NO Addons please. There is another solution!

[GFLKrazyKat]

First off, the game is brand new and has many bugs and inconsistencies that need worked out. I personally would like BW to fix things like the broken gathering nodes and mail attachment bugs long before they allow add-ons. Let the game breathe a little before you start crying for anything. Now that being said....

No to add-ons, its not based on the "bad ones getting kicked for poor performance or low dps" that most don't like the dps meters, its the fact that people center their whole game on numbers instead of results or what actually happens during a fight.

If you must have something let it be personal meters so you can improve yourself. Play your game let others play theirs.

Give the developers time to fix more important issues. Take this into consideration, for every add-on they could allow, that's more time during each patch that has to be taken to ensure no exploits, or additional bugs develop for EACH new item they wish to add. Then you see the same names that cried for add-ons crying louder because of longer server down time .

If you don't like certain aspects of the game, do your research, submit the proper documentation and let the developers do their jobs, or play something else. You Don't Have to have anything they don't want to give you , its always your option to take your money and spend it on someone else's game.

I'll never understand the complaints about how WOW evolved and then the attempts to evolve other games into WOW clones because " I need this and this to play better"....

[Pearz]

I had a lot of fun healing in WoW with healbot. It took nothing away from my game except frustration. That's what addons are for - reducing FRUSTRATION. The game is obviously doable without them, but there are very few good reasons we shouldn't be allowed to use them.

[Lord_Method_Man]

My account will be cancelled if addon support is not announced by the end of my first subscription period.

[Centerpin]

I don't want healbots but I would love to get rid of this ui buffs and ui lag....sigh

[Celentes]

Sorry if this has been mentioned already somewhere in the thread.

 

In all honesty and no offense, but a lot of talents were inspired by how wow has been built. Procs with internal cooldowns, for instance. And they have all been designed explicitly with addons in mind, because with the amount of procs and buffs and hots and absorbs you're getting while in a group and even when alone, it is just unreasonable to use UI in its current state.

Icons are too little. No flashy bars/icons/auras for procs. You either look at your screen and see what happens with all the nice animations or look at your hp bar and track the buffs/debuffs.

Either design a game from scratch with only your ui in mind, or allow the use of external resources if you rip off the system that abuses it to the limit.

[NicholaiJS]

All I want is a DPS meter so I can show bads that they are bad.

[Styelz]

The add-ons aren't the problem, it's the people that use them to be elitist jerks. Those people will find other ways to feel superior and try to belittle others with or without mods. DPS meters are extremely helpful to those who use them to judge themselves and who want to improve, and a threat mod gives everyone a great tool to make groups run more efficiently, the DPS can see when they're about to pull aggro, and the ones that don't care or aren't trying will be exposed because they have no excuse. Things like UI, healing or tanking mods only affect those using them and can make things much easier so they can be more effective, what's wrong with that? Because you don't want to be judged by some random person you'll never meet in real life everyone else is suppose to go without the things that can make their playing experience more enjoyable?

 

Bottom line is this is an MMO, add-on support will most likely happen, it's part of life to deal with things you don't like so you can enjoy the things you do. That applies to every aspect of life, when you play a game that brings so many different types of people into the fold, you can't expect to have things only your way and for BW to cater to one specific group of players. If they deny add-on support part of the player base will be happy, if they allow it part of the player base will be happy. The thing that should be the deciding factor is that the closest they can be to being fair about it is to allow it, and those that don't want to use them don't have to, and those that don't want to group with random jerks(who would be jerks with or without the ability to see your DPS) can find a guild of like-minded people.

 

There are some things that should be standard to every MMO, like the ability to customize the UI, and to see your damage output. Being able to see your DPS is the absolute only way you'll ever be able to improve, it's like expecting a sports team to just get better without being able to review the game footage...

 

Either way we'll all be fine, with or without them. If they allow them I assume people's ignore lists will fill up quick. If I had to vote, I'd vote yes. I'd much rather have to ability to make my play time more enjoyable and just put the jerks on /ignore. As for future content being tailored around various mods, let's just hope BW isn't that ignorant, and if they do they at least make the add-ons needed a part of the game interface like Blizzard did with a few of them.

[Manv]

Sorry if this has been mentioned already somewhere in the thread.

