The Importance of Player Feedback with the New Free-to-Play Option

[CKNORTH]

I agree Star Wars is a huge franchise and has several projects which are aimed at the younger generation (eg. Clone Wars) but SWTOR? NO. The community inside the game is just not suitable for kids, ask any youth worker and they'll tell you the same thing. And the closest thing SWTOR has to a parent control is the profanity filter but even then that doesn't block everything.

 

If you think kids or rather pre teens and teens, ( there still kids ) aren't playing this or shouldn't play this game is rediculous. If a father wants to play a Star Wars game with his kids and the majority of his family for long periods of time instead of taking them to the movies where popcorn and pop cost more then the game itself for one night. Then I say more power to the father who has something in common with his kids and you know might talk and have fun?

 

If they get "quality time" in a Star Wars game where they can " Learn to Budget " for things they want and abide by the " Rules " set forth in a gaming envoronment. I honestly don't think there is a problem with that.

 

I think they should open it up and let people have something called " Fun " and " Enjoy " what the game has to offer. Then maybe people would open there wallets for something they feel is " worth it "........

 

Maybe there in fact catering to the wrong crowed entirely and change it to be what Star Wars has always been, family PG orientated.

[CainJason]

Okay we are getting sick of the sever shutting down all the time whether it is do to fullness or just plain *** screwed up this is how you lose customers. The most played on server and you are letting free play on it that is wrong move all free play account to one of the lower less used severs (Europe) they are all low and can handle the free players. We also should not have to go from area 1 to area 2 or 3 when it is full, that is one of the dumbest thing I have ever seen come on it has been a year all this stuff should be fixed! Sound like you need stronger, bigger severs that can handle everyone in one area at the same time????????? I have talked with a lot of people in game and in chats that feel the same way as me.

 

P.S. Please fix these issues, it is a very big deal

 

P.S.S How refunding all of our money, or adding time to our accounts every-time this stuff happens?

[Deimias]

Your F2P model is fundamentally flawed. The purpose of F2P is to entice people to try the game, to fall in love with it, and to pay a subscription because they want more access to things. Your approach is to tell people - 'Hey, want to do this? Sorry! You have to be a sub to do that!' It's bloody insulting the amount of second-class citizenship you push on your f2pers in an effort to force them to sub. My first exposure to this game was f2p, and it was only because I really really liked KOTOR that I bothered subbing. Your model is designed to test the attachment people have for the game to absolute limits, aka, 'How much more of my free **** will you swallow before you give in and submit to a sub?' Most people will leave.

 

I'm guessing, that now that you've crowdsourced your whole f2p model to this thread, you're not attracting new subs and are looking for ideas. I'm not saying your model is bad for the base material... your system isn't really designed for f2p. Maybe you could lock all f2pers out of ops and level 50 wzs. Who cares? The fun in this game is the levelling. But how do you lock players out of levelling? That's your one-trick pony and unless players try it and fall in love with it, why would they have any reason to sub at all? So you proceed to allow them to level, but slowly and painfully. They're reminded on every quest reward, every tutorial screen (seriously, take that **** out), every tooltip, that they're second class and that the game scorns them. THIS IS A BAD IDEA. IF YOU WANT NEW PLAYERS, TREAT THEM LIKE ROYALTY. Constantly giving them a flow of good stuff (the quests) and bad (your f2p BS) just makes them have an overall feeling of frustration which is pretty much what counts when they pull out their wallet. The dedicated will sub. But the dedicated have long since subbed and stayed or left. The trickle coming in now is in no way going to help you reach you subscriber targets. You're also encouraging an in-game divide between f2p and sub. Already there's a ton of hate for f2pers across the boards and in-game. Is this really the kind of reception you want new players to have? Have the game and every player they meet tell them they're homeless freeloaders, because they wanted to try an option you provided? If monetized right a f2p player pays far more than a sub.

