SWTOR May Still Be Headed Down a Dark Path (LONG POST)

[Darth_Precursor]

The only thing I really have to say is, SWTOR released too early. Most of this should have been in the original game.

 

Just sayin.

[MOPSFounder]

OP: Average post, but TORTanic histrionics makes you sound like a troll, and achieves nothing. The part about subscription numbers is worthless. Neither you or anyone else knows with hard facts exactly what the numbers were, and mistatements on financial documents are something that EA Legal isn't going to let slide for a few PR points. No, I think the numbers were legit ... and that James Olsen and others started writing checks with their mouths that their *** couldn't cash.

 

But let's clear up the three real important points in the thread:

 

1) "All people do is whine and complain, why don't they quit" : you should probably bother to take a closer look at who is doing the so-called "whining and complaining". It's , amusingly enough, not the same people over time. What you are really starting to see now is people "whining and complaining" who, six months ago, were very supportive of the game.

 

All of the early "whiners" are gone, and most of the ones from March to July are also gone. So, no, you don't have a small population of trolls that pay good money to keep trolling a forum, no matter how desperately fanboys wish to believe this. You have an ongoing movement of people who are happy with the game to , as they max out characters and have nothing to do at end-game and other games start looking newer or more interesting, people who become upset that the issues important to them have been ignored.

 

2) Bioware's Miserable Communication model: Yes, all MMO's tend to fudge numbers about when updates will happen or release dates. They do not, however, state plainly and openly and multiple times that they will have large content updates on a regular schedule and then hit NONE of them.

 

Unlike most people, I don't mind the whole Soon thing. What bothers me immensely is the constant inclusion of "features" into one game update in posts on the forums or blogs, then it mysteriously gets moved back to another update, but they're still prattling on about what great features are coming. People end up not wanting to play the game as it is, but subscribing hoping it will improve soon, and when it doesn't, get extremely upset (for obvious reasons).

 

Bioware's handling of the server merges and the communication therein is simply inexcusable. There's not a single logical reason why they would do it this way and still not have paid transfers that has been put forward by either BW or their supporters, yet complaining about it is classed as "whining".

 

3) The irony of "personal perspective" : There is this increasingly bombastic tone to people who support the game and think that , since they enjoy it, everyone else should simply not say anything bad about the game. In this thread there was a person saying, in effect, that people shouldn't complain so people who are thinking about playing won't get turned off by the complaints.

 

The mind-boggling inanity of such a concept can't be overstated. If people NOW do not like the way things are going and if current players are pissed at PVP, bugs, lack of features, lack of endgame, and the rest, what makes you think new players are not also going to see this? Furthermore, it's actually self-defeating.

 

You don't want WoW-kiddies, hard-core PVP types, extreme crafters, or anyone who wants sandbox content to play the game. You want your ultra-casual, low expectation first time MMO player or hard core SW fanatic to play it. Normal MMO consumers are going to pan this game as "just average". The only growth , given that BW keeps ignoring many of the issues with the game in favor of adding (of all the things on heaven and earth) facial expressions , is going to be from the people who don't bother to read forums much in the first place.

 

The OP can be bashed for putting this together only if you reject the premise that Bioware shouldn't be held to account for saying one thing and doing another. If you are basing that on the fact that you like the game, rather than what has actually transpired, then you are not even engaging in realistic discussion of the facts as they stand. Dismissal of ALL of someone's points by pointing out he engaged in histrionics in ONE of said points is arguing the affirmative conclusion from the negative premise.

 

"The game must be good since we like the game and we don't like negativity and you're being negative and saying it sucks so u r RONG go bck 2 WOW lulz" is not commentary, it's not even thought, it's just knee-jerk reactivity to what you don't want to hear.

I'll say the term "TORtanic" has kinda lost his shine and it isn't used as much, but are you really going that route saying I sound like a troll saying it? This game is sinking, from everything I've conjured up in this post.

 

The numbers may have been legit but this game's player-base keeps bleeding out and will keep hemorrhaging if something isn't done.

 

For your first point—a lot of the so-called "whiners", "QQ'ers" and "haters" here definitely love this game, want to love it more than they do or just merely like it, but they're here "whining" because we need to be hard on the EAWare devs and moderators (who seem to also be representatives to the devs). We aren't going to get anywhere saying, "Oh, F2P will definitely save the game because it worked so well for <insert game here>. Many people left after this patch but after this patch more people will definitely come back!"