 

In all honesty and no offense, but a lot of talents were inspired by how wow has been built. Procs with internal cooldowns, for instance. And they have all been designed explicitly with addons in mind, because with the amount of procs and buffs and hots and absorbs you're getting while in a group and even when alone, it is just unreasonable to use UI in its current state.

Icons are too little. No flashy bars/icons/auras for procs. You either look at your screen and see what happens with all the nice animations or look at your hp bar and track the buffs/debuffs.

Either design a game from scratch with only your ui in mind, or allow the use of external resources if you rip off the system that abuses it to the limit.

 

That is a very good post, I totally agree. Look at this.

 

When you play a dot class, and there is your mirror in the group, you have no way of telling which dots on the boss are yours, and which belong to the other guy. I'm not sure how am I supposed to play like that.

 

There is no way to gauge threat, and when you do serious content and a boss faces you (and you're not a tank), you often go SPLAT. Important, especially considering that tanking is not a cakewalk in this game.

 

When I'm playing my class to the fullest, I have to choose - do I look at the screen, or do I look at my bars? When I'm using 10 or so abilities with different cooldowns and have to monitor my buffs and boss debuffs for maximum performance, I need a third eye to actually see what's happening on the screen. Again, how am I supposed to play like that?

[Vankris]

it would be a grave mistake to not use player base skills, motivation and creativity to enhance gaming experience.

 

as big as it may be, bioware has limited ressources and i rather have them working on actual contene and balance than petty stuff like ui and such. let your player base do it, just release an api.

 

some people, minority i hope, just don't understand the power of having such plateform

 

 

 

simple example: linux. free operating system created by the user for user, probably much more open than a windows or mac os can ever be. and it still is growing.

[schwartzpedro]

After skimming this thread the entire argument I see against add-ons comes down to . .

 

"It makes stupid people more stupid and mean people more mean."

 

Seriously? Actual high-end raiding requires things that let you judge your own performance. DPS meters are a tool, you wouldn't break your hammer because your kid smashed a window with it would you? You would try and teach your kid what the hammer is used for.

 

Add-ons turn healing from painfully impossible to something that actually feels fun and challenging. Healbot is a joke, people who use it are clueless and terrible. I've healed in WoW and Rift, healing in Rift is terrible thanks to a lack of good add-ons and its awful add-on API and its a big reason I no longer play the game.

 

 

Why deny the game free programming hours by denying the use of add-ons? I would much rather have Bioware focused on fixing bugs and releasing new content than tweaking the UI.

 

Add-ons will make the game better in so many ways your pathetic brains can't comprehend.

 

Indeed.Some PVE addons are awesome, and some fluff addons are great too.

 

SWTOR needs addons!

Edited January 20, 2012 by schwartzpedro

[Perkunas]

Again, people need to realize that TONS of features from TOR started as UI mods in Warcraft. It's almost hysterical to see people screaming bloody murder against them when so many features they are enjoying in this game wouldn't have existed without them.

[Tralis_Lisadan]

Another voice to say NO to addons.

[Perkunas]

Another voice to say NO to addons.

 

Another post without a coherent explanation as to why so thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.

[TJHarmon]

I like the OPs idea, but if not Addons would be nice. I hate the people saying addons "dumb down" or make the game easier, just shows their true ignorance. WoW was not dumbed down because of Addons it was dumbed down because of ****** players being exposed by Addons. Also people complaining about diffuculty and saying they are too "casual" to down anything. Bad players will always be bad, with or without Addons and I'd like to have those Addons to keep bad players out of my raids/heroics.

[Mabusa]

Addon haters usualy suck at dps and hps, they want to be carried by others...

[andysdead]

Built-in modifiable interface and a combat log would solve most people's problems I think.

 

I sure would like to actually be able to look at a log and tell what killed me at least, even if not parsing the data for figuring out my dps.

[EuphonyWhite]

I honestly am on the fence about this issue. Many addons created a rich environment to custom tailor the game to a specific persons need. Some addons were frustrating, especially when used as a tool to bully others and put themselves on a pedestal. Also I would be concerned that subscription based addons could come about. They are, in my opinion, an affront to the force. The only other issue i am concerned about is the push and pull of the gaming environment against addons.

