BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

[DariusCalera]

Its not outside the realm of reason to want to shoot things on the class that hauls around a big FU assault cannon.

 

You see the dude from predator? He wasn't trying to heal him.

 

Course he wasn't damaging him either really so just goes to show stealth classes will dominate.

 

For poops and grins.

 

[PerinnAybara]

It's in my title.

 

My mercenary is Mathrim Cauthon. I tagged up with Brutalize, then to Rainbow Space Unicorns, then back to Brutalize.

[Asukaa]

Guys, I stopped playing my commando 2 months ago. So don't worry, the metrics will now go down and BW will start seeing what everyone is talking about. Cash, you need to stop playing too or else it'll take longer!! =P

 

Now that the 2 of us are no longer playing our commando's, the nerfs will stop.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Asukaa

[ArchangelLBC]

There's a reason I called for a commando PVP boycott ages ago but nooooo some of yall insisted on proving something =P

[LeonHawkeye]

Hot fix us already w.t.f... We're hands down the worst Adv Class for Ranked play at the moment, we bring nothing crucial, tide turning, or game breaking for ANY Warzone like several other classes do in the form of top tier DPS, Top Tier heals, pulls, leaps, immunities, speed boosts, etc. We have NONE of these... Unless Patch 1.7 is within the next 2 weeks or so, we seriously need a hotfix or small patch, this is absolutely ridiculous the class is nothing short of dysfunctional. Edited February 8, 2013 by LeonHawkeye

[Flying-Brian]

Check out darth hater for an updated list the the datamined changes.

 

Really shows they are not listening to anything in this thread and have no idea about this class.

[Technohic]

Check out darth hater for an updated list the the datamined changes.

 

Really shows they are not listening to anything in this thread and have no idea about this class.

 

Hey, thats a cool ability for counselor/Inq.

 

ZOMG. I read that and about fell over laughing. The one thing that can get to my sniper and be a real pain, stealth; and sniper will get increased stealth detection the longer they are in cover? End of Legshot give a chance for a long snare? LMAO

 

Thats not all though for the classes. I swear this has to be trolling.

[cashogy_reborn]

Check out darth hater for an updated list the the datamined changes.

 

Really shows they are not listening to anything in this thread and have no idea about this class.

 

just took a look at it. i actually think it is not a bad list of changes.

 

the highlights to me being some good reactive damage reduction stuff, the ability to prevent a target from charging/force speed/cloaking, TWO charges for Tech Override/Power Surge (!!!!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D) and an attack that is usable while stunned.

 

it is not exactly what we have asked for, but who really thought we were going to get what we asked for? i think that a lot of these new skills/abilities will help to make commando a much more well rounded class.

 

my one issue with these changes is that i dont really see a lot that addresses our vulnerability to interrupts. the gunnery/arsenal addition of 2 charges to power surge is a great step forward, especially if the cooldown is able to be reduced significantly with that skill box. but healers and pyrotech's are still massively open to being interrupted.

 

from what i read, it sounds like some of this new stuff is going to have some good synergy with the class. but i dont think we will see this stuff in 1.7; unless they are doing a complete revamp of the skill trees before a major expansion (bad idea imo) we will be seeing this stuff with Makeb in the summer

[Tamanous]

Ya not sure about the commando changes but those gunslinger changes are AWESOME!

[DarthBloodloss]

I can already put up a close fight against almost anyone. There's nothing I can really do against a PT since its just a DPS race. But against melee toons, we got a huge hook-up.

 

Electro Net alone seems enough to end my suffering. Huge snare that prevents Speed Bursts, Leaps, and Stealth and lasts 9 seconds?

 

Any time I have ever went 1 on 1 with a melee, an extra 9 seconds of guaranteed snare kiting would have made a huge difference. Enough that the battle would be in my favor. I guess we'll wait and see if its as good as the description sounds.

[Macroeconomics]

Electro Net alone seems enough to end my suffering. Huge snare that prevents Speed Bursts, Leaps, and Stealth and lasts 9 seconds? Any time I have ever went 1 on 1 with a melee, an extra 9 seconds of guaranteed snare kiting would have made a huge difference. Enough that the battle would be in my favor. I guess we'll wait and see if its as good as the description sounds.

 

I wouldn't assume you will get full use of that 9 seconds. If I were a melee dps, I'd just save my cc breaker for that skill. Or have my team's healer cleanse me. Meanwhile the melee dps gets the new Reflect Saber skill which will COMPLETELY shut down a Merc dps - and that skill can not be broken by a Merc's cc breaker.