 

Sorry, but a lot of EAWare's White Knights need to realize that their game isn't doing so well. Us "haters" respect they love this game and enjoy it, but we're here not enjoying it because the player-base has shown NO signs WHATSOEVER to improve and EAWare keeps making poor business and management decisions. The White Knights of EAWare will keep lashing, but us "haters" will be happy to debate and show our stance on the matter of the state of the game.

 

For you second point—I think EAWare was so arrogant to say that content will roll out much faster than any other MMO developing company could ever do. This made a lot of this game's subscribers think this game would be some "MMO Jesus" or something and to see content rolling out every 30–60 days would make this game re-playable for such a long time.

 

It's sad to see EAWare's James Ohlen just so wrong on so many levels since our last major, content-heavy patch was in mid-April. They should have been ahead of the curve by setting up some document for its subscribers to see on plans of what they had and when the content would be available for testing and then released.

 

I have to say overall, you brought up some great points but this post is nothing but average. That's the only thing I disagree on. Not only because it's my thread, but this shows SWTOR's so-called "development". It isn't getting better, but it's shown getting worse and worse.

 

Who knows what'll happen when F2P hits! So many of EAWare's White Knights bring up other games being successful with F2P but that doesn't mean this game will be. Those games that went F2P ended up sticking with their niche community and it seems like these F2P MMOs won't ever be able to contend with WoW. Sure they've been successful (I guess), but they won't ever reach a "WoW-esque status".

 

If this game ends up sticking to the niche I described in the OP, I might end up leaving because I want to see some great (O)PvP in this game and focus and progress in that. Operations and Story are a second.

[MOPSFounder]

The only thing I really have to say is, SWTOR released too early. Most of this should have been in the original game.

 

Just sayin.

Too bad EA wanted to rake in the dough before it was too late.

[MOPSFounder]

SWTOR like all MMOs are for-profit endeavors. Sometimes you expect too much from developers. You want them to care about the players, but then you come here on the forums and do nothing but gripe and complain.

 

I have been playing MMOs for too many years to care about DOOOM posts anymore.

 

You like the game, be happy to pay to play it. The more money the game makes the more attention it will receive from developers. It's really as simple as that. These types of threads don't help the devs do their jobs better, they just destroy the playerbase.

I would have to say this thread helps the player-base (specfically EAWare's White Knights) show the timeline of development post-release.

 

I wouldn't say "doom" post, but a post that evaluates how SWTOR may still hemorrhage players if the devs don't improve with development, business and management decisions on the game.

[Kubernetic]

I certainly don't feel like they've ignored or abandoned me.

 

I still have one awesome game to play.

 

Your mileage may vary. Good luck!

[simplius]

I'm sorry but I had a hard time getting past the first paragraph. Inflated numbers? Based on what information? What do you have that proves their numbers were lower than what they said they were? Yes I finished reading and while some points are valid you simply throw out conjecture as fact and then refer back to your own unproven statements as if they were already confirmed facts. Show me a link proving they lied about their numbers.

 

Maybe if you said TORtanic a few more times like you're the first person to ever say maybe it might drive home your point another six feet into the ground.

 

I remember legacy being a flop? Well according to you every single thing they have done so far has been tainted and/or worthless so you think maybe you are seeing things with dung colored glasses?

 

sooo,,the game is doing fine then?

[killmaimburn]

Doomsayers were saying this game was failing 2nd week after this game was released. I guess they were right. At least I havn't seen a frantic post from an emotional fanboy crying about how they care about this game and community and want to see it get better. Hopefully most of the window lickers have gone and what we have left are people who enjoy this game because of what it is. It's online KOTOR. It's not the best MMORPG, but at least it's not stupid panda bears.

 

The bug report/fix turnaround is still pretty bad. Hopefully with the server merges and realizing you can't sustain empty servers they can stabilize the subs. If they stabilize they can grow them, which would be fun down the road.

 

One thing that has to be fixed to keep a serious group around is the macros/addons thing. That has to be changed. I don't really care for bells and whistles, but those videos you see on youtube about other games where a group is taking on a super challenging boss. Yea, they're using utilities to help them keep track of what's going on.

 

Part of the problem is the feeling that EA has too much 'control' over the game. This is evident by the fact that we discuss EA at all. EA does not have any experience that I know of with MMO's. They have the Modern "Warfare fanboys but that's about it. So basically all the crap we were crying about back in March, nothing has changed and this game is still going to flop. BUT WHO CARES. It's still fun, and it's not pandas.

