What is the purpose of a sub?

[_Darkstar]

I consider seasonal items being only on the Cartel Market (unlike any other MMORPG), and being their at extortionate prices seemingly designed to make subscribers buy extra coins if they want them, being ripped off, yes.

 

I have no issue with it being called that, it is what it is.

You have absolutely no need for the seasonal items. They are additional and if you want them you should pay. I don't want them and so don't want my sub to pay for them, you do want them so put your hand in your pocket to finance their creation.

 

The sub should allow you access to all game content (IE: If there was a holiday event), but not all items.

 

Remind me why we are paying for Makeb then? The single planet "expansion" with no story continuation?

I thought it was free to subs?

[Vandicus]

Remind me why we are paying for Makeb then? The single planet "expansion" with no story continuation?

 

Source?

 

Also Altrimentus, f2p hybrid models are a wonderful boon for churn in MMOs. The other major hybrid f2p models rely on the f2p system to increase subscriptions as well(which they did and still do).

[_Darkstar]

Oh boy this ship is really going to sink then . If the main reason to subscribe is to avoid those annoying restrictions then don't you think it's a bit dumb to have a F2P system at all?

The f2p system is designed for those who are new to the game (To entice them into a sub) and for those who are not willing to pay the sub, for example the really casual players. The quality of life items (Extra storage and UI mods etc) are very reasonably priced to tempt these people into paying 'something' but also not so reasonable that the sub stops looking good value.

 

The idea is that you play for free, miss feature x, then buy it on an impulse because it is reasonably cheap. You then get several more impulses until you realise that you are almost paying the full sub price, then you start feeling like the sub is good value and you start to sub.

 

The expensive items are fluff and not needed but they appeal to the collectors and those with too much money (Or those who haven't learned the value of money yet and whose parents don't guard the credit card well enough) and are priced at a point where subs can wait and get things, but the impatient won't wait and will pay more.

 

From what I can see it looks like it will work very well. Yes from a consumer point of view you may want more value, but I can see them making a good profit from the direction they have taken.

[Damask_Rose]

If the holiday items are too expensive they won't sell well and will either get discounted or similar items in the future will cost less. The cash shop is still very new and they are testing the market.

[TheBBP]

IMHO, if you are going to play the game, you are only hurting yourself by not subbing.

[Guinnessmonkey]

Oh boy this ship is really going to sink then . If the main reason to subscribe is to avoid those annoying restrictions then don't you think it's a bit dumb to have a F2P system at all? Think months ago. Months ago the game was losing subscribers at a pace of tens to hundreds of thousands every month. If a new player wanted to be paying for a subscription don't think you they all would've done it months ago??

If people were despising paying $15 a month in the past, let's not fool ourselves and believe for a second that new players will automatically fork over $100+ to be able to have SOME stuff.

Since when do you need to "fork over $100+" to do basic stuff? If you're not that into SWTOR (or, like some of my friends, your schedule is such that you never feel like you get your money's worth when you get an MMO subscription, as sometimes you barely get any playtime all month) then you're not likely to be the kind of person to spend a ton of cash on virtual clothing. Either way, why not have the option to only have the basics so that you can play through the class story? If you're really not into the MMO thing, will you really miss crafting, end-game, PvP, etc? Prolly not.

 

I imagine most FtP players will end up spending at least one month's worth of subscription in the little add-ons (hiding head slot, action bars, etc.) If they find that they're spending a ton of time playing SWTOR, maybe they'll sub. If not, then they probably shouldn't.

 

And remember, not everyone is so OCD that they're willing to spend $100 to make their companions outfit match better or whatever. I've got a friend who will be coming back now that the game is FtP (was in the "crazy schedule" category; he always liked the game). I doubt he'll spend more than $10 in cartel add-ons, but he'll get to finally enjoy the story for the game he bought back at launch.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Guinnessmonkey

[Fornix]

I see your point there, but yet there are some things that are only offered on the shop. For example that new speeder with lights. Why should I have to spend cartel coins on that when I already pay 14.99 a month? Should I not get that anyways just because I paid for my monthly sub?

 

You don't have to, just purchase it on GTN with credits. That's what I did.

