Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[Marrius]

So youre the reason I got a warning for that...... .

Not a good idea to dig up old bones on that subject.

 

 

 

Cross Server PvP is NEVER happening. Confirmed by the devs on numerous occasions. Matchmaking, of any kind, is likely never coming to Regs. .

 

 

Does anyone remember when Lucas was asked if he would ever digitize the original 3 SW films? He said 'never' too. But guess what...? never say never.

 

My own situation? *It is exactly the same as anyone else that pugs*. I guess pressing buttons in the right order is really just that hard....... .

 

Why be so self righteous, you have made no valid or enlightening points here, you are just all bluster with no luster.

 

Shortsighted? Yes, Im the shortsighted person. Even tho countless people in this thread asked for a) class based matchmaking and b) a solo-only queue. Guess who said that would be one of the worst ideas ever? This guy. And guess what? It's turned out to be exactly what I said........

 

Matchmaking - good

solo que - bad

 

Scroll up for the resoning from those countless people you talked about.

 

 

There will never be a response from the devs on this issue. The whole basis of the thread is absolutely absurd.

 

Again... never say never.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Marrius

[cashogy_reborn]

Not a good idea to dig up old bones on that subject.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does anyone remember when Lucas was asked if he would ever digitize the original 3 SW films? He said 'never' too. But guess what...? never say never.

 

 

 

Why be so self righteous, you have made no valid or enlightening points here, you are just all bluster with no luster.

 

 

 

Matchmaking - good

solo que - bad

 

Scroll up for the resoning from those countless people you talked about.

 

 

 

 

Again... never say never.

 

1. Lucas is not bringing the films back. Star Wars is owned by Disney.........

2. Im pretty sure I have no super power that makes me better than any other typical PUG player. I press buttons and move the mouse while looking at the screen. If youre capable of that, you should be capable of doing well in SWTOR.

3. Class based matchmaking is awful. Tried queuing for Solo Arenas as a tank or a healer lately? Not to mention, the entire idea of a 'competitive' solo queue is a joke.

4. Its very likely that the devs will come in here and discourage forming groups in an MMO.......

5. No valid points? Yea, 'personal responsibility' is a completely ridiculous idea.........

 

Edited December 11, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[PloGreen]

Cross server queues are not in the pipeline, devs have said as much. They were promised a very long time ago and then we were told they simply were not happening. In any case there aren't exactly that many servers anymore and many have been merged.

 

I don't see this as a solution that will happen anytime in the near future and most likely never will happen in this games lifetime.

Edited December 11, 2013 by PloGreen

[Marrius]

1. Lucas is not bringing the films back. Star Wars is owned by Disney.........

2. Im pretty sure I have no super power that makes me better than any other typical PUG player. I press buttons and move the mouse while looking at the screen. If youre capable of that, you should be capable of doing well in SWTOR.

3. Class based matchmaking is awful. Tried queuing for Solo Arenas as a tank or a healer lately? Not to mention, the entire idea of a 'competitive' solo queue is a joke.

4. Its very likely that the devs will come in here and discourage forming groups in an MMO.......

5. No valid points? Yea, 'personal responsibility' is a completely ridiculous idea.........

 

 

Lucas said back (maybe before you were born) he would not put the movies to digital. This was before Disney took over. Also when commenting on your self righteous attitude I was referring to your passive aggressive condescension when talking about 'pressing buttons’. It would go a long way for your creditability if you read what you are responding to.

 

Again no valid points.

[Makavelithug]

I hear solo Q's is like playing the lottery or gambling in Vegas.

 

If you got some balls then you do so and take chances without worry, cause you know the odds is against u.

 

If you want casual PVP then this isn't the game for you, some people here like organization with team play.

 

Think about that when say premades is ruining warzones, cause the chances YOU take is up to YOU only.

 

My pennies.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Makavelithug

[Marrius]

Sigh....

 

So again, why is it that most people, who think premades are ok, still don't give solid reasoning to support their arguments? Instead you just criticize the reasoning that others give to have premades removed. Or you give blanket statements like 'it will never happen so shut up and stop posting these threads'. This is not constructive and contributes nothing to the discussion.

 

I have been accused of calling people out because they disagree with me. Well as you can see if you took the time to read more than just 2 or 3 posts in this very long thread, I have actually agreed with some of the very few of you who have bothered to give reasons for your arguments.

 

I call people out who disagree with me in an illogical, rude, or uneducated fashion. So to those of you who have accused me of simply calling you out only because you disagree with me, don't hide behind those that post intelligibly. Use the few brain cells that you have and come up with at least the semblance of reason to support your argument otherwise I will call you for what you are....

 

A troll.

 

If you respond to our posts (many of which are well though out and have a much deeper reason than you might think) in a respectful manner you might be surprised that we are not trying to ruin your fun but rather enhance it.

 

Still I know that even after this post some ignoramus will get up off his patio furniture (in his living room) and spout some more illegible tripe that only serves his own sense of self importance.

[Makavelithug]

Sigh....

 

So again, why is it that most people, who think premades are ok, still don't give solid reasoning to support their arguments?

 

I told you a reason above, you refuse to listen to reason due to YOUR opinion on this matter.

 

Another words you got your mind made and NOBODY can get through to you.

 

Therefore its a waste of time and effort to make you see clearly the reason why people like grouping with friends.

 

/end thread

Edited December 11, 2013 by Makavelithug

[cashogy_reborn]

Sigh....

 

So again, why is it that most people, who think premades are ok, still don't give solid reasoning to support their arguments? Instead you just criticize the reasoning that others give to have premades removed. Or you give blanket statements like 'it will never happen so shut up and stop posting these threads'. This is not constructive and contributes nothing to the discussion.

 

I have been accused of calling people out because they disagree with me. Well as you can see if you took the time to read more than just 2 or 3 posts in this very long thread, I have actually agreed with some of the very few of you who have bothered to give reasons for your arguments.

 

I call people out who disagree with me in an illogical, rude, or uneducated fashion. So to those of you who have accused me of simply calling you out only because you disagree with me, don't hide behind those that post intelligibly. Use the few brain cells that you have and come up with at least the semblance of reason to support your argument otherwise I will call you for what you are....

 

A troll.

 

If you respond to our posts (many of which are well though out and have a much deeper reason than you might think) in a respectful manner you might be surprised that we are not trying to ruin your fun but rather enhance it.

 

Still I know that even after this post some ignoramus will get up off his patio furniture (in his living room) and spout some more illegible tripe that only serves his own sense of self importance.

 

Reasons why Premades are fine:

 

1. This is an MMO

2. You can only premade half a group

3. Forming a premade does not automatically make you good

4. See reason # 1

5. People like to play with their friends, rather than gamble on getting not good players in their group

6. See reason # 1

7. There is no penalty for leaving. Dont like who your fighting with/against? Leave the WZ and requeue immediately; you likely wont see that group again.

8. Guilds are supposed to do what when they are unable to do Ranked matches? Or would like to do 8v8 instead of 4v4?

9. Again, see reason # 1

10. Two and three player groups exist; what are they supposed to do? They do not have the option to queue for Ranked.

 

 

Premades would be 100% less of an issue of each player in the WZ worried more about what they were doing, and how they can make sure they are giving their team the greatest chance to win by playing well. Instead, I see countless players giving up at the first sign of a loss; either leaving altogether or going to sit at a node and wait out the rest of the match.

 

Just a few days ago I did an ACW with a friend (I queued as a duo). We took mid, they took west, but we were about to lose east (it was 1v4). We lost east and some guy starts raging at how bad we all are, and leaves. The match hasnt even lasted 60s by this point. Long story short: we ended up winning by 300 points. It wasnt even close.

 

Actions like that describe all too much of the player base. If people were not looking for free rides, and actually wanted to PvP and try to do well, matches would always be competitive.

 

Instead of whining about what the other team is doing, work on fixing what you can control.

 

 

As far as not contributing to this discussion, youve been participating in this thread for what, 10 pages? Ive been in this thread since page 60. Nearly 600 pages later you can see why very few people care that you are just the newest person with this complaint.

Edited December 11, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[EzioMessi]

Agreed, but since cross server aint coming as someone said somewhere. Why not a better matchmaking system and solo que only ?

 

Because you like to play with friends, I get that.

