We want Duel Spec!

[Mazikeen]

when u change fro dps to tank, go to UI and load your tank UI in your specific char

my UI setups in each char have the char name and the spec

example: kissakias-dps-pve kissakias-tank-pve e.t.c.

 

That saves the base UI template, it has nothing to do with the abilities in said hotbar slots

[Mazikeen]

I'd personally be keeping all my guys single-role and single-spec, and last thing I'd want is someone giving me hell because "why don't you have stuff for BOTH roles!?!?

 

If you catch Hell then you need a new bloody guild. Players that can successfully play both roles, however, are highly desirable and will get more invites more often. The real drawback to dual spec is the loot issue, but that is largely social. You roll for what you went in as (or declared at the start of the raid) and pick up the unwanted loot for your other spec.

[Calsetes]

If you catch Hell then you need a new bloody guild. Players that can successfully play both roles, however, are highly desirable and will get more invites more often. The real drawback to dual spec is the loot issue, but that is largely social. You roll for what you went in as (or declared at the start of the raid) and pick up the unwanted loot for your other spec.

 

Nah, not talking about from a guild standpoint - the guys I'm with now seem pretty cool and understanding (hell, they're an altaholic-based guild, so I'm sure quite a few of them would have the same mindset as me and have single-purpose characters.) I just mean with pickup groups or something like PvP where it throws you into a team. If I ever use Groupfinder and get into a group with my Combat-spec Sentinel, I don't want some guy going "DOOD! US UR WTCHMN SPEC DOOD!" and then boot me thirty seconds later when I say I'm a combat-spec, and don't use Watchman.

[HelinCarnate]

when u change fro dps to tank, go to UI and load your tank UI in your specific char

my UI setups in each char have the char name and the spec

example: kissakias-dps-pve kissakias-tank-pve e.t.c.

 

Yes, and then the buttons are still in the wrong place. Every time you respec, the new powers for that tree fall in the next open slot. Most of the time that is not the place you want that button to be. We are all aware of the work arounds. There is no need to beat this dead horse. Dual spec would be a huge QOL improvement for many of us that like to change roles as needed.

[Mazikeen]

Nah, not talking about from a guild standpoint - the guys I'm with now seem pretty cool and understanding (hell, they're an altaholic-based guild, so I'm sure quite a few of them would have the same mindset as me and have single-purpose characters.) I just mean with pickup groups or something like PvP where it throws you into a team. If I ever use Groupfinder and get into a group with my Combat-spec Sentinel, I don't want some guy going "DOOD! US UR WTCHMN SPEC DOOD!" and then boot me thirty seconds later when I say I'm a combat-spec, and don't use Watchman.

 

Tools will be tools. This is another social issue. Write down the name of the player and smear them on the server. Sounds harsh, but it's what we did in EQ1 and I'll tell you what, if you compare EQ1 pre-WoW to WoW post-BC you see two completely different communities. If the server is honest about their complaints (not smearing people just because you don't like them) and everyone follows the same rules, then things would never get out of hand. Ever.

[chuixupu]

Actually, if they just gave us the ability to save our hotbars and gear sets exactly how we want them, abilities and all, then I'd say we're OK with the field respec option. People who change specs all the time typically know from memory where to plug their talents in. However, there really isn't any reason not to have dual/multispec at this point, I feel like the field respec + no cost to do it is kind of a quick bandaid.

[psandak]

Am I one of the few who doesn't want or see the need for a dual-spec? I mean, if I'm making my character a tank, I plan on them being a tank, period. If I'm making my character a healer, then I plan on them being a healer - period. If I'm making a character a DPS, then I'm making them a DPS - period. I don't see the point to swapping specs all the time - I think it's better to pick a spec and stick with it to learn all the little nuances of it.

 

That said, I can see the point to respeccing your guy, if you end up not liking the path you're on. Making your guy from a healer to a DPS, or a tank to a DPS, or vice-versa with either of those, takes a bit more than a simple skillpoint distribution. For a DPS, changing your tree you're specced into doesn't take much effort, since you're still doing damage and probably recycle the same gear - the only change is in how that damage comes about (burns for Watchmen Sentinels, bursts and speed with Combat Sentinels, etc.)

