Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Raansu]

Typical arrogant response. You cant control (no matter what skill level you are) what or who you are in Que with or what skill level the other 7 people are.

 

So when you roll in a premade, you set yourself up in a way that is unachievable while playing solo... and that is: you can Que with other players you know... half your team is hand picked. Don't proclaim a single individual's skill level is a mirror of the total team output or the outcome of the game, that is just retarded reasoning and you know it.

 

You said so in your own post..

 

"usually it's pugs getting beaten by premades because lots of premades group up with good players so that they aren't grouped up with as many bads."

 

Exactly the point.

You stated the obvious disadvantage to solo players in your own post.

 

First you act as if the reason anyone gets beat by a premade is because they are not good enough to outplay four other toons. Then you go on to say that people "premade" (used as a verb) so they dont have to play with as many bads...

 

This is like saying... "Oh I dont play solo because of there being too many bads on my team but I play in a premade so it is the solo player's problem and they must be bads if they dont win...

 

Your logic is hilarious.

 

If you want to que as a group you should have to wait until you are qued against another group. How exactly is this unfair?

 

Because its just regs? Who gives a damn....This argument has been going for 3 years and BW has not once posted in a thread about it. Guess what? That means they don't intend on changing it which means its time for you to learn to MMO.

[NuSeC]

Because its just regs? Who gives a damn....This argument has been going for 3 years and BW has not once posted in a thread about it. Guess what? That means they don't intend on changing it which means its time for you to learn to MMO.

 

 

Oh please dude... just because they have not posted does not mean they don't look at metrics, population issues or community issues.

 

I am "big-time" social 10 on several toons... I "MMO" just fine. The fact that it is "just regs" has nothing to do with the issue... that's like saying "it's just flashpoints" or "it's just dailies" it means nothing for you to say that. Also, if you don't like the thread... nobody is asking for you to post in it nor does anyone need your permission. Don't get me wrong, you can post if you want, but for you to ask why others are posting about an issue that bothers them is just asinine.

[Anyakaschala]

That's because they're not easy wins. If premades were interested in competition, group ranked would be thriving.

 

might be helpful to read my post. The point being that not all pre-mades are pug-stompers. thus, forcing pre-mades out you are destroying the reasoning a lot of casual pvpers. The guild group that is just joining for conquest points, for example. hell, yesterday I rolled over a 4 person premade in a deathmatch, and yeah, I was in a pug.

 

Point being, I don't really know if they were any good, but as a pug group, we talked, listened, and executed, we pwned their heals, and then they were completely out of sorts. all it takes is people willing to talk and listen, and pugs can work.

 

And heaven forbid if that pre-made were forced to queue for ranked, they might quit pvping altogether. They were definitely not ready for primetime ranked.

 

the biggest issue that pug pvp has is communication. And the problem isn't availability, the problem is they don't communicate and/or don't watch for calls or make calls. In objective based pvp, this is a fundamental pvp101 necessity.

[Anyakaschala]

Making friends and playing against other groups of friends is too hard for you.

 

 

 

Yea, there's a new thread pops up once a week or a month or so, nothing big. When the premades were cut off from camping pugs, Rift's forums were nothing but whine threads. And yet, all those people posting and crying about not being able to 'play with their friends' and the premade queue was devoid of life. Because most premades can't handle the heat.

 

not all pre-mades are made equally. Most aren't pug-stomping, in your face, wanting to stomp the "carebears". Most are just grouping for dailies and weeklies and really aren't very good. Forcing them into ranked is just an incredibly bad proposition. Either they will jsut quit pvping, queue sync.

 

I would also add that for groups that are trying to prepare a team for ranked, they need a place to practice, or warm up, or find out how or if their group composition works, and how well it does work. Forcing them into ranked against teams that have experience, fully geared, etc... is just a recipe for going 0-10 and not being able to recover your ranking from the beatings in the current rankings model

[shyroman]

Typical arrogant response. You cant control (no matter what skill level you are) what or who you are in Que with or what skill level the other 7 people are.

 

So when you roll in a premade, you set yourself up in a way that is unachievable while playing solo... and that is: you can Que with other players you know... half your team is hand picked. Don't proclaim a single individual's skill level is a mirror of the total team output or the outcome of the game, that is just retarded reasoning and you know it.

 

You said so in your own post..

 

"usually it's pugs getting beaten by premades because lots of premades group up with good players so that they aren't grouped up with as many bads."

 

Exactly the point.

You stated the obvious disadvantage to solo players in your own post.

 

First you act as if the reason anyone gets beat by a premade is because they are not good enough to outplay four other toons. Then you go on to say that people "premade" (used as a verb) so they dont have to play with as many bads...