 

May I ask you what your win rating is in your games with a pre-made ? And are they like challenging games or you destroy people ?

 

My win rating is almost exactly 50-50. Just like when I PuG. I don't queue with the best players on the server with the perfect comp and voice chat. In fact, I rarely have more than one of those 3 factors going for me.

 

Our premade regularly gets beat by better players (I'm talking both premades and PuGs here).

 

Now, I'll agree to one argument. Most matches are facerolls. My side stomping theirs' or theirs' stomping mine. A fun competitive match happens once in eery 6-7 matches (unless I'm in GSF. Every match is competitive there). A matchmaker actually would solve that exact problem. An cross-server aren't exactly a requirement for a good matchmaker, because the player pool is large enough as is for Regs.

[anwg]

TOS forbids 3rd party programs, VOIP is a third party program.

 

 

A web browser is a 3rd party program too, I guess you shouldn't be using that.

 

During GSF closed beta someone asked if they can use mumble while testing, the official response was yes, as long as you are in a separate channel you won't be breaking the NDA.

[Jadescythe]

Sigh....

 

So again, why is it that most people, who think premades are ok, still don't give solid reasoning to support their arguments? Instead you just criticize the reasoning that others give to have premades removed. Or you give blanket statements like 'it will never happen so shut up and stop posting these threads'. This is not constructive and contributes nothing to the discussion.

 

I have been accused of calling people out because they disagree with me. Well as you can see if you took the time to read more than just 2 or 3 posts in this very long thread, I have actually agreed with some of the very few of you who have bothered to give reasons for your arguments.

 

I call people out who disagree with me in an illogical, rude, or uneducated fashion. So to those of you who have accused me of simply calling you out only because you disagree with me, don't hide behind those that post intelligibly. Use the few brain cells that you have and come up with at least the semblance of reason to support your argument otherwise I will call you for what you are....

 

A troll.

 

If you respond to our posts (many of which are well though out and have a much deeper reason than you might think) in a respectful manner you might be surprised that we are not trying to ruin your fun but rather enhance it.

 

Still I know that even after this post some ignoramus will get up off his patio furniture (in his living room) and spout some more illegible tripe that only serves his own sense of self importance.

 

First of all, you are a troll. If you can't see that, then I really don't know what more needs to be said. So much so, that you had to move your negativity into PMs on the website, don't worry, we got a good laugh about them

 

I am still yet to see any type of factual argument for why premading is a negative, but here are some facts as to how everything you've said in this thread is still wrong.

 

1) Population base is too small. We already have 3 queues for PvP, plus 2 more queues if you count lowbie brackets. Adding in more brackets at this point would be ridiculous to queue times for EVERYONE. This would be exceptionally bad for servers that are not POT5 or ToFN.

 

2) Solo queue does not resolve the actual issue that is lopsided team comps, unequal player skill, and unequal gear (although this is more caused by people not knowing how bolster works since they don't have 10 seconds to google it). Could it potentially equal things out? Maybe in a few circumstances, but the majority of premades I have seen aren't running ideal comps. Yesterday I had premades running 4 DPS on my team in at least half of the warzones I did. As I've said numerous times in this thread, it resolves the issue of individual players having RNG to have good players on their side and good comps, but it doesn't eliminate the RNG from matches. So there will still be stompings.

 

3) Players outside of premades can still compete with premades. The inability to do anything against a premade is an individual skill issue and will come up anytime you face a team with a higher skill level than you. I agree that players should be fighting other players of equal skill level in all queues, but as has been pointed out, the available players in queue would still probably prevent this from working.

 

4) A group queue causes logistical problems. Groups of 3 have a hard time getting games unless another group of 3 is in the queue. If you have it as a toggle, then the lack of solo players queueing with the toggle on prevents groups of 3 from getting into matches. Not to mention they then need a group of 2 to fill out the team. Add in that the number of people queuing at one time without getting a pop doubles since we could potentially have 15 players of one faction in solo queue and 7 on the other and nothing would pop. And even more in the group queue since you need the right number of players per group to get matches.

 

5) Casual groups are hurt the most. While most groups are casual, the more competitive players are far more likely than casual players to group up as 4, so casual groups will be more likely to see the top players. Grouping should be fun for all parties involved and certainly be an acceptable way to enjoy an MMO. When you run into good players facing bad players, however, you run into uneven matches that can be extremely frustrating for the losing side. I don't think it's right to consider all groups the same or think that groups are any less affected by the problem you are complaining about in this thread.

 

6) Queue sync. Welcome to the world of groups queue syncing in solo queue. It will happen, you will continue complaining. I'm very much against any type of queue syncing since it goes against the rules put in place by BW, but this will be the norm. It will be exceptionally bad on low population servers where syncing will be easy.

 

It's not a premade issue, it's a skill issue. Skill varies between premades and between PUGs. If we continue putting good players against bad players, people will continue to be bored and frustrated. Since we can't make people be worse at the game and, clearly, everyone is going to get better at the game, we need to do our best to match people more effectively. We can at least try and do some simple matchmaking during peak times when the queues are full and it's more likely to be effective.

 

I look forward to your wonderful response where you ignore anything I said that mattered and point out some small grammatical flaw, call me a kid, and/or tell me how to decorate the trailer park I live in. Or will that come in another PM?

[cycao]

I look forward to your wonderful response where you ignore anything I said that mattered and point out some small grammatical flaw, call me a kid, and/or tell me how to decorate the trailer park I live in. Or will that come in another PM?

 

It always reminds me of the interview of Dawkins and Wendy Wright where she keeps saying

[Jorojus]

Jadescythe sums it all up really nicely how the current situation is (see his big post on the previous page) , thx for that

 

The PVP in this game, I like it alot. You got all the different classes and imo, in the objective based warzones each class currently has at least one spec where it can shine in.

 

However, the current matchmaking system and not having cross servers won't give an increase in population imho.

 

I am really dissapointed that the development team fails to communicate clearly about the PVP part of the game.

Did they give up on it ?

 

I hadn't expected this from Bioware wich is one of the best game making companies.

 

Anyway I wasted too much time here, time to PVP

Edited December 11, 2013 by Jorojus

[Anzel]

First of all, you are a troll. If you can't see that, then I really don't know what more needs to be said. So much so, that you had to move your negativity into PMs on the website, don't worry, we got a good laugh about them

 

I am still yet to see any type of factual argument for why premading is a negative, but here are some facts as to how everything you've said in this thread is still wrong.

 

1) Population base is too small. We already have 3 queues for PvP, plus 2 more queues if you count lowbie brackets. Adding in more brackets at this point would be ridiculous to queue times for EVERYONE. This would be exceptionally bad for servers that are not POT5 or ToFN.

 

2) Solo queue does not resolve the actual issue that is lopsided team comps, unequal player skill, and unequal gear (although this is more caused by people not knowing how bolster works since they don't have 10 seconds to google it). Could it potentially equal things out? Maybe in a few circumstances, but the majority of premades I have seen aren't running ideal comps. Yesterday I had premades running 4 DPS on my team in at least half of the warzones I did. As I've said numerous times in this thread, it resolves the issue of individual players having RNG to have good players on their side and good comps, but it doesn't eliminate the RNG from matches. So there will still be stompings.

 

3) Players outside of premades can still compete with premades. The inability to do anything against a premade is an individual skill issue and will come up anytime you face a team with a higher skill level than you. I agree that players should be fighting other players of equal skill level in all queues, but as has been pointed out, the available players in queue would still probably prevent this from working.

 

4) A group queue causes logistical problems. Groups of 3 have a hard time getting games unless another group of 3 is in the queue. If you have it as a toggle, then the lack of solo players queueing with the toggle on prevents groups of 3 from getting into matches. Not to mention they then need a group of 2 to fill out the team. Add in that the number of people queuing at one time without getting a pop doubles since we could potentially have 15 players of one faction in solo queue and 7 on the other and nothing would pop. And even more in the group queue since you need the right number of players per group to get matches.

 

5) Casual groups are hurt the most. While most groups are casual, the more competitive players are far more likely than casual players to group up as 4, so casual groups will be more likely to see the top players. Grouping should be fun for all parties involved and certainly be an acceptable way to enjoy an MMO. When you run into good players facing bad players, however, you run into uneven matches that can be extremely frustrating for the losing side. I don't think it's right to consider all groups the same or think that groups are any less affected by the problem you are complaining about in this thread.