 

That's just my thoughts on it.

 

Honestly, I was with you on this subject a long time ago. Back when Blizzard was thinking about introducing dual spec to WoW I was dead set against it. I did not see a reason why players could not pick a spec and live with it. In that game I had a healer (Priest), that with the "less than ideal" spec I had come up with, I was able to heal anything, solo PvE, and PvP successfully (with different gear sets of course). And I just did not understand the NEED for fully optimized talents/skills all the time.

 

Then dual spec came out, and since I had the in-game cash to spare (5000 gold) I got dual spec on that priest. Shortly thereafter, my guild was running a raid and we had too many healers and not enough DPS. I switched to DPS spec and was so good at it (pulled second best DPS in the raid with mostly healer gear), that my guild requested I stick with it. For 2+ years, I soloed DPS spec, raided DPS spec, and ran dungeons as healer spec (much shorter group finder queue times and I was able to maintain my healing skills). More than two years later, my new guild (with some old friends) was short on healers. Because I had the spec and the gear, I was able to jump right in and heal (although it did feel strange at first ).

 

The point is, that while you might be a staunch single spec player now, do not cut yourself off from the possibility. You may find that you fill another role just as well or better than the role you currently play. Or you may find out that one or two skills that are different make a LOT of difference if you do both PvE and PvP.

[Quantum]

When are we going to see duel specialization? There is always talk of it but instead they give subs free respec's. If you are like me you couldn't be bothered redoing all your talents and then setting up your action bars when there is a need for a role, just to have to do it all over again when you want to play the role you were in. We keep hearing BioWare is listening to us and reading our posts.... if this is true, then why just a band aid fix instead of implementing duel specs??? I don't see the importance of "emotes/moods" when you can get more out of the game with duel specs. I like to heal while raiding, but also like to DPS in PvP... but i would have to respec constantly to get the full enjoyment I would be looking for. Is there emote/mood for "*** Bioware, you would rather put extras in for free to play instead of giving your subscribers what they have been asking for before 1.2".

 

Honestly a Fully Moddable UI would be more useful to everyone.

[Macheath]

Nah, not talking about from a guild standpoint - the guys I'm with now seem pretty cool and understanding (hell, they're an altaholic-based guild, so I'm sure quite a few of them would have the same mindset as me and have single-purpose characters.) I just mean with pickup groups or something like PvP where it throws you into a team. If I ever use Groupfinder and get into a group with my Combat-spec Sentinel, I don't want some guy going "DOOD! US UR WTCHMN SPEC DOOD!" and then boot me thirty seconds later when I say I'm a combat-spec, and don't use Watchman.

 

The players who act this way will act this way regardless of whether dual specs are in the game or not. Some players already do act like this. Furthermore, we have no evidence that games which allow for dual specs also have a greater number of these players. There aren't a disproportionate number of these players in Rift, for example, and you can save up to 8 specs in that game.

 

There have been players calling for dual specs since well before SW:ToR was released; however, despite no substantive argument against them, a true dual spec system has yet to make an appearance. In a game that automatically groups us with other players, teleports us to and from dungeons, offers multiple quick travel abiltiies, sprint at level one -and so on- is there any justification for the lack of an ability to save multiple specs to a template? I think that's a question BioWare would have trouble answering.

 

BioWare's shown us that if they can't gather "metrics" on an issue, they largely ignore that issue. If they can gather metrics on the issue, they make decisions based off those metrics; not player feedback. Thus, the best we can hope for is that our player feedback points out which metrics they need to look at. Unfortunately, there's no metric which offers an easy breakdown of dual specs, so I've long since lost hope that BioWare will see reason on this particular issue.

 

There are a few metrics BioWare should be looking at, though. One is LFD wait times. You want shorter wait times? Allow players to spec as whatever they want while soloing, but then be able to spec as a tank or healer for groups. That will decrease the number of DPS waiting in queue, and increase the number of tanks and healers in queue.

 

The second is PvP queue wait times, for the same reasons listed above. Allowing players to have a PvE spec as well as a PvP spec (or multiples of each) frees them from having to make the choice, "Do I want to PvP or PvE today?" With multiple spec templates saved, they can queue for all of it with the knowledge that their character won't be "gimped" in any one environment (note that this also will have a positive effect on metrics like "dungeon success rate", "dungeon completion time", and other things of that nature.)

