Immerision enhancer: Toggle saber core

[Xiahoufig]

I can confirm in WoW that even on your own side, changing stuff that you see is a violation. You could exploit so that a weapon or item someone is holding looks like something else easily identifiable, thus giving you an edge. Maybe that's why it was banned.

 

If you're talking about changing an NPC or an enviroment piece, yeah that's bad. However, WoW added Transmogrification last expansion that allowed players to change what their gear looked like. There are restrictions (for example, a piece of plate can't be changed to look like a piece of cloth gear and you can't turn a 1h sword into a 2h mace) but it's been pretty well received.

[Lostpenguins]

If you're talking about changing an NPC or an enviroment piece, yeah that's bad. However, WoW added Transmogrification last expansion that allowed players to change what their gear looked like. There are restrictions (for example, a piece of plate can't be changed to look like a piece of cloth gear and you can't turn a 1h sword into a 2h mace) but it's been pretty well received.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. I made my Enh Shaman look like he was wielding Illidan's blades while wearing plate before the mod was banned.

 

See, WoW eventually added an in-game one to what they felt was appropriate. Basically, they don't allow the user to tailor item skins to whatever they want. And that's the point we're making. That client-side mods aren't allowed in WoW... so they probably would be bannable here as well so we're warning the guy: be careful.

[Panthian]

All lightsabers have a white core. Now you know what we are discussing and you can choose to respond on the same page as the rest of us.

 

Actually that isnt true, a "real"saber would be a single collor, a purple light saber would be.. purple not purple with a white core, they white core in movies/comics/games is there mostly to put an accent on it being.. light.

From a pure realism point of view the pink core would be closer to what an actual saber would look like then white.

It can be argued due to the way eyes work that the core of a purple saber is a tad pale.

Base collors like red dont seem to suffer that problem, again due to the way eyes function.

 

I dont have a problem with pink purple, other then the pink is too distinct different, my gripe is with the black base sabers. I DO use a black base saber (black blue) but thats mostly because at the time it was the best stat availeble and atleast for now my money is better spent else where then on pure cosmetics.

 

That said, it is understandeble people want to have something.. different, part of the attraction of the black base sabers is they give a high end feel to them, parcially related to having had the same few collors from ~10-50 .

 

The collors given to jedi/sith depending on their status/class/function in the stories isnt done so much for the sake of lore, but more to make an vissual distinction again mostly to make it easy to follow the story. The saber (and its collor) really is entirely upto the wielder.

Looking back in RL history knights had complete freedom in the design of their sword, granted due to practical reasons there never where huge differences in the lemmet but mostly in the hilt and sheet.

 

Dont forget the orginal story originates from a very simplistic moral check, light = dark= evil, rebels good empire bad.

Empire does empire things for the sake of being evil, ofcourse this is the over simplefied version but it isnt even that far off. Then look at the 3 later movies, mostly part 2 and 3 where its clear that the ulitimate goal of the emperor/empire isnt even that far off as that of the senate and the republic, the main difference is in the way they intent to reach that goal.

[Goretzu]

Actually that isnt true, a "real"saber would be a single collor, a purple light saber would be.. purple not purple with a white core, they white core in movies/comics/games is there mostly to put an accent on it being.. light.

From a pure realism point of view the pink core would be closer to what an actual saber would look like then white.

It can be argued due to the way eyes work that the core of a purple saber is a tad pale.

Base collors like red dont seem to suffer that problem, again due to the way eyes function.

 

 

Well actually with the way plasma produces light it would produce less light in the centre as it would be hotter (and more on the edges as it would be cooler)........ but then real life plasma doesn't get its colour from "crystals" (and lightsabers wouldn't if they followed real life physics either ).

[Tim-ONeil]

Well actually with the way plasma produces light it would produce less light in the centre as it would be hotter (and more on the edges as it would be cooler)........ but then real life plasma doesn't get its colour from "crystals" (and lightsabers wouldn't if they followed real life physics either ).

 

Lol I was going to ignore that post as the most off topic and longest I've seen in a while.

[Graydon]

What a waste of development resources.

 

The popularity of the Cartel Crystals has shown most players would not use the toggle.

[Panthian]

Well actually with the way plasma produces light it would produce less light in the centre as it would be hotter (and more on the edges as it would be cooler)........ but then real life plasma doesn't get its colour from "crystals" (and lightsabers wouldn't if they followed real life physics either ).

 

Parcially right, the base would be brighter, but not white.

granted this isnt a real light saber but it still shows the principle.

 

http://theswca.com/images-produ/mr-vader-prototype2.jpg

As you can see the whole saber is glowing red, the base IS brghter but still IS red.

