SWTOR May Still Be Headed Down a Dark Path (LONG POST)

[Spatology]

Not informative, contained the same old garbage ive seen people spewing here.

 

Waste of time to read, move along.

[Urael]

Interesting posts, my friend!

 

I think one thing the devs should NOT do is add new planets. Instead, they should greatly add "[Heroic]" planet expansions for all planets that they've made. I remember seeing a post from the SWTOR Facebook page saying: "Which is your favorite planet to explore?" I was so confused, because thinking about it I had no favorite planet to explore at all. Even planets like Belsavis felt so enclosed and I liked the environment and all, but it didn't feel immersible.

 

They're planning on adding Makeb, but the exploration of that planet may end somewhere like all the other ones. I have not been impressed with ANY of the planets whatsoever—especially Coruscant, since I happen to be from NYC.

 

I too would like to see the existing planets "fleshed out" so to speak. I agree as far as the "city" planets are concerned, they aren't much bigger than a NYC "city block".

 

Not informative, contained the same old garbage ive seen people spewing here.

 

Waste of time to read, move along.

 

I see you deftly retorted all that you saw wrong with the thread. Good Job! Thanks for the bump.

[SpazCats]

I want SWTOR to succeed also, I too am both a "fanboi" and a "hater" at this point in time. The former because well it IS Star Wars, the latter mainly because of Patch 1.4 right now. TBH, Patch 1.4 motivated me to play my Hunter and my Rogue(s) last night instead of playing SWTOR. It was sorta surreal, it felt familiar and yet not so much. What I was struck by most when going to the new continent was how vast it seemed in just one area than most of the "planets" in this game. And that was just one area on one continent. So much to explore. Somehow it "felt" more Massive than SWTOR of late. I have to admit that a spark has been lit. Hmmm, all due to patch 1.4. Heh, Patch 1.4 may be the reason for me leaving SWTOR and going back to WoW full time.

 

My sub here expires tomorrow

 

I doubt I can bring myself to resub before F2P. I'm going back to WoW for a bit too and check out the expansion.

 

I will certainly come back here by F2P. Here's hoping Bioware can turn things around and meet some of the potential of this game with F2P.

 

Happy hunting in what ever MMOs you choose, Urael and MOPSFounder!

Edited October 3, 2012 by SpazCats

[Thornsbane]

Freaky thread. Freaky OP. Who gets sooo cut up about liking or not liking a video game?

 

In my opinion, if your going to be this tense and obsessing about details of an MMO then you will never be happy with one.

 

Any why go onto its forums and try to tell everyone it sucks?

 

Freaky behaviour.

[Andryah]

Any why go onto its forums and try to tell everyone it sucks?

 

Tim pretty much just explained the whys of this behavior I think.

[MOPSFounder]

Tim pretty much just explained the whys of this behavior I think.

He's just antagonizing me for my so-called "doom".

 

If he doesn't like it, well deal with it.

 

Edited October 4, 2012 by MOPSFounder

[MOPSFounder]

Any why go onto its forums and try to tell everyone it sucks?

I never said the game sucks. Re-read the OP, and disregard Tim's "research".

[Urael]

I play this game because I enjoy it. I'm not looking for the next greatest thing ever, I'm not going to run off and buy another MMO because many other people did. Don't let the OP's agenda skew your view of the game.

 

Before Patch 1.4 I might have agreed with you. After Patch 1.4 I most definately do not. I can't enjoy the game any more because it is so borked for me with the egregious 1.4 "quality of life improvements" patch which for me did any thing but improve my game play experience. Stuttering and all the bugs listed in Recsa's thread ( still not acknowledge by EAWare) have pretty much made me go back to WoW.

[MOPSFounder]

Before Patch 1.4 I might have agreed with you. After Patch 1.4 I most definately do not. I can't enjoy the game any more because it is so borked for me with the egregious 1.4 "quality of life improvements" patch which for me did any thing but improve my game play experience. Stuttering and all the bugs listed in Recsa's thread ( still not acknowledge by EAWare) have pretty much made me go back to WoW.

I hope you and SpazCats come back soon(™ )!

[Urael]

I hope you and SpazCats come back soon(™ )!