 

Everyone has a very different opinion on how their UI should look, what features should be there, and how things should react to their input. If this were placed in the hands of the developer, it would distract them from much of the attention that they want to place on content and balance. If it was under their control they would almost certainly have to make the UI completely modular, so as to please the masses. Addons on the other hand, would allow changing of scale, color, transparency, position, and a great many other options for UI, along with alerts and monitoring of buffs, agro, and productivity. These features could greatly benefit the game, although some of them could also create arguments, such as damage meters, raid warning assists, and the ever furious Gearscore fight that took over WoW. This brings me to my next point.

 

When people want to put down others, they will find a way. Damage meters and raid warning assists are great features that allow the player to evaluate their performance, compare skill tree specs, or help keep them paying attention while dealing with content they have never encountered before.

 

With that comes the chance to better educate other players on what they could do if they feel they are not playing at the level they want to. On the flip side though, it can create scenarios where a player is ridiculed for their choices in their skill tree or rotations, discourages CC able players to use proper CC, for fears they might not make top tier DPS in the raid, and allow opportunities for people to become hostile when a given person does not "move out of the fire".

 

In much of my time in world of warcraft, I played a discipline priest. Much of the time in groups, I was commended for doing well. We would make it though instances without issue, often times encountering content no one in the group had before. Guild raids were very similar, but that took time also, due to the nature of my talent spec. Discipline Priests would protect their group/raidmembers though damage mitigation. Instead of healing incoming damage, I spent alot of my time stopping or reducing damage done altogether. Because of this, when I was still looking for a guild that I would enjoy, after a given raid (or after each major encounter) the DPS would spam their meters, as always. Then the healer would spam theirs, and to their surprise, the other healer had less healing done than some of the DPS who healed through procs! Without fail, I would be ridiculed with comments: "WT eff! I totally carried you though that...", "Pick it up or ill kick your sorry [insert favorite word here] out!"

 

If you remember, damage mitigation is the disc priests bread and butter. There was an issue that as far as when I stopped playing wow was never fixed. There was no accurate way to track damage reduction so I had no way to communicate through meters my contribution to the groups. It was estimated though, that about 2/3 to 3/4 of my productivity in a fight was through reduction/mitigation. After adding that to my healing done, my estimated heal+shield score would be, often times, at or quite above my attackers amount.

 

Eventually I found a group of players that understood this, and all was fine. Before that though, it was really hard to enjoy grouping without switching specs (which I really enjoyed how discipline played so I never did. I knew my worth.) All things considered, these tools can be amazing at evaluation, but it is in the hands of the playerbase to take the information and use it as a way to educate, and edify other players, rather than falling to the route of causing misery to others.

 

Now, many of the "required addons" became part of a compilation that certain addon developers bundled into "pay to receive addon libraries" where it was either required that you paid for the access to the addons, or paid for certain features that would make having addons without it, more trouble than it was worth (such as auto update). On average, raiding groups would require anywhere from 5-10 addon packages. Many of these had multiple addons that were part of them, making it up to 25 addons to configure sometimes. These addons would require updates on at least a weekly basis, sometimes even daily. If you had to update these manually, it was a bit of a headache.

 

While I understand alot of work goes into addon creation (I am going to school for software engineering) it is infuriating that greed comes into the picture while all you want to do is to get into the next Operation that released. I am a proud supporter of open source programming, but I do understand that peoples creations are their own and they can do what they want with them. For people that have to worry about upkeep, the $80 internet bill, $15 game subscription, $5 dollar addon package subscription among the many other bills we as adults have, starts to add up. Something to consider.

 

Now that all of the players have their UI looking spiffy specs conformed to what is accepted at the time, know if they accidentally stay if the fire once they will be kicked, have an empty wallet and are ready to take on the horde of rakghouls that are taking over the universe since last patch, they realize that fights are not engaging enough and that they are getting bored. The developer sees this and makes them harder. Addons get updated and people find their screen littered with warnings every second, get bored, gets harder, update, more warnings, harder, another update, more boredom.... you get the picture. Now those without addons can hardly level from 1-10 without having their Deadly Boss Mods on, let alone dream about raiding. But hey, at least you will have over 500k health!