 

The ominous part of these changes are all the supposed benefits that the Merc gets that are really hollow decoys. CGC triggered by 3rd tick of DFA? Who the 'eff stands in DFA for 3 ticks? Resistance to periodic damage? No one uses DoTs.

 

One thing I'd be particularly wary of - all those CGC triggers from AoE abilities. Currently CGC will not place on multiple enemy targets. It would be very BW-ish for that restriction to remain in place thereby gutting these supposed new abilities.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Macroeconomics

[cashogy_reborn]

I wouldn't assume you will get full use of that 9 seconds. If I were a melee dps, I'd just save my cc breaker for that skill. Meanwhile the melee dps gets the new Reflect Saber skill which will COMPLETELY shut down a Merc dps - and that skill can not be broken by a Merc's cc breaker.

 

The ominous part of these changes are all the supposed benefits that the Merc gets that are really hollow decoys. CGC triggered by 3rd tick of DFA? Who the 'eff stands in DFA for 3 ticks? Resistance to periodic damage? No one uses DoTs.

 

One thing I'd be particularly wary of - all those CGC triggers from AoE abilities. Currently CGC will not place on multiple enemy targets. It would be very BW-ish for that restriction to remain in place thereby gutting these supposed new abilities.

 

it will be interesting to see how these abilities actually work, or how much they change.

 

thinking from the perspective of my Powertech, the changes sound pretty awesome.

 

but from the perspective of my Merc, the changes really do nothing at all to address the #1 outstanding issue with the class: vulnerability to interrupts.

[DarthBloodloss]

I wouldn't assume you will get full use of that 9 seconds. If I were a melee dps, I'd just save my cc breaker for that skill. Or have my team's healer cleanse me. Meanwhile the melee dps gets the new Reflect Saber skill which will COMPLETELY shut down a Merc dps - and that skill can not be broken by a Merc's cc breaker.

 

The ominous part of these changes are all the supposed benefits that the Merc gets that are really hollow decoys. CGC triggered by 3rd tick of DFA? Who the 'eff stands in DFA for 3 ticks? Resistance to periodic damage? No one uses DoTs.

 

One thing I'd be particularly wary of - all those CGC triggers from AoE abilities. Currently CGC will not place on multiple enemy targets. It would be very BW-ish for that restriction to remain in place thereby gutting these supposed new abilities.

 

Well at least it will get melee toons to break my Stun Dart or Power Surge+Concussion Missile a lot less, since they may be saving it for Electro Net.

 

And yea that reflect skill is going to be cool. Should have had that in earlier. Its almost like a 2nd Enduring Rage in a way. Well at least it can't reflect flamethrower! Time to bind that to my toolbar! not

[Macroeconomics]

Well at least it will get melee toons to break my Stun Dart or Power Surge+Concussion Missile a lot less, since they may be saving it for Electro Net.

 

And yea that reflect skill is going to be cool. Should have had that in earlier. Its almost like a 2nd Enduring Rage in a way. Well at least it can't reflect flamethrower! Time to bind that to my toolbar! not

 

Yes, your 4 sec stun from Electro Dart will now be good for you. On the other hand if that Saber Reflect skill lasts for 6 seconds, its still a net loss and Merc will be even easier for melee to kill. And I wouldn't assume that flamethrower isn't affected by Saber Reflect. You'd think that, but the inexact nature of the English language still leaves open the possibility that the only single target ranged and all tech and force attacks are reflected. Regardless, you are still shut down for the duration of Saber Reflect since the melee can simply interrupt Flamethrower.

 

Also, what do people think about the chance we will see ANY changes for Merc in 1.7, now that 1.7 is cleared to go live without any time on PTS? I fear we just got thrown under the bus. Again.

[ArchangelLBC]

Those commando changes would make me pretty happy except looking at the other class changes we're getting the VERY short end of the stick =(

[Macroeconomics]

After some more thought, I don't think Electro Net will be effective in PvP. We want it to be an asset when fighting enemy melee. But it's not going to be. An enemy melee is going to purposefully keep moving to ramp up the damage from Electro Net. Then he is going to use Saber Reflect. And then he'll kill you with your own Electro Net. Combined with enemy healers being able to cleanse Electro Net, there is only one subclass type that Electro Net can be reliably used against - Snipers. Who won't move anyway. Doh.