 

The sub offers unlimited access to FP's, Ops, WZ's and space missions. That for one is more expensive already if you use just the cartel shop. The rest? You may just as well purchase on GTN from players selling.

[Projawa]

F2P is there to compel new people to try the game in the hopes that decide to stick around with a sub or at least buy a lot of things on the market. I know some people who tried out F2P, bought some unlocks and play on/off with weekly passes as their schedule allows. This is a win for EA as otherwise they would not have gotten any $ from these people. I also know several subscribers who've spent hundreds of $ on cartel coins to buy those cartel packs. Another big win for EA.

 

As a subscriber who refuses to buy cartel coins, I think we should get more CC allowances and more items on the shop should be free for us but it's not a big deal.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Projawa

[Ezrat]

Take a look at the cost of a sub. Then take a look at what it would cost to get everything offered in a sub on the Cartel Market. The sub is the package deal.

 

There is no way to get all of what is offered in the sub with coins. Even if you unlock everything, you will still be gimped in several ways. Here is what I discovered:

 

• Less deployable crew members for skills.
  
• No crafting queue
  
• No lockboxes from quests.
  
• LEss XP (you can get consumable bonuses but not unlock fully)
  
• Lower credit cap (no unlock available)
  
• Limits to QT, no Fleet Pass.
  
• Limits to Space missions, WZ, OPS, as well as limited loot drops in FPs
  
• Limited field rezes (which will annoy the crap out of other players if you die under the mob)
  

 

That is all that I noticed from checking out "Preferred" status prior to resubbing. There is potentially more. Several of these items are not even mentioned in any FAQs regarding F2P. I find that frustrating. At least be up front about how restricted players will be.

[Urael]

That is all that I noticed from checking out "Preferred" status prior to resubbing. There is potentially more. Several of these items are not even mentioned in any FAQs regarding F2P. I find that frustrating. At least be up front about how restricted players will be.

 

See my response this thread about the irony of EAwares Freemium model.

 

I will toss this out for those that say that they don't have time to play as they would like to pay $15 for a subscription.

 

If you ONLY have 1hr a day to play and pay $15 a month, you only pay $0.50 a day to play that hour.

 

If you bought a coffee is some of the more popular coffee barns you can pay up to $5 for that cup of coffee. That is 10.5 hrs of SWTOR play if you are in the 1hr a day catagory.

 

The more you play the less per hour cost for playing.

 

Playing a subscription, even if you don't have that much time to play, in the end is the better value. Oh and you can cut out expensive coffees, soda, etc. and have enought to cover $15 a month.

 

Just sayin'.

[chuixupu]

I see your point there, but yet there are some things that are only offered on the shop. For example that new speeder with lights. Why should I have to spend cartel coins on that when I already pay 14.99 a month? Should I not get that anyways just because I paid for my monthly sub?

 

Even games that aren't Free to Play have items that you can't obtain in game, though.

 

http://us.blizzard.com/store/browse.xml?f=c:5

 

Whether you want to sub in the game or not is up to the individual, if you're someone who wants to do a lot of warzones and operations, then subbing is by far the best option. If you just want to level casually, it's probably not the best option.

Edited December 13, 2012 by chuixupu

[Atrimentus]

Source?

 

Also Altrimentus, f2p hybrid models are a wonderful boon for churn in MMOs. The other major hybrid f2p models rely on the f2p system to increase subscriptions as well(which they did and still do).

 

Unlike those other MMOs, this game has been shown to struggle to keep subscribers since it came out but nope, EA/Bioware wanted to be picky and designed a F2P system that is quite terrible, alienating and overall it turns off a lot of potential new players. If nothing is changed then this game will go back to struggling to maintain subscribers and within 2-3 months the F2P hype for this game will have lost steam so you'll be getting even less new players. I'm DEFINITELY not feeling very confident about the long-term prospects which is why I've stopped buying any more coins. It makes me question if I even want to continue supporting a game that will eventually go down because of a company that clearly has learned absolutely nothing the past few months.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Atrimentus

[tzipidamus]

A subscription is effectively a bulk discount on feature unlocks plus a coin stipend.