 

I will be here on the forums and watching. Beside TBH, I will hit 90 on my 6 level 85s pretty soon. My little brother hit 90 like 3 days after Panda came out (his wife was pretty understanding letting him play so much). Once you get past all the changes it's still WoW and leveling is still pretty easy. What IS fun is getting to "explore" again and actually have something to see. I like finding all the "eater eggs" Bliz puts in their games. My subtlety rogues blades just needed some sharpening an now he is a rolling death machine again!. Patch 1.4 made me love playing WoW again.

 

Edited October 4, 2012 by Urael

[Tim-ONeil]

Disclaimer: This post is "player education" to use the terms I see used as justification in here. I won't specifically mention anyone by name but I'm going to talk in generalities about the theme of the thread and why people feel the need to continue to push the anti-TOR agenda.

 

 

 

Why do we love failure?

 

The reason some in our community absolutely relish the perceived failure of others (and Bioware specifically) is a term called schadenfreude. This is a german word for "pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others". It is defined as the idea that when people around us have bad luck, we look better to ourselves. Researchers have found that people with low self-esteem are more likely to feel schadenfreude than are people who have high self-esteem.

 

This isn't limited to gaming, we see this crop up all over society. A classic example would be celebrity tabloids, every time something bad happens to someone famous we as a people tend to feel better about our own lives in comparison. Reading about the latest Lohan arrest reassures us that although some people are rich and famous we live "better" lives. It's a coping mechanism for a harsh world.

 

I believe strongly this is the motivation for many of the people that continually post about how "fail" something is over and over.

 

Another source of frustration comes from unrealistic expectations. Some players are frustrated because the game wasn't designed exactly as they envisioned and are unwilling to forgive Bioware for not allowing them to make design decisions on the game. People state that the game needed feature x yesterday, should never have lauched without feature y, and needs z more years before it's "ready". I don't believe there is anything that can appease this particular crowd, they are not vested gamers in any game long term because nothing will satisfy them there's always a "sure they did this but...". These players feel schadenfreude in a classic "I told you so" way.

 

Constructive Complaint vs Rage: The Difference

This is not to say there are not legitimate issues with this game or any game that certain players may find gamebreaking but it's how these issues are communicated here that can turn an small complaint into a burning crusade (pun intended) and prevent people from experiencing the game without some type of initial prejudice based on over the top hyperbole found in any SWTOR discussion.

 

Rage posts, doom and gloom post, I quit posts, etc without constructive feedback are just avenues for people to sound off and get their grievances off their chest. It's a normal rationalization we make to remind ourselves that individually we are important enough to have our voice heard when as an individual in a gaming community this large we are insignificant ultimately as a single voice. The people that get noticed in this environment are the ones that cry the loudest and in turn generate the most discussion though it tends to be about something negative.

 

As an example we had a new guild member that just joined the game starting this week. He has never played an MMO prior to SWTOR. He was initially 'apprehensive' about playing because he read the same complaints that SWTOR has 'no end game' even though he has no idea what this means or even if this is true. I'll get into total content below but when you experience people saying things like that, I.E. repeating what they read and considering it gospel without any idea of what it is or if it's true, then you begin to see why negativity fosters more negativity.

 

We did an experiment once on a forum to see how people react. Two thread were created with giberish posts. One was titled: 'I really enjoy this' the other was titled: 'I hate this'. The only point was to check the number of views of the post to see what people instinctively gravitate towards. Unsurprisingly the I hate post was the most popular by a 3 to 1 margin. Human nature at work.

 

Conversely, helpful posts include the issue, suggestions, and foster debate. They don't try to hold the developers hostage with an ultimatum based on subscribing or quitting if it's not addressed and aren't intended to incite people, E.G. This game sucks and should be shut down, there's only one reason someone posts that and it's schadenfreude.

 

 

SWTOR vs the Status Quo

 

Why then do these people focus hate on SWTOR specifically? I believe in many ways pre-release and through the early part of the game's life SWTOR represented a major threat to the MMO industry. It had a large budget, the enormously commercially successful Star Wars IP, and a much beloved gaming studio at the helm. If any game was going to make it this was the one.

 

People talk in broad terms about "WoW killers" and game changers that redefine success and become the new standard model. Depending on your own point of view if this game was wildly popular your favorite game by comparison might be in trouble. Once this realization occurs the game has already picked up it's first detractors that object to the game because of what it might represent to them long term.

 

Focusing on voiced over cutscenes as it's major story based innovation is something that already existing MMO's couldn't copy into their current game without an extreme upfront cost of VO and cutscene work or complete redesign. Quite frankly if this model caught on all other games out there would be behind with no chance to emulate this in their current offerings.

