Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Jadescythe]

I LOVE this reply!!!! Absolutely great way to state it!

 

I solo queue, I group queue, I get grouped with premades, I fight premades...I win some I shouldn't, lose plenty I shouldn't. Grouping does not guarantee a win.

 

NO

 

Clearly he's just scared of the utopian society that a solo only queue would create

[Technohic]

And again I will say, give player the option to que solo vs solo only pvp matches.

What is the threat to allowing this?

 

It's already there. Its called solo ranked.

[Wudnin]

Code for "I'm bad and no half decent pvper would ever group with me"

 

A typical answer from a simpleton whose still in denial.

 

Preventing groups from queueing for warzones will kill PvP, just like it killed Ranked.

 

Why does the splitting Solo and Group PvP seem to work in other MMOs but this one?

Edited September 5, 2014 by Wudnin

[Jadescythe]

Why does the splitting Solo and Group PvP seem to work in other MMOs but this one?

 

Examples?

[Tellenn]

It isn't a premade problem its an idiot problem

 

You just have to read all the qq by bads about dot classes or juggs or how hard it is to cap in voidstar. Yeah its hard because I have marauders breaking my saps all the time.

 

You just have to read half the comments on this forum to see why some players can't even get over 400k damage in a wz. The problem is all the pvpers left about 23 months ago and all we have is pve bads and a handful of frustrated pvpers.

 

I usually whisper these people after a warzone to uninstall. Hopefully a few take my advice and pvp gets a fraction better without them.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Tellenn

[Vodrin]

No, dude. Voice coordinated gear stacked premades that are spawn camping the opposing team within 45 seconds of the game starting are what's holding them back. Trying to blame the pug loser's "lack of skill" when the premade is coordinating attacks on vent/mumble/TS and geared to the nines with perfect team composition is a bit asinine.

 

I understand not all premades are like this, but these are the ones people complain about, and there are a few around. And generally, when you run into them on any given night, you'll run into them over and over that night until they get tired of destroying random pug teams.

 

No one can get spawn camped in this game unless they are severely undergeared or are flat out playing terrible. I see players on my team every night with 27K health. There is absolutely no reason you cant come in with at least 30K health and decent bonus damage from the time you hit level cap. If you take the time to understand how bolster works, and take the time to get augments you can do reasonably well. The fact that many players do not want to take the time to gear up reasonably for PvP and want to come to the forums to complain about the results is very annoying to me. And it is very hard to be sympathetic when I see this so often.

[ZooMzy]

I usually whisper these people after a warzone to uninstall. Hopefully a few take my advice and pvp gets a fraction better without them.

 

Unfortunately, that would result in a majority of the people playing the game leaving.

 

People whine about match making when that's not even close to the problem. The game is heavily favored towards DPS, what more than an undeniable amount of people play, and that comp of "all DPS" can compete well enough with any match up to have a decent fight, if the players themselves are above mediocre in skill.

 

The problem, stated above, is the skill of the players and it always will be no matter how many people finger point premades, class imbalances, and my favorite, hackers. If you want premades to have less impact, then it should be encouraged and expected for pugs to be above a level of mental retardation.

 

And if you have the nerve to say PvP needs to take a step back for the casuals, then you're part of the problem as well. Just because the game's player base is predominantly one quality doesn't mean you can tailor a game mode that is contradictory to casuals in principle to those players. Fix the stupid and fix the attitude towards the game, then you'll see improvement. Which unfortunately, can only be done by the person who needs to change making the right choice.

 

So in reality, the only reason why PvP in SWTOR sucks as a whole is because the community that supports it sucks.

Edited September 5, 2014 by ZooMzy

[Tellenn]

No one can get spawn camped in this game unless they are severely undergeared or are flat out playing terrible. I see players on my team every night with 27K health. There is absolutely no reason you cant come in with at least 30K health and decent bonus damage from the time you hit level cap. If you take the time to understand how bolster works, and take the time to get augments you can do reasonably well. The fact that many players do not want to take the time to gear up reasonably for PvP and want to come to the forums to complain about the results is very annoying to me. And it is very hard to be sympathetic when I see this so often.