[Spartanik]

No. It's a cosmetic item not required for gameplay. And the revenue of those transactions goes toward producing new content for the game.

We hope.

[Ezrat]

See my response this thread about the irony of EAwares Freemium model.

 

I will toss this out for those that say that they don't have time to play as they would like to pay $15 for a subscription.

 

If you ONLY have 1hr a day to play and pay $15 a month, you only pay $0.50 a day to play that hour.

 

If you bought a coffee is some of the more popular coffee barns you can pay up to $5 for that cup of coffee. That is 10.5 hrs of SWTOR play if you are in the 1hr a day catagory.

 

The more you play the less per hour cost for playing.

 

Playing a subscription, even if you don't have that much time to play, in the end is the better value. Oh and you can cut out expensive coffees, soda, etc. and have enought to cover $15 a month.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Oh don't get me wrong. I have no issues paying to play. I enjoy this game enough to do so. I just wish they would be more up front about what you don't get by not being a sub. One would think unlocking the crew skills would give you them as a sub, but instead you get three crew skills, one less deployable companion than a sub, and no crafting queue. Not the end of the world, but really frustrating when you unlock it and you are still somewhat restricted.

 

I think there needs to be more tweaking before this system will be ideal. I'll keep subbing because I hate being restricted.

[Urael]

Oh don't get me wrong. I have no issues paying to play. I enjoy this game enough to do so. I just wish they would be more up front about what you don't get by not being a sub. One would think unlocking the crew skills would give you them as a sub, but instead you get three crew skills, one less deployable companion than a sub, and no crafting queue. Not the end of the world, but really frustrating when you unlock it and you are still somewhat restricted.

 

I think there needs to be more tweaking before this system will be ideal. I'll keep subbing because I hate being restricted.

 

I was ruminating in general about the cost of a subscription vs. time vs. "other entertainments".

 

Intended or not it's currenlty the better value to stay subbed. I agree they have not been as clear as they should be about what exactly each tier of thier model entails. But, it seems clear that the intent is to get you to subscribe. This is ironic for reasons I stated previously in this thread.

[Atrimentus]

The f2p system is designed for those who are new to the game (To entice them into a sub) and for those who are not willing to pay the sub, for example the really casual players. The quality of life items (Extra storage and UI mods etc) are very reasonably priced to tempt these people into paying 'something' but also not so reasonable that the sub stops looking good value.

 

The idea is that you play for free, miss feature x, then buy it on an impulse because it is reasonably cheap. You then get several more impulses until you realise that you are almost paying the full sub price, then you start feeling like the sub is good value and you start to sub.

 

The expensive items are fluff and not needed but they appeal to the collectors and those with too much money (Or those who haven't learned the value of money yet and whose parents don't guard the credit card well enough) and are priced at a point where subs can wait and get things, but the impatient won't wait and will pay more.

 

From what I can see it looks like it will work very well. Yes from a consumer point of view you may want more value, but I can see them making a good profit from the direction they have taken.

 

We've already seen the backlash this F2P has received. Right from the start it's nickle and diming the very people the future of this game depends on. The moment you create your first character the game is all up on your face telling you you can't have this or that and that you have to subscribe to get it or buy coins. If I hadn't subscribed to this game I would've stop playing it altogether a couple of weeks ago. There's new people who will stop after finishing one story. There's new people who aren't even bothering to try this game based solely on the punishing F2P system. The list goes on and on but my point is that behind every new player's reason for not continuing the journey or not starting it at all is the F2P system. Right now there's people like me who have joined the game because of the new attention the game has received due to going F2P but soon all of that will fade away and once again, the game will start hemorrhaging more players than it gets in like it was doing months ago.

 

They're making profit now... for the short-term. But just watch if they do nothing about tweaking the system.

 

I'm not saying they should give everything away because there is quite a few things I agree, but I feel that new players would be more comfortable with chipping in money if it didn't mean they first have to pay for the bare essentials in an MMO - like cargo access, crew skills, inventory, item equipping, quickbars, revives. Some players might even pay for piloting training so they get it faster (don't underestimate how better it feels to know you have the option of waiting or paying to get something faster as oppossed to having no option but pay). To make up for all that they should work at putting more items in the cartel market to encourage these people to buy coins. Of course they should priced reasonably because few people already consider a 1200 CC recolored set to be worth the coins.

