Malastare Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I certainly love the enthusiasm in those who are opposed to something that they wouldn't ever use or know others are using. Actually something like this takes very little dev power since no new objects are created but thanks for the bumps guys. So, you've given up on your "It's contrary to Lore!" argument, then? As long as you're willing to admit that this is nothing more than: "I don't like how it looks, give me an option to make it how I want it to look", then I'm fine with it. However, at that point, I'd say its still a waste of developer resources, as there are loads of other things I'd want them to change the look of, and catering to my desires should be no less important than catering to yours. And yours are actually asking for them to produce a less immersive game experience that runs counter to Star Wars lore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauksbokT Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 pink/purple is not star wars. So with the release of the cartel packs these terrible looking sabers are everywhere because of their high stats. For the people that actually appreciate the holy grail of star wars immersion, i.e the lightsaber, this is really an eye sore. Last night i did a bt run on a new bh and the other 3 people in the party all had the hideous saber. It's everywhere because it's best in slot for level 10-50 i'd like to see a toggle system (and i'd be willing to pay to unlock with coins it to cover dev costs) that will change all saber cores on my screen to a white internal core. This allows the person who thinks that the purple/pink or red/black saber looks awesome to see it on their screen without reminding me how silly it looks every time i see it. To me it would look purple with a while core or red with a while core. They still see the red/black that they wanted to see. I think this is might be quite popular as many people enjoy star wars lore and having the toggle appeases both audiences. I realize that ugly sabers are here to stay but it really takes away from the connection with star wars. Swinging a saber from candyland isn't inspiring. To further clarify what i mean: Examine this image from dulfy. http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/colorcrystalspanel3.jpg the lightsabers on the left are star wars based, all lightsabers in the movies and star wars lore have a central white core with a colored outer glow. This is the case in each of the 6 movies. The lightsabers on the right are not star wars, they are exactly what i would do if i wanted to have an item similar to a lightsaber in a non star wars licensed game if i was a game designer. Notice how each of the black or colored cores has an opposite "cannon" version. The toggle i'm requesting will change the lightsaber on the right to the lightsaber on the left for people that desire it. What it means to you if you like the ugly sabers. Absolutely nothing. You still see your awesome pink/purple popsicle and the people that don't want to look at it don't have to. It's a win win and will allow us to at least pretend that keeping a game 'starwarsy' (one of the biggest complaints about swg was it wasn't starwarsy enough ironically) is important to a portion of the fan base. u mad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 So, you've given up on your "It's contrary to Lore!" argument, then? As long as you're willing to admit that this is nothing more than: "I don't like how it looks, give me an option to make it how I want it to look", then I'm fine with it. However, at that point, I'd say its still a waste of developer resources, as there are loads of other things I'd want them to change the look of, and catering to my desires should be no less important than catering to yours. And yours are actually asking for them to produce a less immersive game experience that runs counter to Star Wars lore. I'm not giving up on that. There are certain pieces of every IP that are the iconic symbols of the brand. The lightsaber is one of them. A black or colored core isn't part of the star wars experience for people that grew up with it. Site whatever you want but understand to many of us that is the ultimate symbol of the jedi/sith and it's an eyesore. It was distasteful but tolerable prior to the purple/pink and now they are so common its really just reinforcing a blatant disregard for the brand. Aside from disagreeing just to prove your knowledge of obscure SW lore I really don't see the point in continuing to argue against something like this... It has the ability to pay for itself with cartel coins, and would not take a lot of effort. And if you don't like the idea well then you'd never know who is using it anyway. Again, haters gonna hate. So please continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scovina Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Hear, hear! The only acceptable colors for lightsabers are: Acid yellow, amber, amethyst, aqua, azure, black/white, blue, dark blue, icy blue, bright gold, bronze, bronze/yellow, brown, burgundy, carmine, clear, cobalt, crimson, cyan, cyan/silver, electric blue, emerald, gold, gray, green, dark green, jade, light green, sage, green/black, indigo, lava, magenta, orange, white, pewter, pink, purple, red, blood red, dark red, light red, sapphire, scarlet, sickly green, silver, silver-blue, silver-green, teal, violet, dark violet, light violet, viridian, yellow, dark yellow, light yellow, white-yellow, yellow-green, and yellow-orange. Nowhere in that list is pink/purple, and I feel insulted that SWTOR would include such a slap-in-the-face diversion from SW lore. You seem to miss the part of the article that says that is a list of KNOWN colors. The wording implicates other colors could be out there and know we have found another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 This. Oh and Darth Vader's original saber was a dark pink. In the films? It was in SWTOR terms a white core reddy/magenta outer effectively. Obi-wan's and Luke's being a white-core/light blue. No idea why you think it was a pink