 

It's brilliant really since all of our electronic entertainment forms are voice acted. Movies, TV, Single Player and console games, etc. MMO's were lagging behind in this space due to the cost and complexity. The voice overs are a huge part of what they got right. Personally speaking now that I've experienced it text based quests won't be able to cut it. Text = click accept as fast as possible and move on. Voice = engaging and humanizes the experience.

 

 

 

How to Grow your Subscriber Base: The Threat of SWTOR

 

Ralp Kostar (if you don't know this man, do yourself a favor and read his work) wrote a thesis on MMO gaming and it implicitly states that the best way to find your own playerbase is to steal it from other games. It can be hard to bring completely new blood into the MMO market but the gamers that are playing other games will look to your game if you can give them a reason to make the switch.

 

If you are a fan of a game like Eve with a steady but not spectacular subscriber base this game's success could directly impact your enjoyment, actual game population, current MMO funding, and impact future development on that title.

 

Even the great WoW isn't immune to this. Their western subscriber numbers have been steadily declining over the past 24 months. While they still print the GDP of many small third world countries monthly most of this is due to their extremely lucrative China operations- something that SWTOR has yet to capitalize on. WoW certainly saw an inital drop in western subscriptions when the game released. Everyone is competing for the same people.

 

Players with a vested interest in another game have even more reason to feel schadenfreude whenever someone bashes this one.

 

 

 

Where Do We Go From Here: The Future

 

MMO's do not blossom overnight but are grown over time. Content releases, major expansions, and weekly bug fixes are all part of the effort to expand the game from its launch to its current status. Now that we've established why people are so interested in the game "failing" we can examine what still can be accomplished by this dev team.

 

In the past 9 months we've seen 4 major game updates including 2 new operations (4 if you count the different mechanics of story mode and hard mode for each), 2 new hard mode flashpoints, legacy, groupfinder, 2 world events, 1 new warzone, upgraded server tech, and a large number of bug fixes.

 

In the content pipeline we have a warzone on the way, new planet content, new space missions, and Free-to play all being prepared for release. There's a solid foundation here to build from and over the next 6 months to 1 year the game will continue to improve.

 

Yes, there have been challenges. 1.4 introduced a large number of graphical issues and other bugs that need to be sorted but those are short term complaints that will be addressed. Bioware will need to continue to deliver the content and fix these issues to repair the game image. That part that is out of our control but in the effort to profit on the game our priorities are aligned here. They can't ignore the major problems 1.4 presented if they expect to grow the game.

 

Going forward players have two options really, we can harp on the "failure" of the game and repeat the same complaints which they are well aware of or we can step back, acknowledge that the game does have more positives than negatives, is still in it's infancy, and has the potential to grow. Additionally you might even notice the game plays better than it is given credit for here; you know when you are actually playing the game, not the forum mini game.

 

 

 

Conclusion: Are we headed down a dark path?

 

This one is subjective mostly. Gamers that have a schadenfreude obsession with TOR certainly hope so. In reality since we all have different ideas of what we want there's no concrete answer. One patch may cause you to rage, another to be satisfied, it's nature of the a constantly evolving MMO. Players that left before March are coming back to find a different game today. Players that leave now will find a different game when they inevitably return. Change is constant.

 

Bioware has laid out the content for the next 3-4 months so we can look at that and decide if we are satisfied. The ball is in their court for bug fixing and content release but there is a solid core here from which to grow.

 

Ultimately this question can't be answered today. The future is bright and will continue to be if Bioware continues to evolve the game because the foundation is in place even if the players are inpatient and want it now.

 

 

TL;DR: Read it if you want to actually debate.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Tim-ONeil

[MOPSFounder]

Disclaimer: This post is "player education" to use the terms I see used as justification in here. I won't specifically mention anyone by name but I'm going to talk in generalities about the theme of the thread and why people feel the need to continue to push the anti-TOR agenda.

Okay.

 

Why do we love failure?

 

The reason some in our community absolutely relish the perceived failure of others (and Bioware specifically) is a term called schadenfreude. This is a german word for "pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others". It is defined as the idea that when people around us have bad luck, we look better to ourselves. Researchers have found that people with low self-esteem are more likely to feel schadenfreude than are people who have high self-esteem.

 

This isn't limited to gaming, we see this crop up all over society. A classic example would be celebrity tabloids, every time something bad happens to someone famous we as a people tend to feel better about our own lives in comparison. Reading about the latest Lohan arrest reassures us that although some people are rich and famous we live "better" lives. It's a coping mechanism for a harsh world.

 

I believe strongly this is the motivation for many of the people that continually post about how "fail" something is over and over.

 

Another source of frustration comes from unrealistic expectations. Some players are frustrated because the game wasn't designed exactly as they envisioned and are unwilling to forgive Bioware for not allowing them to make design decisions on the game. People state that the game needed feature x yesterday, should never have lauched without feature y, and needs z more years before it's "ready". I don't believe there is anything that can appease this particular crowd, they are not vested gamers in any game long term because nothing will satisfy them there's always a "sure they did this but...". These players feel schadenfreude in a classic "I told you so" way.

Does this have anything to do with me? I definitely am not leeching off this "schadenfreude" because I'm not enjoying this game while it's failing.

 

Some people may have had unrealistic expectations, but lots of features peeps wanted weren't implemented and if they were, these features were implemented way too late. EAWare should have never focused too much on VA and Story. It certainly proved to be a double-edged sword to this game.

 

Constructive Complaint vs Rage: The Difference

This is not to say there are not legitimate issues with this game or any game that certain players may find gamebreaking but it's how these issues are communicated here that can turn an small complaint into a burning crusade (pun intended) and prevent people from experiencing the game without some type of initial prejudice based on over the top hyperbole found in any SWTOR discussion.

 

Rage posts, doom and gloom post, I quit posts, etc without constructive feedback are just avenues for people to sound off and get their grievances off their chest. It's a normal rationalization we make to remind ourselves that individually we are important enough to have our voice heard when as an individual in a gaming community this large we are insignificant ultimately as a single voice. The people that get noticed in this environment are the ones that cry the loudest and in turn generate the most discussion though it tends to be about something negative.

 

As an example we had a new guild member that just joined the game starting this week. He has never played an MMO prior to SWTOR. He was initially 'apprehensive' about playing because he read the same complaints that SWTOR has 'no end game' even though he has no idea what this means or even if this is true. I'll get into total content below but when you experience people saying things like that, I.E. repeating what they read and considering it gospel without any idea of what it is or if it's true, then you begin to see why negativity fosters more negativity.

 

We did an experiment once on a forum to see how people react. Two thread were created with giberish posts. One was titled: 'I really enjoy this' the other was titled: 'I hate this'. The only point was to check the number of views of the post to see what people instinctively gravitate towards. Unsurprisingly the I hate post was the most popular by a 3 to 1 margin. Human nature at work.

 

Conversely, helpful posts include the issue, suggestions, and foster debate. They don't try to hold the developers hostage with an ultimatum based on subscribing or quitting if it's not addressed and aren't intended to incite people, E.G. This game sucks and should be shut down, there's only one reason someone posts that and it's schadenfreude.

Certainly this topic has lots of constructive feedback if it's still up.

 

SWTOR vs the Status Quo

 

Why then do these people focus hate on SWTOR specifically? I believe in many ways pre-release and through the early part of the game's life SWTOR represented a major threat to the MMO industry. It had a large budget, the enormously commercially successful Star Wars IP, and a much beloved gaming studio at the helm. If any game was going to make it this was the one.

 

People talk in broad terms about "WoW killers" and game changers that redefine success and become the new standard model. Depending on your own point of view if this game was wildly popular your favorite game by comparison might be in trouble. Once this realization occurs the game has already picked up it's first detractors that object to the game because of what it might represent to them long term.

 

Focusing on voiced over cutscenes as it's major story based innovation is something that already existing MMO's couldn't copy into their current game without an extreme upfront cost of VO and cutscene work or complete redesign. Quite frankly if this model caught on all other games out there would be behind with no chance to emulate this in their current offerings.

 

It's brilliant really since all of our electronic entertainment forms are voice acted. Movies, TV, Single Player and console games, etc. MMO's were lagging behind in this space due to the cost and complexity. The voice overs are a huge part of what they got right. Personally speaking now that I've experienced it text based quests won't be able to cut it. Text = click accept as fast as possible and move on. Voice = engaging and humanizes the experience.

