***Official PvE Progression V2***

[TemptsFate]

Bane is now 2/5 in TFB HM!

[Taiichii]

<Aisthesis> is now 7/7 HM S&V. One shot on Styrak tonight!

 

I must see your log to make sure it was a "full" guild run along with no "Anomalies" left up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, grats on da kill!

[MrOscarMonster]

<Calamitous Intent> is now:

 

6/7 HM S&V

 

Proof: (link)

Not as hard as expected, we'll be finishing off Styrak later this week.

Edited May 2, 2013 by MrOscarMonster

[KeyboardNinja]

I must see your log to make sure it was a "full" guild run along with no "Anomalies" left up.

 

:-)

However, grats on da kill!

 

Thanks!

 

Not as hard as expected, we'll be finishing off Strytak later this week.

 

Good luck! The DPS check is immensely tight. The fight itself is hilariously easy...aside from the enrage.

[MrOscarMonster]

<Calamitous Intent> is now:

 

7/7 HM S&V 8man

Proof: (link)

 

After 2 and a half hours on Dread Master Styrak we are now Empire faction first for clearing both S&V HM and TfB HM! Yay! Fight was considerably harder then expected, with very tight enrage. Plus, the guide we were using failed to mention several key mechanics causing several wipes until we figured them out. Overall, a very exciting and challenging final fight, truly worthy of the legendary dread masters!

 

Cheers,

<CI> Kleric

Edited May 2, 2013 by MrOscarMonster

[DarthPanopticus]

Hey there, just realized I hadn't made an official post for my guild according the thread format, so here it is

 

Thanks for putting this together!

 

Imperial

<Silent Council>

More Info: http://www.silentcouncil.com

Eternity Vault: 5/5 SM, HM, NM 8M & 16M

Karagga's Palace: 5/5 SM, HM, NM 8M & 16M

Explosive Conflict: 4/4 SM 8M, 4/4 HM 8M, 4/4 SM 16M

Terror from Beyond: 5/5 SM, 5/5 HM 8M

TFB 55: 5/5 SM (4/10/2013 Server First), 2/5 HM 8M

S&V: 7/7 SM 8M (Server First (4/11/2013))

Dreadtooth 10 Stack (It was a full guild run & pretty sure a server first ) - Youtube Video -

Edited May 2, 2013 by DarthPanopticus

[ML_DoubleTap]

Army of Light completed SV 16 man SM last night.

[CarneyBravo]

<Silent Council>

silentcouncil.com

Eternity Vault: 5/5 SM, HM, NM 8man & SM, HM 16man

Karagga's Palace: 5/5 SM, HM, NM 8man & SM, HM 16man

Explosive Conflict: 4/4 SM, HM 8man, 4/4 SM 16man

Terror from Beyond: 5/5 SM, HM 8 man

EC NM 8 man 1/4

TFB 55: 5/5 SM, 2/5 HM 8 man

S&V: 7/7 SM

 

Golden Fury SM 8man

Dreadtooth (10 Stacks) 24 man

[KeyboardNinja]

After 2 and a half hours on Dread Master Styrak we are now Empire faction first for clearing both S&V HM and TfB HM! Yay! Fight was considerably harder then expected, with very tight enrage. Plus, the guide we were using failed to mention several key mechanics causing several wipes until we figured them out. Overall, a very exciting and challenging final fight, truly worthy of the legendary dread masters!

 

Congratulations!

 

Dulfy's guide on that fight is really terrible. She appears to have written it based on Hatred's PTS kill, which was done before the fight was adjusted and the number of adds was doubled. For the record, the two mechanics that she fails to mention are a) a second type of add in the first phase channeling "Charge" on the dragon, and b) the Obliterate ability done by the four silver adds after the square box-o-doom. There are videos which show how to handle these mechanics (the first one is obvious), but it takes a little digging.

[MrOscarMonster]

Dulfy's guide on that fight is really terrible. She appears to have written it based on Hatred's PTS kill, which was done before the fight was adjusted and the number of adds was doubled. For the record, the two mechanics that she fails to mention are a) a second type of add in the first phase channeling "Charge" on the dragon, and b) the Obliterate ability done by the four silver adds after the square box-o-doom.

 

Yeah, the obliterate thing really caught us off guard the first try. The adds during the kell dragon didn't cause us too much trouble, but the main mechanic we missed about 5 times until a healer finally noticed was the stacking debuff that increases damage taken by a percentage placed on the tank when fighting the revived kell dragon, forcing tank swaps to keep the debuff stacks down. The fight was a nice change that forced all the classes to be on top of their game, unlike some other fights that are more forgiving to missteps.

 

---------

 

On a another note, not to diminish the achievements of <Silent Council>, but I don't think this list records server firsts for story mode operations, as they don't present much challenge to complete. If they are recorded, I think more proof is required to certify it as a true server first.

[CarneyBravo]

<Silent Council>

 

3/4 TFB HM

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag64/Ebonhawkhoover/Screenshot_2013-05-02_19_56_47_936608_zpsa1961d78.jpg

[jasonthelamb]

<Silent Council>

 

3/4 TFB HM

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag64/Ebonhawkhoover/Screenshot_2013-05-02_19_56_47_936608_zpsa1961d78.jpg

 

Isn't that 4/5?

Bug

Council

Tron

Kephess

[DarthPanopticus]

Isn't that 4/5?

Bug

Council

Tron

Kephess

 

Yup, he meant to post 4/5 but that's what you get at the end of a long work day followed by raid....being bad at math

 

[haksilence]

The seventh tacticle regiment no longer exists. It was dissolved by the leadership after migrating to anger management.

As well <Anger Management> is also 4/5 16m HM TFB

We also have 2/7 16m HM SaV (as of last night)

[Bombbuster]

<Silent Council>

silentcouncil.com

Eternity Vault: 5/5 SM, HM, NM 8man & SM, HM 16man

Karagga's Palace: 5/5 SM, HM, NM 8man & SM, HM 16man

Explosive Conflict: 4/4 SM, HM 8man, 4/4 SM 16man

Terror from Beyond: 5/5 SM, HM 8 man

EC NM 8 man 1/4

TFB 55: 5/5 SM, 2/5 HM 8 man

S&V: 7/7 SM

 

Golden Fury SM 8man

Dreadtooth (10 Stacks) 24 man

Thanks, and updated.

 

I left off the Dreadtooth 10 stack kill. I'm not sure killing a level 50 boss with level 55 characters and gear counts as progression. But gratz nonetheless on being the only guild on the server who has killed that bad boy, pre or post 2.0.

 

Does anyone know if the bonus boss in TFB has been raised to level 55? If so, then killing him would certainly count towards progression.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Bombbuster

[Bombbuster]

The seventh tacticle regiment no longer exists. It was dissolved by the leadership after migrating to anger management.

As well <Anger Management> is also 4/5 16m HM TFB

We also have 2/7 16m HM SaV (as of last night)

Thanks for the info, and updated.

[KeyboardNinja]

Thanks for the info, and updated.

 

Is there a reason that Calamitous Intent is ranked above Anger Management and Aisthesis? I'm assuming it's because of the TfB HM kill, but there was some dispute about whether or not that actually counted as progression (iirc, you eventually decided that it wasn't). Under that standard, HM S&V is the only progression op, which means that Calamitous Intent should come after the guilds which cleared it before they did.

 

For similar reasons, if Aisthesis clears HM TfB before Anger Management, I wouldn't expect our entry to be moved above theirs.

Edited May 3, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[DarthPanopticus]

Thanks for adding us to the list!

 

I guess I understand not adding the dreadtooth kill to our list...however, I only added it because you specifically said...

 

Gratz! I'd add the kill to your guild on the progression list if you'd ever post your guild info over there

 

Out of curiosity, what changed between that post and your last one? Does that mean that guilds can't come and post them clearing EV,KP and even EC Nightmare anymore?

 

I'm really only asking for clarification, if there is a standard that I was unaware of, it should be across the boards. So is this now a thread to only post that you have cleared TFB & S&V in?

Edited May 3, 2013 by DarthPanopticus

[KeyboardNinja]

Out of curiosity, what changed between that post and your last one? Does that mean that guilds can't come and post them clearing EV,KP and even EC Nightmare anymore?

 

I would suggest that the level 50 content should be recorded, but not affect the linear ranking order. A good example of this is Anger Management and Aisthesis. AM cleared HM S&V about 24 hours before we did, but they haven't cleared Nightmare Kephess yet (and we have). Despite the 4/4 in NiM EC, AM still deserves to be listed above us.

 

The same thing goes for achievements like Dreadtooth and Golden Fury. I want to see them listed, because it's still an achievement and I think guilds should have a place to brag about things like that, but it's not really "progression" anymore.

[mastirkal]

Op 9 and TfB are in my opinion a lot harder than the bosses from S&V HM and are only going to be cleared by the higher tier guilds for a while. It also drops best in slot items. As I see it. It's just like the old HM TfB and EC nightmare. Both were considered progression pre 2.0

 

Honestly CI deserved the spot. They were the second [or third] guild to clear TfB 55 which is an accomplishment with lesser gear. If that isn't acceptable maybe we should segregate the two rankings? I mean the only hard progression guilds on imps right now are CI and PoS. Bane maybe. Nemesis and empire are either done with raiding or rather disorganized.