 

6) Queue sync. Welcome to the world of groups queue syncing in solo queue. It will happen, you will continue complaining. I'm very much against any type of queue syncing since it goes against the rules put in place by BW, but this will be the norm. It will be exceptionally bad on low population servers where syncing will be easy.

 

It's not a premade issue, it's a skill issue. Skill varies between premades and between PUGs. If we continue putting good players against bad players, people will continue to be bored and frustrated. Since we can't make people be worse at the game and, clearly, everyone is going to get better at the game, we need to do our best to match people more effectively. We can at least try and do some simple matchmaking during peak times when the queues are full and it's more likely to be effective.

 

I look forward to your wonderful response where you ignore anything I said that mattered and point out some small grammatical flaw, call me a kid, and/or tell me how to decorate the trailer park I live in. Or will that come in another PM?

 

 

I tend to agree with mostly everything you are saying here but I just feel like you're making some conflicting statements. Is it an issue of matchmaking or skill? Because if the match making is terrible then skill has nothing to do with anything.

 

You can't bracket a stacked team of professionals (Denver Broncos) against even a good team of amateurs (Michigan State... or the Cleveland Browns hahahahahahahha) and expect skill to be a factor in the outcome.

[EzioMessi]

But with some people I needn't assume; the evidence is not in that they disagree but rather in the way they disagree.

 

Thank you for exemplifying for us though.

 

You've stopped respoding with on-topic comments to my arguments. It shows just how much of a mature debate you want.

Edited December 11, 2013 by EzioMessi

[Jarvus]

You've stopped respoding with on-topic comments to my arguments. It shows just how much of a mature debate you want.

 

Maybe it just shows his lack of desire to be browbeaten by trolls who'd rather start flame wars in threads than debate issues logically.

[Uber_the_Goober]

All you long-gone fools should read this and this.

 

You're all communicating so poorly, and only responding to your perception of the other person's words, that you're not getting anywhere. It's tough to tell if it's intentional, or just the result of poor education in communication skills.

 

You may not like what cashogy has to say, but it's all true, accurate, and pretty much the only thing that needs to be said on the matter.

 

Cross server queues aren't coming (for long enough that it won't matter, there will be new problems to whine about then) and bads will be bads wether premade or not.

[cashogy_reborn]

Maybe it just shows his lack of desire to be browbeaten by trolls who'd rather start flame wars in threads than debate issues logically.

 

There is no debate anymore. The only thing that changes in this thread is that some new butthurt people come by every couple weeks to complain and rehash the same whines all over again.

[Technohic]

First of all, you are a troll. If you can't see that, then I really don't know what more needs to be said. So much so, that you had to move your negativity into PMs on the website, don't worry, we got a good laugh about them

 

I am still yet to see any type of factual argument for why premading is a negative, but here are some facts as to how everything you've said in this thread is still wrong.

 

1) Population base is too small. We already have 3 queues for PvP, plus 2 more queues if you count lowbie brackets. Adding in more brackets at this point would be ridiculous to queue times for EVERYONE. This would be exceptionally bad for servers that are not POT5 or ToFN.

 

2) Solo queue does not resolve the actual issue that is lopsided team comps, unequal player skill, and unequal gear (although this is more caused by people not knowing how bolster works since they don't have 10 seconds to google it). Could it potentially equal things out? Maybe in a few circumstances, but the majority of premades I have seen aren't running ideal comps. Yesterday I had premades running 4 DPS on my team in at least half of the warzones I did. As I've said numerous times in this thread, it resolves the issue of individual players having RNG to have good players on their side and good comps, but it doesn't eliminate the RNG from matches. So there will still be stompings.

 

3) Players outside of premades can still compete with premades. The inability to do anything against a premade is an individual skill issue and will come up anytime you face a team with a higher skill level than you. I agree that players should be fighting other players of equal skill level in all queues, but as has been pointed out, the available players in queue would still probably prevent this from working.

 

4) A group queue causes logistical problems. Groups of 3 have a hard time getting games unless another group of 3 is in the queue. If you have it as a toggle, then the lack of solo players queueing with the toggle on prevents groups of 3 from getting into matches. Not to mention they then need a group of 2 to fill out the team. Add in that the number of people queuing at one time without getting a pop doubles since we could potentially have 15 players of one faction in solo queue and 7 on the other and nothing would pop. And even more in the group queue since you need the right number of players per group to get matches.