core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scovina Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I certainly love the enthusiasm in those who are opposed to something that they wouldn't ever use or know others are using. Actually something like this takes very little dev power since no new objects are created but thanks for the bumps guys. Just to clarify the reason hood up hood down is on hold is because of the art resources. This is a simple change script request and they could make money off it. A coder could complete this in under an hour. Haters gonna hate This isn't "haters gonna hate". It has devolved into an argument of canon vs non canon color which it is not. You are correct that it would be an easy fix though I don't know that it would be as simple as the hood toggle but pretty close. I for one would not mind it in game especially for RP servers. I do not play on one but I can see why it may frustrate some. I play Sith myself and while I prefer being one I get tired of the red color. This is why I change my crystals frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scovina Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) In the films? It was in SWTOR terms a white core reddy/magenta outer effectively. Obi-wan's and Luke's being a white-core/light blue. No idea why you think it was a pink core. It is a play on words. Red is dark pink although technically pink is light red. Try not to be so literal with everything. Edited November 20, 2012 by Scovina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaac Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Wow so much arguing because someone wants an option for their own client to display something differently? Any would think the OP is demanding these crystals be removed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 Wow so much arguing because someone wants an option for their own client to display something differently? Any would think the OP is demanding these crystals be removed! I know. People often stand in the way of progress just because they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Site whatever you want but understand to many of us that is the ultimate symbol of the jedi/sith and it's an eyesore. It was distasteful but tolerable prior to the purple/pink and now they are so common its really just reinforcing a blatant disregard for the brand. I'm citing established canon of a greater or equal level than the game, including examples of alternate lightsaber colors, including black cores, from T-Level canon, which is just below the level of the movies. This is the definition of the universe as defined by Lucasfilm... you know... the people who created it, including Lucas himself. You're citing... your opinion. Or are you citing ignorance? Are you saying that your position is stronger because you know less about the Star Wars universe? Are arguments more convincing if you can gather together a whole bunch of people who don't really understand the background on a subject? Aside from disagreeing just to prove your knowledge of obscure SW lore I really don't see the point in continuing to argue against something like this... I'm disagreeing because you are requesting to move the game away from established lore. You're asking to rewrite the universe to fit your whims, with the full knowledge that your whims disagree with the universe Lucas created. You're attempting to toss aside existing Lore, simply because you decided that you didn't like it. How about this: I'll happily support your request if the same check box also disables Korriban and Tython and Hutta and Belsavis. We can discuss whether it should disable Alderaan and Corellia. We'll call it the "Enable Original Trilogy" mode. If you're not cool with that, then you have to admit that your request is nothing more than: "I want the game to look this way. Regardless of what Lucasarts says." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) I'm citing established canon of a greater or equal level than the game, including examples of alternate lightsaber colors, including black cores, from T-Level canon, which is just below the level of the movies. This is the definition of the universe as defined by Lucasfilm... you know... the people who created it, including Lucas himself. You're citing... your opinion. Or are you citing ignorance? Are you saying that your position is stronger because you know less about the Star Wars universe? Are arguments more convincing if you can gather together a whole bunch of people who don't really understand the background on a subject? I'm disagreeing because you are requesting to move the game away from established lore. You're asking to rewrite the universe to fit your whims, with the full knowledge that your whims disagree with the universe Lucas created. You're attempting to toss aside existing Lore, simply because you decided that you didn't like it. How about this: I'll happily support your request if the same check box also disables Korriban and Tython and Hutta and Belsavis. We can discuss whether it should disable Alderaan and Corellia. We'll call it the "Enable Original Trilogy" mode. If you're not cool with that, then you have to admit that your request is nothing more than: "I want the game to look this way. Regardless of what Lucasarts says." And with that... I'll stop responding to you. Now you are just being silly. But I appreciate the bump. Thanks for posting. It doesn't matter whatsoever if you support it or not. Edited November 20, 2012 by Tim-ONeil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 It is a play on words. Red is dark pink although technically pink is light red. Try not to be so literal with everything. It's not though, a white core/red/pink outer is a VERY different looking lightsaber from a pink core/whatever outer one. The idea that Darth Vader weilded a dark pink lightsaber is fallacious, as it was white cored with a red or magenta outer effect (in SWTOR terms). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I'm not giving up on that. There are certain pieces of every IP that are the iconic symbols of the brand. The lightsaber is one of them. A black or colored core isn't part of the star wars experience for people that grew up with it. Site whatever you want but understand to many of us that is the ultimate symbol of the jedi/sith and it's an eyesore. It was distasteful but tolerable prior to the purple/pink and now they are so common its really just reinforcing a blatant disregard for the brand. Aside from disagreeing just to prove your knowledge of obscure SW lore I really don't see the point in continuing to argue against something like this... It has the ability to pay for itself with cartel coins, and would not take a lot of effort. And if you don't like the idea well then you'd never know who is using it anyway. Again, haters gonna hate. So please continue. Why should YOU have the option of changing how I choose to represent myself in the game? That's what this really comes down to. Screw the lore/canon argument, that ship has sailed. If I choose to dress my type 1 female sentinel in the slave girl outfit, well goshdarn, that's how I want everyone to see her. If I choose to run my type 4 scoundrel around the fleet wearing nothing but boots and a cowboy hat, well, that's what people on the fleet get to look at. Next you're going to tell me that since the Cathar weren't something we "grew up with", that implementing this new species should include a toggle to display them as humans. Especially on an RP server, but really, on any of them, this toggle idea of yours totally kills immersion. Much more than a funky-colored lightsaber. And don't tell me I wouldn't know who was using it anyways; Just knowing that there were people out there who could choose to NOT view me as I see fit to present myself would be more than enough to piss me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 The idea that Darth Vader weilded a dark pink lightsaber is fallacious, as it was white cored with a red or magenta outer effect (in SWTOR terms). They might have been (semi) joking. In some of the digital re-edits of Empire, the recoloring of the sabers seems to have gone overboard. Or perhaps it was color-correction gone awry. Whatever it is, there are a number of scenes where Vader's lightsaber is distinctly pink in the center. Not white with a pink or magenta glow, which could have been argued before, but fully pink. I don't think anyone has actually seriously argued that this is anything more than a editing glitch. Found an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nydus Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I wouldn't exactly call it an eye-sore but all my characters have white cores on their "lightsabers" (not necessarily on guns, if they have them). The exception would be the black-core purple lightsaber. I don't find that one "candyish". - Arcada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-ONeil Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 And don't tell me I wouldn't know who was using it anyways; Just knowing that there were people out there who could choose to NOT view me as I see fit to present myself would be more than enough to piss me off. Not even worth a real response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meepbot Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 And with that... I'll stop responding to you. Now you are just being silly. But I appreciate the bump. Thanks for posting. It doesn't matter whatsoever if you support it or not. Its exactly what youre saying though. You are asking to have a client side toggle that ignores canon outside the movies so lightsabers only appear with a white core. That "suggestion" was asking for a client side toggle that ignores canon outside the movies so those planets look different or more like other planets from the movies, or take them out all together. and to all the people that think people feel like they have to use black-core crystals because they have the best stats, There is a color available for every crystal in the game that has end game stats, they are not even hard to get, there is no reason someone should feel like they have to use a black-core saber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I think that the whole blue-skin-and-red-eyes on Chiss is really assaulting on my eyes. Chiss were never part of the movies. They're not part of Star Wars that any of us grew up with. I want a toggle that displays Chiss with nice medium-tan skin and brown eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Pink/Purple is not Star Wars. And we're done. Right there. You just stated YOUR opinion as fact. An opinion which is completely contrary to a company that has licensing rights by Lucas Arts. Therefore, you lose. Goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberwoman Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) Doesnt matter. Some people just do not get on with the colour and even feel sick looking at it. How would a toggle affect YOUR game play experience? Answer: it wouldn't. Options are always good.... Driz I know it would not affect me, and if people want it then that's fine, as long as it is optional! I'm not giving up on that. There are certain pieces of every IP that are the iconic symbols of the brand. The lightsaber is one of them. A black or colored core isn't part of the star wars experience for people that grew up with it. Site whatever you want but understand to many of us that is the ultimate symbol of the jedi/sith and it's an eyesore. It was distasteful but tolerable prior to the purple/pink and now they are so common its really just reinforcing a blatant disregard for the brand. This is the only thing that irks me a little about this topic, the idea that its "not Star Wars" simply because its not a color they like. I grew up with the Star Wars series, Return of the Jedi was one of the first films I ever saw and I don't mind what color lightsaber people use. Yes, the lightsaber is one of the important symbols of the SW world, but I seriously do not see how the color of said lightsaber destroys the fantasy. Is it simply because they don't like the color? Do they think its to "feminine" (I hope people are grown up