[Malastare]

Hardly. Please see the Holocron section. Lightsabers and what they are and are not are G canon. That's my view on it and it's completely justified by the supporting documentation. You can expand your own 'version' of what you want to consider official but I'm just going off what we've used for a long time to determine it.

 

Sorry, but you're mis-applying the idea of canon. If we take your approach, again, Chiss are not part of Star Wars, because G canon defines what species do and do not exist.

 

This is false because the canon levels are almost exclusively applied in the positive direction. That is, facts are declared in a canon level. Failure to state a fact, or stating a fact which does not preclude other facts is not proof against those facts. Thus: Just because we never see a bronze lightsaber in G-canon should not be interpreted as a statement that G-canon declares there are no bronze lightsabers. G-canon neither confirms nor denies their existence. In such a case, it falls to the lower canon levels to decide.

 

G-canon says that blue, green, red and purple lightsabers exist. Further background shots confirm that yellow and pale green and cyan light sabers exist. That does not prove that other lightsabers colors don't exist, in exactly the same way that the lack of Chiss in G-canon does not prove that Chiss do not exist.

 

Moving on... SWTOR lives happily in C-canon. This means that it inherits, by default, all parts of the universe that exist in C-canon, unless they are contradicted by T-canon or G-canon (the latter two taking precedence, respectively). There are plenty of examples of alternate lightsaber colors in C-canon, and even more importantly, in T-canon.

 

And again, G-canon never states that lightsaber colors are restricted to just what we see. So, there is no contradiction between the canon levels and our game, down in C-canon, has any of the lightsaber colors that we find in C-canon.

 

And, yes, there is one last bit of pain for you: Since SWTOR is firmly in C-canon and has the direct backing of Lucasarts, it can create new colors never seen before, and they become part of C-canon. Then other books and comics can pick them up and use them. And it can get elevated from there. The Force Unleashed included a white-with-black-core lightsaber. At that point, black-core lightsabers were C-canon. Then, the idea got promoted when Lucas created the Darksaber for the Clone Wars series. Now, dark core lightsabers are T-canon. Now, even if a C-canon source tried to state that dark core sabers didn't exist, it would be overruled by T-canon.

[Elear]

Well actually with the way plasma produces light it would produce less light in the centre as it would be hotter (and more on the edges as it would be cooler)........ but then real life plasma doesn't get its colour from "crystals" (and lightsabers wouldn't if they followed real life physics either ).

 

Lightsabers are round, there is no "middle", because only edges can be seen.

 

Actually that isnt true, a "real"saber would be a single collor, a purple light saber would be.. purple not purple with a white core, they white core in movies/comics/games is there mostly to put an accent on it being.. light.

From a pure realism point of view the pink core would be closer to what an actual saber would look like then white.

It can be argued due to the way eyes work that the core of a purple saber is a tad pale.

Base collors like red dont seem to suffer that problem, again due to the way eyes function.

 

I dont have a problem with pink purple, other then the pink is too distinct different, my gripe is with the black base sabers. I DO use a black base saber (black blue) but thats mostly because at the time it was the best stat availeble and atleast for now my money is better spent else where then on pure cosmetics.

 

Same issue, since sabers are round, they emit light from all sides. Light seen on sides isn't emited directly at viewer, but from middle is, and this makes "core" more intense. More intense version of purple is pink. Even more intense is white.

 

Black IS strange, but whatever.

[Tim-ONeil]

Sorry, but you're mis-applying the idea of canon. If we take your approach, again, Chiss are not part of Star Wars, because G canon defines what species do and do not exist.

 

You can't 'win' this because it's opinion based.

 

Nothing you post will change my mind that in the movies, which I hold to be a true representation of the IP, the lightsaber has a white core. That's all I'm asking for, and I've laid out how it can be done and the potential money it will bring in since people that share my view aren't spending cartel points unlocking the 'special' crystals like the black/orange that is in the shop but we would pay for this option.

 

If you prefer those other colors nothing changes for you, both camps are appeased and in some people's minds the game becomes more 'Star Warsy'. There really isn't a down side to this unless you just want to argue, and if so I don't mind the bumps for exposure to this thread.

 

If you still can't accept that...

 

Edited November 20, 2012 by Tim-ONeil

[Malastare]

You can't 'win' this because it's opinion based.

 

This isn't a competition or a debate. There is no concept of 'winning'.

 

I'm not presenting an alternate opinion. I'm quoting you the information laid out over a couple decades by Lucasarts and Leland Chee, who is responsible for sorting out what is and isn't "true" in the Star Wars universe.

 

I'm telling you what they say, and you're telling me that they are wrong and your opinion is what matters.

 

I'm reminded of the people who argued with J. R. R. Tolkien, insisting that 'Lord of the Rings' was an allegory for World War II, despite his own statements to the contrary.

 

Nothing you post will change my mind that in the movies, which I hold to be a true representation of the IP, the lightsaber has a white core.

 

The movies also make no reference to Korriban or Nal Hutta. I expect that you won't ever be playing any Empire characters.

[emeria]

Hear, hear!

 

The only acceptable colors for lightsabers are: Acid yellow, amber, amethyst, aqua, azure, black/white, blue, dark blue, icy blue, bright gold, bronze, bronze/yellow, brown, burgundy, carmine, clear, cobalt, crimson, cyan, cyan/silver, electric blue, emerald, gold, gray, green, dark green, jade, light green, sage, green/black, indigo, lava, magenta, orange, white, pewter, pink, purple, red, blood red, dark red, light red, sapphire, scarlet, sickly green, silver, silver-blue, silver-green, teal, violet, dark violet, light violet, viridian, yellow, dark yellow, light yellow, white-yellow, yellow-green, and yellow-orange.

 

Nowhere in that list is pink/purple, and I feel insulted that SWTOR would include such a slap-in-the-face diversion from SW lore.

 

"The following is a list of all known blade colors."

Edited November 20, 2012 by emeria

[Tim-ONeil]

There are 4 opinions here.

 

1. Some people agree that a toggle option would be nice to have.

 

2. Some of the people reading this thread do not have the reading comprehension to realize this is talking about the internal part of the saber core. Their posts are amusing.

 

3. Some people are insulted to know that if this were ever implemented that they wouldn't be able to force you to see their chosen black core saber.

 

4. A few people are trying to argue over what is or isn't another fan's preference for a lightsaber appearance in spite of the movie definitions and are prepared to go to extreme lengths to try to prove that anyone that doesn't like the black/or colored core option should just get over it.

 

 

There's a really interesting dynamic here and all of it over a simple suggestion which would place the decision in the hands of the user. Apparently 2 of the opinions are afraid of what that would mean and want to restrict that choice.

 

All of this over an appearance mod...

 

To the point though threads like this and the debate they generate pretty much validate why the few rule the many in this world. In any debate at least 1/4 of the people participating don't understand the topic. Thankfully here Bioware is the few and we are the many. If they add the option based on this suggestion then you get more choices in your game play.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Tim-ONeil

[Malastare]

There are 4 opinions here.

 

Missing one:

 

5. Some people feel that an individual's opinions should not trump the decisions of the author of a universe.

[Lostpenguins]

There are 4 opinions here.

 

1. Some people agree that a toggle option would be nice to have.

 

2. Some of the people reading this thread do not have the reading comprehension to realize this is talking about the internal part of the saber core. Their posts are amusing.

 

3. Some people are insulted to know that if this were ever implemented that they wouldn't be able to force you to see their chosen black core saber.

 

4. A few people are trying to argue over what is or isn't another fan's preference for a lightsaber appearance in spite of the movie definitions and are prepared to go to extreme lengths to try to prove that anyone that doesn't like the black/or colored core option should just get over it.

 

 

There's a really interesting dynamic here and all of it over a simple suggestion which would place the decision in the hands of the user. Apparently 2 of the opinions are afraid of what that would mean and want to restrict that choice.

 

All of this over an appearance mod...

 

To the point though threads like this and the debate they generate pretty much validate why the few rule the many in this world. In any debate at least 1/4 of the people participating don't understand the topic. Thankfully here Bioware is the few and we are the many. If they add the option based on this suggestion then you get more choices in your game play.

I love how you try to come from a civilized, enlightened place... then make the stupid statement of "at least 1/4 of the people". Throwing out random percentages... yeah... that gives merit to your argument.

 

Oh wait... it doesn't.

 

I don't care if they allow a toggle or not. Doesn't bother me if, on your screen, you see something different from me. But I'd rather them focus on other things than waste resources on a toggle button just because some people don't like certain saber colors. If it's a quick fix, go for it. If it's going to take a lot of time and man-power, then no.

[Tim-ONeil]

Missing one:

 

5. Some people feel that an individual's opinions should not trump the decisions of the author of a universe.

 

No, are a definitely part of #4 on that list. But either way thanks for the bump.

[Panthian]

 

4. A few people are trying to argue over what is or isn't another fan's preference for a lightsaber appearance in spite of the movie definitions and are prepared to go to extreme lengths to try to prove that anyone that doesn't like the black/or colored core option should just get over it.

So using your own logic here. a white core would be wrong as well, sabers should be 1 collor.

 

 

All of this over an appearance mod...

Strong is the irony. not to mention what you are asking for IS against the lore, even fan fabricated lore.

[Tim-ONeil]

I love how you try to come from a civilized, enlightened place... then make the stupid statement of "at least 1/4 of the people". Throwing out random percentages... yeah... that gives merit to your argument.

 

Weird I thought that was how it worked on this forum. I have made posts before that are entirely factual with the most accurate numbers available see here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=547927 and I'm told that people know more based on their 'gut' since data has no meaning.

 

Had I just put in my post at the beginning that I believe no more than 100k people play this game and it's going to die so they better add this fast I'm sure I would have had a much more positive response from the people here. (Sarcasm, but the reaction would be true)

 

I am willing to conclude based on everything I've observed in my life that saying only 25% of people that read something are completely clueless to what it actually means is being generous.

[Malastare]

No, are a definitely part of #4 on that list. But either way thanks for the bump.

 

No, I am fully aware of what your opinion is, and what you preference is. I don't doubt that you are speaking truthfully or sincerely. I understand your point of view perfectly and your motivations make sense to me.

 

I just don't believe that your preference is more important than the choices of the people who created the Star Wars universe. I don't believe that you are terribly familiar with Star Wars lore, and you seem to believe this makes your opinion worth more. Contrary to the subject of the post, you are not seeking a closer tie to immersion or lore, but with a degraded, limited scope that matches only what your opinion states as being worthwhile. In short: You think your opinion is more important than Lucasarts'.

[Scovina]

I think the biggest problem I have with this is the fact that I cannot toggle somebody's hood on or off to suit my personality. So I think the same should be for the lightsabers. What is being asked is for you to be able to control something I want for my character. If it happens then it does but this is a very slippery slope here. What people are asking for isn't more control or options to choose from in their game. They are asking for more control and options over other peoples game. I get it we are all a part of an ever expanding environment but if I can't toggle your hood on or off to suit my whimsy because I think you look wrong you shouldn't get the option to change my lightsaber to suit yours.

[Panthian]

Weird I thought that was how it worked on this forum. I have made posts before that are entirely factual with the most accurate numbers available see here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=547927 and I'm told that people know more based on their 'gut' since data has no meaning.

 

Had I just put in my post at the beginning that I believe no more than 100k people play this game and it's going to die so they better add this fast I'm sure I would have had a much more positive response from the people here. (Sarcasm, but the reaction would be true)

 

I am willing to conclude based on everything I've observed in my life that saying only 25% of people that read something are completely clueless to what it actually means is being generous.

 

Since you are basing on movies.

 

Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader disagree with your Green-white and Red-white sabers.

[Tim-ONeil]

In short: You think your opinion is more important than Lucasarts'.

 

I don't think that's unreasonable. We are their customers. Asking for a choice is fine, defining why I feel it's warranted is fine. If they choose to ignore it... that's fine too. I'm sure that no one there is taking this request nearly as personally as you seem to be however.

 

As an individual I'm not important but games aren't created in a vacuum. If you make a game that doesn't appeal to a wide audience in the MMO space you'll fail. I understand the need for the dark/color cored sabers to give them something to 'sell' to a more diverse crowd and there are people that love them. I really don't like them at all and I'm not alone. I'm proposing a solution to the issue that also raises revenue and provides both camps something they want. Everyone wins like that.

 

In business you need to show the cost effectiveness of a project to get it approved, I deal with this on a daily basis in my own work. I also have experience coding and I can tell you the resources to get this completed are minimal.

 

Still you've made it clear you aren't a supporter of it because of 'artistic' right and I respect that because it's your opinion. But that doesn't invalidate the idea for the toggle in the least.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Tim-ONeil

[CosmicKat]

Having any sort of toggle that locally changes appearance is not a good idea in a roleplaying game.

 

How your character looks, gear included, is an important aspect to roleplay. Lots of people, myself included, don't give a rat's butt about stats on an item and will choose something that looks cool over something uber leet any day of the week.

 

Color of sabers is minor, but the concept of localizing appearances to each user's preference is just a bad idea. If it changes for me, it should change for everybody, such as hood toggles.

[Malastare]

Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader disagree with your Green-white and Red-white sabers.

 

Oh no! Vader had a magenta-pink lightsaber! We must change all red lightsabers to have a pink core.

[Jedi_Wannabe]

If they add the option based on this suggestion then you get more choices in your game play.

 

EA will never add this feature, as much as I would like them to do so. If you can change the appearance of lightsaber crystals with a mod, where is the market to sell new color crystals for Cartel Coins?