 

But, of course, your problem is making the f2p experience too good is akin to encouraging people to not sub. You want subs because you're afraid making the whole game f2p will ruin your flow of steady cash. And I'd say that's correct because your cartel shop is sadly very lacking. I have a 1000 coins right now that I've collected for subscriptions... and there's nothing besides experience boosts that I want to spend it on. Your shop needs to be MUCH better in order to really pull in the numbers. Already people have stopped buying Cartel Packs because they've realized how incredibly low the drop chances for good items are.

 

So, in terms of a model, this is my recommendation:

 

Allow anyone to create an account, and level to a maximum of 30 on any character, and let the account expire in one month. No restrictions. Let them do whatever they want.

 

Remove the whisper restriction, but allow subs to block whispers sent by f2pers, to prevent spamming by credit farmers.

 

Let 3 report spams result in an auto-silence for 30 min, to allow spammers to be blocked.

 

But besides that let them do whatever. They will never see more than one act of content, which is plenty, and if they've gotten that far it is unlikely they will drop it midway. They will not abandon accounts because they will be unwilling to level that character all over again. Limited character slots means they can only experience the initial story of a few characters. And a one month limit means they can't just sit at 30 forever and form level 30 guilds.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Deimias

[LordArtemis]

This is very minor thing compare to the more important things players have been clamoring for. Much more important stuff then slot bars. This is a cosmetic thing compared to the real issues and whats been desired and asked for, bioware has continued to turn a blind eye.

 

I don't trust them to listen to anyone but what they want. History is the teacher here, it has shown this repeatedly.

 

Oh, I think it is FAR more important than you give it credit for.

 

In fact, I think removing and charging for Quickbars in the F2P model that was launched was the single biggest mistake the developers made with the system. The resounding denouncement of this move across the net stands in evidence of this.

 

And this game didn't need more negative PR. It was a fumble. It has been corrected IMO, but they should have listened to us in testing instead of launching it in that state.

 

You might be surprised how something as seemingly unimportant as removing UI elements and charging for them might effect game reputation and retention ability...

Edited December 7, 2012 by LordArtemis

[Darthvokur]

Maybe there in fact catering to the wrong crowed entirely and change it to be what Star Wars has always been, family PG orientated.

 

Not going to comment on the rest of your post, since I wouldn't know where to start. But this bit actually made me laugh.

All Lucasarts do is cater to children! The majority of Star Wars fans are over 18, catering to children is not what Lucasarts needs to do, and after the huge success of the Mass Effect trilogy it's finally dawned on them- hence the upcoming Star Wars: 1313 game.

 

the main thing people complained about on the forums after F2P was the quickslot bars, and they listened and added more.

 

Yes, because F2P don't pay anything. The only reason they are listening is because they think it'll get them more cash. They don't listen to the issues subbed players bring up at all.

[MitchPB]

If you think kids or rather pre teens and teens, ( there still kids ) aren't playing this or shouldn't play this game is rediculous. If a father wants to play a Star Wars game with his kids and the majority of his family for long periods of time instead of taking them to the movies where popcorn and pop cost more then the game itself for one night. Then I say more power to the father who has something in common with his kids and you know might talk and have fun?

 

If they get "quality time" in a Star Wars game where they can " Learn to Budget " for things they want and abide by the " Rules " set forth in a gaming envoronment. I honestly don't think there is a problem with that.

 

I think they should open it up and let people have something called " Fun " and " Enjoy " what the game has to offer. Then maybe people would open there wallets for something they feel is " worth it "........

 

Maybe there in fact catering to the wrong crowed entirely and change it to be what Star Wars has always been, family PG orientated.

 

MMO's aren't designed for children why should TOR be any different. And I don't know what your definition of quality family time is but online gaming just doesn't seem very bonding.

[Darthvokur]

And I don't know what your definition of quality family time is but online gaming just doesn't seem very bonding.

 

My thoughts exactly :/

[DudeSweat]

Hey!!!!

