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***Official PvE Progression V2***

Bombbuster

By Bombbuster
in The Ebon Hawk

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Bellicima

Bellicima

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Posted (edited)
Updated. Apologies for the tardiness, I was in Vegas for the weekend.

 

Also in the future, do not submit any claims for guild progression unless it is with 100% guild members. No big deal on TFB 55 since it's essentially the same fights and barely qualifies as progression, but out of fairness to the guilds that are doing their best with the rosters they have I won't be updating and S&V HM kills unless it's a full guild kill.

 

Gratz on the progression for so many guilds!

 

All of Bitte's HM S&V posts are with full 8 guildies! :) Also, I think you should mention that <Wrath>'s HM TFB kill was a server first. Even though it's revamped old content, it's an entirely different raid, and since some guilds haven't completed it yet, it should still count as progression.

Edited by Bellicima
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Taiichii

Taiichii

Posted
Posted
Updated. Apologies for the tardiness, I was in Vegas for the weekend.

 

Also in the future, do not submit any claims for guild progression unless it is with 100% guild members. No big deal on TFB 55 since it's essentially the same fights and barely qualifies as progression, but out of fairness to the guilds that are doing their best with the rosters they have I won't be updating and S&V HM kills unless it's a full guild kill.

 

Gratz on the progression for so many guilds!

 

Feel free to update Wrath then. Full guild run.

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Taiichii

Taiichii

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Not to be a jerk, but your logs indicate that you actually wiped on TfB and never reached his final phase. Specifically: Bitte (http://www.torparse.com/a/183842/41/0/Log) and Braille (http://www.torparse.com/a/183845/44/0/Log). Are the logs incomplete, or did you simply have an Anomaly still active going into the soft enrage? A quick Torparse search also turns up this group log (http://www.torparse.com/g/3316/43), which also indicates a failure on the final boss pull (probably due to the hard enrage, judging by the length of the pull).

 

You also might have mentioned that Alecia (of Zen) joined you for the clear. I think it still counts as progression, but a shout out would have been nice.

 

Actually you were being a jerk. You know better than to think that we would lie about a kill. I'm glad your able to read logs and see certain things, but come correct if your going to call anyone out for lying.

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KeyboardNinja

KeyboardNinja

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All of Bitte's HM S&V posts are with full 8 guildies! :) Also, I think you should mention that <Wrath>'s HM TFB kill was a server first. Even though it's revamped old content, it's an entirely different raid, and since some guilds haven't completed it yet, it should still count as progression.

 

Under the letter of Bombbuster's rules, the HM TfB clear doesn't count toward Wrath's progression due to Alecia's presence. With that said, I don't agree with this rule and I think it should be counted as a rightful server first. Regardless of Alecs coming, it was a Wrath clear. You could have cleared it just the same if Volk had been there, he just wasn't at 55 yet. It's not like you were bringing in a ringer from the outside to carry you through the content.

 

For a long time, <Aisthesis> was using a commando who wasn't in the guild as part of our main progression group. He ran with us every week, and was for all intents and purposes part of our guild, but he didn't wear our guild tag. Were our clears not "Aisthesis" clears? I think a clear should still count so long as the raid membership is still substantially belonging to the guild in question. This is a bit of a situational call, so I think I would leave it up to the individual guilds to decide whether or not something has been valid progression "for their guild". (for example, if <Aisthesis> were to bring in, say, three or four people from UWA to do HM S&V, that wouldn't really be progression for our guild)

 

That's a long-winded way of saying that I think Wrath's progression on HM TfB should stand as reported.

 

Actually you were being a jerk. You know better than to think that we would lie about a kill. I'm glad your able to read logs and see certain things, but come correct if your going to call anyone out for lying.

 

Thanks, Taii. It looked very suspicious, for reasons that I explained in detail. I called out the inconsistency hoping that Bitte would provide some clarification, which he did (along with Hunter's somewhat unnecessary escalation). I never called anyone a liar. If you post a kill on a progression forum thread, and that kill was made under unusual circumstances, you can't be offended when someone asks for further clarification.

 

I'm not saying that everyone needs to get super-technical with kill shots and standardized timers, but when you post something and there is significant public-record evidence which casts doubt on your claim, consider adding a few words of explanation. Just a single sentence, like "The hard enrage was really tight, and the boss bugged at the end since we left an anomaly up, so we all had to /stuck." Done.

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alexsamma

alexsamma

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Posted (edited)

o.O

 

Just wanted chime in and say thanks to Wraith for allowing me to tag along for the hm TFB run since Zen is not a raiding guild (well, we run one every now and then for the hell of it); the Wraith group is extremely talented and I had a lot of fun.

 

One thing you may want to consider is allowing groups to bring along friends from another guild who do not raid on a normal basis, I would hate to not be invited to events like this (even if I say no most of the time) because it would dis-qualify the group from officially "progressing." ---- though I can understand why you would not want to allow a group to bring in a fully geared raider from another progression group.

 

Anyway, hattitp to all of the PVE progression guilds, AB and the old Warden squad (old times!) , and Wraith for allowing me to fill in.

