Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Fordel]

A Matchmaking system would help in theory, but there just aren't enough people PvPing overall.

 

What would also help is if the pvp queue somehow divided up all the dps/healer/tanks more evenly, but again, not enough people in the PvP pool.

[Technohic]

A Matchmaking system would help in theory, but there just aren't enough people PvPing overall.

 

What would also help is if the pvp queue somehow divided up all the dps/healer/tanks more evenly, but again, not enough people in the PvP pool.

 

Population doesn't matter if done right. Not saying it wouldn't still place specific people together, it would just have preference and sort it better when possible. Other than that, it would take from the same pool.

[Astarica]

Focus fire is way overrated as a concept because the strongest healer, the Operative, strongly negates any kind of focus fire due to his incredible mobility and ability to cast heal on the run. A lot of time you have a better chance at killing a DPS than an Operative simply because the Operative always have LoS to himself while this is not necessarily true to any particular DPS. Right now only a Commando is adversely affected by being attack as most of their heals are still interruptible and nobody is saying Commando healers are overpowered (though they're not weak, just not overpowered).

 

In fact saying focus fire on healers generally shows a lack of understanding on your team. In most games, it is better to focus fire on the DPS first because DPS normally don't run through pillars like healers do when they're being attacked, and due to the emphasis on heavy heals in most games, this means if you kill even one DPS, the enemy team's ability to kill anybody is greatly compromised and then you can slowly figure out how to kill their healers now that nobody on your team is dying. A team that's built on the 'can't lose' concept quickly becomes 'can't win' if even one DPS dies due to a lack of DPS, since overpowered healing applies in the other direction too.

[bsbrad]

A Matchmaking system would help in theory, but there just aren't enough people PvPing overall.

 

What would also help is if the pvp queue somehow divided up all the dps/healer/tanks more evenly, but again, not enough people in the PvP pool.

 

1000x this, the balancing of sides is terrible. Last night it was an Imp v Imp fight and obviously that means putting 3 healers on one side and none on the other. To make matters worse the other side had 2 tanks and no healers. Ever seen 2 tanks try to kill a 2 operative healers cross healing. Lesson in futility.

 

I think if the balance between the sides were maintained, ie. when they can do the 2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 dps like Operations. But it should never be 6 DPS, 2 tanks against 3 healers, a tank and 4 dps. I understand this will mean BW adding in a queue as DPS/Tank/Healer to PVP just like the FPs.

 

However as other ppl have noted until cross-server PVP happens (unlikely to happen soon while they can make money out of server transfers) this is unrealistic.

[Comfterbilly]

Trust me, when doing regs nothing would make me happier than to seperate the queues so I no longer need to hear pugs whine and moan but without cross server I do not see this happening.

 

If they do split and go solo v solo only I bet me crappy paycheck that people will complain that some playeres are more skilled and demand a matchmaking system for the solo queue.

 

Matchmaking is a false argument - if anything, the only people they should be matchmaking ARE premades in ranked. There is something measurable there in ranked. Solo matchmaking would only be a buggy, bug-bomb, bugmobile of a disaster.

 

Anyway what you really want and need Cycao, is some kind of 4-man que - I'll even go you one better: 4-man only 'minizones' designed to be as much of a feature our 5 today, at a scale to work for four players, again, designed to give practicing premades a way to build and test their coordination.

 

If you're all spilling over into our que because you want to practice without losing standing, that ^ is what BW should do. If they can't do that, they should supplement ranked queue with a 4-man non-penalty queue where aspiring solos can fill in the gaps.

 

So: ranked, non-penalty group queue, and solo. I would predict no lack of activity in the middle group, and we'll even do you a favor and be stuck with all the solos who are so bad they spend the entire huttball match chasing down lone assissins.

 

Lastly, One problem solo players have had getting our solo toggle is that devs like to have suggestions posted in the suggestion box and PVP players rarely leave the PVP board. If you are a PVP player who wants a solo toggle, please further that cause by signing the link below and letting devs know that it's important.

 

Like the other guy said a few pages back, it's infuriating to go 263 pages here and get absolutely ZERO feedback from the developers. 263 pages - think there's interest in solo-play warzones?

