him/her for their past, and present actions.

 

On top of this, I don't see why my companions would stick around and help me kill innocent people either, or abide by me helping innocent people if it's not their own way? Which opens the door to some drama, more fights, and especially new Light or Dark side companions in the future.

 

I don't think it's too late honestly for us to see such things in future updates, where our companions turn on us for abusing our ranks, or privileges or just out of disagreement. So in order to gain that new companion perhaps we would lose one first, and of course go through certain missions and quests to gain the trust of our new companion. I agree it doesn't make sense that if I am all Light why I'd travel around with Dark Companions or vice versa?

 

In addition to this: I would very much like to see additional consequences for decision making. Good or bad having different outcomes. I saved so and so and this person heard or saw and showed me the way or gave me something I needed. However cause I killed so and so they wouldn't even talk to me... Stuff like this is not difficult to make.

 

I've also made posts in the past where as I would like to be able to communicate with Imps or Reps, group with them given my affection for light or dark and their own, and guild up with them as well. Again I don't see this as a problem for future updates at all. Bioware and EA will continue to create new content and put what ever into the game that people want to see and most especially what " SELLS " then pleases SUBS lol . So it's all about voicing our thoughts and letting it be known.

[A_nonymous]

I can see companions sticking around. As a Trooper, you're part of a squad. You are ordered to be there. Doesn't mean you have to like it. So you might have a companion who hates you and therefore doesn't work as hard in combat. They don't want to die, but they couldn't care less if you do. So there's a negative buff on that companion. On the other hand you have a companion who will walk through fire for you. So there's a huge positive buff.

[Alec_Fortescue]

 

If you spared Bengel and Praven then you will meet them again on Correlia and they'll be part of the strike team under your command. At one instance you can decide wether you want the team to rescue Correlian civilians in custody which are being kidnapped by Imperials, or you want them to avenge Republic troops and crash into the Imperial soldiers celebration party. Selecting latter will result in the team dying.

Just an example how decisions affect NPCs in your story.

 

However if they were to implement some really heavy consequences then it would be more than reasonable to add story replayfeature, too.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Alec_Fortescue

[Blarpped]

WoW changes the same for EVERYONE. Mages don't see a different world from Paladins who don't see the world different from Shamans. Everyone sees the same changes no matter what. Also, they only brought in the world changing thing in Wrath of the Lich King and even then it was limited. It took an expansion to completely overhaul the Vanilla game and move the story forward - No phasing used.

 

Also, there used to be consequences in the Beta of the game where you could kill your companions, anger them to the point that they would leave you permanently amongst others but people started doing stupid things and killing their companions without thinking of the consequences and sadly the systems got removed.

 

MMO Players can't handle permanent change well.

 

Like I said, phasing has minor issues, but it's much better than what SWTOR offers. I find it sadly ironic that a game that isn't story-driven has more varied quest types and has a more dynamic world than a heavily story focused game. Bioware, the "experts" in video game storytelling, should have understood that a story is far more effective if the gameworld reflects the story.

 

Phasing is a viable solution to let players see the consequences of their actions even if it is limited. Also, WoW has been using this type of thing for four years, which is when Wrath launched. I didn't say that every single quest from 1-80 had phasing.

 

The overall point of my post was that even casual themepark MMO's can have permanent change. The technology exists. It's a proven concept. Sadly, SWTOR will continue to make every quest a, "Go kill/collect 10 animal parts" quest that will have ZERO impact on the gameworld and very little impact on the overall story.

[erei]

Except with the imperial agent, and the SW for 1 companion, your choices doesn't really matter.

[chuixupu]

There are definitely some solid consequences in the Agent story. For instance:

 

 

on Balmorra if you choose to not deactivate the bombs before you bring them in to the terror cell, you get a major guilt trip from everyone about all the innocent lives lost, AND, your buddy who is helping you gets shot right in front of you, where if you choose to deactivate the bombs he will live and go on to have a completely different part in the plot.

 

 

Also

 

 

if you kill all the SIS agents in chapter 2, you'll only have the option at the end to go neutral or join the new Sith Intelligence. If you leave them alive, Ardun Kothe shows up a few times to help you out and you can defect to the SIS and join them in the end.

 

 

on a more minor note:

 

 

if you tell Darth Zhorrid that you only follow orders from Keeper, next time you see her she'll be torturing him in front of you, if you're respectful she won't do that.

 

 

There are several other minor ones that I have to job my memory on.

Edited December 27, 2012 by chuixupu

[A_nonymous]

Do any of those really have long term consequences though? Does the player either suffer or profit based on what decisions he/she makes?

[chuixupu]

How much more can you suffer in a video game other than having your character killed off, which will never happen in an MMO? Seeing your friends die and be tortured because of your actions is pretty harsh, and having a career path altered is pretty significant. We can't yet tell how these things carry over into future expansions.

[Troezar]

You need to go niche for this. Try Eve there are consequences there, harsh ones but the masses can't handle that. The big boys just want to turn a profit quickly which means pandering to those same masses. Make it easy, make it quick and have no consequences. Some people would like life to be like that too but as we know it doesn't work like that ;-)

[VanguardXL]

The bottom line is it's a MMO, not a single-player game. The bottom line in any MMO is 'persistant world'. No mutability, no massive changes from player to player purely due to resources required to do it. Make an IA, get the end, Things Change on a grand scale. Make a new IA, no change at all, because nothing CAN change. It has to be nice, even and semi-generic for everyone. That is the way it has been in MMOs since there have been MMOs, so everyone gets the same gameplay experience.

 

Really, if you want a gameplay experience where your actions have impact and meaning you have to play a single-player game for it. It took them 300 mil to just do the voicework for what story there is. Imagine how much more it would take to do multiple possible endings depending on 50 levels of possible actions, companion relations, etc etc etc, then the almost-garunteed blowback from the playerbase, ie "but player X's IA ending was so much coooooler than player Y's IA ending!"

[SithInitiate]

there are actually plenty of times during your 1-50 journey where choices come back to you. particularly in the trooper story (sorry, not going to spoil it). that being said.. once you reach 50 and your rep with a companion is maxed.. all of that stuff is absolutely meaningless.. your relationship with your companion.. meh, she/he mind as well be a statue on your ship. a relationship u developed with an NPC.. nope, once you are 50 those are gone too and never heard from again.

 

that all being said.. if they would have developed more FPs like BT/Esseles/Teral V.. and made operations like that as well.. i think this issue would be diminished somewhat. unfortunately there arent many FPs like those. especially at 50.

[CosmicKat]

Shoe-horning story and dialog choices into an MMO is the culprit. They simply don't belong in the game and they destroy the "world feel" of the universe.

 

The "chosen one" plotlines make a persistant world an impossibility and without a persistant world, an MMO will never form a community. Terrible games have survived for years based entirely on the strengths of their persistant worlds and communities (SWG for example). TOR is technically a vastly better game than SWG but it is unlikely to match the life of SWG simply because it is not an MMO.

[Socialist]

Shoe-horning story and dialog choices into an MMO is the culprit. They simply don't belong in the game and they destroy the "world feel" of the universe.

 

The "chosen one" plotlines make a persistant world an impossibility and without a persistant world, an MMO will never form a community. Terrible games have survived for years based entirely on the strengths of their persistant worlds and communities (SWG for example). TOR is technically a vastly better game than SWG but it is unlikely to match the life of SWG simply because it is not an MMO.

 

There you go, the reason why this is a flop.

 

Still playing it though, the storylines (aka the KOTOR 3 part of it) are great. When I am done, au revoir.