 

Another metric to look at is outcomes of open world PvP encounters. Players currently sitting in the LFD queue are likely going to be specced for group content. Typically, group PvE specs are not as good for PvP as hybrid specs, and this is definitely true in SW:ToR. Allowing players to keep a PvE spec on hand for when their queue pops lets players to run around the world with optimal PvP builds, even while looking for a group. This, in turn, leads to more competitive open world PvP. No longer is one class "dominating" in PvP simply because the player using that class has chosen to run around with an optimal PvP spec and PvP stats, praying on other players using specs designed and balanced for a different part of the game. That, by the way, also leads to more accurate metrics gathered in open world PvP overall, because you've helped mitigate the factor of sub-optimal specs fighting against optimal specs (and that applies to instanced PvP, too.)

 

-Macheath.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Macheath

[kosiah]

I have another term I use for Dual Spec.

 

I call it "lazy game design."

 

In a world where everyone will respec for each encounter, there's no need to tune for any encounter, or balance class specializations against each other.

[Elyx]

I don't have any issue with Dual spec. But I also don't have an issue with my hotbars. I have them set up so I usually have 3-4 skills MAX that i have to switch when I respec. most are 3 or less. It's not that hard. A respec is withing the same AC, so 90% of your skills are the same.

 

I have 4 50's (with another on the way), and all of them are multiple role AC's, so i switch....allot. and it takes me a total of 3-5m maximum to switch specs and gear. Not sure why a group can't take a quick Bio while their second tank switches specs. the talent trees really aren't so diverse that you are going with different skill sets every time. Funny thing is...I can't tell you the exact names of most my jugg's talents, but i can tell you exactly where they are in the tree! moral of this story is that it's not hard to remember a spec. really. but dual spec really isn't a barrier to me either.

 

But I'm game for it IF... it doesn't take a huge investment of resources. because it really is a simply QoL issue that eliminates 3 minutes of time in the life of a person who raids. if it's a simple switch they can turn on, fine. if they have to pull someone away from another issue that needs fixing to do this, it can wait. It really is only a few minutes of my time.

[FooBard]

I would be all for dual specs if it weren't for the tank spec requiring another full set of gear...

 

That said, my tanks are tanks... and nothing else.

 

Period.

[FooBard]

I have another term I use for Dual Spec.

 

I call it "lazy game design."

 

In a world where everyone will respec for each encounter, there's no need to tune for any encounter, or balance class specializations against each other.

WHY do people try to make so much more out of this than it is?? Why? Are you that narrow minded?

 

People just want to be able to switch from DPS, to Healer.... That isn't "tuning for every encounter". shesh

[SWGEvictee]

When are we going to see duel specialization? There is always talk of it but instead they give subs free respec's. If you are like me you couldn't be bothered redoing all your talents and then setting up your action bars when there is a need for a role, just to have to do it all over again when you want to play the role you were in. We keep hearing BioWare is listening to us and reading our posts.... if this is true, then why just a band aid fix instead of implementing duel specs??? I don't see the importance of "emotes/moods" when you can get more out of the game with duel specs. I like to heal while raiding, but also like to DPS in PvP... but i would have to respec constantly to get the full enjoyment I would be looking for. Is there emote/mood for "*** Bioware, you would rather put extras in for free to play instead of giving your subscribers what they have been asking for before 1.2".

 

Despite his liberal use of "we", the OP doesn't speak for me. Put off Dual spec indefinitely in favor of bug bashing and game optimization as far as I'm concerned. "We" can easily roll a second character to play a different spec. "We" can't fix the game.

[Macheath]

I have another term I use for Dual Spec.

 

I call it "lazy game design."

 

In a world where everyone will respec for each encounter, there's no need to tune for any encounter, or balance class specializations against each other.

 

Implementing dual specs does not give the developers a licence to design each class with only one viable spec. That has never been the case in any MMO which features a multi-spec system. This is a false assumption on your part.