[cashogy_reborn]

After some more thought, I don't think Electro Net will be effective in PvP. We want it to be an asset when fighting enemy melee. But it's not going to be. An enemy melee is going to purposefully keep moving to ramp up the damage from Electro Net. Then he is going to use Saber Reflect. And then he'll kill you with your own Electro Net. Combined with enemy healers being able to cleanse Electro Net, there is only one subclass type that Electro Net can be reliably used against - Snipers. Who won't move anyway. Doh.

 

does saber reflect work on DoTs? i would think not, but i am not familiar with jedi classes.

 

and lets be honest, how many healers actually are actively cleansing their teammates? even in RWZs i have hardly ever seen it. ive even gotten to the point where i stop asking for mezzes to be cleansed, since its like talking to a wall.

 

i definitely agree that we are getting the short end of the stick here. Merc is already several levels below its competition for the DPS role. yes, these changes will give a nice buff to *almost* all the aspects of playing a merc. but at the same time every other class is getting an equal amount of buffs/new skills. which does nothing but preserve the status quo.

 

but i will stick to my guns on not passing judgement on these changes. we dont even know if they are in their finished state, or how many of them will make it into an actual patch, or when we will see them at all. so i am reserving passing actual judgement until i see it posted in yellow text

[Pefny]

Thats new skills don't shine that bright. Especially when u realize that this electro net, shield buff and shoulder cannon are BH/Trooper skills - for Merc, Mando, PT and VG.

 

What's my point?

 

Shoulder cannon - 10 m range - highly profitable for PT/VG, for Merc/Mando used only in emergency - PT on 10 m will melt u anyway, u gonna be probably in his electro net (and I'm more than sure that this electro net will has 10 m range!) so if u don't have cc breaker or Degauss... but PT still has 2 other hard, instant cc. I don't even have to write about it's usefulnes for PT/VG.

Another skill PT/VG only - flame sweep/explosive surge has chance for trigger CGC/PC - slow for many enemies, profit for whole team.

For Assault Commando/Merc - low cost of PS/CB (so u can spam it, they want ot make this 2nd Tracer/Grav or what?), cd of full auto/unload - yeah all I need to channel more (and over heat), dmg boost for RS/HIB, PS/CB and Full Auto/Unload - dmg boost is always nice.

DMG boost for stock strike/rocket punch, IR/IM and AP/TD, it's profitable for both PT/VG and Merc/Mando.

 

And the big finale - Arsenal/Gunnery excusives:

 

1. Chance to absorb incoming attack - nice

2. While Reduccing CD of Concussive Round/Concussive Missile is quite useless in PvP. From my point of view, I don't want to waste TO/PS for insta cast it and it's breaks on dmg crap. I think it will be going into space after "to be deleted" Power Overrides/Reserve Round. For reduce cd of TO/PS - it highly depend of its CD - we'll defend ouerselves/be useful only in appropriate peroids of time.

3. Reactive Shield is in Pyro/Assault tree, whitout interrupt immune during shiled it's garbage.

 

To sum all up - PT/VG will get another piece of new deadly tricks and portion of usefulness for PvP team. Still I don't see point to take Merc/Mando to RWZ. Also I think all these changes (if ever gonna be introduced, maybe it's some old, unused ideas) it's gonna be in RoHC, when lvl cap will be increased.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Pefny

[Amebia]

Lol at no interrupt immunity

 

I really need to stop pvping with my commando.

 

So one of our most prominent counter classes receives more methods to render us useless?

 

What the hell is this...

[yoomazir]

Thats new skills don't shine that bright. Especially when u realize that this electro net, shield buff and shoulder cannon are BH/Trooper skills - for Merc, Mando, PT and VG.

 

What's my point?

 

Shoulder cannon - 10 m range - highly profitable for PT/VG, for Merc/Mando used only in emergency - PT on 10 m will melt u anyway, u gonna be probably in his electro net (and I'm more than sure that this electro net will has 10 m range!) so if u don't have cc breaker or Degauss... but PT still has 2 other hard, instant cc. I don't even have to write about it's usefulnes for PT/VG.

Another skill PT/VG only - flame sweep/explosive surge has chance for trigger CGC/PC - slow for many enemies, profit for whole team.

For Assault Commando/Merc - low cost of PS/CB (so u can spam it, they want ot make this 2nd Tracer/Grav or what?), cd of full auto/unload - yeah all I need to channel more (and over heat), dmg boost for RS/HIB, PS/CB and Full Auto/Unload - dmg boost is always nice.