Edited May 30, 2013 by Comfterbilly

[Fordel]

I think you're overestimating how many people actually PvP with any regularity. It's totally common for me to see pretty much the same 8-16 people in every warzone for hours on end.

 

No matchmaking system is fixing that as long as the top 4-8 players get to lock themselves in together. /shrug

 

 

Like, how common are actual ranked matches? My understanding is outside of setting up specific hours across all the ranked teams, they aren't common at all. Which is why people really want cross server ranked and stuff.

 

 

There's just not enough folks PvPing.

[cycao]

Focus fire is way overrated as a concept because the strongest healer, the Operative, strongly negates any kind of focus fire due to his incredible mobility and ability to cast heal on the run. A lot of time you have a better chance at killing a DPS than an Operative simply because the Operative always have LoS to himself while this is not necessarily true to any particular DPS. Right now only a Commando is adversely affected by being attack as most of their heals are still interruptible and nobody is saying Commando healers are overpowered (though they're not weak, just not overpowered).

 

In fact saying focus fire on healers generally shows a lack of understanding on your team. In most games, it is better to focus fire on the DPS first because DPS normally don't run through pillars like healers do when they're being attacked, and due to the emphasis on heavy heals in most games, this means if you kill even one DPS, the enemy team's ability to kill anybody is greatly compromised and then you can slowly figure out how to kill their healers now that nobody on your team is dying. A team that's built on the 'can't lose' concept quickly becomes 'can't win' if even one DPS dies due to a lack of DPS, since overpowered healing applies in the other direction too.

 

Wait, you're the guy who thinks no one can kill an op healer 1v1 right and now you are saying they can survive against focus fire?

 

I hope I get still post here when my sub runs out because I ge tmore entertainment from these forums than I do in game.

Edited May 30, 2013 by cycao

[Jadescythe]

I think you're overestimating how many people actually PvP with any regularity. It's totally common for me to see pretty much the same 8-16 people in every warzone for hours on end.

 

No matchmaking system is fixing that as long as the top 4-8 players get to lock themselves in together. /shrug

 

 

Like, how common are actual ranked matches? My understanding is outside of setting up specific hours across all the ranked teams, they aren't common at all. Which is why people really want cross server ranked and stuff.

 

 

There's just not enough folks PvPing.

 

PvP queues are always popping and I see different people all the time. Ranked queues are a different story, but when you have to have 8 people and your rating is on the line (well who cares right now, but seriously), it's hard to expect queues to be popping non stop.

[Astarica]

Wait, you're the guy who thinks no one can kill an op healer 1v1 right and now you are saying they can survive against focus fire?

 

I hope I get still post here when my sub runs out because I ge tmore entertainment from these forums than I do in game.

 

It's pretty hard for someone who doesn't understand how the DPS versus healer metagame works to get what I'm saying but I'll try to explain this. If you attack an Operative, he is usually standing near a pillar. It doesn't matter how many how many people you send after him, because between pillar and his various tools he will almost always lose the DPS on him, while healing himself for 100% of his normal HPS on the move, since he always has LOS to himself while going around a pillar.

 

However, since Operatives usually stand near by pillars, this means their LOS to the rest of the team is usually limited, which means it is quite possible to burst down other DPS. Further, DPS do not respond to being attacked by going around a pillar, as this would prevent them from doing their primary function (do damage). This small head start you get due to the Operative not always having LOS on his DPS is sometimes enough to overpower his healing and get you the kill.

 

Of course if an Operative starts out standing out in the open this wouldn't work, but even Operatives are killable if they stand out in the open for extended time, which is why nobody good is going to stay out in the open for extended period of time. It is safe to assume any respectable Operative will quickly be heading toward a pillar when under attack. A successful attack on an Operative healing team involves one or two guys forcing the Operative to retreat behind a pillar, and then hoping that during the time Operative has his heals blocked by the pillar you can finish off somebody. It won't make the Operative any easier to kill but it's one less person you've to worry about for the next 20 seconds.

[cycao]

It's pretty hard for someone who doesn't understand how the DPS versus healer metagame works to get what I'm saying but I'll try to explain this. If you attack an Operative, he is usually standing near a pillar. It doesn't matter how many how many people you send after him, because between pillar and his various tools he will almost always lose the DPS on him, while healing himself for 100% of his normal HPS on the move, since he always has LOS to himself while going around a pillar.

