Relics for neutral players?

[MarkusBiggus]

Very disappointing that there isn't any non aligned relics in the game at all, as if you lvl with pvp only then there is no chance of getting any dark or light side points to use a relic currently until 50..

 

Plenty of gear like light sabres are light/dark aligned too. I'd rather just play how I like and see how my light/dark alignment ended up - but I can't play like because I have to accumulate either light or dark points once i've chosen which way I want to go.

 

One very simple solution is to allow grey to use both light and dark of the same level. Grey level calculated by total of light/dark points where difference between them does not exceed 1000 to be level 1 of either side.

Simple - get on to it BioWare.

Edited December 6, 2012 by MarkusBiggus

[MarkusBiggus]

I think you misunderstood that quest if it's the one I'm thinking of. The quest giver is smuggling spice, an illegal drug. What you actually did was sell crack to orphans.

 

Oh that's a whole other debate about what should be light or dark. I am really quite surprised more often than expected about how light/dark are granted for some decisions. I really wonder whose morality was used when these choice were made by the developers.

Don't get me started on the hypocrisy of the Jedi missions having to just go kill 30 or 40 dudes for bonus credit.

[Dire-Wolf]

I don't see why they don't just base rewards and titles for neutral players on the players overall level.

 

So if you're level 20 and have no gained darkside 1 or lightside 1 you get a title. Level 30 and you still haven't gained light or dark 1 you get access to relics. Level 40 and you're still not dark or light 1 you get another title and even better relics etc.

[Staavis_SC]

Hey everyone; I asked Lead Designer Damion Schubert for an update on neutral gear. He let me know that the implementation of this feature isn't planned for the immediate future, but that it's still something we want to do. When we do add it, you can expect a variety of gear for neutral-aligned players.

 

Could you not simply create a vendor NPC, offer a variety of Relics at varying levels, with no alignment requirement, as is the case with Level 50 Epic Relics? It would seem this could be done in the span of 1 patch, maybe 2, and would get this particular issue off your "to-do" list, while making some of your customers quite happy.

 

Light Side and Dark Side, only means something to the Jedi and the Sith. But to Imperial Agents, Bounty Hunters, Smugglers and Republic Troopers, it's pretty ridiculous, yet, because of this Jedi/Sith centric design, anyone that does play to the Jedi/Sith morality codes, is penalized, thus forcing them down one path or another if they want to be properly geared.

 

The whole point of the "story for each class" was to give players a unique experience, am I right? So here, you are breaking player's RP experience and forcing them to change their story, based on an ideal which doesn't even apply to their character unless they are Jedi or Sith!

 

This has been an issue since Launch Day, and it needs to be fixed or at the least, a workaround applied, as I described above. This has to be one of the longest running issues of "broken gameplay" in SWTOR. It's time to get it done Bioware.

[Zem_]

This has nothing to do with arguing about being neutral, though. This seems to be as if you have a problem with how clear cut some of the choices are not. Not necessarily an issue with not having a neutral option. Therefor some of these choices should be no light gain if you just get the job done, while being pointlessly cruel is clearly evil.

 

I'm not talking about always having a neutral option. Neutral in this game just means you've either avoided light/dark choices where possible and/or you've chosen roughly the same number of light/dark. Your complaint was that this is chaotic behavior because, according to you, this means you're choosing, e.g. good, good, evil, good, evil, evil, etc. I am pointing out how this is not the case.

 

There are also degrees of good and evil. Greed in this game tends to get you dark side points or, at the very least, no light side gain. e.g. If I help someone out and then refuse their reward, I sometimes get light points. Accepting the reward might mean no point gain (and thus no movement away from neutral alignment). Similarly on the dark side the dark choices can range from rather minor evil to pretty distasteful and overwhelmingly cruel. You may have a line you don't cross with your character meaning you sometimes choose the light option (like sparing a prisoner you are interrogating instead of pointlessly killing him when you have what you want).

 

I'm just explaining how you can end up neutral without being some kind of crazy person who is flip-flopping between good and evil as you seemed to be claiming was the case.

[HarleysRule]

<snip>

I'm just explaining how you can end up neutral without being some kind of crazy person who is flip-flopping between good and evil as you seemed to be claiming was the case.

 

Then you'd be neutral 0 or 1, not neutral 4 or 5.

[Cretinus]

Same was said like 8 months ago

 

Cool, 'cause then it should be true.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Cretinus

[pudim]

Hey everyone; I asked Lead Designer Damion Schubert for an update on neutral gear. He let me know that the implementation of this feature isn't planned for the immediate future, but that it's still something we want to do. When we do add it, you can expect a variety of gear for neutral-aligned players.

How great!

 

ETA: 5 years!

