Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[chillshock]

So... basically: Do stuff to improve participation in ranked pvp?

 

Stuff:

- More gratifying winning (double awards time was great, apply it to victories only and make it permanent)

- Less punishing losing (as in get stuff for winning, nothing deducted for losing - most people hate getting things taken vom them.)

- Cooler rewards for ranking high (as in 'draws attention' or is highly wanted by anyone... blackblack stuff... traditional jedi robes... )

- No more Solo Ranked. With the teams being the ranked instance (see wow arena - that worked pretty well for a very long time to keep the pvp alive)

- No more grouped regs (or a seperate queue for grouped regs - wich would probably be as frequented as the ranked queue is today - because all those 'we premake to have a challenge' teams are... mostly bu**sh*t.)

 

More players encouraged and a more positive overall feeling. Shiny awards won't make players put in effort. Motivation an coolness will.

 

If you want to do something REALLY awesome:

Preferred grouping of players in solo queue - automatically prefer to group players with other players that they have a history of winning with.

 

hm... yeah... you WILL need a VERY GOOD matchmaking system and have to hit that sweet spot between "making people hate the game" and "not requireing to win" in pvp... Not easy to do. Not easy at all.

[PloGreen]

And just to make sure you read it.

You grouped up pvpers are scared.

You know it!

We know it!

and now any that can read knows it!

 

guess you will have to do something else to justify or make you self feel better about yourself.

 

Give it a rest and stop being pathetic. All i do nowadays is queue solo and the biggest problem with this game is clueless idiots who enter warzones poorly geared with no idea what they are doing. Premades are part of the game, if you cannot stomach joining a game solo, form one of your own. Stop with this grouped pvpers are scared ********, they would kick your *** solo and quite frankly its embarassing.

 

Add to that some premades are just pve dudes playing as a team, hardly anything to worry about. This qq has been going on since the start of the game and 99 percent of the people that complain about premades are just terrible. Stop making excuses for being awful and learn how to beat other people. That is what you are supposed to do in pvp, not whine on a forum that it's not fair.

Edited September 4, 2014 by PloGreen

[chillshock]

the biggest problem with this game is clueless idiots who enter warzones poorly geared with no idea what they are doing.

 

If not random unranked... where should those players queue? You know... to get to learn about pvp?

[PloGreen]

If not random unranked... where should those players queue? You know... to get to learn about pvp?

 

They can queue where they like, they just need to stop blaming other people and learn to play the game like everyone else did. Whether you like it or not, other than matchmaking - this is often what will determine a win or a loss as much whether they queue against other solo players or premades.

 

It won't be any different for a solo player facing other solo players if said player does not know what to do or is joining pvp in the wrong gear. There are guides to help these players, the gear is not even hard to get and it is simply a case of learning the ropes.

 

Even if you removed premades it won't stop lopsided matches, random is random. You will still get teams of players that are leagues ahead of other players. I don't think this will resolve anything, it won't encourage team play it will just shift the complaints to gear or class balance imo.

Edited September 4, 2014 by PloGreen

[chillshock]

They can queue where they like, they just need to stop blaming other people and learn to play the game like everyone else did.

 

And everyone else needs to stop blaming them for not knowing the ropes or having the gear, yet.

 

Learning is actually one of the important functions of the unranked queue.

[Idunhavaname]

Did you mean non-existent pops? Because I think the queue time for ranked is FAR from nonexistent...

 

Lol yes. Thanks for correcting .

[PloGreen]

And everyone else needs to stop blaming them for not knowing the ropes or having the gear, yet.

 

Learning is actually one of the important functions of the unranked queue.

 

Ye it is. But some just refuse to accept the reality - they need to get better at the game. I'm not saying they should not be in the queue i am saying it's a determining factor in the outcome of a game, more often than not.

 

Is that not the case? Do you really think giving solo players an rng solo only queue will stop them getting beaten and make fairer games? It never will, and anyone clinging to this belief is deluded. That's what they did with ranked, and its a mess.

Edited September 4, 2014 by PloGreen

[karmaann]

Premade here are 'ok', if someone remember those in Wow, there was a 50 man battleground, premade were standing just out of the cimetery and kill endlessely all people just to have a dumb success, they 've, also, made a spécific recruiting Add-on across servers it was so ridiculous Oo

 

So here, it's not so bad, you can kick there *** sometimes

[Technohic]

We've been through these threads hundreds of times, and it comes down to this.

 

1. Playing with friends is not something that should be discouraged by making them do it in something they do not want to do. Arenas are definitely a different play style than Warzones and IMO, Warzones are more fun.

 

2. Most premades do not use voice chat to call out attacks in regs. At least any of the ones I have been in. All communication has been in chat where the other 4 players can see it.