Edited by alexsamma
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Omophorus

Omophorus

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Under the letter of Bombbuster's rules, the HM TfB clear doesn't count toward Wrath's progression due to Alecia's presence. With that said, I don't agree with this rule and I think it should be counted as a rightful server first. Regardless of Alecs coming, it was a Wrath clear. You could have cleared it just the same if Volk had been there, he just wasn't at 55 yet. It's not like you were bringing in a ringer from the outside to carry you through the content.

 

For a long time, <Aisthesis> was using a commando who wasn't in the guild as part of our main progression group. He ran with us every week, and was for all intents and purposes part of our guild, but he didn't wear our guild tag. Were our clears not "Aisthesis" clears? I think a clear should still count so long as the raid membership is still substantially belonging to the guild in question. This is a bit of a situational call, so I think I would leave it up to the individual guilds to decide whether or not something has been valid progression "for their guild". (for example, if <Aisthesis> were to bring in, say, three or four people from UWA to do HM S&V, that wouldn't really be progression for our guild)

 

Along this vein... El Kamino was raiding with the same 8 people consistently, although at least 3 were not wearing guild tags (one was primarily in another raiding guild but used one character exclusively with us, two were in non-raiding guilds). That group of 8 formed a raid team most easily labeled "El Kamino" though by the letter of the rules we can't post progression since we're not all wearing the same tags.

 

It doesn't help that El Kamino only has 4 full-time members, a few tagged alts of friends, and none of us care to enforce guild membership vs. raid group membership as we don't want to pigeonhole our friends and fellow raiders.

 

Guess once we get a new group stabilized for 2.0 (RL changes have cost us a couple members) we'll just go about our business and not worry about this thread, even though the guild membership rule is a little strict. Team consistency is much more important than the tags over the peoples' heads, in my humble opinion.

Edited by Omophorus
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Bombbuster

Bombbuster

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Under the letter of Bombbuster's rules, the HM TfB clear doesn't count toward Wrath's progression due to Alecia's presence.
If you had checked you would have noticed I already gave Wrath credit for it. I also said I wasn't overly concerned with TFB 55.

With that said, I don't agree with this rule and I think it should be counted as a rightful server first.
I won't update as server first under Wrath's tag but will be happy to list it under Republican composite, or pug, or some such if that's what Wrath wants. However, this is all much ado about content we've all already cleared previously.

Regardless of Alecs coming, it was a Wrath clear. You could have cleared it just the same if Volk had been there, he just wasn't at 55 yet.
That's like saying <guild> would be x/7 S&V HM if Bombbuster wasn't in Vegas this weekend.:p Sorry but no mulligans for woulda, shoulda, coulda's.

 

This topic has been much, much debated in other MMO forums so we're not really adding anything new to the discussion here. For now I will assume that all S&V HM kills reported are all guild kills unless someone claims otherwise. As always, the honor system applies. If being server first on this or that is so important to a guild then they can recruit the players they need into the guild or bring up the players they have. Otherwise, put together whatever team you want, enjoy the spoils of your kills, and don' worry about some list on the internet.

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cloudblade

cloudblade

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I will respect your rules on posting clears in this thread. However, I think the fact that no one else has managed to clear HM TFB 55 yet beside <Wrath> is proof alone that HM TFB 55 is more progression than you give it credit. Also, regarding your last sentence, you shouldn't downplay your own thread or others' achievements. Obviously we do care about this list or else we wouldn't working hard to clear content every time it comes out and then reporting back here, server first or not. Edited by cloudblade
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KeyboardNinja

KeyboardNinja

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<Aisthesis> is now 6/7 on HM S&V.

 

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/192369

 

All times are MDT.

 

Oddly, Dash'roode gave us the most trouble. One shot on Titan, two shot on Thrasher, one shot Oasis, two shot Olok, then one shot the Warlords. The warlords were somewhat hilarious. We weren't aware they even had a hard enrage, which we hit at 4% on the last boss (we opted for Sunder last).

Edited by KeyboardNinja
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Taiichii

Taiichii

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Posted
<Aisthesis> is now 6/7 on HM S&V.

 

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/192369

 

All times are MDT.

 

Oddly, Dash'roode gave us the most trouble. One shot on Titan, two shot on Thrasher, one shot Oasis, two shot Olok, then one shot the Warlords. The warlords were somewhat hilarious. We weren't aware they even had a hard enrage, which we hit at 4% on the last boss (we opted for Sunder last).

 

I believe the enrage at 4% is a mechanic. We saw the exact same thing and were plenty ahead of any normal enrage timer.

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KeyboardNinja

KeyboardNinja

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I believe the enrage at 4% is a mechanic. We saw the exact same thing and were plenty ahead of any normal enrage timer.

 

You guys kill Tu'chuk last though, right? He has a stacking soft enrage, and after about 15-20 seconds that soft enrage is indistinguishable from the hard enrage (since he's doing 500-600% more damage).

 

We opted to kill Sunder last because we have two shadow tanks. When he enraged, he got the normal "red head" buff that usually indicates a hard enrage, so it didn't *seem* like a mechanic. We'll have to see. I suppose it doesn't matter much, since we treat The End as a one-shot anyway (Resilience ftw) and he never touches anyone when kited appropriately.

 

Just so we can investigate this, Sunder enraged at precisely 6 minutes, 30 seconds into the fight (counted from when I entered combat with Tu'chuk). It would be interesting to see if the timing on Tu'chuk's hard enrage is the same.

Edited by KeyboardNinja
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