So I usually just read on the forums, and this may be the wrong place for it. But playing since beta, I just started the BH class. And since y'all are wanting feedback, making improvements, things like that. How about some kind of Jet Pack Mount? I mean yeah they have a "Rocket Boost Ability" which last like 12 seconds. But I mean a real jet pack mount, just seems it would make play all the more awesome. And heck, you could jack up the price, but I am sure people, like myself, would pay for that kind of in game option. Just my two cents, so there it is.

 

I agree 100% I was very disappointed when I created my BH that there was no jet pack to actually fly. Yes you can buy jet boots later in the game (lame), but having that jet pack would be awesome. Like a speeder. Instead of a BH buying a speeder, he purchases a jetpack. Yeah dog!

[DudeSweat]

My thoughts exactly :/

 

LOL!!! I agree. I know people who seem to think while they are playing, they're also bonding because their kid is looking over their shoulder. It's not people. Turn the dang game off and go outside and play with your kid. When they take a nap or go to bed, throw on some headphone and play away.

[DudeSweat]

They don't listen to the issues subbed players bring up at all.

 

I completely agree. I've read the posts in the "suggestion box" - and made a couple myself - and I can't think of one thing that has been implemented. Instead we're given floating chairs.

If I want to customize my starship, including its name, I should be able to.

If I want to creat a Rodian Jedi, I should have that ability.

What about actually seeing a lightsaber slash through an enemy? Depending on your age, you should be able to do that too.

There are tons more of course (I've only posted a couple of my own), but yeah, subscribed players really need to have their voiced heard otherwise they/we may be going somewhere else if we feel we're being ignored.

[CKNORTH]

Not going to comment on the rest of your post, since I wouldn't know where to start. But this bit actually made me laugh.

All Lucasarts do is cater to children! The majority of Star Wars fans are over 18, catering to children is not what Lucasarts needs to do, and after the huge success of the Mass Effect trilogy it's finally dawned on them- hence the upcoming Star Wars: 1313 game.

 

You may be correct, I mean in fact most of us who love Star Wars were born in the 70's but why then did Lucas sell to Disney if he didn't want his industry to stay within a family setting? Just wondering....

[MarkoJinn]

I say give everyone everything for free and make Bioware apply for welfare so that they can keep making the game for all you give me everything for free folks... Because, you know, Obama won the election and we are a socialist country now anyway...

 

/sarcasm off

[DudeSweat]

Your F2P model is fundamentally flawed. The purpose of F2P is to entice people to try the game, to fall in love with it, and to pay a subscription because they want more access to things. Your approach is to tell people - 'Hey, want to do this? Sorry! You have to be a sub to do that!' It's bloody insulting the amount of second-class citizenship you push on your f2pers in an effort to force them to sub. My first exposure to this game was f2p, and it was only because I really really liked KOTOR that I bothered subbing. Your model is designed to test the attachment people have for the game to absolute limits, aka, 'How much more of my free **** will you swallow before you give in and submit to a sub?' Most people will leave.

 

I'm guessing, that now that you've crowdsourced your whole f2p model to this thread, you're not attracting new subs and are looking for ideas. I'm not saying your model is bad for the base material... your system isn't really designed for f2p. Maybe you could lock all f2pers out of ops and level 50 wzs. Who cares? The fun in this game is the levelling. But how do you lock players out of levelling? That's your one-trick pony and unless players try it and fall in love with it, why would they have any reason to sub at all? So you proceed to allow them to level, but slowly and painfully. They're reminded on every quest reward, every tutorial screen (seriously, take that **** out), every tooltip, that they're second class and that the game scorns them. THIS IS A BAD IDEA. IF YOU WANT NEW PLAYERS, TREAT THEM LIKE ROYALTY. Constantly giving them a flow of good stuff (the quests) and bad (your f2p BS) just makes them have an overall feeling of frustration which is pretty much what counts when they pull out their wallet. The dedicated will sub. But the dedicated have long since subbed and stayed or left. The trickle coming in now is in no way going to help you reach you subscriber targets. You're also encouraging an in-game divide between f2p and sub. Already there's a ton of hate for f2pers across the boards and in-game. Is this really the kind of reception you want new players to have? Have the game and every player they meet tell them they're homeless freeloaders, because they wanted to try an option you provided? If monetized right a f2p player pays far more than a sub.