 

3. I know it feels like an insult that someone says learn to play so premades are not a problem, and it is. You may not be a bad player, but lets face it, there are a lot of bad players out there and one reason to group up should be so you can get with people you actually enjoy playing with on a team. Lord forbid you try to enjoy yourself while playing a video game. Just think; you could be a great player, but if you run into 4 other great players on the other side, and your side is just you with 3 terrible players, it doesn't matter if the other side is a premade or not. You are going to get stomped even by the PUG with better talent. Quit trying to carry the bads and you will find you get less upset when it happens.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Technohic

[DariusCalera]

And everyone else needs to stop blaming them for not knowing the ropes or having the gear, yet.

 

Learning is actually one of the important functions of the unranked queue.

 

I would actually argue that the place to learn is in the lower PvP brackets. If you have never PvPed in SWTOR and you just jump straight into 55s with no idea what you are doing, of course you're going to have a bad experience.

[Jadescythe]

I would actually argue that the place to learn is in the lower PvP brackets. If you have never PvPed in SWTOR and you just jump straight into 55s with no idea what you are doing, of course you're going to have a bad experience.

 

I would argue that anyone can play in any casual environment. But you lose your right to complain about losing when you have no idea what you're doing. That's when people blame things like class imbalance, gear, premades, etc. when it's actually their lack of skill and game knowledge holding them back.

[Vember]

I would argue that anyone can play in any casual environment. But you lose your right to complain about losing when you have no idea what you're doing. That's when people blame things like class imbalance, gear, premades, etc. when it's actually their lack of skill and game knowledge holding them back.

 

No, dude. Voice coordinated gear stacked premades that are spawn camping the opposing team within 45 seconds of the game starting are what's holding them back. Trying to blame the pug loser's "lack of skill" when the premade is coordinating attacks on vent/mumble/TS and geared to the nines with perfect team composition is a bit asinine.

 

I understand not all premades are like this, but these are the ones people complain about, and there are a few around. And generally, when you run into them on any given night, you'll run into them over and over that night until they get tired of destroying random pug teams.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Vember

[Jadescythe]

No, dude. Voice coordinated gear stacked premades that are spawn camping the opposing team within 45 seconds of the game starting are what's holding them back. Trying to blame the pug loser's "lack of skill" when the premade is coordinating attacks on vent/mumble/TS and geared to the nines with perfect team composition is a bit asinine.

 

I understand not all premades are like this, but these are the ones people complain about, and there are a few around. And generally, when you run into them on any given night, you'll run into them over and over that night until they get tired of destroying random pug teams.

 

So we're making a thread to specifically be mad about 1/100 premades? And then suggesting that becaues of this 1 group that "you'll run into over and over" we should change something about the system? That makes sense.

 

Because I can safely say I've been spawn camped in maybe 1 of my last 1,000 warzones I've played. So I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here on how often it happens. Now, if you're talking about games where you are so outclassed that half your team leaves and you're playing 4v8, that's not really the premades fault, is it?

[DarthOvertone]

I don't queue much but when I queue I'm accused of being a premade.

 

lol

 

/endthread

[DariusCalera]

No, dude. Voice coordinated gear stacked premades that are spawn camping the opposing team within 45 seconds of the game starting are what's holding them back. Trying to blame the pug loser's "lack of skill" when the premade is coordinating attacks on vent/mumble/TS and geared to the nines with perfect team composition is a bit asinine.

 

I understand not all premades are like this, but these are the ones people complain about, and there are a few around. And generally, when you run into them on any given night, you'll run into them over and over that night until they get tired of destroying random pug teams.

 

The differences between Obroan and Brutalizer gear are extremely small with min/maxed Obroan being better than stock Brutalizer. On top of this, there are still combinations of PvE gear that are marginally better than stock Obroan. The only way that the "gear gap" becomes an issue is if people are running around in old PvP gear that still has expertise (saw a guy the other day in Recruit MK-2 gear) or in gear that doesn't bolster well. In either case, it goes back to lack of player knowledge. (Though I will say that BW screwed up bolster and no where is it explained in game how it works.)

 

As for coordinating targets that is a skill that can be easily learned as long as one pays attention to what is going on around them and not just tunneling and zerging into a fight. It doesn't take a premade to accomplish it. If you see a PT/VG pull someone, you should realize that the person that just got pulled is, more than likely, going to get hit by a follow up stun from the PT/VG so switch your target to them and help burn them down. Or if a Sent/Mara decides to jump into a pack of your teammates, stun him/her and you all, once again, burn them down.

[Anyakaschala]

And the pug stomping try hards have spoken.

Make matching solo only ques and option that any player can choose, what is wrong with that. Afraid your ego can't take a fair game with other grouped up players!