Skipping to the voice acting, many people who play this game just spacebar through the voice acting. It's enough going through the the voice acting once or twice, but several times it just gets boring and you know the grind is there. The only thing I don't spacebar is new cutscenes from content and Story missions.

 

The cutscenes and voice acting is supposed to add the illusion that you're contributing to the environment around you. It's also supposed to immerse you into the game greatly. Sadly, at the end of the cutscenes you're left with kill X amount of enemies while retrieving Y amount of nodes.

 

The voice acting is extremely revolutionary to MMOs but the PvE mission are not.

 

How to Grow your Subscriber Base: The Threat of SWTOR

 

Ralp Kostar (if you don't know this man, do yourself a favor and read his work) wrote a thesis on MMO gaming and it implicitly states that the best way to find your own playerbase is to steal it from other games. It can be hard to bring completely new blood into the MMO market but the gamers that are playing other games will look to your game if you can give them a reason to make the switch.

 

If you are a fan of a game like Eve with a steady but not spectacular subscriber base this game's success could directly impact your enjoyment, actual game population, current MMO funding, and impact future development on that title.

 

Even the great WoW isn't immune to this. Their western subscriber numbers have been steadily declining over the past 24 months. While they still print the GDP of many small third world countries monthly most of this is due to their extremely lucrative China operations- something that SWTOR has yet to capitalize on. WoW certainly saw an inital drop in western subscriptions when the game released. Everyone is competing for the same people.

 

Players with a vested interest in another game have even more reason to feel schadenfreude whenever someone bashes this one.

 

Where Do We Go From Here: The Future

 

MMO's do not blossom overnight but are grown over time. Content releases, major expansions, and weekly bug fixes are all part of the effort to expand the game from its launch to its current status. Now that we've established why people are so interested in the game "failing" we can examine what still can be accomplished by this dev team.

 

In the past 9 months we've seen 4 major game updates including 2 new operations (4 if you count the different mechanics of story mode and hard mode for each), 2 new hard mode flashpoints, legacy, groupfinder, 2 world events, 1 new warzone, upgraded server tech, and a large number of bug fixes.

 

In the content pipeline we have a warzone on the way, new planet content, new space missions, and Free-to play all being prepared for release. There's a solid foundation here to build from and over the next 6 months to 1 year the game will continue to improve.

 

Yes, there have been challenges. 1.4 introduced a large number of graphical issues and other bugs that need to be sorted but those are short term complaints that will be addressed. Bioware will need to continue to deliver the content and fix these issues to repair the game image. That part that is out of our control but in the effort to profit on the game our priorities are aligned here. They can't ignore the major problems 1.4 presented if they expect to grow the game.

 

Going forward players have two options really, we can harp on the "failure" of the game and repeat the same complaints which they are well aware of or we can step back, acknowledge that the game does have more positives than negatives, is still in it's infancy, and has the potential to grow. Additionally you might even notice the game plays better than it is given credit for here; you know when you are actually playing the game, not the forum mini game.

 

Conclusion: Are we headed down a dark path?

 

This one is subjective mostly. Gamers that have a schadenfreude obsession with TOR certainly hope so. In reality since we all have different ideas of what we want there's no concrete answer. One patch may cause you to rage, another to be satisfied, it's nature of the a constantly evolving MMO. Players that left before March are coming back to find a different game today. Players that leave now will find a different game when they inevitably return. Change is constant.

 

Bioware has laid out the content for the next 3-4 months so we can look at that and decide if we are satisfied. The ball is in their court for bug fixing and content release but there is a solid core here from which to grow.

 

Ultimately this question can't be answered today. The future is bright and will continue to be if Bioware continues to evolve the game because the foundation is in place even if the players are inpatient and want it now.

 

TL;DR: Read it if you want to actually debate.

I read everything you've said. I just really have not much to debate about with you since you think I'm just "trolling, but with an agenda" (from what you've said before), so when you want to be serious then don't make those type of comments.

Edited October 8, 2012 by MOPSFounder

[ViciousFett]

Some people worry far too much about something they only spend $15 a month on.....

[DorkTrooper]

It is defined as the idea that when people around us have bad luck, we look better to ourselves. Researchers have found that people with low self-esteem are more likely to feel schadenfreude than are people who have high self-esteem.

 

There is also a component of over-competativeness that feeds this point. Some people play "my game is better than your game" as a sort of PvP. They tend to be very hung up on group think/popular opinion.