 

But, of course, your problem is making the f2p experience too good is akin to encouraging people to not sub. You want subs because you're afraid making the whole game f2p will ruin your flow of steady cash. And I'd say that's correct because your cartel shop is sadly very lacking. I have a 1000 coins right now that I've collected for subscriptions... and there's nothing besides experience boosts that I want to spend it on. Your shop needs to be MUCH better in order to really pull in the numbers. Already people have stopped buying Cartel Packs because they've realized how incredibly low the drop chances for good items are.

 

So, in terms of a model, this is my recommendation:

 

Allow anyone to create an account, and level to a maximum of 30 on any character, and let the account expire in one month. No restrictions. Let them do whatever they want.

 

Remove the whisper restriction, but allow subs to block whispers sent by f2pers, to prevent spamming by credit farmers.

 

Let 3 report spams result in an auto-silence for 30 min, to allow spammers to be blocked.

 

But besides that let them do whatever. They will never see more than one act of content, which is plenty, and if they've gotten that far it is unlikely they will drop it midway. They will not abandon accounts because they will be unwilling to level that character all over again. Limited character slots means they can only experience the initial story of a few characters. And a one month limit means they can't just sit at 30 forever and form level 30 guilds.

 

Nail...on...the...head. A very good, thought-out post my man.

 

When I saw/heard all the limitations to F2P, I was appalled. I was wondering with so many limitations and frustration, why would any one join? Yes I know as a subscriber I can do anything. However, like Deimias, I began as a level 15 cap F2P. When I noticed the limitations, I subscribed. However, those limitations were very small. Now as a F2P, you can only do the bare minimum without spending money or subscribing.

 

I agree, let F2P people do what they want, when they want up to a certain level and by that time, they will have played the game so much they wouldn't want to give anything up and will subscribe. Making people frustrated and flooding the general chat with F2P people who don't have a clue is rediculous.

 

Now, start listening to subscribers with what they want or you'll have a whole set of other problems on your hands.

[CKNORTH]

LOL!!! I agree. I know people who seem to think while they are playing, they're also bonding because their kid is looking over their shoulder. It's not people. Turn the dang game off and go outside and play with your kid. When they take a nap or go to bed, throw on some headphone and play away.

 

You guys are probably right I mean I agree with younger kids, but pre teens to late teens have a lot going on. I guess in general it depends on your situation

Edited December 7, 2012 by CKNORTH

[Zaifodias]

How about listening to your PAYING customers and addressing some of their issues like character server transfer? I guess that once you have our money, the earplugs go in!

[Darthvokur]

You may be correct, I mean in fact most of us who love Star Wars were born in the 70's but why then did Lucas sell to Disney if he didn't want his industry to stay within a family setting? Just wondering....

 

The movies are for families, no doubts there. Games and other media? Mostly for older fans, mid-teens and upwards. I don't think letting children read Death Troopers, or play the Force Unleashed, is such a good idea.

[CKNORTH]

The movies are for families, no doubts there. Games and other media? Mostly for older fans, mid-teens and upwards. I don't think letting children read Death Troopers, or play the Force Unleashed, is such a good idea.

 

Guess that's why it's PG Lol. Never read or played those. I guess what I was referring too was more of a mid teen to late teen setting where mmo's could be a worth while way to spend time with them. Your right though younger children should steer clear on some mmo's I say some because in fact wow does have parental controls in there account settings, to be honest I think every mmo should have these regardless of age group playing. That way at least parents have the ability to control somewhat of what there kids are consuming on the Internet.

[Darthvokur]

That way at least parents have the ability to control somewhat of what there kids are consuming on the Internet.

 

I don't disagree, but I imagine that kind of thing needs to be implemented from launch, otherwise it's time consuming and forces everything else into the back seat.

[CKNORTH]

I don't disagree, but I imagine that kind of thing needs to be implemented from launch, otherwise it's time consuming and forces everything else into the back seat.

