Story content in the new expansion

[ReordaN]

I really hope they won't just throw away the ideas to continue the class story! And i believe most ppl do want to see new arcs of their class story. I'd really enjoy to see my consulars new adventure! and that's why me and my friend still paying for the subscription.

and I'm not trying to whin its just abandoning class stories will be such a waste.

[Aelther]

This is the beginning of the End I think. They have decided to abandon the best thing about the game, maybe the only truly good thing about the game. Every review and every comment about SWTOR has praised the class story content. Even the harshest critic that sets out to slam the game with as much hate as possible usually starts out with "the class stories are great, but..." So that's the one part that Bioware decides to toss out.

 

Nobody has ever said warzones are the best thing in the game, but we will get more warzones.

Nobody has ever said operations are the best thing in the game, but we will get more operations.

Nobody has ever said anything positive at all about space missions, but we will get more space missions.

Every single person who has ever commented about SWTOR from the biggest fan to the most enraged hater has said the class stories are great, so EA/Bioware are ditching class stories.

 

Incredible. I can only assume EA/Bioware are trying to bring SWTOR to its end as quickly as possible.

 

Well to be fair, people would complain either way. If BioWare would have included class quests in this expansion, then a bunch of End-Game lovers would complain how they are wasting time and money on 'useless voice-overs and crappy stories' instead of fixing bugs and adding more end-game content...

 

So now they promised to give more end game content at the cost of class stories, so other group of people are complaining.

 

And it will be like this all the time. You give something to 1 group, then the other will complain. BioWare tried to appeal to everyone, but it is impossible and so they have failed. You either appeal to your true fans who want story and accept that most hardcore MMO gamers will leave (like it happened at the launch), or betray your old-school fans and cater to the needs of END-Game grinders making SWTOR just another generic MMO.

 

Sure there are some people, who enjoy both levelling alts for stories and doing end-game. I am myself doing Hard-mode TFB and Nightmare EC each week and level alts for story and will support the game for as long as it's alive, but there's very few of us. Most people either level a lot of alts or they grind end-game, so BioWare will never please everyone.

 

But I'd still sacrifice all the end-game stuff for more class stories.

[Glower]

Hi everyone - I asked Jeff Hickman for some clarification for you on whether Makeb will feature an extension of class stories. Here's the info:

 

"The intent for Rise of the Hutt Cartel is to continue your character's story, but envisioned as part of the ongoing struggle of the Empire vs. the Republic. There are lots of great moments for you to enjoy, and it will be shared as two clear storylines. No class specific storylines are included, though I know you guys are going to love what RotHC has to offer."

 

We hope this helps clarify!

 

Lol, so one storyline for reps and another for imps? My alts are doomed... BORING!

Edited December 19, 2012 by Glower

[VelvetSanity]

Just to throw my 2 credits in: there are several things that draw me to a game: good story, places to explore, and a good setting (like Star Wars). The one that gets me most is having options for how my character develops (there's a reason I'm a Pre-CU SWG refugee).

 

I have *never* even come close to this oh-so-important "endgame" thing people keep mentioning. Heck, I don't even know what it is, other than that it apparently involves PvP (which has never interested me in the least).

 

I quit playing Everquest after 20+ levels of mindless grindkill-grindkill-grindkill. I quit WoW (and almost every other game I've tried) for the same reason. I played SWG far longer than any other game, and only quit that because they tried to turn it into WoW, and completely ruined everything I loved about the game.

 

I play TOR largely for the class stories. And because I enjoyed the KotOR games, and TOR reminds me of them.

 

Whether I continue playing TOR after they finally release actual info about RotHC remains to be seen...

[finalape]

I stand up for this game for its great pvp and Class Story content. I have to echo the dismay of others on this thread, not continuing the Class stories will be a huge detriment to the longevity of this game. Lots of people who remain faithful to the game have done so through alts and the Class Stories.

 

The other unfortuante thing that will cause backlash (when it gets outside of this thread) is when they advertise this expansion as expanding Class Stories, when what they are really doing it only expanding a planet story.

[Jumajin]

Isn't that the guy who told us we'd just die when we saw the amazing life day speeder? Because I don't trust him anymore.

 

Oh hell, just follow the quotes people have posted from him in another thread regarding the Cartel market, and how he flipped from no Purples there to (now) they view both the Cartel Market AND playing the game as viable options to obtaining gear, and neither method is really above the other (I am paraphrasing here, of course).

 

Hickman, and what he managed to do over at Warhammer Online . . .

 

No, I wouldn't trust the guy. He rates up there with John Smedley and Blackman. There is a reason the forum joke is now: The Hickman Zone, where MMOs go to die.

[Darth_Romana]

I'd prefer my character to be done with his rise to power quest line and instead focus on the actual story happening in the galaxy right now. This is a good direction, imo. A more Mass Effect style of storytelling is welcomed. You never had a class specific story in that game and look how well it did.

 

Didn't stop me from completing Mass Effect twice. Many different endings, you don't know how this story line will play out. I'll do it. Did it stop me from leveling 12 alts to 80 in WoW? Same quests, same story? Nope. You should be fortunate to have a story at all in this game, it is an mmo and mmos usually do not support expansive stories like this one.

 

The main story of Mass Effect was the equivalent of class specific content in TOR. And a move in a Mass Effect direction would mean the expansion of class content. But then you can't and shouldn't compare TOR with Mass Effect.

[Gwence]

8 unique class story quests means bringing in all those voice actors not only for the character but all the supplemental characters as well and have them sit in studio for weeks voicing out every possible voice option (which is extensive in this game), that being just the voice part of it.

 

thats pretty cost heavy, you'd probably be spending $40 on this expansion instead of $10 if there were class story arcs added.

 

 

 

and who gives a crap about same gender romance, I mean really, there's like a million other things that could be fixed or implemented that should take precedent.

[atduncan]

 

and who gives a crap about same gender romance, I mean really, there's like a million other things that could be fixed or implemented that should take precedent.

 

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[darklordpotter]

You could say the same thing about PVP right. I mean I never play PvP so obviously they should prioritise the things I care about - like class story and free roaming space.

 

But I wouldn't because that would be telling other people what they consider important in a fictional world.

[Lent_San]

You could say the same thing about PVP right. I mean I never play PvP so obviously they should prioritise the things I care about - like class story and free roaming space.

But I wouldn't because that would be telling other people what they consider important in a fictional world.

 

Some people unfortunately lack the ability to understand this very simple fact.

 

It's a role-playing game, you know. A fictional fantasy world.

 

We all have different things we'd like to see in there.

 

But you won't ever see me post in other people's threads, telling them how insignificant their wishes are.

 

It's really very childish.

[Shoogli]

Can you recall any planet quests story?

They were ok but certanly incomparable to the class stories, imo.

 

There are many I can recall and that I found were good. There is also a big picture in many of those planets that many people have missed : most are interwined between Republic and Empire, and when you do one side after the other : many times you get a chuckle or an "oh ha !" moment.

 

- Tatooine Czerka one, even though I'm never a fan of EUish all things Rakata, I enjoyed a lot.

- Taris Empire one and the relationship with Tana Vesh is class-story level quality. (and is even better if you've done it as republic beforehand).

- Empire player that have been raiding in Asation and are only trying republic now will "understand" on Coruscant why the Grees and more...

- If you do Balmorra on Empire first then on Republic : it's a mega story arc that is really really cool.

- I liked Quesh one a ton as well.

- Alderande I don't like the planet, but that's a matter of taste, but there were many things on the story arc that was cool.

- Voss was interresting.

- Belsavis as well.

 

It's a matter of taste, and some planet story arcs we'll like some others we won't, but really some were nice.

 

Don't get me wrong, I prefer class story, but really on some of those planets some planet arcs really felt it was flowing well with my character story and it looked like it was an integrated part of my character story.

 

And yes, I too am disapointed we don't get class specific stories in the first expansion, what am just saying is that just because we prefer something doesn't mean the rest is trash.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Shoogli

[Sverrir]

8 unique class story quests means bringing in all those voice actors not only for the character but all the supplemental characters as well and have them sit in studio for weeks voicing out every possible voice option (which is extensive in this game), that being just the voice part of it.

 

thats pretty cost heavy, you'd probably be spending $40 on this expansion instead of $10 if there were class story arcs added.

 

 

 

and who gives a crap about same gender romance, I mean really, there's like a million other things that could be fixed or implemented that should take precedent.

I think everyone realises that it is very expensive but Bioware also knew that when they started developing this game but after it launched they focused to much on the wrong things and with a decline in subscription they only dug them self deeper. I just hope they get back on track again.

I agree that they should not focus on same gender romance that is hardly a priority thing.

[_Darkstar]

I'm 100% sure that posted this last month and did a live interview where the lead dev said class stories were too expensive to continue, but if the game picks back up and continues to be successful they could return in the future.

 

I don't have a problem with that, spend the money you do have on improving and doing what you can.

 

However bioware shot themselves in the foot with the voice acting. The player characters should of had all generic responses, like sports games to have the voice actions record thousands of generic responses. And just have every other va none generic. So they only have to bring in a few actors for new content instead of bringing in all 8 voice actor back along with garza, satele Shan ect every time which cost money. Bioware should of talked to the ea sports studio.

