Immerision enhancer: Toggle saber core

[Jimvinny]

This reads like sarcasm, but I'm relatively certain it's not.

 

If you'd read further along, you would see where he stated that the post was in jest.

[Leovinus]

If you'd read further along, you would see where he stated that the post was in jest.

 

Yep, I edited my post accordingly when I went back and got to that point.

[Jimvinny]

Yep, I edited my post accordingly when I went back and got to that point.

 

It's all good then.

[Meepbot]

Why should YOU have the option of changing how I choose to represent myself in the game? That's what this really comes down to. Screw the lore/canon argument, that ship has sailed. If I choose to dress my type 1 female sentinel in the slave girl outfit, well goshdarn, that's how I want everyone to see her. If I choose to run my type 4 scoundrel around the fleet wearing nothing but boots and a cowboy hat, well, that's what people on the fleet get to look at. Next you're going to tell me that since the Cathar weren't something we "grew up with", that implementing this new species should include a toggle to display them as humans.

 

Especially on an RP server, but really, on any of them, this toggle idea of yours totally kills immersion. Much more than a funky-colored lightsaber. And don't tell me I wouldn't know who was using it anyways; Just knowing that there were people out there who could choose to NOT view me as I see fit to present myself would be more than enough to piss me off.

 

Exactly, above all else, this is an MMO. In a game with a lot of players, individuality and customization are VERY important. Taking that away takes away that persons customization and individuality, and even if they dont use this toggle, knowing BW has an option in the game that would reduce their individuality in others eyes would get many people mad. What BW is doing here is taking a piece of lore that has already been established -- Black-core crystals -- and expanding on them to allow players to further increase their customization and individuality (Black-core crystals are an established part of lore, deal with it). This is SWTOR, not SWG, not everything is the same as the movies.

 

Edit:Not saying what you want has something to do with SWG, I meant in terms of time period, making this game different in many ways than the movies, it includes a lot more of the galaxy then the movies did.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Meepbot

[Tim-ONeil]

I'm still just fascinated how a request like this hits such a nerve with some of you. And I certainly appreciate the bumping and arguing as it makes the issue even more visible to the people that might act on it.

 

One thing you are not considering is revenue. Myself I'll never pay for any crystal that does not have a white inner core for reasons I've mentioned. However I would give them money to "unlock" this toggle ability. Revenue is the mightiest of motivators. That's why the black cores are here, that's why the purple/pink are here to get you to purchase something. The reason they have black orange sabers now is to sell them to you, not because they care about the lore.

 

Certainly if there is something that they can do that would take as little time as this that would potentially have a large revenue generation then they will consider it for that reason alone.

 

But fear not, even if you oppose this your other color crystals aren't going away. They will continue to sell them to you and in the end all that matter is what you see on your screen.

 

Once someone is able to crack the game files like we did in SWG I'll just make the client side conversion mod myself and host it anyway, but this is a way for the company to make money on it before it gets to that point.

[LukeSaberRattler]

Once someone is able to crack the game files like we did in SWG I'll just make the client side conversion mod myself and host it anyway, but this is a way for the company to make money on it before it gets to that point.

 

Assuming someone can find a way to crack the files which Bioware is pretty good at checking and then banning users for altering.

 

I will say that I don't have a huge problem with their being a toggle like I said though it takes away from others identities. I would have thought that would be a huge no for the RP crowd. They take pride in the look and setup of their characters and it ties into their backstories and everything else. I am not a roleplayer but I figure that is the whole point of it. Then again they could be the group that only wants white cores what do I know.

Edited November 20, 2012 by LukeSaberRattler

[Meepbot]

I'm still just fascinated how a request like this hits such a nerve with some of you. And I certainly appreciate the bumping and arguing as it makes the issue even more visible to the people that might act on it.

 

One thing you are not considering is revenue. Myself I'll never pay for any crystal that does not have a white inner core for reasons I've mentioned. However I would give them money to "unlock" this toggle ability. Revenue is the mightiest of motivators. That's why the black cores are here, that's why the purple/pink are here to get you to purchase something. The reason they have black orange sabers now is to sell them to you, not because they care about the lore.

 

Certainly if there is something that they can do that would take as little time as this that would potentially have a large revenue generation then they will consider it for that reason alone.

 

But fear not, even if you oppose this your other color crystals aren't going away. They will continue to sell them to you and in the end all that matter is what you see on your screen.

 

Once someone is able to crack the game files like we did in SWG I'll just make the client side conversion mod myself and host it anyway, but this is a way for the company to make money on it before it gets to that point.

 

No black-core crystals are on the market, and I am certainly not buying cartel packs purely for the pink/purple crystal. There is one crystal available for direct purchase on the market (the yellow-orange crystal), and even that is possible to get in packs, so you don't have to spend money on that if you don't want to. I highly doubt people are playing the game just so they can use a black-core crystal. A crystal is a way to express individuality or achievements. So how are these crystals generating revenue? Even if it would take the devs so little time, I would rather they use that hour in a way that doesn't reduce someone's indivuality

[Scovina]

It's not though, a white core/red/pink outer is a VERY different looking lightsaber from a pink core/whatever outer one.