 

However, since Operatives usually stand near by pillars, this means their LOS to the rest of the team is usually limited, which means it is quite possible to burst down other DPS. Further, DPS do not respond to being attacked by going around a pillar, as this would prevent them from doing their primary function (do damage). This small head start you get due to the Operative not always having LOS on his DPS is sometimes enough to overpower his healing and get you the kill.

 

Of course if an Operative starts out standing out in the open this wouldn't work, but even Operatives are killable if they stand out in the open for extended time, which is why nobody good is going to stay out in the open for extended period of time. It is safe to assume any respectable Operative will quickly be heading toward a pillar when under attack. A successful attack on an Operative healing team involves one or two guys forcing the Operative to retreat behind a pillar, and then hoping that during the time Operative has his heals blocked by the pillar you can finish off somebody. It won't make the Operative any easier to kill but it's one less person you've to worry about for the next 20 seconds.

 

Brilliant.

 

I'm going to walk off a cliff now.

[DeadDogBarking]

I just changed guilds so that I could be part of 4 man premades. Mostly from the POV of medals and gearing my lvl 55. I really like playing solo and only consider bads as those that always run to capture the 1st node and leave the looser of the foot race to guard and those that guard nodes as pairs when loosing and put funny spam in chat. Also in a premade you do not need to worry as much about quitters. Also I really do not want to continue competing against folks who farm their gear as premades. If I can at least slow them down - better. This is kinda like a MMO arms race. This is the general consensus of the folks I am playing with "beat em join em"

[dufox]

If you're all spilling over into our que because you want to practice without losing standing, that ^ is what BW should do. If they can't do that, they should supplement ranked queue with a 4-man non-penalty queue where aspiring solos can fill in the gaps.

 

So: ranked, non-penalty group queue, and solo. I would predict no lack of activity in the middle group, and we'll even do you a favor and be stuck with all the solos who are so bad they spend the entire huttball match chasing down lone assissins.

 

Lastly, One problem solo players have had getting our solo toggle is that devs like to have suggestions posted in the suggestion box and PVP players rarely leave the PVP board. If you are a PVP player who wants a solo toggle, please further that cause by signing the link below and letting devs know that it's important.

 

Like the other guy said a few pages back, it's infuriating to go 263 pages here and get absolutely ZERO feedback from the developers. 263 pages - think there's interest in solo-play warzones?

 

what your saying here is add solo only ques. so you can solo que and fight only solo que's

then add a premade que that solo's have the option to join with.

 

which translates into you do not want to fight against premades when your solo queing but its ok to force a premade to fight with solo que's. the only thing a solo pvp que "fixes" is you avoid getting your *** kick by better teams while other premades still have to worry about fighting 2 premades with a team of pugs.

 

stop with your hate of premades for long enough to see the massive double standards you have decided to set just to avoid fighting groups of people who enjoy pvping with their friends.(don't forget 90% of those premades are groups of friends in a guild pvping, atleast half of those are not using voice chat.)

 

ima go ahead and assume with a signature like that im not gonna change your mind but atleast i can say i tried lol.

one of these days, even if its on a different game you will eventually wanna slap yourself for broadcasting a signature like that.

 

ps absolutely no response from a dev team on a topic that has gone on for so long should be a red flag for people who agree with the topic.

[Comfterbilly]

what your saying here is add solo only ques. so you can solo que and fight only solo que's

then add a premade que that solo's have the option to join with.

 

which translates into you do not want to fight against premades when your solo queing but its ok to force a premade to fight with solo que's. the only thing a solo pvp que "fixes" is you avoid getting your *** kick by better teams while other premades still have to worry about fighting 2 premades with a team of pugs.

 

ps absolutely no response from a dev team on a topic that has gone on for so long should be a red flag for people who agree with the topic.

 

It's a red flag to thousands of solo PVP'ers in the market for a game provider that's ready to earn their business, to keep on looking. If pugs + premades is a forced marriage, premades are the fat girl no one wants to marry, pugs are the eligible bachelor with a lot of better options, and the devs are the fat girl's dad with a pitch fork ready to force you to get married.

 

That's about all the sense there is to be made from your illiterate little mess up there. The rest of your argument is, as follows:

 

You guys don't want to play with us but that's no fair because we have to play with you!