 

That said, I'm not sure about SWTOR's path, or whether or not I'll stick with it for long once it goes F2P. Depends entirely on all the little details that we don't yet know.

[MOPSFounder]

Some people worry far too much about something they only spend $15 a month on.....

Not really.

[Saitada]

Disclaimer:

 

Focusing on voiced over cutscenes as it's major story based innovation is something that already existing MMO's couldn't copy into their current game without an extreme upfront cost of VO and cutscene work or complete redesign. Quite frankly if this model caught on all other games out there would be behind with no chance to emulate this in their current offerings.

 

It's brilliant really since all of our electronic entertainment forms are voice acted. Movies, TV, Single Player and console games, etc. MMO's were lagging behind in this space due to the cost and complexity. The voice overs are a huge part of what they got right. Personally speaking now that I've experienced it text based quests won't be able to cut it. Text = click accept as fast as possible and move on. Voice = engaging and humanizes the experience.

 

The only part of your post I choose to address as relevant to my particular point of view....

 

Yes doing the cut scene/voice overs was cool.. the first time I saw them, and the second time. the third time started getting pale and by the 4th time I was bored to tears with it and space-barred past it and have done exactly the same thing for all the cut scenes i've already seen half a dozen times.... barring class quests I haven't personally done yet.

 

It was cool the first few times but after that it really wasn't.

 

Other than that my personal view of SW:TOR is it's an average game. Nothing spectacular. Enjoyable for what it is. I had higher expectations when the game launched but I quickly reigned them in realizing the game WAS new, and to have the depth and content of an older game would take time.

 

Being an old gamer I don't usually listen to the doom-sayers but you have to admit, when a game goes from multiple millions of subscribers to a tad over 500k subs in just a few months there is a strong perception it's a lemon. BW/EA hasn't helped that perception much by operating as they have been but as with all new things, it takes time to hammer out the bumps in the road and to learn what works and doesn't.

 

Every MMO I have beta'd and launched has gone through this same process. Expectations of grandeur and then disappointment by the player base when they realize the pumped up hype the developers and gaming company put out, didn't match up to what was delivered. The fault lies on the shoulders of the dev/game company for that bit though, and on the shoulder of the players who really should know better by now that what they are promised and what is delivered is NEVER the same. SW:TOR has been no different in that aspect.

 

But back to the cut scenes. Nice the first cpl times you see them. After that. Boring.

 

~Saitada

[simplius]

yup VO money should have gone into real gameplay,,a big waste of game resources

[Toxxo]

Disclaimer: This post is "player education" to use the terms I see used as justification in here. I won't specifically mention anyone by name but I'm going to talk in generalities about the theme of the thread and why people feel the need to continue to push the anti-TOR agenda.

 

 

 

Why do we love failure?

 

The reason some in our community absolutely relish the perceived failure of others (and Bioware specifically) is a term called schadenfreude. This is a german word for "pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others". It is defined as the idea that when people around us have bad luck, we look better to ourselves. Researchers have found that people with low self-esteem are more likely to feel schadenfreude than are people who have high self-esteem.

 

This isn't limited to gaming, we see this crop up all over society. A classic example would be celebrity tabloids, every time something bad happens to someone famous we as a people tend to feel better about our own lives in comparison. Reading about the latest Lohan arrest reassures us that although some people are rich and famous we live "better" lives. It's a coping mechanism for a harsh world.

 

I believe strongly this is the motivation for many of the people that continually post about how "fail" something is over and over.

 

Another source of frustration comes from unrealistic expectations. Some players are frustrated because the game wasn't designed exactly as they envisioned and are unwilling to forgive Bioware for not allowing them to make design decisions on the game. People state that the game needed feature x yesterday, should never have lauched without feature y, and needs z more years before it's "ready". I don't believe there is anything that can appease this particular crowd, they are not vested gamers in any game long term because nothing will satisfy them there's always a "sure they did this but...". These players feel schadenfreude in a classic "I told you so" way.

 

Constructive Complaint vs Rage: The Difference

This is not to say there are not legitimate issues with this game or any game that certain players may find gamebreaking but it's how these issues are communicated here that can turn an small complaint into a burning crusade (pun intended) and prevent people from experiencing the game without some type of initial prejudice based on over the top hyperbole found in any SWTOR discussion.