 

I'm probably gonna get flamed for saying F2P people (or Preferred) should get more but whatever. If nothing is done you'll remember this post in a couple of months.

[JacenHallis]

The moment you create your first character the game is all up on your face telling you you can't have this or that and that you have to subscribe to get it or buy coins.

DDO does the same thing. "What do you mean I can't make a half-elf favored soul? I have to buy that race and class?" "What do you mean, I can't go into the Sewers? I have to buy that dungeon?"

[Thehellfire]

With the new cartel coins and the items on it, what is the purpose? I thought that all the stuff on the cartel shop the people who paid monthly would get automatically, however that is not the case. Yes, we get 500 coins a moth or 600 depending on if you have a security key but why should I keep my sub? BioWare keeps putting this stuff on the cartel shop for people to buy but why should I not get this stuff free considering I am paying 14.99 a month and have been since day one?

Can we get a dev to answer this?

 

The purpose of the sub is so they can rip you off for sub plus the cash shop

[Urael]

The purpose of the sub is so they can rip you off for sub plus the cash shop

 

Indeed. But, why sugar coat it?

Edited December 13, 2012 by Urael

[beddbasp]

I agree with you Atrimentus.

 

I started as a f2p just a couple weeks ago, but felt very pushed to sub (which i have).

I'd be very curious to know how many people finish a class story strictly f2p ... because that's an extreme uphill battle.

[Goretzu]

You have absolutely no need for the seasonal items. They are additional and if you want them you should pay. I don't want them and so don't want my sub to pay for them, you do want them so put your hand in your pocket to finance their creation.

 

The sub should allow you access to all game content (IE: If there was a holiday event), but not all items.

 

Again you have no "need" of anything in SWTOR, including to play SWTOR.

 

That is completely beside the point of price gouging of "event" items by "limited time" (rather than limited supply).

 

That is wrong and remains wrong in principle whether I buy any or not.

[Arkerus]

With the new cartel coins and the items on it, what is the purpose? I thought that all the stuff on the cartel shop the people who paid monthly would get automatically, however that is not the case. Yes, we get 500 coins a moth or 600 depending on if you have a security key but why should I keep my sub? BioWare keeps putting this stuff on the cartel shop for people to buy but why should I not get this stuff free considering I am paying 14.99 a month and have been since day one?

Can we get a dev to answer this?

 

Your sub provides you access to everything in the game without having to buy a weekly pass. You also have access to any new content right away. There will be new speeders, armor sets, items available only in game and not on the cartel store.

 

Think of the cartel market as a completely separate feature. There are a lot of fluff and convenience items there. They are usually store specific.

 

Don't forget, all cartel items can be sold on the GTN. You don't have to buy anything on the cartel store as long as players are selling it on the GTN.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Arkerus

[MiraniSedai]

With the new cartel coins and the items on it, what is the purpose? I thought that all the stuff on the cartel shop the people who paid monthly would get automatically, however that is not the case. Yes, we get 500 coins a moth or 600 depending on if you have a security key but why should I keep my sub? BioWare keeps putting this stuff on the cartel shop for people to buy but why should I not get this stuff free considering I am paying 14.99 a month and have been since day one?

Can we get a dev to answer this?

 

In my case it removes the credit cap and lets me buy some unlocks and things for credits instead of CC. Since I refuse to give game companys financial information and I can pay for a sub with time cards. I sub.

[Goretzu]

Your sub provides you access to everything in the game without having to buy a weekly pass. You also have access to any new content right away. There will be new speeders, armor sets, items available only in game and not on the cartel store.

 

Think of the cartel market as a completely separate feature. There are a lot of fluff and convenience items there. They are usually store specific.

 

Don't forget, all cartel items can be sold on the GTN. You don't have to buy anything on the cartel store as long as players are selling it on the GTN.

 

 

Ship upgrades are NOT "fluff" or "convinence" they are core endgame to the space game and help in gearing up for the ground game too.