[MOPSFounder]

sooo,,the game is doing fine then?

Far from it.

[Dokar]

Doomsayers were saying this game was failing 2nd week after this game was released. I guess they were right. At least I havn't seen a frantic post from an emotional fanboy crying about how they care about this game and community and want to see it get better. Hopefully most of the window lickers have gone and what we have left are people who enjoy this game because of what it is. It's online KOTOR. It's not the best MMORPG, but at least it's not stupid panda bears.

 

The bug report/fix turnaround is still pretty bad. Hopefully with the server merges and realizing you can't sustain empty servers they can stabilize the subs. If they stabilize they can grow them, which would be fun down the road.

 

One thing that has to be fixed to keep a serious group around is the macros/addons thing. That has to be changed. I don't really care for bells and whistles, but those videos you see on youtube about other games where a group is taking on a super challenging boss. Yea, they're using utilities to help them keep track of what's going on.

 

Part of the problem is the feeling that EA has too much 'control' over the game. This is evident by the fact that we discuss EA at all. EA does not have any experience that I know of with MMO's. They have the Modern "Warfare fanboys but that's about it. So basically all the crap we were crying about back in March, nothing has changed and this game is still going to flop. BUT WHO CARES. It's still fun, and it's not pandas.

 

Ultima Online

Earth and Beyond

Dark Age of Camelot

Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning

The Sims Online

 

All owned by EA.

[MOPSFounder]

Ultima Online

Earth and Beyond

Dark Age of Camelot

Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning

The Sims Online

 

All owned by EA.

Games that EA has crushed and destroyed.

Edited September 28, 2012 by MOPSFounder

[NightBlizzard]

Pretty soon MMORPG's will need a new word for "soon" due to it's closer association with a very long time.

 

I found it humorous that people here tag the word 'Soon' with SWTOR; when WoW basically invented the word (although the team there tends to add more fluff to what they say - but in the end its all the same. It will be fixed/be out ... soon)

[LogicalPremise]

I'll say the term "TORtanic" has kinda lost his shine and it isn't used as much, but are you really going that route saying I sound like a troll saying it? This game is sinking, from everything I've conjured up in this post.

 

To which I reiterate my point. The entire point of the TORtanic concept was that , back in the 1.7 million subscribers days, that like the Titanic, it was supposed to be invincible, but the invincibility was a myth. I remember deriding the original coiner of the term by tearing apart his half-baked assertion that the game would lose a million subscribers in 6 months time as unadulterated histrionics....

 

...and boy, was I wrong. But that's not what we have here any more. No one thinks SWTOR is invulnerable or a threat of any kind to WoW. So the analogy doesn't really fit. Yes, it's sinking, but there are plenty of sinking ships that weren't billed as indestructible, and there are plenty of sinking MMO's that didn't have the arrogance to actually honestly attempt to make a run at WoW.

 

Using the term now just gets people riled up and upset , instead of thinking about what you said. It's why we have so many arrgh-uments, because people like the game and someone starts lambasting it and they think it's a good game and so leap to it's defense.

 

The numbers may have been legit but this game's player-base keeps bleeding out and will keep hemorrhaging if something isn't done.

 

Every incorrect or questionable assertion weakens the main argument. I don't disagree the game will keep losing subs, but if you support this fact with arguments that people can attack, they won't listen.

 

We aren't going to get anywhere saying, "Oh, F2P will definitely save the game because it worked so well for <insert game here>. Many people left after this patch but after this patch more people will definitely come back!"

 

Ha, F2P puts games in a survival mode powered by people with too much disposable income. Most of the F2P games follow this pattern:

 

1) Announce F2P, freeze work on real content to prepare systems for F2P transition

2) Go F2P, initial wave of new players buys at 5% to 8% rates. 100,000 * 5% * 30 days * average cost of $5 = 4 million dollars, roughly, or THREE TIMES the revenue from subscribers. That rate does NOT hold more than a month or two....but that's okay.

3) Glutted with enough cash to keep the game going a year, they package up all the content they stopped working on earlier. The best is repackaged as cash shop, but at least one neat feature and a LOT of other content is pushed out for free. This shows "we're still doing updates".

4) Money is spent on developing more cash shop stuff .. and a bit on free content at the 6 month point.

5) From there on out, it's almost all cash stuff. The occasional free thingy (PVP Map, adventure, ship, sword, whatever) comes out as a sop.

 

SWTOR won't be any different, and at first things WILL seem to improve.

 

Sorry, but a lot of EAWare's White Knights need to realize that their game isn't doing so well.