 

This is like saying... "Oh I dont play solo because of there being too many bads on my team but I play in a premade so it is the solo player's problem and they must be bads if they dont win...

 

Your logic is hilarious.

 

If you want to que as a group you should have to wait until you are qued against another group. How exactly is this unfair?

 

You actually can control some people that are on your team, it's called grouping up so your first point is invalid. Don't want to? Well that's your decision so stop trying to force others to do the same.

 

Where did I say that an individual's skill level mirrors the rest of the team? Nowhere because that argument is ridiculous.

 

I also never said that if a solo player loses to a premade then they are automatically a bad player, I said that bad players will lose to premades, regardless if the bad is queuing solo or in a group of their own. If a player is good and gets put up against a good premade, then they won't be completely shut down, never said that they were bad that they couldn't outplay 4 players on their own.

 

To your last point, every time I've queued up in a group, I've been put up against another premade, unless there are no other groups in queue. I think that's the 4th or 5th time I've said that in this thread alone. I can't believe that people always pass right over it. I have also said many times that you don't always know that there isn't a group on your team. I've seen people group up with non guildies all the time.

[DariusCalera]

Oh please dude... just because they have not posted does not mean they don't look at metrics, population issues or community issues.

 

The do look at these and when something is determined to be out of sorts they change it and in less than 3 years.

 

So one would have to assume, that seeing how threads like this one continually pop up, that those clamoring for change are in the minority and that, according to metrics, BW feels the community gains far more by maintaining the status quo than it would by changing it.

[Anyakaschala]

The do look at these and when something is determined to be out of sorts they change it and in less than 3 years.

 

So one would have to assume, that seeing how threads like this one continually pop up, that those clamoring for change are in the minority and that, according to metrics, BW feels the community gains far more by maintaining the status quo than it would by changing it.

 

BW probably has a way of determining the success or failure of pre-mades vs pugs as well. Add that since the queue does try and match premade vs premade, the point is pretty much moot. Sure, there are going to be some anomalies, but for the most part, from my experience, as someone who does both solo and group queues, the game does try and do this. Sure, it's going to seem like it fails sometimes, but do we really know how many groups are queueing? There could be 7 teams queueing, 4v4 in a death match, basically 8v8 in another, and you have another random group that will get matched against a pug. Add that even in that scenario, they all would essentially have to queue at near the same time.

[NuSeC]

The do look at these and when something is determined to be out of sorts they change it and in less than 3 years.

 

So one would have to assume, that seeing how threads like this one continually pop up, that those clamoring for change are in the minority and that, according to metrics, BW feels the community gains far more by maintaining the status quo than it would by changing it.

 

LMAO!

 

Really? So cross-server que is working as intended then? How long did smash take to fix, bubble stun, the operative nerf that took forever to get addressed? What about server populations and transfers?

 

If the posts bother you then why reply? Ignore them... if BW is going to do nothing then just let people get it off their chest and move on.

If this is an issue that you think is a non-issue... why post in these threads at all? You're just wasting your time posting on these threads right? Considering you feel BW will do nothing anyways, why worry about what people say about it? It being a non issue and all... I recall the same such talk prior to the smash nerf... "smash is fine BW would have fixed it already if it needed it"... etc.

[Jadescythe]

LMAO!

 

Really? So cross-server que is working as intended then? How long did smash take to fix, bubble stun, the operative nerf that took forever to get addressed? What about server populations and transfers?

 

If the posts bother you then why reply? Ignore them... if BW is going to do nothing then just let people get it off their chest and move on.

If this is an issue that you think is a non-issue... why post in these threads at all? You're just wasting your time posting on these threads right? Considering you feel BW will do nothing anyways, why worry about what people say about it? It being a non issue and all... I recall the same such talk prior to the smash nerf... "smash is fine BW would have fixed it already if it needed it"... etc.

 

Everything you listed was commented on and/or fixed within 3 years. So if this is such a problem, why has BW not done either? Because they continue encouraging players to group and complete content. And there is nothing broken here.

[Unperson]

Randoms who stop queueing are just tourists in my opinion and the queues are better off without them. Any player who enjoys pvp and wants to get better will persist. I took beating after beating when I started playing, but stuck with it and would now describe myself as servicable.

 

Wow, just wow.

 

So, since, for whatever reason, you stuck with the beatings and soldiered on (badarseoverhere.jpg), that means everyone should follow suit, and the system works perfectly fine, right?

 

And people wonder why the PVP pop is so small and has the reputation it does.