[KeyboardNinja]

Op 9 and TfB are in my opinion a lot harder than the bosses from S&V HM and are only going to be cleared by the higher tier guilds for a while. It also drops best in slot items. As I see it. It's just like the old HM TfB and EC nightmare. Both were considered progression pre 2.0

 

Not sure that I agree about the difficulty. We obviously haven't cleared TfB yet, but more due to the fact that we haven't cared enough to spend time pulling it (I think we've touched the boss twice since 2.0). Op 9 is hard, but vastly easier than the Cartel Warlords in terms of healing, and vastly easier than Styrak in terms of DPS. We one-shot Op 9 without breaking a sweat when we did it with our main progression group, but that same group struggled to beat the enrage timer on Styrak.

 

Honestly CI deserved the spot. They were the second [or third] guild to clear TfB 55 which is an accomplishment with lesser gear.

 

The problem is that this is effectively ranking a TfB HM clear *above* a HM S&V clear, which is a bit odd when the bosses are mechanically identical to the old instance and (in general) tuned far below the bosses in HM S&V. When we can kill Writhing Horror in Hard Mode before the second Male, and when our healers are DPSing during the Dread Guard, I really don't think it should be considered top-tier progression.

 

I don't think we should split the list, but this is the problem that arises whenever one sets up a linear ordering of this nature. Imagine the following situation: Aisthesis clears HM S&V and CI clears HM TfB on Tuesday, then Aisthesis clears HM TfB and CI clears HM S&V on Thursday. Which is ranked higher? What if Aisthesis were to clear HM TfB on *Friday*? Does that affect the ranking? How many days of disparity are required to have an effect?

 

This is basically the question that I'm raising. If we *want* to count HM TfB as progression, then fine, but we should be consistent about it. Bombbuster asserted previously in the thread that HM TfB is "barely progression", and doesn't fall under the same rules as S&V (e.g. doesn't require a "full guild group").

Edited May 3, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[MrOscarMonster]

Is there a reason that Calamitous Intent is ranked above Anger Management and Aisthesis? I'm assuming it's because of the TfB HM kill, but there was some dispute about whether or not that actually counted as progression (iirc, you eventually decided that it wasn't). Under that standard, HM S&V is the only progression op, which means that Calamitous Intent should come after the guilds which cleared it before they did.

 

For similar reasons, if Aisthesis clears HM TfB before Anger Management, I wouldn't expect our entry to be moved above theirs.

 

I'll go ahead and speak for the rest of <CI>. We personally believe that both HM TfB and S&V should be considered when ranking in terms of progression. Each op provides unique challenges and checks to the group members, and they drop the same tier of gear. For these reasons, we as a guild consider them essentially equal as raids on a whole. We don't believe that skipping over the most difficult boss in TfB to rush S&V is a valid path of progression, and believe that guilds skipping TfB HM should be penalized in the rankings for incompleteness.

 

Not to detract from <AM> and <Aisthesis>, but clearing TfB HM is well within these guild's abilities, especially given the gear they should have by now. We respect these guilds, but are somewhat perplexed as to why they haven't bothered to complete the instance yet.

 

Op 9 and TfB are in my opinion a lot harder than the bosses from S&V HM and are only going to be cleared by the higher tier guilds for a while. It also drops best in slot items. As I see it. It's just like the old HM TfB and EC nightmare. Both were considered progression pre 2.0

 

Honestly CI deserved the spot. They were the second [or third] guild to clear TfB 55 which is an accomplishment with lesser gear. If that isn't acceptable maybe we should segregate the two rankings? I mean the only hard progression guilds on imps right now are CI and PoS. Bane maybe. Nemesis and empire are either done with raiding or rather disorganized.

 

Mastirkal here sums up our opinions on TfB quite nicely.

 

As far as Imperial faction raid guilds go, we consider ourselves (<CI>) and <PoS> as the only *true* progression guilds. It is our understanding that <SC> is forming a new raid team constructed from some former <Empire> members, and that some raid team members from <United> recently joined <PoS>. We are very excited for more Empire side progression teams!

[mastirkal]

Why not count both and whoever posts first wins? I wouldn't say TfB is above SV, but it is side progression. If you do both, you've done more than a guild who hasn't. They are both challenging and both are meant for 55 content and drop top tier gear.

 

I believe they are both progression, because while the bosses are the same as 50, they are not the same difficulty that they once were. Op 9 in first phase is *********** hell now that the two big droids hit like trucks with nukes attached to their head and the smaller droids going after healers can wean them down in about 10 seconds. While the second phase is much easier thanks to his one hit kill not being so "one hit killish".