 

I read a book about the psychology of White Knights, both in relationships and with causes. It's a transferral of lack of personal self-esteem and lack of personal achievement to either someone damaged, or some cause that is in trouble.

 

Fanboys are not white knights. Fanboys have an irrational support of a concept for the sake of the concept and their attachment is primarily mental, and most of them have strong self-esteem and , indeed, value their own beliefs over others. That's why they ignore arguments and logic to the contrary. I don't see a lot of actual White Knighting saying Bioware's actions are helping the game and we are just too cruel, more like fanboys who want the game to succeed not being willing to engage the possibility of failure.

 

For you second point—I think EAWare was so arrogant to say that content will roll out much faster than any other MMO developing company could ever do. This made a lot of this game's subscribers think this game would be some "MMO Jesus" or something and to see content rolling out every 30–60 days would make this game re-playable for such a long time.

 

I think the bigger issue wasn't just EA. EA's been known for this concept of throwing money at things and then demanding success. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but their management of their portfolio is atrocious. No, in my opinion, the arrogance was in Bioware's court, for not putting out realistic expectations of what the end product should have as viable. People say it was rushed, but HOW HARD IS IT to make a PVP counter that works, or a group finder? Really?

 

A secondary issue, about update frequency as a whole, may indeed be driven by EA. I don't honestly know if that's EA arrogance , BW rose-colored goggles, or the fact that they were literally swimming in CASH to make the game, more than some countries GDP. That probably affects things.

 

That's the only thing I disagree on. Not only because it's my thread, but this shows SWTOR's so-called "development". It isn't getting better, but it's shown getting worse and worse.

 

I don't doubt your conclusions. I merely feel that when you use methods to convince people that end up getting attacked it distracts from the ultimate goal of the thread: this isn't working, stop telling BW it's working and make them realize they need to change course now or you'll end up with Warhammer in Space.

[BlackSpin]

IMO: The Hero engine is the single most detrimental decision that was made for this game, and what has ruined it... or will. I can't walk up on 15 players on the fleet without getting some kind of lag, exactly when the player does the little white "flash" animation and comes into view. I'm not running the top of the line graphics, but fairly decent enough to play other graphically intensive games on high settings. This is what is limiting SWTOR in all aspects of game play. This is why we don't have Ilum, or any other kind of meaningful open world PvP (I'm a PvP'er BTW, could care less about scripted boss mechanics). The only thing they can do is create war zones, where they know there will only be 16 players on a map at a time.

 

And for all of you saying "This game is fine...," my average fleet population hasn't changed much with the server merges, even after axing 90% of the servers. You do the math.

Edited September 28, 2012 by BlackSpin

[Mallorik]

The one thing that can help speed this game up and have it march on stronger is having more people play it. Do you really think posts like these help? What is your end game here? Why are you posting this?

 

Posts like this didnt hurt the game, bioware not listening to these posts in beta and people who blindly defended them from the truth is what hurt this game. There were almost 2 million people playing this game, bringing more people in before its actualy up to par with other established mmos will not make this game better, and if most of this isnt fixed by the time they roll out f2p this game will go down in flames.

 

It is unbelievable to me that a game with as much money invested into it as this one had people designing it that were so ignorant about the mmo world and so arogant that they refused to research what they needed to know. Now im afraid theyve blamed and fired everyone that had half a shread of creativity or knowhow and kept the ones at the top that made these terrible decisions in the first place.

[MOPSFounder]

IMO: The Hero engine is the single most detrimental decision that was made for this game, and what has ruined it... or will. I can't walk up on 15 players on the fleet without getting some kind of lag, exactly when the player does the little white "flash" animation and comes into view. I'm not running the top of the line graphics, but fairly decent enough to play other graphically intensive games on high settings. This is what is limiting SWTOR in all aspects of game play. This is why we don't have Ilum, or any other kind of meaningful open world PvP (I'm a PvP'er BTW, could care less about scripted boss mechanics). The only thing they can do is create war zones, where they know there will only be 16 players on a map at a time.

 

And for all of you saying "This game is fine...," my average fleet population hasn't changed much with the server merges, even after axing 90% of the servers. You do the math.

Agree with your first point. This thread was meant for post-release transition, but one of the biggest mistakes is that BioWare (I think before EA bought them off) bought an unfinished engine which they thought they could optimize. Just look now—this game can't handle 10 Sith Sorcerers on the screen using Force Storm. This game isn't only a zerg-fest with OPvP but also a lag-fest. They really should have seen this one coming with only two factions and an extremely poorly optimized engine respectively.