 

Conquests was the perfect opportunity to get more people really into PVP. But thanks to the way objectives are set up, (a few) premades farming pugs, and the non-existent matchmaking it's another wasted opportunity that will result in "tourists" permanently remaining so and not ever giving a flying **** about PVP - while also making life miserable for the rest of us. The least of these issues is premades farming pugs in regs, but when it happens it blows big time. And people tend to remember bad experiences much more vividly than average or even good ones.

 

They really need to do x-server queues.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Unperson

[Vember]

You are not advocating for the majority lol. Quit trying to spin it. All you are doing is calling out groups who queue regs. You did it here in this thread and I remember seeing some of the same **** on the Harbinger pvp guild thread. Don't run away from that now.

 

Randoms who stop queueing are just tourists in my opinion and the queues are better off without them. Any player who enjoys pvp and wants to get better will persist. I took beating after beating when I started playing, but stuck with it and would now describe myself as servicable.

 

You want to talk about crutches? What is your teams ranked comp? Full of overtuned classes I'm sure. I'm assuming an assassin or two, probably a jugg tank and an op healer. Please please tell me I'm wrong.

 

I've made it pretty clear in every post I make - premades in pug queues are carebears. I'm not sure what you think I'm trying to spin, I've never deviated from this line in any way. Also, premades are the minority. I've openly agreed that premades in pug queues aren't as big an issue as many make them out to be. But it doesn't change the fact, that if you're team stacking in pugs you're a candy ***.

 

And for your info, those 'tourists' are the majority, the solo pug players are the ones that fill the queues. When your geared premades spawn camp pugs and jerk each other's e-peens on Mumble, you're chasing off the queue fillers. I know you're too bad for ranked, the guys doing ranked know you're too bad for ranked, and the tourists know you're too bad for ranked.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Vember

[sirullrich]

Wow, just wow.

 

So, since, for whatever reason, you stuck with the beatings and soldiered on (badarseoverhere.jpg), that means everyone should follow suit, and the system works perfectly fine, right?

 

And people wonder why the PVP pop is so small and has the reputation it does.

 

Conquests was the perfect opportunity to get more people really into PVP. But thanks to the way objectives are set up, (a few) premades farming pugs, and the non-existent matchmaking it's another wasted opportunity that will result in "tourists" permanently remaining so and not ever giving a flying **** about PVP - while also making life miserable for the rest of us. The least of these issues is premades farming pugs in regs, but when it happens it blows big time. And people tend to remember bad experiences much more vividly than average or even good ones.

 

They really need to do x-server queues.

 

That just because majority of people are weak mentally and do not challenge themselves. Of course the bad experiences always stand out, but if you can over come those experiences. These are the people who will become mentally tougher in the future especially when they hit tough times. You are basically saying that if a kid is struggling in school it's okay for him to quit. NICE LOGIC MAN. Keep defending quitters bro.

[sirullrich]

I've made it pretty clear in every post I make - premades in pug queues are carebears. I'm not sure what you think I'm trying to spin, I've never deviated from this line in any way. Also, premades are the minority. I've openly agreed that premades in pug queues aren't as big an issue as many make them out to be. But it doesn't change the fact, that if you're team stacking in pugs you're a candy ***.

 

And for your info, those 'tourists' are the majority, the solo pug players are the ones that fill the queues. When your geared premades spawn camp pugs and jerk each other's e-peens on Mumble, you're chasing off the queue fillers. I know you're too bad for ranked, the guys doing ranked know you're too bad for ranked, and the tourists know you're too bad for ranked.

 

Until you can prove that there are more solo q' people compared to premades you have no argument. Everything you are saying is opinion driven. Not one comment is based on fact.

[Jadescythe]

Until you can prove that there are more solo q' people compared to premades you have no argument. Everything you are saying is opinion driven. Not one comment is based on fact.

 

WHOA WHOA WHOA! You can't come into a discussion on the SWTOR forums asking for evidence and logical reasoning!

[Jimmajamma]

Wow, just wow.

 

So, since, for whatever reason, you stuck with the beatings and soldiered on (badarseoverhere.jpg), that means everyone should follow suit, and the system works perfectly fine, right?

 

And people wonder why the PVP pop is so small and has the reputation it does.

 

Conquests was the perfect opportunity to get more people really into PVP. But thanks to the way objectives are set up, (a few) premades farming pugs, and the non-existent matchmaking it's another wasted opportunity that will result in "tourists" permanently remaining so and not ever giving a flying **** about PVP - while also making life miserable for the rest of us. The least of these issues is premades farming pugs in regs, but when it happens it blows big time. And people tend to remember bad experiences much more vividly than average or even good ones.

 

They really need to do x-server queues.

 

Yes, everyone should take their beatings and soldier on. That is how you get better. Figure out where you are failing and correct.

 

Conquests will get more people into pvp. Most of those people will take beatings early on. Many will quit and go back to beating up NPCs with structured mechanics that can't think or adapt. Others will stay and try to get better. I applaud those that do.

[foxmob]

mmm. counting 2-3m's is pretty close. but the full up 4m's are definitely outnumbered on every server I've been on. I exclude the smaller premades mostly because I don't notice them or don't realize that they're grp'd. but I'd say the 4m's are clearly outnumbered.

[foxmob]

Yes, everyone should take their beatings and soldier on. That is how you get better. Figure out where you are failing and correct.

 

honestly, if my team is so over matched that we're getting pushed out of mid to our own pylon, I'll just leave. who cares? it's regs. it's not fun just getting mauled. ok. the other guys are much better. meh. requeue. I've long since given away any heroic ideals of honor. especially given the vitriol ppl spew at each other in WZs (same team usually lol). if I were in a grp of 4, I'd feel obligated to stay. but I solo. so meh. no obligation whatsoever to sit there for 5-12 mins and get stepped on and spawn camped.

[Unperson]

You are basically saying that if a kid is struggling in school it's okay for him to quit. NICE LOGIC MAN. Keep defending quitters bro.

 

ROFL

 

Look, "bro". I earn a living as a personal trainer so I know all about struggling, overcoming obstacles, challenging yourself and all that crap that makes for great Facebook slogan pics, but terrible real life advice. So spare me the internet tough guy talk, "bro", because I have actual real world first-hand experience in helping people improve at things that are not quite so trivial as a video game. Comprende?

 

What I'm really saying that making it enjoyable for people to learn and progressively improve at an activity they partake in purely for recreational purposes is going to result in people staying for longer, becoming more invested, and getting more people to try it thanks to the wonderful phenomenon that is word of mouth. Getting your teeth kicked in WZ after WZ is most definitely not enjoyable or a valuable learning experience, and it sure as **** is not something you recommend to your friends. And, as a PVPer, a larger pop is something I would really want to see.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Unperson

[Jimmajamma]

I've made it pretty clear in every post I make - premades in pug queues are carebears. I'm not sure what you think I'm trying to spin, I've never deviated from this line in any way. Also, premades are the minority. I've openly agreed that premades in pug queues aren't as big an issue as many make them out to be. But it doesn't change the fact, that if you're team stacking in pugs you're a candy ***.

 

And for your info, those 'tourists' are the majority, the solo pug players are the ones that fill the queues. When your geared premades spawn camp pugs and jerk each other's e-peens on Mumble, you're chasing off the queue fillers. I know you're too bad for ranked, the guys doing ranked know you're too bad for ranked, and the tourists know you're too bad for ranked.

 

No. You just tried to detract from that by saying you are "advocating for the majority". You're full of ****. Plain and simple.

 

ps - we do our c-jerking on TS, not mumble

[DariusCalera]

LMAO!

 

Really? So cross-server que is working as intended then? How long did smash take to fix, bubble stun, the operative nerf that took forever to get addressed? What about server populations and transfers?

 

If the posts bother you then why reply? Ignore them... if BW is going to do nothing then just let people get it off their chest and move on.

If this is an issue that you think is a non-issue... why post in these threads at all? You're just wasting your time posting on these threads right? Considering you feel BW will do nothing anyways, why worry about what people say about it? It being a non issue and all... I recall the same such talk prior to the smash nerf... "smash is fine BW would have fixed it already if it needed it"... etc.

 

Because it is somewhat hilarious to see how worked up people get over a game.

 

I just find the whole premade vs pug argument extremely hypocritical. Players complain about premades and how much face rolling they do against pugs. But, those same people are more than willing to tolerate a premade when it is on their side and having said premade is beneficial to them.

 

I've yet to see anyone that is against premades say that they drop when they see one, or what might be one, on their team.

 

So until players start to leave WZs when they have a premade on their side and they are winning any argument posted by same players against premades is, indeed, hypocritical.

[NuSeC]

Everything you listed was commented on and/or fixed within 3 years. So if this is such a problem, why has BW not done either? Because they continue encouraging players to group and complete content. And there is nothing broken here.

 

Yes commented on... that does not mean it is fixed. Want me to name some issues that still exist in maps or toon abilities not working as intended still? How about Jugg or knights falling threw the ground after charge? How about intercede / guardian leap, still not working as intended OMG could I go on and on and that is just one toon... if you look there is a plethora of items/issues still needing fixed. So acting as if there are no issues is just kidding yourself. Cross server would fix this and that is what I argued for before. So seeing as that is not going to happen. I have changed my position on premades against pugs in WZs. It is that simple.