[islander]

Hey everyone; I asked Lead Designer Damion Schubert for an update on neutral gear. He let me know that the implementation of this feature isn't planned for the immediate future, but that it's still something we want to do. When we do add it, you can expect a variety of gear for neutral-aligned players.

 

LOL, a year later and still on the backburner.

 

Not blaming you at all Allison, thanks for being straight forward on this. It's just laughable.

[Zem_]

Then you'd be neutral 0 or 1, not neutral 4 or 5.

 

Playing the whole game "true neutral" is probably just as artificial as playing it true light or dark. I'd say it's a lot more likely your average player would end up 75/25 or so if they turned off all conversation alignment indicators and just picked based on which response best fits their character.

 

This is the whole problem with alignment gear. It seems intended to be a reward for attaining some level in the alignment light or dark but... why? The behavior you're rewarding is *ignoring* the story in a story-based game and just picking based on which choice gives you the points you want. I mean just think how much money they spent on story and voiced dialogue and what this alignment gear wants you to do is just bang space-bar until you see the icon you want.

 

If they want alignment gear then it should simply be for cosmetic purposes. Or else the stats should actually be different with light gear emphasizing defense and dark gear emphasizing aggression, or something like that. Neutral being, of course, a balance of forces. Other than that, alignment should be cosmetic only.

[MasterKayote]

LOL, a year later and still on the backburner.

 

Not blaming you at all Allison, thanks for being straight forward on this. It's just laughable.

 

Amazing isnt it? Cant help but think this hasnt gotten past the "sticky note on the fridge" stage yet. Seriously ... its a handful of items with just stats ... no geometry, no colors matching ... nothing. Just a few new item numbers and possibly an NPC in each fleet to sell them. Hell, just removing the requirments on the ones already there would suffice.

 

Nope, still "developement!"

[Alec_Fortescue]

Same was said like 8 months ago

 

It was indeed. Haha. But I need to add that I leveled a number of characters up to level 50. Without relics. they are honestly not needed! And unless someone has diplomacy there is seriously no way that they can keep with Neutral alignment

[Calsetes]

It was indeed. Haha. But I need to add that I leveled a number of characters up to level 50. Without relics. they are honestly not needed! And unless someone has diplomacy there is seriously no way that they can keep with Neutral alignment

 

Grinding Esseles whenever I noticed I was straying too far to one side or the other. I'd run it a few times to get back to as close to 0 as I could. I had a friend who ran it with me so we could grind social points at the same time, but he's stopped playing.

[Rogoo]

Hey everyone; I asked Lead Designer Damion Schubert for an update on neutral gear. He let me know that the implementation of this feature isn't planned for the immediate future, but that it's still something we want to do. When we do add it, you can expect a variety of gear for neutral-aligned players.

 

That's Bioware's way of saying "it's not coming ever". That feature was promised somewhere around February if I'm not mistaken. It's in the chat bubbles league.

 

Makeb was promised by the end of the year. Never going to happen.

 

Bioware should not really post anything on the forums, since pretty much they can't fulfill like 80% of their promises.

 

How's that Season One of Ranked Warzones doing ? 9 months is not nearly enough time to implement them right ?

Edited December 6, 2012 by Rogoo

[SithKoriandr]

I understand why people want neutral relics, but if they added them, what would be the point of lightside and darkside?

 

Really, I haven't agreed with all the lightside and darkside options. Many have left me going "Really? Really? That's a lightside option?" But, if they just make equal neutral relics for leveling purposes, it makes the whole LS/DS part of the game pointless.

[Zem_]

Really, I haven't agreed with all the lightside and darkside options. Many have left me going "Really? Really? That's a lightside option?" But, if they just make equal neutral relics for leveling purposes, it makes the whole LS/DS part of the game pointless.

 

Good. It was always a bad idea to reward people for NOT thinking about their chat responses in a game that supposedly emphasizes story.

 

What they need to do is what KOTOR 2 did with the "yourname" crystal. Allow it to be attuned to YOU such that its stats change as your alignment balance does. Could be another function of the matrix cube assembler to attune other aligned relics. If you still want them to have ranks, then base that off the sum of light and dark points, not the difference. Not perfect, but better than what we have.

 

Chance of this happening? Next to zero. But it would have been the right way to handle alignment gear that isn't just cosmetic.

[Blarpped]

Hey everyone; I asked Lead Designer Damion Schubert for an update on neutral gear. He let me know that the implementation of this feature isn't planned for the immediate future, but that it's still something we want to do. When we do add it, you can expect a variety of gear for neutral-aligned players.

 

So basically, sometime in like 2014 we'll see neutral items added to the cash shop?

[Nemmar]

Guys dont kill the messenger.