 

 

Its nothing to do with gear I nightly see at least 5 players moving weirdly in what can only be key turning and backpeddling. They wander around warzones like those chinese tourists you see on the tube in the morning because thats exactly what they are pve tourists.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Tellenn

[TUXs]

I usually whisper these people after a warzone to uninstall. Hopefully a few take my advice and pvp gets a fraction better without them.

Are you truly so naive that you don't realize that this results in fewer PvPers, making PvP worse because the pops come slower and slower?

[Tellenn]

Are you truly so naive that you don't realize that this results in fewer PvPers, making PvP worse because the pops come slower and slower?

 

Id happily wait longer if the games were better quality.

 

Also they aren't pvpers.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Tellenn

[Jadescythe]

Id happily wait longer if the games were better quality.

 

Also they aren't pvpers.

 

So you have no issues with separating queues then? Since waiting to not have those baddy PUGs on your team is acceptable?

 

You can't have it both ways.

[Tellenn]

So you have no issues with separating queues then? Since waiting to not have those baddy PUGs on your team is acceptable?

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

It wouldn't make any difference as its still luck of the draw what type of players you get on your team

[Darkshadz]

Id happily wait longer if the games were better quality.

 

Also they aren't pvpers.

 

An extra 30 minutes in queue for a chance to be in a team (or facing a team) of backpeddlers? No thanks!

 

I always solo queue btw.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Darkshadz

[Jadescythe]

It wouldn't make any difference as its still luck of the draw what type of players you get on your team

 

To a degree. It's still true that better players tend to group more often and with higher caliber players. Premades don't have an inherent advantage, but in an ideal world where matchmaking exists in all PvP queues, this wouldn't matter. A solo only queue would help the situation in that completely lopsided games would be far less frequent, but it has 2 major drawbacks.

 

1) Queue times would be ridiculous, especially for groups of 3.

 

2) Skilled solo queuers would enjoy the queues far less since many of the better players would be in the group queues and they would faceroll through matches. The reverse is the same for bad premades, who would find higher caliber teams far more often. So it's not really a win for either group. It also reduces the exposure players would get to high calber teams/guilds that they might have otherwise grouped with or joined.

 

If reason #1 didn't exist, I have no doubt BW would implement the change because it's casual friendly for the most part. But the small increase in the probability of better matches doesn't outweight the enormous difference in queue times.

[foxmob]

1) Queue times would be ridiculous, especially for groups of 3.

only for groups of 3. but it's never going to happen, and it shouldn't at this point anyway (population issue). so let's just drop it.

[Tellenn]

Why would anyone be in a group of 3 when there plenty of solo people looking for premades?

[nrevox]

I almost always queue with guildies (ranked and unranked). The rare few times I queue alone, I'm in complete disbelief at how some of those people managed to find the queue wz button in the first place.

 

I'd rather premade all day and have fun with people who know what they're doing rather than play with those idiots. Sorry.

 

The real problem isn't premades, it's the army of bads invading warzones.

 

 

Which is why you queue for ranked wz's only right? If people only want to play against good players or geared players, then they should only queue for ranked ONLY right? That doesn't happen. They always end up in normal queue to faceroll lesser geared, less skilled players because they enjoy having an advantage. Its just human nature, and anyone that denies that is simply not telling the truth. period.

 

I have been on both sides of a premade. I see both sides of the argument, and I agree it is fun to play with friends as a unit. I also agree that it discourages new players from wanting to participate. So there IS a problem. I've seem people unsub and resub. I would like to see more players participate in pvp. The hard core pvp'ers get all twisted in the shorts when you try to even the field, and cry "learn to play!!!" and blah blah. That line of thinking is tired. Bioware probably wants more people to participate too, and that will probably not happen the way the gearing system and queuing system stands currently.

[Raansu]

Which is why you queue for ranked wz's only right? If people only want to play against good players or geared players, then they should only queue for ranked ONLY right? That doesn't happen. They always end up in normal queue to faceroll lesser geared, less skilled players because they enjoy having an advantage. Its just human nature, and anyone that denies that is simply not telling the truth. period.