 

Your reasoning for people to stop posting is because its an old issue and it is not an old issue. The problem is intensified greatly because of server pops and potentially facing the same pre-made against pug group over and over. Again, acting like this is not an issue is just kidding yourself.

 

So tell us why you don't want pug group against pug group and premade against premade... as that is at the core of what I am talking about.

[sirullrich]

ROFL

 

Look, "bro". I earn a living as a personal trainer so I know all about struggling, overcoming obstacles, challenging yourself and all that crap that makes for great Facebook slogan pics, but terrible real life advice. So spare me the internet tough guy talk, "bro", because I have actual real world first-hand experience in helping people improve at things that are not quite so trivial as a video game. Comprende?

 

What I'm really saying that making it enjoyable for people to learn and progressively improve at an activity they partake in purely for recreational purposes is going to result in people staying for longer, becoming more invested, and getting more people to try it thanks to the wonderful phenomenon that is word of mouth. Getting your teeth kicked in WZ after WZ is most definitely not enjoyable or a valuable learning experience, and it sure as **** is not something you recommend to your friends. And, as a PVPer, a larger pop is something I would really want to see.

 

So what if you are personal trainer. Do you tell your clients to give up if they can't lose the weight? I coach teams who have won national championships in sports. If we quit after a few losses then we would never be national champions. You say that is bad real life advice, but how can it be bad when I basically said don't ever quit. You sure you a trainer? How is that being a tough guy? Aren't you the one taking it personal? Did I hit a nerve or something? Is telling people not to quit a bad thing?

 

For your second paragraph. Nothing but opinion. No facts. How do you know it's only pugs who get there **** kicked in? You assuming that only pugs lose. Again opinion. If the person is losing WZ after WZ how do you know it's because of PREMADES? How do you know it's not because the player is just bad and needs to learn? Nobody knows is what I'm saying. You can only control things within your grasp. You can't just sit here and assume that your opinion is greater than anyone else's.

 

The premade issue will never be fixed because bw/ea do not think it's important. So if you really wanted more people to play you would encourage people to group up instead of splitting the population. How does that logic even work. You want more people to play, but want to separate the players?

Edited September 10, 2014 by sirullrich

[NuSeC]

Because it is somewhat hilarious to see how worked up people get over a game.

 

A game that is invested in with both an extraordinary amount of money and time.

 

I just find the whole premade vs pug argument extremely hypocritical. Players complain about premades and how much face rolling they do against pugs. But, those same people are more than willing to tolerate a premade when it is on their side and having said premade is beneficial to them.

 

You realize when people say that they don't want premades in pugs they know that also equates to them not having a premade on their team as well. I don't see anything hypocritical with that.

 

I've yet to see anyone that is against premades say that they drop when they see one, or what might be one, on their team.

 

I dont drop when I am against one either. If you dropped out everytime there "might be" (as you put it) a premade on either team, you might as well never q up because "might be" is a loose way of wording it.

 

So until players start to leave WZs when they have a premade on their side and they are winning any argument posted by same players against premades is, indeed, hypocritical.

 

Ah the ultimatum, I get it. it's "other people" that need to leave to intensify and exacerbate the issue before anyone thinks about making it more fair. Thus killing the population and pvp itself to prove a point.

[sirullrich]

A game that is invested in with both an extraordinary amount of money and time.

 

 

 

You realize when people say that they don't want premades in pugs they know that also equates to them not having a premade on their team as well. I don't see anything hypocritical with that.

 

 

 

I dont drop when I am against one either. If you dropped out everytime there "might be" (as you put it) a premade on either team, you might as well never q up because "might be" is a loose way of wording it.

 

 

 

Ah the ultimatum, I get it. it's "other people" that need to leave to intensify and exacerbate the issue before anyone thinks about making it more fair. Thus killing the population and pvp itself to prove a point.

 

Let me just ask you. How do you get a bigger population of players when you are splitting the population?

[NuSeC]

Until you can prove that there are more solo q' people compared to premades you have no argument. Everything you are saying is opinion driven. Not one comment is based on fact.

 

 

Do you even math bro?

 

Your statement is one of the most silliest in this thread. It is MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for there to be even close to the same amount of groups as there are solo players.

 

 

Works like this:

 

8 people on a team. Say 4 of them solo q and 1 premade group (also consisting of 4).

 

In order for your statement to make any sense... WZs would have to have at least 2x4 man premades every single time. And if you think that is the case, well, I have to question you even playing PVP in this game at all.

 

You might as well demand to see proof that the sun exists.