LordExozone Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 My 2 cents from my PvP experiences for the past weeks: the stun on bubble break is absolutely retarded the way it is now. Fighting sorcerers/sages with this is super frustrating as I spend far, far more time CC'ed than fighting any other class, and the tiny amount of resolve it builds depletes so fast it could just as well not build any resolve. It's not so bad versus below average sorcs who do not really time their CC all that well, but fight a good one that knows how to manage his stuns so you don't end up with full resolve, and the stun on bubble break becomes just incredibly effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I'm actually kind of shocked that they went with a stun instead of a root for the change to the bubble. As a Sorc, the absolute worst case scenario is facing a full Resolve melee class, the bubble before was simply giving free Resolve to enemies (since it hits incidental players who are close by, as well as players who break a bubble you placed on someone else and broke on damage). The breaking on damage was changed making it less fun for those fighting near a Sorc (not that I really have any pity for them, as a Sorc) and the Resolve will be fixed eventually to match the stun duration meaning everyone is going to be spending a lot more time with full resolve than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyzac Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Someone find me a statement from BW stating that the mez is now a stun. If you read the patch notes, it is still a mez or blind as they call it, it just doesn't break on damage anymore. "Backlash: The blindness effect caused by this skill no longer breaks on damage. The visual explosion effect now plays on the correct target." Straight from the patch notes. If BW comes out and changes their stance and says it is a stun, then it deserves the proper resolve amount of double what it is currently. As it stands now though, that isn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcol Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Someone find me a statement from BW stating that the mez is now a stun. If you read the patch notes, it is still a mez or blind as they call it, it just doesn't break on damage anymore. "Backlash: The blindness effect caused by this skill no longer breaks on damage. The visual explosion effect now plays on the correct target." Straight from the patch notes. If BW comes out and changes their stance and says it is a stun, then it deserves the proper resolve amount of double what it is currently. As it stands now though, that isn't the case. And since it doesn't break on damage ....IT IS NOW A STUN.......read your own statemant and know it's truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyzac Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 And since it doesn't break on damage ....IT IS NOW A STUN.......read your own statemant and know it's truth. Here it is from the sage changes as well... "Kinetic Collapse: The Incapacitation effect caused by this skill no longer breaks on damage." It is not a stun. Get over yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcol Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Here it is from the sage changes as well... "Kinetic Collapse: The Incapacitation effect caused by this skill no longer breaks on damage." It is not a stun. Get over yourself. If all mezz's break on damage.....a mezz that doesn't is no longer a mezz...it is a stun....whether BW acknowledges it or not (which we all know from almost a year's worth of playing, they will not acknowledge an error on their part) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Here it is from the sage changes as well... "Kinetic Collapse: The Incapacitation effect caused by this skill no longer breaks on damage." It is not a stun. Get over yourself. Incapacitates that break on damage are called Mezzes and add 100 Resolve per second of duration. Incapacitiates that do not break on damage are called Stuns and add 200 Resolve per second of duration. Bubble break Incapacitate is currently the only RE in game that violates the rule, strongly suggesting it is an oversight/bug that will be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBror Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Sorcerer bubble breaks. 3 seconds of stun. Stun wears off. You now have 14 seconds to destroy the sorcerer. 14 seconds later, when 3 people are ripping into him still (if you and your teammates are THAT bad), simply don't be standing directly on top of them. This is called learning to play. You are welcome. Yup... Dont be mad because you have been facerolling squishy sorcs for ever, and now it aint so easy. To run this build we lost 6% to heals and the purple circle. We do almost 0 DPS. This is a stun spec. Plain and simple. To run it, we are handicapped in everything else. Additionally this is more of a playstyle then an easy button. If your not evasive, and knowledgeable about your class and rotations, forget it. The cricle is your best friend. One nerf I could live with: Making Backlash a Mezz, that breaks on damage. Aside from that its perfect the way it is. Besides you really think they are going to fix a system that was just tweaked and they said wasnt broken. Not to mention that socs have been nerfed for so long, that we jsut go a bump on our force speed and a new talent. You are all just amazed because your used to this class being nerfed. not that its not,, its QQ. QQ.QQ. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyzac Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 If all mezz's break on damage.....a mezz that doesn't is no longer a mezz...it is a stun....whether BW acknowledges it or not (which we all know from almost a year's worth of playing, they will not acknowledge an error on their part) It isn't a mez according to the patch notes. I linked both parts did you not read them? It is a blind or incapacitate effect that no longer breaks on damage. I just call it a mez out of habit so sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyzac Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Incapacitates that break on damage are called Mezzes and add 100 Resolve per second of duration. Incapacitiates that do not break on damage are called Stuns and add 200 Resolve per second of duration. Bubble break Incapacitate is currently the only RE in game that violates the rule, strongly suggesting it is an oversight/bug that will be changed. Until they make some sort of official statement about it, it is working as intended according to the patch notes. But I agree with what you said basically except the ability is not technically considered a stun right now, and that is how they justify the resolve amount granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcol Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 It isn't a mez according to the patch notes. I linked both parts did you not read them? It is a blind or incapacitate effect that no longer breaks on damage. I just call it a mez out of habit so sorry for the confusion. Wasn't trying to be *itchy, just clairfying what has been stated. And not siding with anyone as I play 4 AC's at 50 and one is a sage with bubble blind, as it is the only way to spec in the current meta game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyzac Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Wasn't trying to be *itchy, just clairfying what has been stated. And not siding with anyone as I play 4 AC's at 50 and one is a sage with bubble blind, as it is the only way to spec in the current meta game. If they just clarified things for us we could end this thread. A novel idea I know, but I haven't seen a dev response in months on these pvp forums except for the recent one in the jugg-smash thread. BW could have just been lazy and not wanted to change the coding to increase the resolve gained. Or they truly don't want the bubble blinds filling resolve that fast, and that is why they specifically avoid calling it anything but a stun. A grey area if you will. Until BW comes out and explains this to us, I stand behind everything I say. edit: Remember people avoided spec'ing into Backlash prior to 1.4 in team environments. No one was spec'ing it. Ranked teams didn't want that talent filling people's resolve randomly before 1.4. Now, everyone takes it...yet it still gives the same amount of resolve prior to 1.4 when everyone screamed at you to put those 2 pts somewhere else. Just maybe they wanted to give us a reason to spend those pts. Who knows. Edited October 19, 2012 by Hairyzac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustxJerry Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I love this skill and the whining in this thread makes me smile. :-) Change it to a mez if you want but this is the best counter to all the smashers out there. I will give up my stun bubble if maras and jugs give up smash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBror Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I love this skill and the whining in this thread makes me smile. :-) Change it to a mez if you want but this is the best counter to all the smashers out there. I will give up my stun bubble if maras and jugs give up smash. +1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I love this skill and the whining in this thread makes me smile. :-) Change it to a mez if you want but this is the best counter to all the smashers out there. I will give up my stun bubble if maras and jugs give up smash. Yeah hands down this is the most annoying thing for me in a warzone. Do I think it needs to be changed, jurys out on that but when I duel my healer buddy he just can't stop laughing at me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulman Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 They shouldn't have changed it so it doesn't break on damage. Maybe a happy medium would be so it breaks after say 2k or something. Increasing the resolve would ruin the ability. That being said, I agree that it is a powerful ability, however, there are some things that I don't think people take into account. A) I think most players have not bothered trying to work around the ability. The fact is every class in the game has a ranged attack and the ability can be avoided be breaking the bubble from range. This affects some classes harder than others like Marauders and Juggs for instance. Are they in a really bad spot right now? It doesn't seem so to me. B) There are counters. Actually, Vengance Jugg with CC immunity is a great counter to a bubble spec sorc. The other day I noticed I got hit by smash for over 6600 while I was wearing full war hero. So there are counters out there but people forgo them becuase they have even more powerful specs and in general people like to look at the big pretty numbers rather than what gets the job done. C) People place far too much emphasis on numbers as a measure of skill and performance then cry when they get beat. This leads to my next point, in that the sage/sorc has to sacrifice something to get the ability. It is actually pretty high in the lighting tree, so they either have to go hybrid dps, hybrid heals or full lighting. The player will lose something either in dps or heals unless they play full lighting, which isn't great for WZ pvp due to lack of mobility. D) My last point is that the class doesn't stack well due to the debuff. It isn't like Rage spec warriors or VG/PT dps