 

It actually allows the devs to more finely tune encounters, and offer more challenging content. When they can balance PvE content around PvE specs, it makes for more interesting and challenging PvE content. When they have to balance content around tanks and healers who don't have access to all of their appropriate skills, or DPS characters who are purposefully sacrificing damage output for survivability, they are forced to make that content much easier than if they can count on any given group of players to at least be using specs designed with PvE group roles in mind.

 

-Macheath.

[digimass]

Im a launch Merc... Between dps, healing, and a pvp setup too, and the stuff i need to slot for gear to run each... This should have been done long ago. This game lacks alot of stuff, but ,maybe one day they will put it in.. just hope its before I unsub...

[funkhouse]

More funnies.. Coming back after 9months of not playing this game and ive seen alot of things they talked about putting long before the rak event release (i left shortly after that) and even boasted about them on their dev pages and front page of whats coming. So 9months later all the players got was a lousy and terrible goupd finder lol. Not hating or complaining. Just stating the obvious as i learned to just play the games as they are and go with it. But its not cool to say one thing and never do it. Gets peoples hopes up. Small things can go a long way.

[FeelFlow]

Yes, dual spec please. It's long overdue. The game really needs it. It's nearly 2013 and this part of the game is like WoW in 2009. Hmph.

 

Start off with dual spec in your advanced class - but dual speccing both advanced classes is the way to go, eventually.

[wowmiscott]

Wow, i just put this thread up to rant a little... didn't expect so many replies. All the replies have been great and constructive... well most, but I guess the spelling and grammar trolls will troll.

[Elear]

However, there really isn't any reason not to have dual/multispec at this point, I feel like the field respec + no cost to do it is kind of a quick bandaid.

 

There is reason. Current system with unlimited free field respecs is superior in main aspect it's supposed to fill(allowing multiple specs) to any possible dual spec. Things like quick quickbars switch or gear switch might be nice, but they are nowhere as important as people make them be.

 

I have another term I use for Dual Spec.

 

I call it "lazy game design."

 

In a world where everyone will respec for each encounter, there's no need to tune for any encounter, or balance class specializations against each other.

 

People already can do it, but it's effect is opposite of what you're saying. Since there is no cost to respec, people are free to test builds and go back, and because of that more people are playing 'better' spec, making it easier to detect imbalance. And since 2 or 3 viable specs contribute to versality, it's part of class balance to keep all specializations viable.

[veyl]

This thread is ridiculous. Fork out the 200k for Field Respecialization already. It literally takes me the time at the start of a warzone to respec // move abilities on the hotbar. That's 1 minute at the most.

[Aelther]

This thread is ridiculous. Fork out the 200k for Field Respecialization already. It literally takes me the time at the start of a warzone to respec // move abilities on the hotbar. That's 1 minute at the most.

 

Hmmm dual-spec that takes 5 seconds vs infinite spec that takes up to 1 minute....

Seems like a no-brainer but we should never underestimate people's laziness...

[xorcist]

This thread is ridiculous. Fork out the 200k for Field Respecialization already. It literally takes me the time at the start of a warzone to respec // move abilities on the hotbar. That's 1 minute at the most.

 

So what does that make you if you post in a thread you feel is ridiculous? It's your opinion that matters to no one else. People feel very strongly about this feature. And the ones who have something constructive to contribute about the subject have good points. FYI, your post is not constructive. Have you even ever experienced what conveniences dual spec offers!?

 

As some have already said. It is a quality of life issue at the very least. At most it means that many will choose what they will and will not queue up for without one. Basically it could mean all the difference in waiting for either a warzone to pop up, or a flashpoint, or even an operation for that mater.

 

Dual Spec is a good idea. Now add a feature that swaps my pve/pvp gear at one touch of a button and we're golden

[possumcatcher]

Put me down as a "YAY" for dual spec. I'll even vote "YAY" on Triple Spec.

 

They really need it.

[scullzomben]

Dual spec / multi spec is really needed. Yes, field respec is an "okay" bandaid. But we really need a screen so that we can label all of our specs and just click them and then do a channel that changes all of our skill points, hotbars and gear. You could have

 

PvE Heals

PvE Dps

Dailies Hybrid

PvP heals

PvP dps

 

My god it would be great.