 

Rage posts, doom and gloom post, I quit posts, etc without constructive feedback are just avenues for people to sound off and get their grievances off their chest. It's a normal rationalization we make to remind ourselves that individually we are important enough to have our voice heard when as an individual in a gaming community this large we are insignificant ultimately as a single voice. The people that get noticed in this environment are the ones that cry the loudest and in turn generate the most discussion though it tends to be about something negative.

 

As an example we had a new guild member that just joined the game starting this week. He has never played an MMO prior to SWTOR. He was initially 'apprehensive' about playing because he read the same complaints that SWTOR has 'no end game' even though he has no idea what this means or even if this is true. I'll get into total content below but when you experience people saying things like that, I.E. repeating what they read and considering it gospel without any idea of what it is or if it's true, then you begin to see why negativity fosters more negativity.

 

We did an experiment once on a forum to see how people react. Two thread were created with giberish posts. One was titled: 'I really enjoy this' the other was titled: 'I hate this'. The only point was to check the number of views of the post to see what people instinctively gravitate towards. Unsurprisingly the I hate post was the most popular by a 3 to 1 margin. Human nature at work.

 

Conversely, helpful posts include the issue, suggestions, and foster debate. They don't try to hold the developers hostage with an ultimatum based on subscribing or quitting if it's not addressed and aren't intended to incite people, E.G. This game sucks and should be shut down, there's only one reason someone posts that and it's schadenfreude.

 

 

SWTOR vs the Status Quo

 

Why then do these people focus hate on SWTOR specifically? I believe in many ways pre-release and through the early part of the game's life SWTOR represented a major threat to the MMO industry. It had a large budget, the enormously commercially successful Star Wars IP, and a much beloved gaming studio at the helm. If any game was going to make it this was the one.

 

People talk in broad terms about "WoW killers" and game changers that redefine success and become the new standard model. Depending on your own point of view if this game was wildly popular your favorite game by comparison might be in trouble. Once this realization occurs the game has already picked up it's first detractors that object to the game because of what it might represent to them long term.

 

Focusing on voiced over cutscenes as it's major story based innovation is something that already existing MMO's couldn't copy into their current game without an extreme upfront cost of VO and cutscene work or complete redesign. Quite frankly if this model caught on all other games out there would be behind with no chance to emulate this in their current offerings.

 

It's brilliant really since all of our electronic entertainment forms are voice acted. Movies, TV, Single Player and console games, etc. MMO's were lagging behind in this space due to the cost and complexity. The voice overs are a huge part of what they got right. Personally speaking now that I've experienced it text based quests won't be able to cut it. Text = click accept as fast as possible and move on. Voice = engaging and humanizes the experience.

 

 

 

How to Grow your Subscriber Base: The Threat of SWTOR

 

Ralp Kostar (if you don't know this man, do yourself a favor and read his work) wrote a thesis on MMO gaming and it implicitly states that the best way to find your own playerbase is to steal it from other games. It can be hard to bring completely new blood into the MMO market but the gamers that are playing other games will look to your game if you can give them a reason to make the switch.

 

If you are a fan of a game like Eve with a steady but not spectacular subscriber base this game's success could directly impact your enjoyment, actual game population, current MMO funding, and impact future development on that title.

 

Even the great WoW isn't immune to this. Their western subscriber numbers have been steadily declining over the past 24 months. While they still print the GDP of many small third world countries monthly most of this is due to their extremely lucrative China operations- something that SWTOR has yet to capitalize on. WoW certainly saw an inital drop in western subscriptions when the game released. Everyone is competing for the same people.

 

Players with a vested interest in another game have even more reason to feel schadenfreude whenever someone bashes this one.

 

 

 

Where Do We Go From Here: The Future

 

MMO's do not blossom overnight but are grown over time. Content releases, major expansions, and weekly bug fixes are all part of the effort to expand the game from its launch to its current status. Now that we've established why people are so interested in the game "failing" we can examine what still can be accomplished by this dev team.

 

In the past 9 months we've seen 4 major game updates including 2 new operations (4 if you count the different mechanics of story mode and hard mode for each), 2 new hard mode flashpoints, legacy, groupfinder, 2 world events, 1 new warzone, upgraded server tech, and a large number of bug fixes.

 

In the content pipeline we have a warzone on the way, new planet content, new space missions, and Free-to play all being prepared for release. There's a solid foundation here to build from and over the next 6 months to 1 year the game will continue to improve.