The system is broken, and people do exploit to the best of their abilities. Example on the Harbringer server, there are only a few pvp try hard guilds. They all play together for the most part. I think there was some resistance to them once upon a time ago but they quit. Now all they do is pug stomp and only pug stomp. When they are tired of pug stomping one side they all switch over and start doing to the other faction.

Queing into grouped up matches should be an option that we can avoid. And quiting and leaving a match should in act a cd timer, why not in pvp when we have a timer for quiters in pve FP and ops?

 

issues that you are leaving out.

 

1) if you disallow group queueing in an MMO, you're going to lose subscribers.

2) if people stay for solo queues, they are basically just going to do what they do in ranked, queue sync. Thus, the majority of the time, they'll still get the same pop, and if they don't, they'll just drop queue and re-queue, it's unranked, so they won't lose any ranking. Which has the side effect of starting matches undermanned

3) as someone that plays on harbinger, what you are seeing is people that are doing their dailys and weeklies. Once done with their weeklies, they swap toons, and once done there, they switch to the other side to do those toons dailies and weeklies.

4) there should not be an incentive for people to stay in matches they don't want to be in. All it's going to do is cause them to troll and go hide in a corner i fthey are going to incur a penalty for leaving.

[Vember]

So we're making a thread to specifically be mad about 1/100 premades?

 

Yep. And all it takes is seeing the same one repeatedly on one night to prompt people to make these threads.

 

The differences between Obroan and Brutalizer gear are extremely small with min/maxed Obroan being better than stock Brutalizer. On top of this, there are still combinations of PvE gear that are marginally better than stock Obroan. The only way that the "gear gap" becomes an issue is if people are running around in old PvP gear that still has expertise (saw a guy the other day in Recruit MK-2 gear) or in gear that doesn't bolster well. In either case, it goes back to lack of player knowledge. (Though I will say that BW screwed up bolster and no where is it explained in game how it works.)

 

As for coordinating targets that is a skill that can be easily learned as long as one pays attention to what is going on around them and not just tunneling and zerging into a fight. It doesn't take a premade to accomplish it. If you see a PT/VG pull someone, you should realize that the person that just got pulled is, more than likely, going to get hit by a follow up stun from the PT/VG so switch your target to them and help burn them down. Or if a Sent/Mara decides to jump into a pack of your teammates, stun him/her and you all, once again, burn them down.

 

Here's the thing, there are a couple Pub guilds on Harbinger that do this. You'll see 8 people from the same guild in one pug WZ, which means they're queuing two groups at once to try and abuse the system, two tanks, two healers, four dps, all with 33-40k hp, focus firing targets and coordinating all attacks. These guys don't belong in regs. And they are the reason that threads like this get made, because no pug is going to be able to effectively counter that, much less put up any kind of resistance. And it is rare, as Jade mentioned above, but believe it or not, I've seen this probably three nights in the last week.

 

Now, all that being said, people whining about premades are blowing things out of proportion. However, you haven't seen whining until premades are denied the solo pug queue....if anyone remembers when Trion tried it over at Rift.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Vember

[Joesixxpack]

I'm waiting for the thread titled "I'm done complaining about premade groups". In it everyone talks about how much they've improved their skill, socialness, and understanding of the game; then lol at their former selves for ever griping to begin with.

[Anyakaschala]

Yep. And all it takes is seeing the same one repeatedly on one night to prompt people to make these threads.

 

 

 

Here's the thing, there are a couple Pub guilds on Harbinger that do this. You'll see 8 people from the same guild in one pug WZ, which means they're queuing two groups at once to try and abuse the system, two tanks, two healers, four dps, all with 33-40k hp, focus firing targets and coordinating all attacks. These guys don't belong in regs. And they are the reason that threads like this get made, because no pug is going to be able to effectively counter that, much less put up any kind of resistance. And it is rare, as Jade mentioned above, but believe it or not, I've seen this probably three nights in the last week.

 

Now, all that being said, people whining about premades are blowing things out of proportion. However, you haven't seen whining until premades are denied the solo pug queue....if anyone remembers when Trion tried it over at Rift.

 

i rarely see 8 people from the same guild in a match and I'm on harbinger. Add that, that happens when you have more than 4 people online that want to pvp. And while you might have seen it, it's also just as likely that they got pitted against each other for a lot of those matches as well. You only saw the match you were in, which could easily be the exception than the rule.

 

I actually find it enjoyable when I'm pitted against people I know because I know the competition level just went up. And it's a lot more fun beating on people in your guild than stomping random pug baddies.

[Wudnin]

People are making these threads and complaining for a reason, I've said this in another thread and I'll say it here. The current PvP system is broken, allowing but a few premade groups ontop to feed on the rest no matter what angle and perspective you seek to defend and justify this system with. How Bioware could've allowed this to go on for so long, I'll probably never know.