DMG boost for stock strike/rocket punch, IR/IM and AP/TD, it's profitable for both PT/VG and Merc/Mando.

 

And the big finale - Arsenal/Gunnery excusives:

 

1. Chance to absorb incoming attack - nice

2. While Reduccing CD of Concussive Round/Concussive Missile is quite useless in PvP. From my point of view, I don't want to waste TO/PS for insta cast it and it's breaks on dmg crap. I think it will be going into space after "to be deleted" Power Overrides/Reserve Round. For reduce cd of TO/PS - it highly depend of its CD - we'll defend ouerselves/be useful only in appropriate peroids of time.

3. Reactive Shield is in Pyro/Assault tree, whitout interrupt immune during shiled it's garbage.

 

To sum all up - PT/VG will get another piece of new deadly tricks and portion of usefulness for PvP team. Still I don't see point to take Merc/Mando to RWZ. Also I think all these changes (if ever gonna be introduced, maybe it's some old, unused ideas) it's gonna be in RoHC, when lvl cap will be increased.

 

 

Yep, those buffs are nice but if it's for both AC's then Merc/MAndo it's still going to be the PT poor's man version.

 

As soon as BW release the AC switch I'll definitly go PT with my main.

Edited February 9, 2013 by yoomazir

[Macroeconomics]

does saber reflect work on DoTs? i would think not, but i am not familiar with jedi classes.

 

The only damage reflect abilities currently in the game are used by certain Flashpoint and Ops bosses. And they DO reflect DoT damage. it would be unusual for Saber Reflect not to reflect a single target tech attack, including a DoT. Trust me, Electro Net will be nearly worthless.

[klham]

I'm envious of the movement buffs: Phase Walk for for Consulars (allowing them to apparently teleport back to a pre-determined point within 60m of their position) and the two new gap-closer/escapes for Smugglers (Hightail It and Scamper). They will be a huge boost to those classes in PvP. Consulars will be much better at nodes and goal lines (I'm assuming this ability will also disregard the z axis, which brings them a bit closer to Knights in this regard), while Smugglers will be much more mobile both as melee and as ranged turrets. Not sure I'm a fan of the shorter cooldown on Force Leap for tanky Guardians/Juggs though, especially given the (apparent) absence of anything to address Commandos' chronic vulnerability to this gap-closer.

 

I still don't see an escape mechanic for commandos in all this, so I assume this improvement isn't detailed in the datamining and will be one of the new abilities slated for Advanced Classes rather than part of the new level cap. Electro Net looks interesting but (in theory) would need to be used in combination with a movement buff and/or a buffed-up gap-creator to be part of an escape. My kb has no effected on most leapers in WZs these days. Commandos are still a de facto melee-range class due to their inability to maintain and regain range for the duration of a rotation.

 

Giving players something to do while controlled (Shoulder Cannon) is good for gameplay and could reduce some of the frustration at being stunlocked and burned down while helpless and white-barred, depending on how it's implemented.

 

So, with all the usual caveats (i.e. nothing is confirmed, we don't have the full picture yet, etc.) I don't think there's much that will be radically game-changing for Commandos of any spec in PvP. But I'm looking forward to giving the changes a try.

Edited February 9, 2013 by klham

[cashogy_reborn]

The only damage reflect abilities currently in the game are used by certain Flashpoint and Ops bosses. And they DO reflect DoT damage. it would be unusual for Saber Reflect not to reflect a single target tech attack, including a DoT. Trust me, Electro Net will be nearly worthless.

 

bah, then that is disappointing.

 

it would be awesome if this stuff was going to PTS anytime soon so we could actually get our hands on it.

[Macroeconomics]

The more you think about it, the more the whole Saber Reflect/Elctro Net thing is infuriating. Mercs will be even easier kill for enemy melee in a 1v1 duel. Enemy Sent/Mara already have Undying Rage which a Merc must save his Electro Dart to counter. But now it will be mandatory to save Electro Dart for Saber Reflect - and even that will not help a DoT based Merc Pyro. BW just gave melee an extra trump card to use vs. Mercs, and Electro Net is ineffective vs. both of them.

[DariusCalera]

Still nothing there that makes me think "Now there's something that I can bring to a ranked match!".

 

 

Still don't think BW knows how the class plays.