 

The idea that Darth Vader weilded a dark pink lightsaber is fallacious, as it was white cored with a red or magenta outer effect (in SWTOR terms).

 

Yes it was a play on words. What he actually wielded is irrelevant. Pink has long been called light red and vice versa. It does not matter the actual color of it in the movie. This game only takes elements from the movie anyway. It isn't meant to be a direct port. The idea that you can't grasp here is that the core/outer color combination isn't in question. Only the connotation of the words and in that respect you are wrong.

[Scovina]

Not even worth a real response.

 

Then why did you respond at all?

[Tim-ONeil]

No black-core crystals are on the market, and I am certainly not buying cartel packs purely for the pink/purple crystal. There is one crystal available for direct purchase on the market (the yellow-orange crystal), and even that is possible to get in packs, so you don't have to spend money on that if you don't want to. I highly doubt people are playing the game just so they can use a black-core crystal. A crystal is a way to express individuality or achievements. So how are these crystals generating revenue? Even if it would take the devs so little time, I would rather they use that hour in a way that doesn't reduce someone's indivuality

 

This isn't true. A black/orange crystal is available on the cartel market right now.

[Tim-ONeil]

Then why did you respond at all?

 

I think it's pretty obvious.

[LukeSaberRattler]

What they really need to fix is the thickness of all the saber crystals except for blue. Any of them besides blue come out with the blade being way to thick. They need to spend some time on that.

[Scovina]

I know it would not affect me, and if people want it then that's fine, as long as it is optional!

 

 

 

This is the only thing that irks me a little about this topic, the idea that its "not Star Wars" simply because its not a color they like. I grew up with the Star Wars series, Return of the Jedi was one of the first films I ever saw and I don't mind what color lightsaber people use. Yes, the lightsaber is one of the important symbols of the SW world, but I seriously do not see how the color of said lightsaber destroys the fantasy. Is it simply because they don't like the color? Do they think its to "feminine" (I hope people are grown up enough not to think that . . .) Why should the game follow the strict rules of the films anyway? If the books, comics and other games can expanded the culture and style of the SW world, why cant this? That is one of the reasons I love the KOTOR games so much, it allows us to see the SW world in a different style and age!

 

As I said, if enough people want the optional toggle then they should have it! I just don't think you can pass the reasoning behind it as anything more then a personal dislike of color.

 

This exactly. I even read an argument before trying to say Luke would not have seemed as threatening with a pink lightsaber . Let's even throw Vader in for that matter. Let me tell you if I was dueling against someone with a lightsaber the last thing on my mind would be "geez that color is ridiculous." I'd be much more worried about not getting my head cut off.

[Scovina]

I think it's pretty obvious.

 

The only obvious thing is you added nothing to the discussion.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Scovina

[Malastare]

I'm still just fascinated how a request like this hits such a nerve with some of you.

 

I don't see the mystery. You declared that your opinions of Star Wars trumped Lucas, Chee, and Lucasarts. That's a pretty contentious thing to say.

 

Once someone is able to crack the game files like we did in SWG I'll just make the client side conversion mod myself and host it anyway, but this is a way for the company to make money on it before it gets to that point.

 

This isn't meant to be a threat, just a warning: Changing those files may have consequences you don't like, including having them continually updated by the launcher, preventing updates from applying correctly, or getting yourself banned for violating the ToS. Editing user resources in competitive online games is not something to do lightly. Making the files available for others might be a further violation, possibly with legal rammifications. Yeah, yeah. SWG. I get it. SWG was perfect and was the pinnacle of Star Wars gaming. This is a larger, different beast, with direct involvement from Lucasarts. If you feel like modifying their IP and hosting it, then... you're far braver than I am.

[Tim-ONeil]

This isn't meant to be a threat, just a warning: Changing those files may have consequences you don't like, including having them continually updated by the launcher, preventing updates from applying correctly, or getting yourself banned for violating the ToS. Editing user resources in competitive online games is not something to do lightly. Making the files available for others might be a further violation, possibly with legal rammifications. Yeah, yeah. SWG. I get it. SWG was perfect and was the pinnacle of Star Wars gaming. This is a larger, different beast, with direct involvement from Lucasarts. If you feel like modifying their IP and hosting it, then... you're far braver than I am.

 

Client side appearance mods have never been an issue in other games, and they will be popular once available here. No worries.

[Tim-ONeil]

I don't see the mystery. You declared that your opinions of Star Wars trumped Lucas, Chee, and Lucasarts. That's a pretty contentious thing to say.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon

 

Hardly. Please see the Holocron section. Lightsabers and what they are and are not are G canon. That's my view on it and it's completely justified by the supporting documentation. You can expand your own 'version' of what you want to consider official but I'm just going off what we've used for a long time to determine it.

[Malastare]

Client side appearance mods have never been an issue in other games, and they will be popular once available here. No worries.

 

Ha.

 

The last decade of online multiplayer gaming disagrees with you. In games that support appearance mods, yes, they are encouraged. SWTOR does not support appearance mods. As I read the TOS, modifying game files for any reason is a violation, even if its just to adjust a color to something you like better. See, its hard for the game to tell whether you modified the textures applied to lightsabers to make the colors more appealing to you, or whether you modified the textures applied to rocks or walls to make them transparent. The former is a trivial tweak, the later is a serious cheat.

 

In the last decade, multiplayer games have expended a lot of effort in verifying that users are not modifying client-side appearance resources. And they've done that because it's one of the more popular hacks that people use. You're free to roll the dice on this, but from what I've heard SWTOR does have anti-cheat detection of some sort, and fiddling with those files is very likely to trip it.

[Xiahoufig]

I support the toggle option, purely because I support choice. Anything that gives players' a choice to how to make their game experience more enjoyable is a-ok with me. (With exception being to things that would fundamentally break the game.)

 

However, I disagree with attempting to use 'G'-Canon as justification for what can and cannot be in anything that takes place in the EU, such as this game. If it were up to the 'purists' (not saying you are one, mind you) blasters would only fire red bolts, Sith would only ever be dark-side aligned and use red sabers, jedi would only ever be light side aligned and use use blue/green sabers, and many of the species currently available in-game wouldn't exist because they didn't appear in the movie trilogies (Chiss, miraluka, and pureblood sith are just a few that spring to mind). Though, in my opinion, a purist playing this game is point blank a hypocrite.

[Cyberwoman]

I absolutely agree. If this was popular enough to gather even an estimated 20% of the current players, then I'd be fine with adding the option, as developer time allowed.

 

My main issues with the request is the patently-false argument of "It's not Star Wars" and the insistence that it is a more worthwhile use of developer time than a dozen other visual tweaks or options. Though, in truth, the major problem is the former, as it's still right there in the subject: "Immersion". Immersion plays no part in this request.

 

I agree with you 100%. This has nothing to do with the feel of the game or the core story aspects (Its not like NPC's are suddenly going to be swinging pink lightsaber's around during class missions! Not that I have any problems with that anyway!) Its a personal thing and nothing more.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Cyberwoman

[Shoogli]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon

 

Hardly. Please see the Holocron section. Lightsabers and what they are and are not are G canon. That's my view on it and it's completely justified by the supporting documentation.

 

Eeerr no it's not : Darksaber is T, SWTOR is C, if not S like SWG.

 

T is above C & S.

[Tim-ONeil]

I support the toggle option, purely because I support choice. Anything that gives players' a choice to how to make their game experience more enjoyable is a-ok with me. (With exception being to things that would fundamentally break the game.)

 

However, I disagree with attempting to use 'G'-Canon as justification for what can and cannot be in anything that takes place in the EU, such as this game. If it were up to the 'purists' (not saying you are one, mind you) blasters would only fire red bolts, Sith would only ever be dark-side aligned and use red sabers, jedi would only ever be light side aligned and use use blue/green sabers, and many of the species currently available in-game wouldn't exist because they didn't appear in the movie trilogies (Chiss, miraluka, and pureblood sith are just a few that spring to mind). Though, in my opinion, a purist playing this game is point blank a hypocrite.

 

That's just it though, I'm not saying they can't sell those other sabers and I'm fine with it. I'd like the OPTION to see a G-canon level sabers in the game. That would increase my own immersion (and I know I'm not the only one). That's all this is. It's been ridiculed by a select few people that take exception to that. No worries there, revenue generation is the bottom line here.

[Xiahoufig]

That's just it though, I'm not saying they can't sell those other sabers and I'm fine with it. I'd like the OPTION to see a G-canon level sabers in the game. That would increase my own immersion (and I know I'm not the only one). That's all this is. It's been ridiculed by a select few people that take exception to that. No worries there, revenue generation is the bottom line here.

 

I hear ya. My second part is directed more towards those who are more openly hostile about other colors existing besides red,blue and green and even on who can use them. My dislike of certain colors comes solely from an aesthetic standpoint. Pink/purple is just hideous, lol. (Orange/yellow isn't much better.)

[Lostpenguins]

In the last decade, multiplayer games have expended a lot of effort in verifying that users are not modifying client-side appearance resources. And they've done that because it's one of the more popular hacks that people use. You're free to roll the dice on this, but from what I've heard SWTOR does have anti-cheat detection of some sort, and fiddling with those files is very likely to trip it.

I can confirm in WoW that even on your own side, changing stuff that you see is a violation. You could exploit so that a weapon or item someone is holding looks like something else easily identifiable, thus giving you an edge. Maybe that's why it was banned.

[Goretzu]

Yes it was a play on words. What he actually wielded is irrelevant. Pink has long been called light red and vice versa. It does not matter the actual color of it in the movie. This game only takes elements from the movie anyway. It isn't meant to be a direct port. The idea that you can't grasp here is that the core/outer color combination isn't in question. Only the connotation of the words and in that respect you are wrong.

 

White is NOT pink or red.

 

I don't understand why you cannot grasp that.