where you can stack several and completely decimate. So to sum up: A) There are ways to work around it. B) There are counter classes and specs. C) The sorc/sage is likely losing out on dps or healing to get the ability. D) The class doesn't stack every well. I will agree that it is powerful but every class in the game has something that makes them powerful. Honestly in rated I see very few sorc/sages still and I only know of one that plays a bubble spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahebish Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I like your post and this to bothers me, but you must understand by now that BW dont give a flying **** about pvp and stuns. Welcome to StunWars beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ybini Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I didn't even know there was a stun on sorc bubble break, then I realized I'm ranged dps is why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ster-Ling Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 There are a couple of premades on my server running with 2 sorcs who keep everyone bubbled. You get near them, they cancel the buff, stunning you and any nearby teammates. Since it's a hard stun and it only adds half the normal amount of resolve, they're having a lot of success chain-stunning multiple people and focusing them down one at a time. It's an old-school stunlock gibfest, but far more effective than ever before because it's AoE and resolve isn't an issue. Resolve gain should be commensurate with a hard stun and canceling the buff shouldn't trigger it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Playing with and against bubble spec sorc/sages, and trying one for myself, I will chime in here. I do think the resolve gain is just flat to low. As far as canceling the bubble to get the effect I agree with Hairy, L2P, people have been doing that WAY before they made it a hard stun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ybini Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 There are a couple of premades on my server running with 2 sorcs who keep everyone bubbled. You get near them, they cancel the buff, stunning you and any nearby teammates. Since it's a hard stun and it only adds half the normal amount of resolve, they're having a lot of success chain-stunning multiple people and focusing them down one at a time. It's an old-school stunlock gibfest, but far more effective than ever before because it's AoE and resolve isn't an issue. Resolve gain should be commensurate with a hard stun and canceling the buff shouldn't trigger it. The real answer there is it shouldn't trigger on cancel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulman Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The real answer there is it shouldn't trigger on cancel. Or just don't all bunch up in a 5m circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ster-Ling Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Or just don't all bunch up in a 5m circle. Sure, the solution is clearly never be within 10m of another teammate. (5m is a radius AROUND the caster.) So putting aside the fact that it's an AoE, let's look at the bubblle stun compared to the other hard stuns (i.e. Electrocute, Dirty Kick, Cryo Grenade and mirrored abilities). bubble stun 3 sec: 300 resolve, 17sec CD other hard stuns: 4 sec, 800 resolve, 60sec CD It's out of whack. Even against just one target. (But yeah, it's AoE. And can be granted to everybody.) Enjoy clinging to this crutch while you can. Edited October 19, 2012 by Ster-Ling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulman Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Sure, the solution is clearly never be within 10m of another teammate. (5m is a radius AROUND the caster.) So putting aside the fact that it's an AoE, let's look at the bubblle stun compared to the other hard stuns (i.e. Electrocute, Dirty Kick, Cryo Grenade and mirrored abilities). bubble stun 3 sec: 300 resolve, 17sec CD other hard stuns: 4 sec, 800 resolve, 60sec CD It's out of whack. Even against just one target. (But yeah, it's AoE. And can be granted to everybody.) Enjoy clinging to this crutch while you can. There's a difference between never being next to a teammate and letting your enemy walk up and stun up. I can see someone taking an extra stun here and there but if your entire team is getting stunlocked by people walking up and stunning you, you are doing something wrong. Not to mention the fact that the if they are clicking off the bubble they effectively lost the extra 3-4 health from it. Does that mean those other stuns should cost 1k health per second of stun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ster-Ling Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) I can see someone taking an extra stun here and there but if your entire team is getting stunlocked by people walking up and stunning you, you are doing something wrong. You don't have to stunlock entire teams by walking up to them. Just being able to stunlock-kill a couple people here and there is enough in objective-based play. And this stun is completely out of proportion to other hard controls. Not to mention the fact that the if they are clicking off the bubble they effectively lost the extra 3-4 health from it. Does that mean those other stuns should cost 1k health per second of stun? The fact that the bubble can alternatively be used to absorb 3-4k damage and THEN stun someone doesn't make other stuns better by comparison. Nice try though. Honestly I don't think you people comprehend how much hard control this ability is providing to teams who know how to abuse it. Edited October 20, 2012 by Ster-Ling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts