Velthome Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) If dps meters are allowed. Bioware needs to just allow the type that measures said players dps. Not enabling it to measure anyone other then themselves. Otherwise it would create unwanted drama and elitists jerks would start ruining the game for everyone. UI add-ons, I am in favor of those . A DPS meter is pretty meaningless if it's not compared to the DPS of the group. If I'm on the bottom, I want to damn well know I am so I can fix it, and if I'm on the top, give myself a pat on the back and maybe cajole my buds a bit about it. Also look at it from the raid leader's perspective. Why are we wiping? Are we not progressing the fight fast enough? Is our DPS lacking? Is someone under-performing? If you are not pulling your weight, then you are being a hassle to 7+ other people; it's just reality. Edited January 3, 2012 by Velthome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpins Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) f a boss is balanced right it won't be tank and spank, but it won't be so tightly orchestrated that you need a DBM like mod to let you know the the rain of fire is starting in 2 seconds because it will kill you in half a second from full health... Actually they were made because the game gave you relatively little information making the mechanics much harder then they needed to be. Honestly, DBM was made for farm nights. Back in the days of 40 mans it wasn't uncommon to have one guy basically sit out and just call stuff out and keep time. They could do this because relatively few raids actually needed 40 people working at the absolute peak. When 25 mans rolled around, leading guilds adopted the art of practice runs since all 25 people needed to be on the ball doing their respective roll. A practice run were basically an attempt that was meant to fail, the whole point being getting a specific mechanic down pat for when you went for an actual kill attempt. Honestly top raiding guilds never used anything but the basic addons - mostly for computer performance reasons. Edited January 3, 2012 by TheSpins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AriasImmortal Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Actually they were made because the game gave you relatively little information making the mechanics much harder then they needed to be. Honestly, DBM was made for farm nights. Back in the days of 40 mans it wasn't uncommon to have one guy basically sit out and just call stuff out and keep time. They could do this because relatively few raids actually needed 40 people working at the absolute peak. When 25 mans rolled around, leading guilds adopted the art of practice runs since all 25 people needed to be on the ball doing their respective roll. A practice run were basically an attempt that was meant to fail, the whole point being getting a specific mechanic down pat for when you went for an actual kill attempt. Honestly top raiding guilds never used anything but the basic addons - mostly for computer performance reasons. I remember plenty of top raiding guilds using pretty elaborate addons for naxx 40, for things like loatheb healer rotations and 4h rotations. IDK THOUGH THAT WAS A LONGASS TIME AGO. Personally, I don't give two ***** about boss timers, I just want UI customization (IE remove artwork, scaling, all elements unlocked and movable, more bar options). Also macros. I like macros so I don't have to have both my relics bound and my power stim bound, would love to save some bar space. Edited January 3, 2012 by AriasImmortal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seqilan Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Addons make the UI customisable, i.e. it makes the game easier. See DBM, for example. So the developers have to make the encounters more difficult to retain our interest. Keep it challenging. At saturation point - in comes the boss "dance" mechanics. Those stupidly over-elaborate WoW raids. No thanks. First off, UI Customization does not equal to making the game easier, unless you judge difficulty by having to look at a 5x5 pixel display at the bottom of your screen to see if you have a proc up. In other words, you're arguing that the game difficulty depends on the ease of access to data relevant to gameplay which is just wrong, if that is the case then the game's UI is simply horrible. As for DBM making WoW easier, it doesn't really, especially with the last couple of raid tiers where there are actual indications of bosses doing X or Y ability, which was not always the case in the past. The timers help in maximizing raid planning, but they aren't replacing player skill or involvement in the fights, especially on Heroic Difficulty. Also, I'm trying real hard to recall a WoW raid encounter which is stupidly over-elaborate or involves what you termed "dance" mechanics, so feel free to elaborate on that. Lastly, for all those DPS-meter haters, please explain to me how I can gauge my performance as a DPS Mercenary without access to those? How am I supposed to try out different specs or gear setups if I don't have a tool to actually compare the results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AriasImmortal Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 First off, UI Customization does not equal to making the game easier, unless you judge difficulty by having to look at a 5x5 pixel display at the bottom of your screen to see if you have a proc up. In other words, you're arguing that the game difficulty depends on the ease of access to data relevant