 

Do you see that you are arguing for both things there ^ ?

[dufox]

It's a red flag to thousands of solo PVP'ers in the market for a game provider that's ready to earn their business, to keep on looking. If pugs + premades is a forced marriage, premades are the fat girl no one wants to marry, pugs are the eligible bachelor with a lot of better options, and the devs are the fat girl's dad with a pitch fork ready to force you to get married.

 

That's about all the sense there is to be made from your illiterate little mess up there. The rest of your argument is, as follows:

 

 

 

Do you see that you are arguing for both things there ^ ?

 

must be awkward when the illiterate guy can comprehend **** you cant.

[Unrestrained-]

If pugs + premades is a forced marriage, premades are the fat girl no one wants to marry, pugs are the eligible bachelor with a lot of better options, and the devs are the fat girl's dad with a pitch fork ready to force you to get married.

 

http://i.imgur.com/pRJfgXW.gif @ your metaphor

[Comfterbilly]

http://i.imgur.com/pRJfgXW.gif @ your metaphor

 

Touché.

[HuaRya]

It's a red flag to thousands of solo PVP'ers in the market for a game provider that's ready to earn their business, to keep on looking. If pugs + premades is a forced marriage, premades are the fat girl no one wants to marry, pugs are the eligible bachelor with a lot of better options, and the devs are the fat girl's dad with a pitch fork ready to force you to get married.

 

^

that times five

[Comfterbilly]

HELLO! DEVS! What is your official position on the large piece of the PVP pie who justifiably demand a solo-only queue?

 

Thanks!!!

[Kovaos]

I don't know what we're yelling about! Edited May 31, 2013 by Kovaos

[Comfterbilly]

Just kind of insufferable at this point, all this time, so many, many, many noted objections, we see links from other companies posting a measured and thoughtful policy about solo queue, it's been well over a year, why can't they acknowledge the resounding complaint and at least say they're considering it? Edited May 31, 2013 by Comfterbilly

[cycao]

I don't know what we're yelling about!

 

Loud noises!!!!!

[Kontraz]

Let me try with another football (soccer) analogy. I am attempting to keep from committing strawman.

 

You live in a city and want to play football. You don't have a yard, so that isn't an option. The only option you have is the park, which has two football fields. One is reserved exclusively for league matches (ranked) in which a team must be fully registered, have a full roster, wins/losses are recorded and prizes are given out accordingly. The other option is a general rec field in which players can play pick-up games, friends can play in groups, and league teams are able to practice.

 

You go out to play and find yourself on a make-shift pickup team and you are beaten quite a few times by the practicing league teams or the friends that have made their own teams. This leaves you with a number of options.

 

A) You can create an inspiring tale of how you formed your own team, came back, and beat all the others. (make a premade)

 

B) You join one of the existing teams in place and rise to a state of stardom within the league. (join a premade)

 

C) You take your ball and go home, or possibly try out another sport. (quit the game)

 

D) Whine and complain to the owners of the field that it isn't fair for league teams to practice on the field or for groups of friends to play together.

 

Unfortunately, it seems like there are a number of people in these forums who prefer option D, which is quite sad. Option C seems to be threatened often, but most do not choose this. If options A or B were practiced more often, I doubt there would even be a need for this thread.

[TonyDragonflame]

Let me try with another football (soccer) analogy. I am attempting to keep from committing strawman.

.

 

Dude, your analogy awful. Cuz there is not any analogy with sport team play, there is only analogy with figth solo individuals guerillas vs. regular army. Vietnam, Afgan, Iraq, Kosovo dude.

Edited May 31, 2013 by TonyDragonflame

[Kontraz]

Dude, your analogy awful. Cuz there is not any analogy with sport team play, there is only analogy with figth solo individuals guerillas vs. regular army. Vietnam, Afgan, Iraq, Kosovo dude.

 

Umm... how exactly does my analogy break down? Seems pretty solid from my perspective. You aren't forced to play (or fight) and do it for recreation. Seems like casual sports play to me.

[cycao]

Dude, your analogy awful. Cuz there is not any analogy with sport team play, there is only analogy with figth solo individuals guerillas vs. regular army. Vietnam, Afgan, Iraq, Kosovo dude.

 

You're comparing PvP in a video game to figting in an actual war?