 

TfB thanks to his anomalies increased health makes fighting him a pain in the second phase along with tighter enrage, same boss just more difficult. Still what I would consider progression.

 

The way I see it is, CI is 12/12 while AM and Ais are 11/12. To be even more honest, the real progression won't even become legitimate until nightmare of both of these instances come up. By then, everyone who is going to truly progress will be on equal if not close to equal footing to clear instead of racing to 55 and clearing. I know my team has plenty of skill to clear the content, but some of our members are slow to get going on just getting 69 HM FP gear as it is. Still an accomplishment to do HM, but I'm treating these dungeons like when KP came out and people were clearing it and EV at the same time to get that omg hax rakata pieces.

Edited May 3, 2013 by mastirkal

[KeyboardNinja]

I'll go ahead and speak for the rest of <CI>. We personally believe that both HM TfB and S&V should be considered when ranking in terms of progression. Each op provides unique challenges and checks to the group members, and they drop the same tier of gear. For these reasons, we as a guild consider them essentially equal as raids on a whole. We don't believe that skipping over the most difficult boss in TfB to rush S&V is a valid path of progression, and believe that guilds skipping TfB HM should be penalized in the rankings for incompleteness.

 

Not to detract from <AM> and <Aisthesis>, but clearing TfB HM is well within these guild's abilities, especially given the gear they should have by now. We respect these guilds, but are somewhat perplexed as to why they haven't bothered to complete the instance yet.

 

Time. Our main progression group includes three people with significant RL time crunches, and thus we only progression raid about 4-5 hours a week. Our main healer wasn't even with us when we cleared HM S&V for precisely that reason, and our main *group* wasn't even present when we got the server first HM Dash'roode kill. Our only attempts on any bosses in TfB have come as "we finished this other thing, let's take an hour and push HM TfB as much as we can".

 

We're going to clear it later this week, but we had to make a choice between clearing HM S&V first and clearing HM TfB. We chose S&V.

 

Why not count both and whoever posts first wins? I wouldn't say TfB is above SV, but it is side progression. If you do both, you've done more than a guild who hasn't. They are both challenging and both are meant for 55 content and drop top tier gear.

 

So basically you're saying that both instances are ranked equally in terms of difficulty and time involved. I disagree with that for all of the reasons I listed. No aspersions meant against guilds that struggled with the first few bosses in TfB HM, but honestly they are *vastly* less tightly tuned than the bosses in HM S&V. This is amply supported by the statistics (according to torparse): 32% of pulls on HM TfB are successful, while only 13% of pulls on HM Styrak are successful. The statistics get even more amusing as you look at other bosses.

 

Both statistically, mathematically and experientially, HM TfB is an easier instance. I view it more like EV and KP back in the day: not as a peer to S&V, but in the same gear tier.

 

TfB thanks to his anomalies increased health makes fighting him a pain in the second phase along with tighter enrage, same boss just more difficult. Still what I would consider progression.

 

I don't question that TfB and Op 9 are more difficult than they were pre-2.0. I don't think either of them are up to the difficulty level of the S&V bosses though.

 

The way I see it is, CI is 12/12 while AM and Ais are 11/12. To be even more honest, the real progression won't even become legitimate until nightmare of both of these instances come up. By then, everyone who is going to truly progress will be on equal if not close to equal footing to clear instead of racing to 55 and clearing. I know my team has plenty of skill to clear the content, but some of our members are slow to get going on just getting 69 HM FP gear as it is. Still an accomplishment to do HM, but I'm treating these dungeons like when KP came out and people were clearing it and EV at the same time to get that omg hax rakata pieces.

 

It's actually fairly similar to that, yes, and I think we can all agree that KP was a harder instance than EV. Back in the day, if a guild was 4/5 in KP NiM (pre-nerf Fabricator!), I would have given them a lot more credit than a guild that was 4/5 in EV NiM (infernal council ftw). The same is true now.

 

If we want to lump TfB and S&V together, so be it (I still don't agree), but let's be consistent about it. Bombbuster has already exempted HM TfB from the category of "progression" (see a few pages back), and this has had a lasting effect on the progression ordering. Specifically, UWA would be ranked above Wrath, since Wrath's first TfB HM clear was not a full guild group, and UWA was the first guild to get both instances down.

Edited May 3, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[jasonthelamb]

Just saying that a group of Pugs (3 different guilds combined) Did HM TfB 55 early tuesday morning, only reason we stopped was because servers were going to restart in <30 minutes... TfB HM 55 isn't that hard, in terms of progression I would say there really isn't any - it's the exact same fight as at 50, just more HP.