Bioware have said many times that the actors are on contract, so surely that means they get paid either way?

 

I think the actual animation might be the expensive part, because they have to do 8 times the work, so 8 times the cost.

 

The problem with only improving doing what you can means that the people waiting for story will leave, yet if they just spent that extra and did the story they would probably see people coming back, just to see what the story is like, meaning at least $20 per returning player, even if they don't stick around. Spend money to make money and all that, just do it properly and sensibly.

 

But yes they certainly shot themselves in the foot by making a game that was expensive to expand on, not a clever idea in a game where the business model is to constantly expand...

 

thats pretty cost heavy, you'd probably be spending $40 on this expansion instead of $10 if there were class story arcs added.

I would much prefer $40 on something I want than $10 on something I don't. This logic reminds me of my mother who comes home from shopping with a load of stuff she doesn't really want, but at least she saved money buying it because it was half price ...

Edited December 19, 2012 by _Darkstar

[Variden]

Bioware have said many times that the actors are on contract, so surely that means they get paid either way?

 

The last time I saw this mentioned was back in January of this year, (2012), and that was casually based on what was said pre launch. I wouldnt put too much credence on this being the case any longer. The game has shifted priorities, and has been headed down a different course than what the original devs had intended, for some time now.

 

As for my two creds on the subject at hand...its what I and many here have been saying for sometime now. Much to the chagrin of many of the faithful/willfully blind drones on these forums. There simply isnt enough of a budget remaining for not only side quest VO's, (Makeb), but also 8 individually fully voiced over class stories. Unless EA/ware are currently in possession of some sort of magical money tree, I dont see how they can possibly continue down that path. Given their current financial constraints, (this game is NOT a priority to EA, period.)

 

We might indeed see a continuation of personal story arcs re-introduced at some point, however, I fully expect them to be fully TEXT based. So time to work on those reading comprehension skills kiddies.

 

Perhaps the reason that no one has ever attempted a fully Voiced Over MMO before, was simply because, its simply not sustainable nor cost efficient/effective to do so for any extended period of time, (which MMO's are all about btw...extended, sustainable periods of game play/time.)

Edited December 19, 2012 by Variden

[Gwence]

I would much prefer $40 on something I want than $10 on something I don't. This logic reminds me of my mother who comes home from shopping with a load of stuff she doesn't really want, but at least she saved money buying it because it was half price ...

 

oh I agree with you, I was just kinda saying you get what you pay for. People are wanting all this stuff from a $10 add on/expansion, not very realistic.

[Urael]

Hi everyone - I asked Jeff Hickman for some clarification for you on whether Makeb will feature an extension of class stories. Here's the info:

 

"The intent for Rise of the Hutt Cartel is to continue your character's story, but envisioned as part of the ongoing struggle of the Empire vs. the Republic. There are lots of great moments for you to enjoy, and it will be shared as two clear storylines. No class specific storylines are included, though I know you guys are going to love what RotHC has to offer."

 

We hope this helps clarify!

 

The class stories were the draw for me for SWTOR. This is disapointing. If you continue in this direction you will loose me and I am sure many others. Alts (one of the things you said the game was designed for ) will be just a grind like any other game if there is no continuation in personal storyline. If this is going to be the case going forward and NOT just for this expansion then there is no longer any reason for me to continue to support SWTOR. The mechanics of your game are substandard compared to other games. The story was the only thing keeping me here. I end game in other more established MMORPGs because this product is not up to par with the other AAA titles. Again no story means a loss of my sub. Please rethink this strategy. I am sure there are more than just myself that feel this way.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Urael

[Variden]

The class stories were the draw for me for SWTOR. This is disapointing. If you continue in this direction you will loose me and I am sure many others. Alts (one of the things you said the game was designed for ) will be just a grind like any other game if there is no continuation in personal storyline. If this is going to be the case going forward and NOT just for this expansion then there is no longer any reason for me to continue to support SWTOR. The mechanics of your game are substandard compared to other games. The story was the only thing keeping me here. I end game in other more established MMORPGs because this product is not up to par with the other AAA titles. Again no story means a loss of my sub. Please rethink this strategy. I am sure there are more than just myself that feel this way.

 

Its maddening how this new direction completely flies in the face of the whole "create more alts" mantra that this game previously encouraged in order to build up its legacy" system.

 

Who, in their right mind, is gonna roll 6+ alts through the exact same content, for nothing more than the satisfaction of saying they did so.