 

I would think so too, I mean how many parents read labels, a lot think oh it's Star Wars how bad can it be? I do agree few things in this game are not for children at all. But they should of made an effort to think about there target market if they keep it where it's more PG and less slipping into the higher rating they would overall have a higher consumer rate, at least in my own opinion Lol

 

Edit: aside from that I think if the lose the exp cap and lose the credit cap with what they have planned now it would help a lot of people who are free to play as well as those subbed.

Edited December 7, 2012 by CKNORTH

[Primarch_PWnD]

If feedback is so important to them, and they're "listening to everything", why are the only new armor appearances that have been added since 1.2 (9-months ago) only 2 new sexy armors, and the first 2 additions to the cartel store the same flight suit (already available in-game) in two different colors?

 

Every single class forum has some post about character appearance on the first page, and the general forum generally has some posts about appearance (ignoring the sticky asking for advice because they know how terrible most of the appearances are).

 

Maybe they listen, but what's clear is their total lack of understanding of what players actually want and NEED to maintain the desire to keep paying a sub.

 

There's no way they should have even thought about limiting quickbars, the game is completely unplayable without at least 3, and 3 is pushing it; if they actually played the game themselves they wouldn't have had to "listen to feedback" to change that.

 

I guess it's either all that, or they really are just making the stuff that they want to see, and not the game their customers want to pay for.

[DEMarq]

I had to cancel my account after 2 ticket submissions went without help. My 50 main on my paid account is bugged and parts of the character (this one only) think it is a free account. (can only send one companion at a time on missions, and a few other issues). My current account status is active. I was looking forward to the changes, but after that and disappearing cartel coins, I was at a loss.

 

I also put comments when I cancelled my account but I'm not sure anyone actually reads those. I'd be happy to continue if someone could help me out. Heck, I've done so much beta testing I can probably tell you how it happened.

I can agree on the bugs, after the patch I seem to get kicked off at random, Mainly when I buy cartel items,trading between my LEG alt's and when I'm on FP's....I've used the fix-it on my game-launcher which did knock the bugging down abit. But know it didn't stop the bugging just slowed it down some to where it doesn't happen soo often. And yes, I'm still a sub and overall enjoy this game very much.

[DEMarq]

Dear SWTOR, I was thinking about how you can have relationships with companions, and I also thought that you guys should make it so we can be in a relationship with companions in our legacy family tree. Just something to think about.

 

Heck, I think we should have the option to have one of our alt's AS a companion.

[Lankybrit]

This is all very well, but where is an increase in Space Battles for Preferred? That's the only thing that will get me playing again.

 

Cheers.

[danpen]

It's good to that the free to play has gone as they wanted it to

[MrMichael]

So I've been subscriber since prelaunch, and now I have my wife on a F2P account, and am realizing some of the restrictions. The biggest thing that stands out to me is WHY some of the restrictions are there. For example, I can't do a direct trade to my wife's character but I CAN mail her stuff. WHY? It makes no sense at all. An aspect of convenience I imagine, but honestly it is more inconvenient to the subscriber trying to help out a F2P person then it is for the F2P person you are trying to coax into buying.

 

Another thing I don't understand the reason for... WHY do you have a bind timer on cartel items at all? If you want me to be able to sell something on the GTN or trade it to someone at all, then why make me wait a day, or even an hour, or even 5 mins for that matter? Either make it bound, or don't. I get the timers on raid drop items... sure that's a no brainer. I do NOT understand the timers on something I get from a cartel chest that only I have access to open, and no one can "ninja" from.

 

My feedback in summary, think about the things you actually do. And ask yourself if it makes even a tiny bit of sense. If it takes anyone a second to figure it out, then maybe whoever thought up the restrcition in the first place, should give the community an explaination on the forums as soon as it is delivered in a patch to us.

 

Great game, I do love it. However still a lot of bugs, and more importantly, RECURRING bugs. Bugs that were supposed to have been fixed ages ago, keep coming back up. And a lot of things that just don't make any sense at all.