 

5) Casual groups are hurt the most. While most groups are casual, the more competitive players are far more likely than casual players to group up as 4, so casual groups will be more likely to see the top players. Grouping should be fun for all parties involved and certainly be an acceptable way to enjoy an MMO. When you run into good players facing bad players, however, you run into uneven matches that can be extremely frustrating for the losing side. I don't think it's right to consider all groups the same or think that groups are any less affected by the problem you are complaining about in this thread.

 

6) Queue sync. Welcome to the world of groups queue syncing in solo queue. It will happen, you will continue complaining. I'm very much against any type of queue syncing since it goes against the rules put in place by BW, but this will be the norm. It will be exceptionally bad on low population servers where syncing will be easy.

 

It's not a premade issue, it's a skill issue. Skill varies between premades and between PUGs. If we continue putting good players against bad players, people will continue to be bored and frustrated. Since we can't make people be worse at the game and, clearly, everyone is going to get better at the game, we need to do our best to match people more effectively. We can at least try and do some simple matchmaking during peak times when the queues are full and it's more likely to be effective.

 

I look forward to your wonderful response where you ignore anything I said that mattered and point out some small grammatical flaw, call me a kid, and/or tell me how to decorate the trailer park I live in. Or will that come in another PM?

 

 

This pretty much sums it up. No good solution. The one thing that would enable a possible fix is not coming. I'm sure we can't stop this thread from repeating the loop with that, though. When you can't do anything about something, all there is left to do is cry.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Technohic

[EzioMessi]

Maybe it just shows his lack of desire to be browbeaten by trolls who'd rather start flame wars in threads than debate issues logically.

 

Because obviously everyone who disagrees is either a troll or an evil premade right?

 

He suggested Bioware scrap their entire PvP system and replace it with RvR. I called it a stupid idea. Still call it a stupid idea. Of course, he felt the sudden need to go on an insult spree from that point. why am I surprised.

 

Maybe I was rude in the first response, big deal. Doesn't make his idea any less silly.

[EzioMessi]

There is no debate anymore. The only thing that changes in this thread is that some new butthurt people come by every couple weeks to complain and rehash the same whines all over again.

 

^^ "A Brief History of Whines".

[cashogy_reborn]

This pretty much sums it up. No good solution. The one thing that would enable a possible fix is not coming. I'm sure we can't stop this thread from repeating the loop with that, though. When you can't do anything about something, all there is left to do is cry.

 

But they *CAN* do something! They can learn how to play better so they can compete against higher skilled players!

 

Why does nobody even consider that an option?????

[vennian]

I am really dissapointed that the development team fails to communicate clearly about the PVP part of the game.

Did they give up on it ?

 

Doubt it. But what do you expect them to say?

 

"Yes we know it's a problem. It's definitely not optimal. But we cannot do anything about it without affecting queue times to an unacceptable extent."

[cycao]

Doubt it. But what do you expect them to say?

 

"Yes we know it's a problem. It's definitely not optimal. But we cannot do anything about it without affecting queue times to an unacceptable extent."

 

Well the PvP team has screwed the pooch enough times. I almost prefer it when they don't comment.

[Jadescythe]

I just heard a mother in general chat ask for others to log low alts so they can rape lowbies in WZs.

 

And in this or the older similar thread on Page 1 of this subforum, some guy who team queues posted just yesterday that when the match is about to start he frankly says "Rape begins in 3...2....1..." So, lets get off the false moral high horse some of us seem to be on about this term.

 

When you're in private, amongst similarly minded people, you tend to say things you wouldn't otherwise say. In the context of a public, video game forum, the term rape to describe premades is at best inappropriate.

 

Perhaps you should listen to the people posting as Cashology, Cycao, and myself I know for a fact solo queue a majority of the time. We are telling you that premades are not the problem. Why do you ignorantly continue on as if we are the same people you are complaining about? And I've been to known to talk about destroying other teams, both in 55s and lowbies because I know I can, not because I have 3 other people with me.