 

I have been on both sides of a premade. I see both sides of the argument, and I agree it is fun to play with friends as a unit. I also agree that it discourages new players from wanting to participate. So there IS a problem. I've seem people unsub and resub. I would like to see more players participate in pvp. The hard core pvp'ers get all twisted in the shorts when you try to even the field, and cry "learn to play!!!" and blah blah. That line of thinking is tired. Bioware probably wants more people to participate too, and that will probably not happen the way the gearing system and queuing system stands currently.

 

To be fair most people dislike arenas. I love arenas but I also really like the 8v8 warzones, but that no longer has ranked. So blame BW?

[Anyakaschala]

People are making these threads and complaining for a reason, I've said this in another thread and I'll say it here. The current PvP system is broken, allowing but a few premade groups ontop to feed on the rest no matter what angle and perspective you seek to defend and justify this system with. How Bioware could've allowed this to go on for so long, I'll probably never know.

 

I'm a PvPer myself (Former in this game) and I've Soloed and PvPed in premades, it's fun when you're there winning battles and earning medals in good quantities, but it isn't always fun for the PUGs who at times end up facing the same premade over and over again for hours. I've quit PvPing here myself for the same reason, despiting having the resources and means to PvP in group(s). I'm not queueing anymore because people who do not have the means to group up or find suitable guilds to settle in with (Yes, it -does- happen!) aren't either, and I honestly do not blame them. Even worse, the premades are denying new competition and potential PvPers to settle in.

 

The other thing that you are failing to mention is how you do really know people are in a pre-made? Really, i've been in a group with 2 other guildies and we didn't queue sync or group, we just all got on and decided to pvp. We rolled the other team, but we weren't grouped. It's happened the other way around as well where we grouped and got rolled. I can't say that the other team was a pre-made or not. Just because you see a lot of one guild in one wz does not mean they are a pre-made. Hell, by the same logic, how do you know that the other team you are beating on or they are beating on you are not grouped? Just because there is a diverse amount of guilds in a wz does not mean they aren't pre-made either.

 

The other thing that it doesn't address is competence. Just because there is a a pre-made does not mean it's automatic win. There are arguably more bad pre-mades than there are good ones. You know the "lets group for pvp" in /2 on the fleet. IMO that's no different than a random pug, but they are grouped and therefore a pre-made.

 

And while I do agree that something does need to be done, I don't think it has anything to do with the way things are atm. What I would like to see happen is that things stay the way they are and that BW adds other options. For Exampe: invite only wz's. That way you can have an intra-guild war. Or pit your guild against another. You would be able to form huttball leagues. it would put the power in the players hands. This would lessen, IMO, the effect the ****** pre-mades have on regs.

[Anyakaschala]

That will always be the case, there will be less skilled player, there will still be laughably good players in the match.

If bioware would just allow solo que vs solo que only, at least its all mixed up for the more casual player and the goods and bads are random.

We are complaining about a small group of players that exploit the way the que works currently in order to pug stomp as a team.

Solo vs solo only que would cut the rug out from them. They would have to go at it random and at times against each other or see what they get with grouped que. Especially if you put a small quit timer on wz matches.

Nothing significant would be required, just 2-5 minutes so we wouldn't get the small group of people quiting and requeing 10 times in a effort to keep their pug stomp team together.

And yes the people we are complaining about are just the sorts of people to try it!

 

The main issue you're going to deal with here, if solo only queue is implemented is that guild would queue sync, and if they didn't get the same pop, they'd just leave. Thus you'd have a rash of wz's starting undermanned. And that's just as bad, almost worse than what people consider the pre-made issue. Starting 4v8 is a disaster, esp in a pug. The match will be over in the 1st minute.

 

The other thing you are not taking into consideration is you are talking about pulling the rug out from under them. Or in other words, you don't want them to basically play. You are therefore asking BW to alienate some of their more hardcore players, that are subbed and bring actual money to the game. How is this good. Piss off a significant amount of your hardcore players so they quit.... yeah that an intelligent business decision.....

[Anyakaschala]

Actually the problem is you premade guys cowering in fear of the idea of not having all you premade buddies with you.

Again everyone tell bioware you want a solo vs solo que option, with a cd quit timer.