 

As for my Fleet population, I think it's gone down just a tad bit. The server merge for The Fatman to the Prophecy of the Fatman really helped in my opinion, but I'm not sure how long this band-aid will last since this game keeps bleeding out players.

[ObiJuanShenobi]

Let's Take a Trip Down a Sinking Ship Memory Lane...

 

 

I thought about responding to more points by sections...but screw it, I can say what I need to say without them.

 

Your peice is entirely biased completed unsupported by real facts. The 'sources' you listed (IMO) have zero credibility.

 

To me, this is just another "DOOM!" piece. But I appreciate the passion in your point of view.

 

Nothing else to see here, move along.

Edited September 28, 2012 by ObiJuanShenobi

[MOPSFounder]

I thought about responding to more points by sections...but screw it, I can say what I need to say without them.

 

Your peice is entirely biased completed unsupported by real facts. The 'sources' you listed (IMO) have zero credibility.

 

To me, this is just another "DOOM!" piece. But I appreciate the passion in your point of view.

 

Nothing else to see here, move along.

So you're saying a lot of the links I provided that show the devs themselves and come from this website itself has NO credibility whatsoever? Wow.

 

Read before judging.

 

 

[Mallorik]

Ultima Online

Earth and Beyond

Dark Age of Camelot

Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning

The Sims Online

 

All owned by EA.

 

I dont think EA ran Ultima when it was successful (its hardly comparable to any modern mmoanyway) and when they took over DAOC they screwed it up so badly that even the classic servers died. Warhammers failure was only eclipsed by swtor and i wouldnt put sims in the mmo genre we are talking about. I dont even remember earth and beyond except that i played it at release so i dont think it was a winner either.

 

With a catalog like that in my portfolio i think i would claim "no experience with mmos" instead of rattling off a list of my games that flopped or succesful ones i took over and destroyed.

[LogicalPremise]

Warhammers failure was only eclipsed by swtor

 

No, man. WH was all Mythic fail. And SWTOR at least LAUNCHED okay, Warhammer blew through almost as many subscribers in half the time and had a launch of such shambolic proportions that it fried people's video cards.

 

Also, SWTOR hasn't stolen thousands of dollars from the community due to bogus billing charges. Warhammer is the failingest fail of all time, and it's so fail it can't even die properly.

[Jetronin]

An interesting read of a thread. Personally I disagree and enjoy SWTOR with an active guild who play, we have had a reasonable content rate (hell better than wow), maybe not as fast as Bioware wanted but still good IMO.

 

PvP IMO is also good. The WoW PvPers don't like it in the main. Most of my guild now PvP regually (we are a PvE guild) and enjoy the PvP more than any of us did in wow or whatever MMO we came from. Chatting to others I get the same feeling, so they have pitched PvP right as it captures a different group than WoW, I also know a lot of player who went to GW2 who have come back unimpressed with its PvP and no real end game PvE content.

 

As for my Fleet population, I think it's gone down just a tad bit. The server merge for The Fatman to the Prophecy of the Fatman really helped in my opinion, but I'm not sure how long this band-aid will last since this game keeps bleeding out players.

 

I would have to disagree on mine, I have been watching TRE's pop and it has before and since merge on fleet slowly been rising (OK post merge may have been players coming back and ofc you will now have the 1.4 bubble so it is harder to tell atm)

 

There are issues, ofc there are it is to be expected, some could have been dealt with better some worse, what you have to ask is do you enjoy playing SWTOR more than you would X, Y or Z, and I do, the only other game I lay regally atm is DayZ.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Jetronin

[MOPSFounder]

An interesting read of a thread. Personally I disagree and enjoy SWTOR with an active guild who play, we have had a reasonable content rate (hell better than wow), maybe not as fast as Bioware wanted but still good IMO.

 

PvP IMO is also good. The WoW PvPers don't like it in the main. Most of my guild now PvP regually (we are a PvE guild) and enjoy the PvP more than any of us did in wow or whatever MMO we came from. Chatting to others I get the same feeling, so they have pitched PvP right as it captures a different group than WoW, I also know a lot of player who went to GW2 who have come back unimpressed with its PvP and no real end game PvE content.