 

Allison thank you for asking, but i think at this point its just easier to admit its not gonna happen until a major content patch. We need the items for leveling our alts. I think most of us are really running out of alts to level up, so it wont make a difference at this rate unless its introduced with the next level cap rise.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Nemmar

[shackboredguy]

They should just do what they did with color crystals before and just remove the alignment requirements. Not like anyone cares about relics aside from the stats.

[Calsetes]

I understand why people want neutral relics, but if they added them, what would be the point of lightside and darkside?

 

Really, I haven't agreed with all the lightside and darkside options. Many have left me going "Really? Really? That's a lightside option?" But, if they just make equal neutral relics for leveling purposes, it makes the whole LS/DS part of the game pointless.

 

Simple - neutral gear cannot be used by anyone with an alignment at all. You're Light 1, then guess what? Grind yourself back to neutral, just like if you're Light 5 and "accidentally" picked a darkside option to remove your Light 5 status.

 

It's surprisingly hard (or actually, "tedious" is a better term) to play a character and keep their alignment in the middle. Pick too many of one option, and you're running Esseles a few times to keep yourself in the non-alignment zone.

[gibmachine]

Kudos to Allison for asking but frankly, I can't remember the last time when the response was anything other than "it's on the list of things to do but later". I'm curious to see when things like neutral alignment or character customization (barbershop) will be implemented and whether their quality will justify the time needed for implementation.

 

If it's something like an ordinary vendor selling copypaste gear with requirements simply removed then I'm gonna have a laugh.

Edited December 6, 2012 by gibmachine

[Zem_]

It's surprisingly hard (or actually, "tedious" is a better term) to play a character and keep their alignment in the middle. Pick too many of one option, and you're running Esseles a few times to keep yourself in the non-alignment zone.

 

Just because it's hard (or tedious) doesn't mean it is worthy of reward. If this is to be just another avenue for min/maxing then why bother with the pretense of morality? The actual moral content of these dialogue choices matter ONLY to roleplayers and yet they are the only ones punished for not ignoring them and just picking the same colored button every time regardless of what it means.

 

I get the feeling Bioware intended for this stuff to be "the roleplaying part" of the game and probably don't even realize they've encouraged exactly the opposite of RP behavior.

[IrishTR]

Content Dev: "Hey Item Guy"

Item Dev: "Yea"

Content Dev: "Strip the restrictions on all L1-50 relics"

Item Dev: "You realize how long that will take?"

Content Dev: "Yea about 10 minutes or less, search for Relic and put additional filter for between Level 1-50, select all and remove Dark Side/Light Side."

Item Dev: "but, but, I personally coded each one by hand"

Content Dev: "Do I have to get a Database Admin to just write a script and do it in the tablespace?"

 

By the way incase anyone wants to count... 227 Relics that have the Light/Dark Side type of restriction (Not that difficult)

 

Christ I mean really people it is not that hard to adjust items in an MMO, I've seen and used the tools EA used on a previous MMO and it all boils down to the same thing either use the tool to edit or do it at the Database level whichever you think you can crank out faster. Hell I'll come over on my day off and do it for you free of charge! But please stop making this like its some grand difficult task to accomplish, you already did it once by screwing with Saber Crystals same concept!

Edited December 10, 2012 by IrishTR

[drgjed]

Yet another of the MANY broken promises from BW, AKA Soon™.

 

Everytime I see this I am reminded of the very old and most likely now defunct Star Wars Combined with the dev's always saying content was comming "s00n™"

[Lyability]

Bumperz for old but relevant thread.

 

I'm playing Imp sniper and loving the story line, but I'm having a hard time developing my character to the story line. I quit in frustration because I feel no attachment to the character. I know I'm going to get gimped by not staying to one alignment, first by relics, second my companions (yes, I know how gifts work, but come on, that is really stupid. I slaughter 10 innocent people, and a trinket makes it all better?!). Those of us that are married know flowers only go so far. And from what I heard there are story hooks based on light/dark choices. I cannot confirm or deny as I'm not there yet.

 

The premise of the game is basically role playing your character, not light vs dark. And some of the locked in choices in my characters view disagree completely with the alignment. For example the Corisant stealing information for the senator. That was a *** alignment moment but proves my point precisely. You do the "right" thing but are awarded dark point because you crossed the gray line.

 

I agree that my character is chaotic in my choices but neutral in attitude towards the light/dark characterization. That is how I want to play my character, I don't want to be a paladin or black guard when I am playing a smuggler. A smuggler is typically out for the money, out for himself, he may have a weak spot for saving women or a pet peeve when dealing with authority, not out to be good or bad. It is a huge gaping hole that shows Bioware has lost touch with the roleplaying games. Could you imaging the uproar if Neverwinter Nights only gave Lawful or unlawful points? NERD RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And thats great that at lvl 50 we get to use "neutral" relics. Awesome. What about lvl 1-49? You know, 95% of the game?

Edited December 28, 2012 by Lyability