 

With all of this, I still really dont know how I feel about their implementation. There are quite a few pluses and this game could greatly benefit from some customization and better feedback. With that comes many minor inconveniences and a few MAJOR complications. I think in comfortable guild / group situations, a lot of the major issues go away, but for the people who want to play the game, and enjoy the company of non guildies / pug runs from time to time, or even those new to MMOs in general, this can really hurt the populace.

[Nanoproxil]

I read a lot about people missing addons. "I need healbots, dpsmeters, threatmeter..." You can do just fine without these, it's just a different game, we just have to adapt. Healbot, for instance, turns a very interesting game into something pulled out of a 90's Nintendo!

As for the meters, I have a suggestion: an <End Flashpoint/Operation Report>, just like in the end of Warzones. Voilá, you can consult who's doing their jobs right. DPS, Healing, Protection, MVP vote also (why not?)... It's all there.

Please NO addons. Don't turn this very enjoyable game into a big load of numbers popping out of my screen...

 

 

P.S. I do admit that some customization options on UI are needed.

 

tottaly agree's on this.

[Schwick]

As a raid-leader I need to have ways to measure how well a person is performing. Currently this is not possible. Mods would solve this because people can add stuff to the game that can innovate.

 

That said, if Bioware adds a board similar to the PvP one for boss fights (per boss), that would be a step in the right direction. DPS-meters would be neat. Aggro meters could also help a lot of determine how far you can push before pulling aggro. If Bioware adds these things, the need for mods would be lesser.

 

But again, Blizzard has proven that add-ons lead to improving the game and later on they add such things to the game itself (granted, not always a good version of said mod).

[Karma_UK]

Gearscore already exist in this game, it's called inspect. We have kicked multiple people out of our pug raid due to them having bad gear.

 

 

As far a healbot goes it would just be nice to enable click healing I think everyone will agree there are to many skills in this game and having a way of keybinding more via mouseclicks would benefit everyone except those already with a Naga.

 

Also improve the buffs/debuffs on the raid frames, make them BIGGER so we can actually see them.

 

Simple things like this do away the need for alot of bloated addons.

[SySnootles]

From what i saw on the gamesradar video about the legacy system and the ui customization, its clear that by not talking about mods and only showing ui moving and scaling, implementation of an addon system is far from being a reality in the short-medium term.

[Slackfumasta]

people just need to learn to play.

 

if they are still calling out for add-ons.. well its time they go back to WoW

 

If everybody could learn to play, we wouldn't need a DPS/Healing meter.

 

Since there are a lot of people who play poorly, we need to be able to identify them.

 

Ever wonder why some PUGs are great, some are wipefests?

 

Meters don't change the game, they help us understand what is going on.

 

P.S. People who whine about not wanting damage meters/gear score in the game are usually the baddies I am referring to above.

[Tourniquett]

I don't want healbots but I would love to get rid of this ui buffs and ui lag....sigh

 

THIs ^^

 

Its the biggest problem I have with the game. Supposedly its being looked into.

 

I'll be honest.

 

I was against DPS meters simply b/c how the community abuses them, and all the crap that comes along with them.

 

I pretty much said all along that unless BW makes enrage timers a big issue in the game, then we dont need them. Well, after a month of play, enrage timers are a big element in HM/NM so I do have to concede that I am beginning to change my mind on this.

 

While I still dont like the idea, if that is the road they want to go down, then I have to keep an open mind.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Tourniquett

[Morninglory]

Why exactly do you not want addons available? If you don't like them, don't use them.

 

If only it were that easy but eventually if you want to participate in endgame you'll have to use them or you won't be allowed to raid...they are unnecessary, they take the skill out off the game and imo only lazy people who want to press one button while they watch something on tv as they raid want addons.

[Whatsalightsaver]

T But eventually, they became so widely used and made so many raid encounters easier, developers started to design encounters with the use of these add-ons in mind.

In reality, it became sort of obligatory to use add-ons if you wanted to compete in any way.

 

Exactly. Bosses evolved from Molten Core/tank and spank/tunnel your action bar to something challenging and actually requiring coordination, communication, and player skill to accomplish. Those are good things, they provide an interesting raiding environment. If you just want to tunnel find a target dummy. I mean come on, we all know what you're saying. You don't want things to get hard. Well, I hope Bioware creates content for both of us.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Whatsalightsaver