 

 

 

I would have to disagree on mine, I have been watching TRE's pop and it has before and since merge on fleet slowly been rising (OK post merge may have been players coming back and ofc you will now have the 1.4 bubble so it is harder to tell atm)

 

There are issues, ofc there are it is to be expected, some could have been dealt with better some worse, what you have to ask is do you enjoy playing SWTOR more than you would X, Y or Z, and I do, the only other game I lay regally atm is DayZ.

Honestly, I got this MMO because it wasn't anything fantasy-themed and got it because I'm a huge Star Wars fan. In the end, the grass is truly greener here and I would never find myself playing GW2 (despite being a huge PvP junkie) or WoW.

 

The populations apparently have been in decline. I've heard TORstatus has shown server declines after server merges and they may have increased a bit after 1.4's release, but I guess it was just that little hype that'll just die down again these next few weeks.

 

This thread wasn't made because "I hate SWTOR" or "SWTOR is dying/dead", etc. I made this thread to show the current timeline of events of how this game's been handled and to show those comparing this MMO post-F2P to another MMO that's become better post-F2P. This MMO may overshadow WAR's failure (a little hyperbole, maybe?) or maybe not. It's all speculation until November hits.

 

I have my doubts with this game improving tenfold with EA in the picture, but if this game becomes a whole lot better after F2P then I have learned my lesson.

[Jetronin]

You however paint a very bleak picture with few positives. The way the F2P option has been done cant really harm the game as the f2per will have very limited access to endgame. So long as the cartel coin stuff is just cosmetic and utility it will not negatively impact the game.

 

They wont go P2W as that is a recipe for disaster and they will know this, they would have to be idiots to do it as they would make less money that way

 

Other games, notably LOTRO actually did far better after F2P (never played myself so cant comment to much). As a subscriber I cant see this being bad for me and as a guild leader I think its great as if a guildie cant play for a month or 2 due to monetary reasons he is still there to do other stuff with which means he will be more likely to stay engaged.

 

Also if you look at TOR status and the Population trends its still in normal weekly flux, we have had 2 big things happen close together so its up. Keep an eye on it for a while after all this to see what the result is.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Jetronin

[Goretzu]

 

PvP IMO is also good. The WoW PvPers don't like it in the main. Most of my guild now PvP regually (we are a PvE guild) and enjoy the PvP more than any of us did in wow or whatever MMO we came from. Chatting to others I get the same feeling, so they have pitched PvP right as it captures a different group than WoW, I also know a lot of player who went to GW2 who have come back unimpressed with its PvP and no real end game PvE content.

 

 

The PvP is terrible in SWTOR, and that's not comparing it to WoW (which is also terribile).

 

If they ditched the resolve system and got something fit for purpose it would be a lot better, but then they'd still need some RvR (or better RvRvR) and even then really collision detection.

 

Which is a shame because the classes are well built for PvP and the SW universe in general was build around RvR.

[Goretzu]

Other games, notably LOTRO actually did far better after F2P (never played myself so cant comment to much). As a subscriber I cant see this being bad for me and as a guild leader I think its great as if a guildie cant play for a month or 2 due to monetary reasons he is still there to do other stuff with which means he will be more likely to stay engaged.

 

Mmm.......... that's not entirely true, they active accounts went up, and as such it was more profitable, but whether it went up with $15 a month per active account as it would in sub model MMORPG is another matter.

 

The bludge dropped off though and LOTRO was back down to pre-F2P level of active accounts (RoR may have change this again - we'll have to see long-term effects).

 

 

So whilst SWTOR active accounts may rise in the short-term (1-3 years) like LOTRO that doesn't mean profitablilty or developement will rise proportionally.

 

On the other hand F2P my be perfect for SWTOR and we'll see massive amounts of active accounts, which may get EA to take SWTOR off semi-maintance mode (which I think it's basically in) and back into a proper MMORPG development cycle.

[Knockerz]

The PvP is terrible in SWTOR, and that's not comparing it to WoW (which is also terribile).

 

If they ditched the resolve system and got something fit for purpose it would be a lot better, but then they'd still need some RvR (or better RvRvR) and even then really collision detection.

 

Which is a shame because the classes are well built for PvP and the SW universe in general was build around RvR.

 

The pvp in game would be fine had ilum worked and rated warzone launch on patch 1.2 not patch 1.3. Unfortunately, BW was not able to fix ilum and shutdown ilum until they could fix it. This reminds of sony and how they disabled battlegrounds until they could fix them, but never fixed battlegrounds. To my recollection sony never fixed battlegrounds in swg. Thus, never turn them back on. I was lucky enough to activate a battleground in the early days after launch for swg.