 

I'm a PvPer myself (Former in this game) and I've Soloed and PvPed in premades, it's fun when you're there winning battles and earning medals in good quantities, but it isn't always fun for the PUGs who at times end up facing the same premade over and over again for hours. I've quit PvPing here myself for the same reason, despiting having the resources and means to PvP in group(s). I'm not queueing anymore because people who do not have the means to group up or find suitable guilds to settle in with (Yes, it -does- happen!) aren't either, and I honestly do not blame them. Even worse, the premades are denying new competition and potential PvPers to settle in.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Wudnin

[SammuelSK]

How Bioware could've allowed this to go on for so long, I'll probably never know.

 

Honestly? Because they have a revolving door when it comes to devs, and each time a new person steps in they have to relearn the system. That's months of time wasted right there. Add to that, the tiny amount of money invested into the game itself by EA... and you have something that is closer to maintenance mode then we'd like to admit. I'm sure I'll catch flak for that comment, but we still have bugs around from beta that nobody can be bothered (or paid) to fix.

 

As for the people defending the system, its the same crap I saw in AoC.... right up until the devs threw in fully random queues for PVP. People are afraid of changes to the status quo... even if they are desperately needed changes.

[Vember]

i rarely see 8 people from the same guild in a match and I'm on harbinger. Add that, that happens when you have more than 4 people online that want to pvp. And while you might have seen it, it's also just as likely that they got pitted against each other for a lot of those matches as well. You only saw the match you were in, which could easily be the exception than the rule.

 

I actually find it enjoyable when I'm pitted against people I know because I know the competition level just went up. And it's a lot more fun beating on people in your guild than stomping random pug baddies.

 

Unfortunately i've seen one of the groups get in on the side of a pug and all four drop after they've loaded in. I agree, its not as common as some people would make it out to be, but if you see them once on any given night, odds are you're going to see them pug farming for the next few hours. And your last sentence is the entire point: I understand playing with friends, but stomping random pug baddies is not fun at all. At least, not to me. Just like getting stomped by teams you can't possibly hope to do anything against isn't fun either. Once or twice, ok, no big deal, but when it happens repeatedly, this great big whine thread happens repeatedly. Cause and Effect!

Edited September 4, 2014 by Vember

[Jadescythe]

Unfortunately i've seen one of the groups get in on the side of a pug and all four drop after they've loaded in. I agree, its not as common as some people would make it out to be, but if you see them once on any given night, odds are you're going to see them pug farming for the next few hours. And your last sentence is the entire point: I understand playing with friends, but stomping random pug baddies is not fun at all. At least, not to me. Just like getting stomped by teams you can't possibly hope to do anything against isn't fun either. Once or twice, ok, no big deal, but when it happens repeatedly, this great big whine thread happens repeatedly. Cause and Effect!

 

Fought a double premade last night. We out killed them, they PvE'd their way to greatness.

 

I agree it's not intended and refuse to queue sync myself, but if you have to move to those tactics, you probably aren't good in the first place.

[Raansu]

Why can it not change!

So what if a few times when I do pvp I'm on a team and we lose horribly. That okay, its bound to happen at times.

I'm talking about the unfair advantage and disgusting feel of game play that queing into pvp for a couple of hours and all there is against me is a bunch low self esteem grouped up premade pug stomping jerks.

Why are you grouped up pvpers so scared of giving players the option to que in solo vs solo que so much. Is it because it would level the playing field a bit.

I want the option, and from reading a few of the post here I am not the only one. This post isn't for the premade pug stompers, it is not here for you to rage against because your fragile ego can't handle competition on a fair playing field

As sad as it seems the post is here, because I have the slightest hope that some one that actually works at bioware, and can actually make a decision will do something to the effect.

 

People premade to lower the amount of bad (you) players on their team. Simple as that. I would say make some damn friends and form a premade yourself, but you're probably so terrible that no one will ever queue with you.

[Raansu]

People are making these threads and complaining for a reason, I've said this in another thread and I'll say it here. The current PvP system is broken, allowing but a few premade groups ontop to feed on the rest no matter what angle and perspective you seek to defend and justify this system with. How Bioware could've allowed this to go on for so long, I'll probably never know.

 

I'm a PvPer myself (Former in this game) and I've Soloed and PvPed in premades, it's fun when you're there winning battles and earning medals in good quantities, but it isn't always fun for the PUGs who at times end up facing the same premade over and over again for hours. I've quit PvPing here myself for the same reason, despiting having the resources and means to PvP in group(s). I'm not queueing anymore because people who do not have the means to group up or find suitable guilds to settle in with (Yes, it -does- happen!) aren't either, and I honestly do not blame them. Even worse, the premades are denying new competition and potential PvPers to settle in.

 

Code for "I'm bad and no half decent pvper would ever group with me"