 

I wonder i fyou did a poll how many pvper's are pre-made only. I would venture that 99%+ solo queue quite a bit. Why? Because they pvp, if there are people to group with in their guild or on their friends list, they'll do that, but if no one is around, they'll solo queue.

 

So, no, they/we don't cower in fear, we still queue. We still do well,

 

One thing I do wonder though, in terms of pre-mades, if they are rolling, it might help to help. Not to be *****, not to taunt and troll and make a nuisance of themselves. You know the ones, running to the spawn points and killing people there, but maybe stop and help, helpful tips in /say. Practice good sportsmanship, etc.. It actually might help.

[Anyakaschala]

No one can get spawn camped in this game unless they are severely undergeared or are flat out playing terrible. I see players on my team every night with 27K health. There is absolutely no reason you cant come in with at least 30K health and decent bonus damage from the time you hit level cap. If you take the time to understand how bolster works, and take the time to get augments you can do reasonably well. The fact that many players do not want to take the time to gear up reasonably for PvP and want to come to the forums to complain about the results is very annoying to me. And it is very hard to be sympathetic when I see this so often.

 

While I understand the point, how many people without pvp actually research bolster before hand. It's just not going to happen. And you can't expect it to.

 

Add that, basically you are asking people to spend a lot of creds to min/max their pve gear for pve. That's also just not going to happen. The people that are going to abuse bolster, are the pvp'ers, that want that slight edge. The average casual will not and should not be expected to. This is not conducive to 46/46/46+augment that was cheap and easy to get.

[nrevox]

To be fair most people dislike arenas. I love arenas but I also really like the 8v8 warzones, but that no longer has ranked. So blame BW?

 

Bioware made a huge mistake by getting rid of 8v8 ranked. If queue times are "too long" for ranked, then there is a reason. The majority of people don't want to be in ranked because they are outgeared, out organized, and probably out skilled. This could have been fixed by cross server matching, but that is a separate can of worms on its own. Lol

 

I don't blame "premades" for lack of participation from casual players entirely .... but it doesn't make a casual player want to keep queuing if they keep running into a fully geared, well organized, premade and they can't even make it 10 feet past the spawn point because they are being camped. So things can stay the way they are now and queue times will stay low ... or we can find a healthy compromise that encourages casuals to want to learn and be part of the community. I would personally prefer the pool of players grow.

[Anyakaschala]

It isn't a premade problem its an idiot problem

 

You just have to read all the qq by bads about dot classes or juggs or how hard it is to cap in voidstar. Yeah its hard because I have marauders breaking my saps all the time.

 

You just have to read half the comments on this forum to see why some players can't even get over 400k damage in a wz. The problem is all the pvpers left about 23 months ago and all we have is pve bads and a handful of frustrated pvpers.

 

I usually whisper these people after a warzone to uninstall. Hopefully a few take my advice and pvp gets a fraction better without them.

 

instead of /whisper to people to uninstall, what about whisper them actual good advice. No one comes in an expert on their class or advanced strategy. I got taught by guildies, I learned a lot on my own. I dueled a lot of people to learn about my class as well.

 

The problem, IMO, is people like you that are toxic to the average to below average pvper. if the pvp community wants a lot of stuff, then I think they need to step up their game on the interpersonal level. There are people on the other side, it might be their 1st wz, or maybe they've pvped for a while and no one has ever taken the time to help them. Maybe if the so-called elites, took the time to help people we'd have a much more vibrant diverse an fun pvp community.

[capizm]

this game has some of most unfreindly players you will meet in any game. and all the top guilds just flat out think every player sux who isent in there guild, in pvp its worse. hard to belive players are so affriad of a regs solo que button...its actully amazing . its a small part of bios problem, people go to other games cause they can play 4 vs 4 or 8 vs 8 10 vs 10 3 vs 3. all different ques . yet we have had same ****** system since start...with tweeks that have made it worse or been nerfed gone. every other pvp game has gear check, not tor. i mean just goes on and on, and sad part? people like this game. they cant stand biofail. we should have option to basicly que any way, its not going to make pops any longer, if game is good players play. and when they have options, they play more. cant tell me you elitest jerks who act like your god dont ever solo que? i mean you argue like you only want premades, why? think i get it...no fresh meat to pound on every day...makes for fun game...i guess.