 

Honestly, even if I do buy into this, I only see myself choosing one toon to do so, (well, maybe two, IMP-REP), but thats it. Even so, its was always the personal story arcs that pushed me further, that encouraged me to slog through, quite frankly, boring theme park status quo quests. I doubt my level of interest in Makeb will ever come close to what it was when I first leveled a toon in this game, thanks in large part to no interesting personal aspect or PoV to be found.

 

The fact is, if you take away the personal story aspect of this game out of the equation, what you're left is, is a very sub par MMO. Heck, take away VO's alltogether, and you have even less than that.

 

It seems even the heads at EAware cant decide on a clear direction for this game anymore.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Variden

[Lent_San]

People unsub, have unsubbed, continue to unsub over a variety of reasons.

 

Some unsub for lack of PvP, some unsub for lack of story content... which includes SGR content. Content that was promised and claimed to be in the works more than a year ago.

 

The end result is the same. People unsub because content they wanted is not how they wanted it. Or not even in in the first place.

 

So your point, saying that developing content costs too much money, when it actually costs them money already for not having it in or having underdeveloped it, is kind of illogical.

[Urael]

So your point, saying that developing content costs too much money, when it actually costs them money already for not having it in or having underdeveloped it, is kind of illogical.

 

Logic has never been in force here (see what I did there) unless it's circular logic.

[The_Kaleesh]

I just wanted to share that I'm very excited about this expansion. I'm usually not active on game forums since they tend to attract mainly people with negative opinions.

I hope afterwards Bioware get the hang of expansions, and keep them coming! I trust they will eventually expand class stories, I rather have them figure that out for a while instead of them rushing such a crucial thing.

[Variden]

People unsub, have unsubbed, continue to unsub over a variety of reasons.

 

Some unsub for lack of PvP, some unsub for lack of story content... which includes SGR content. Content that was promised and claimed to be in the works more than a year ago.

 

The end result is the same. People unsub because content they wanted is not how they wanted it. Or not even in in the first place.

 

So your point, saying that developing content costs too much money, when it actually costs them money already for not having it in or having underdeveloped it, is kind of illogical.

 

How many would unsub due to a lack of PvP.

 

How many would unsub due to a lack of general story content.

 

How many would unsub due to a lack of SGR content.

 

Tell me, which of these would cause a greater dent in player populations? When you can honestly answer this question, then you'll have your answer. You'll finally see this through EAwares eyes. This is a business, first and foremost. Losses are inevidable, however, some losses, one can live with, while others, not so much.

 

Needs > Wants.

 

BTW, living on promises made by employees that no longer have any say whatsoever in the day to day operations of this game or company, or for that matter, that are no longer employed by said company, epitomizes lack of logic.

 

Just sayin'.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Variden

[Lent_San]

How many would unsub due to a lack of PvP.

How many would unsub due to a lack of general story content.

How many would unsub due to a lack of SGR content.

Tell me, which of these would cause a greater dent in player populations?

You tell me. I'm looking forward to reading numbers and specifics here, since you seem to be having your hands on internal BW demography data that no-one else is allowed to see.

 

BTW, living on promises made by employees that no longer have any say whatsoever in the day to day operations of this game or company, or for that matter, that are no longer employed by said company, epitomizes lack of logic.

Just sayin'.

Which is why, my dear friend, I have used this very thread to ask for an answer on whether SGRAs are still coming, together with Makeb, as was told us earlier when things were brighter and the sun was still shining.

 

After I've gotten my answer, I can finally make an informed decision on whether I will leave or stay.

 

No SGRA, no sub from me. Simple as that.

 

You can have all those warzones for yourself then.

[Stradlin]

Has there ever been any interviews from any of the bazillion VA's who worked on TOR? Have any of them said anything regarding amount of work they may or may not have done recently? Edited December 19, 2012 by Stradlin

[Variden]

You tell me. I'm looking forward to reading numbers and specifics here, since you seem to be having your hands on internal BW demography data that no-one else is allowed to see.

 

Oh come now, you can certaintly make a reasonable assumption based on basic common sense. You can base your theory on relative gaming experiences throughout your gaming life.

 

This is my 5th MMO in the last 9 years. Prior to that, I'd been gaming since the initial Atari VCS days. One tends to develop a certain...feel...for what standard gamers preferences are over such a period of time. Being, after all, a standard gamer myself.

 

One can come to a reasonable conclusion, for example, when faced with a question regarding what players want, and what players need.

 

Its all common sense, one does not need inside track info, nor be proficient in the Force to understand such things.

 

This said, I have no interest in trying to convince you of anything. I'm simply asking that players see these things from all PoV's. There are always more than just 2.