 

Yes, there have been challenges. 1.4 introduced a large number of graphical issues and other bugs that need to be sorted but those are short term complaints that will be addressed. Bioware will need to continue to deliver the content and fix these issues to repair the game image. That part that is out of our control but in the effort to profit on the game our priorities are aligned here. They can't ignore the major problems 1.4 presented if they expect to grow the game.

 

Going forward players have two options really, we can harp on the "failure" of the game and repeat the same complaints which they are well aware of or we can step back, acknowledge that the game does have more positives than negatives, is still in it's infancy, and has the potential to grow. Additionally you might even notice the game plays better than it is given credit for here; you know when you are actually playing the game, not the forum mini game.

 

 

 

Conclusion: Are we headed down a dark path?

 

This one is subjective mostly. Gamers that have a schadenfreude obsession with TOR certainly hope so. In reality since we all have different ideas of what we want there's no concrete answer. One patch may cause you to rage, another to be satisfied, it's nature of the a constantly evolving MMO. Players that left before March are coming back to find a different game today. Players that leave now will find a different game when they inevitably return. Change is constant.

 

Bioware has laid out the content for the next 3-4 months so we can look at that and decide if we are satisfied. The ball is in their court for bug fixing and content release but there is a solid core here from which to grow.

 

Ultimately this question can't be answered today. The future is bright and will continue to be if Bioware continues to evolve the game because the foundation is in place even if the players are inpatient and want it now.

 

 

TL;DR: Read it if you want to actually debate.

 

Excellent post.

[Eillack]

yup VO money should have gone into real gameplay,,a big waste of game resources

 

No.

 

VO actually made myself and many other hooked to TOR.

 

You joined even though you knew you would not like it as much. You post is invalid.

[Kalfear]

The one thing that can help speed this game up and have it march on stronger is having more people play it. Do you really think posts like these help? What is your end game here? Why are you posting this?

 

If a game (or any product) can not survive from hearing/reading someones honest opinion

 

Then that game/product will die

 

Frankly the OP makes alot of honest and truthful statements about TOR

 

Yes he uses the moronic TORtanic nonsense far to much but that doesnt change the facts and the appearence of the rest.

 

If a post like this hurts TOR, then TOR is not strong enough to survive!

 

You will not get long term happy customers by hiding the faults and lieing to them.

 

People come in with open eyes, they more likely to accept the faults and move past them

 

or ina perfect world you post all the problems and the developer works fast and ferious to FIX /CORRECT THEM!

[lklinga]

Might I add that those of you who'd respond by saying "re-roll another character", let me remind you that many of us did NOT signup for this game to do just that.

 

It seems like re-rolling was one of BioWare intentions, but I have to say many of the people who left this game didn't want to do that.

 

Then they were clearly playing a wrong game for them.

[lklinga]

The OP keeps on muttering the same old EA EA EA EA.

 

If I was the manager / owner and after such long development they would show me this I would fire every single Bioware employee that touched this game.

 

Overall I like the game but from technical programming craft perspective it is utter ****.

 

Bioware was running the development at least until launch not EA and they have spent way too much money for too little effect this game from what I have seen shoe had the budget of 10 millions TOPS

 

It is beyond me how ineffective the developers are these days.

[ScarletBlaze]

yup VO money should have gone into real gameplay,,a big waste of game resources

 

No. Most people I know will disagree on your opiion as they love the VO.

[Andryah]

yup VO money should have gone into real gameplay,,a big waste of game resources

 

Honestly, anyone that feels VO was a waste, why are you playing this game then? Why not go play a game you actually enjoy that is free of VO?

 

Honest and sincere questions.

 

I honestly don't get it. For many, VO is one of the things they like most about the game and sets the game apart from other MMOs. I get that it's not appreciated by everyone. Different MMOs for different needs/wants IMO.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Andryah

[Ephesia]

Honestly, anyone that feels VO was a waste, why are you playing this game then? Why not go play a game you actually enjoy that is free of VO?

 

Honest and sincere questions.

 

I honestly don't get it. For many, VO is one of the things they like most about the game and sets the game apart from other MMOs. I get that it's not appreciated by everyone. Different MMOs for different needs/wants IMO.

 

So they have to like it otherwise they should ****? What kind of a mindset you guys are in?

 

I too like the VO but there may be some who are uninterested in the story and are just here for futuristic game experience in Star Wars universe instead of fantasy setting mmo's.