enough not to think that . . .) Why should the game follow the strict rules of the films anyway? If the books, comics and other games can expanded the culture and style of the SW world, why cant this? That is one of the reasons I love the KOTOR games so much, it allows us to see the SW world in a different style and age! As I said, if enough people want the optional toggle then they should have it! I just don't think you can pass the reasoning behind it as anything more then a personal dislike of color. Edited November 20, 2012 by Cyberwoman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 As I said, if people want the optional toggle then they should have it! I'm a big fan of options. I actually have a habit of including far more options in my software than the requirements call for. However, options are not always the answer. And sometimes, indulging a minority of your user base in their desire for special modifications like this can be counter-productive: 1) It's a request to alter the view of the game universe. Its not about performance or usability, but about changing the art direction to fit personal tastes. From storytelling, lore, and art perspectives, this is a bad idea. 2) Where does it end? If its fine to allow this, then how do you deny dozens of other requests for similar things. Some people find it annoying to play on Quesh because of the red color. Others find Hoth too bright. Some people think that flame-red Sith are too saturated. Some people think that the assault cannons are too big. Some people think that Agent knives are too thick. Some think that the meat-cleaver/car-door vibrosword is ridiculously large. Where do you draw the line on the list of toggles created just to cater to some users' personal opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Not even worth a real response. Of course. Ignore everything you couldn't refute, and snip the one bit of my post based on emotion. which is, ironically, what your entire idea stems from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberwoman Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) I'm a big fan of options. I actually have a habit of including far more options in my software than the requirements call for. However, options are not always the answer. And sometimes, indulging a minority of your user base in their desire for special modifications like this can be counter-productive: 1) It's a request to alter the view of the game universe. Its not about performance or usability, but about changing the art direction to fit personal tastes. From storytelling, lore, and art perspectives, this is a bad idea. 2) Where does it end? If its fine to allow this, then how do you deny dozens of other requests for similar things. Some people find it annoying to play on Quesh because of the red color. Others find Hoth too bright. Some people think that flame-red Sith are too saturated. Some people think that the assault cannons are too big. Some people think that Agent knives are too thick. Some think that the meat-cleaver/car-door vibrosword is ridiculously large. Where do you draw the line on the list of toggles created just to cater to some users' personal opinions? I actually do agree with you on most of your points. It would make the lore more bland for sure if lightsaber colors were restricted to but a few colors, and personally I do think the toggle is rather over the top for the reason of color alone, given there are a lot more important issues which need work on. But as I said, it could be an option if enough people want it. When I say enough people, by the way, I don't mean a small, hand-full of vocal people on the forum by the way. There is going to have to be a lot more people complaining about this issue for the devs to take it seriously, and even then, it would have to be both on the forum and in-game. (Which I have seen very little of . . . in fact, despite the claims the pink lightsaber's are everywhere, I have seen very few people actually use them!) Also, in the end, it is up to the devs alone, and I do not think they would add the toggle in anyway. But if people want to ask, then they have the right to. Edited November 20, 2012 by Cyberwoman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 But as I said, I could be an option if enough people want it. When I say enough people, by the way, I don't mean a small, hand-full of vocal people on the forum by the way. I absolutely agree. If this was popular enough to gather even an estimated 20% of the current players, then I'd be fine with adding the option, as developer time allowed. My main issues with the request is the patently-false argument of "It's not Star Wars" and the insistence that it is a more worthwhile use of developer time than a dozen other visual tweaks or options. Though, in truth, the major problem is the former, as it's still right there in the subject: "Immersion". Immersion plays no part in this request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leovinus Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) Hear, hear! The only acceptable colors for lightsabers are: Acid yellow, amber, amethyst, aqua, azure, black/white, blue, dark blue, icy blue, bright gold, bronze, bronze/yellow, brown, burgundy, carmine, clear, cobalt, crimson, cyan, cyan/silver, electric blue, emerald, gold, gray, green, dark green, jade, light green, sage, green/black, indigo, lava, magenta, orange, white, pewter, pink, purple, red, blood red, dark red, light red, sapphire, scarlet, sickly green, silver, silver-blue, silver-green, teal, violet, dark violet, light violet, viridian, yellow, dark yellow, light yellow, white-yellow, yellow-green, and yellow-orange. Nowhere in that list is pink/purple, and I feel insulted that SWTOR would include such a slap-in-the-face diversion from SW lore. This reads like sarcasm. I thought it wasn't because so many can't figure it out I was starting to doubt myself, till the poster came back later in the thread and clarified. Thanks. Edited November 20, 2012 by Leovinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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