to gameplay which is just wrong, if that is the case then the game's UI is simply horrible. As for DBM making WoW easier, it doesn't really, especially with the last couple of raid tiers where there are actual indications of bosses doing X or Y ability, which was not always the case in the past. The timers help in maximizing raid planning, but they aren't replacing player skill or involvement in the fights, especially on Heroic Difficulty. Also, I'm trying real hard to recall a WoW raid encounter which is stupidly over-elaborate or involves what you termed "dance" mechanics, so feel free to elaborate on that. Lastly, for all those DPS-meter haters, please explain to me how I can gauge my performance as a DPS Mercenary without access to those? How am I supposed to try out different specs or gear setups if I don't have a tool to actually compare the results? HEIGAN HAD DANCE MECHANICS. hah I made a funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekreant Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 So from reading this thread one thing is clear Scrubs are afraid of being kicked out of a group because they're a liability to the team because they don't do their job well enough because they ''want to enjoy the game'' and not read up on their class and learn how to better themselves as players. Give me a combat log and a DPS meter already so i can be the best that i can be ^This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seqilan Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 HEIGAN HAD DANCE MECHANICS. hah I made a funny Well it did make me laugh, since I always failed at it in Vanilla I guess I should have stated that I can't recall anything of the sort in recent WoW history (ie last couple of raid tiers ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpins Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I remember plenty of top raiding guilds using pretty elaborate addons for naxx 40, for things like loatheb healer rotations and 4h rotations. IDK THOUGH THAT WAS A LONGASS TIME AGO. Those addons tended to be quickly cobbled together by some one in guild then refined by some one else in another guild before being released to the public . You want to build community? That's how you do it. Quite frankly I just want some UI mods, a couple of buff/debuff timers, a combat log and something to tell me if I'm close to the tanks threat. That being said, I'm all in favour of opening the floodgates. Some of the best mods I used were just random little things that I stumbled on while browsing curse. I quit WoW the day poisoner stopped working - true story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velthome Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Well it did make me laugh, since I always failed at it in Vanilla I guess I should have stated that I can't recall anything of the sort in recent WoW history (ie last couple of raid tiers ) To be fair, Heigan is probably the only really "elaborate" one. (Seriously, Four Horsemen sounds like the most contrived and elaborate fight ever until you actually do it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Your bad experiences do not constitute a meaningful datum on whether or not I should get the game experience which interests me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangenobi Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 WoW is not the only game that uses addons btw Eq2 also uses them..Addons can be very helpful to players and I dont see why they shouldn't be added..if u get kicked from a raid cause your not pulling your own weight then that's life...Addons are not the reason why people are jerks..they are jerks with or without addons. My opinion is if you do not want to use them then don't use them...Don't ruin it for the many people who want to use them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxxorszuLu Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I read a lot about people missing addons. "I need healbots, dpsmeters, threatmeter..." You can do just fine without these, it's just a different game, we just have to adapt. Healbot, for instance, turns a very interesting game into something pulled out of a 90's Nintendo! As for the meters, I have a suggestion: an <End Flashpoint/Operation Report>, just like in the end of Warzones. Voilá, you can consult who's doing their jobs right. DPS, Healing, Protection, MVP vote also (why not?)... It's all there. Please NO addons. Don't turn this very enjoyable game into a big load of numbers popping out of my screen... P.S. I do admit that some customization options on UI are needed. PPL seem to be just against Addons cause they cant handle it, or fear the "wow" feeling. A dps meter is necessary in my eyes, not for my ***** enlargement. Just do figgure out how to deal most dps. Or whats a better rotation/spec. Same for something like power auras, okay i dont need it if they just would have a better solution than the little buffs/debuffs you have to watch at every second. Addons are not bad, if you dont want them dont use them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blargness Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 If dps meters are allowed. Bioware needs to just allow the type that measures said players dps. Not enabling it to measure anyone other then themselves. Otherwise it would create unwanted drama and elitists jerks would start ruining the game for everyone. UI add-ons, I am in favor of those . I hate to tell you but if there isn't a damage meter in the game then players who are jerks will still just '/inspect' people to blame them for the failures of the group as a whole. Not really protecting much by not allowing real time log parsing. If your guild gets on your case about that sort of thing then you need to find a better guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Vs_Blue Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 most of us would like to see them in this game. just as most of us want a server based rdf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dargor- Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) wow, what kind of retarded ammich thread is this? "I don't like X, so nobody should have it" kind of stupid mentality Bet it's the same bunch that also hate the LDF finder Edited January 3, 2012 by dargor- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Disciple Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 SO because you OP prefer to be left in the dark and care not about number analysis the rest of us should be kept in the dark as well. I find this very close minded if you don't want to use mods then by gods don't download them. for those of us that want to know whats going on in the game calculate stat weights and figure out proper rotations addon support is a must or at the very least an exportable combat log. As it stands no analysis is allowed. Abuse by a few shouldn't merit the exclusion of mods from the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandaman Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 All i want is a type of combat log and maybe some UI customization and I will be nice and happy. I can deal with having to click portrait then heal (would be nice to have click healing), but combat logs are needed. You need to know why you cannot beat a specific boss if you plan on being competitive at all. Just something to look at so i know *** it was that hit that tank or dps for so much damage. If it was something avoidable its their fault, if not then pop CD or i missed a heal. At least give me something that I can use to tell what happened during the encounter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaspahX Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 To be fair, Heigan is probably the only really "elaborate" one. (Seriously, Four Horsemen sounds like the most contrived and elaborate fight ever until you actually do it.) Heigan is by far one of the easiest boss encounters in the entire game. If you can't "dance", you probably shouldn't even be raiding. That was an extremely simple concept and people failed at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velthome Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Heigan is by far one of the easiest boss encounters in the entire game. If you can't "dance", you probably shouldn't even be raiding. That was an extremely simple concept and people failed at that. Elaborate in that it's closest thing that comes to mind of what that poster meant by a "dance" fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huhn Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I remember this exact same discussion when Rift was first released and it was just as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gchild Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 i see ppl talking bout no addons no addons... ok i get it the game is fun the game is fun right got that to0 but most ppl who play are in it to win and play to be the best its a mmo who does not want to do better then the other guy? we don't need 30,000 addons but the what u see ppl mostly asking for the addons help players be better at the game best u can be. the players right now are smashing buttons and don't bring up pvp,pvp that dont matter so much aoe is going on would like to know how much i did to that one target i rolled on. i think if they do not start putting more of what players want or maybe talking to us in forums that nice lil number they got now will soon fall cuz there is nothing beside the story pulling us in and **** with that lvling going on im sure there a lore page or something i can read that will sae me $ and time from any other game so i can still feel part of the swtor world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerathule Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'd love to get a DPS meter, just to see how messed up class balance is ... Seriously, if people want to improve themselves as DPS, they need to have a DPS meter to test new specs and rotations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curzed Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 DPS meter will come sooner or later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironspeed Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I love how those who dont like addons call the other side bad players and the people who wants addons call the nay sayers bads It's like a bunch of kindergarden kids *wha wha wha* oO Whats so wrong in getting a option to mess about with the ui and see how well we preform our task to be a better player, I sure as hell aint going to sit and take notes of my scrolling combat text to average my dps (or time to kill some mob I can just spank to death to check my dps that way). As far as DBM style mods I couldent care less, I just want my damn ui changes tbh!!! ! ! !!! !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zolthie Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 We need target of target. We need threat meter. We need damage meter. Badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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