AshlaBoga Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 You're all missing the true horror of the gear art. Tier 1: Tionese, Columi, Rakata (Same Art) Tier 2: Campaign, Dread Guard, [NiM Terror] (Same Art???) I really hope that the 2.3 Art isn't the same as the 2.1 and 2.2 Art. Please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 It's a money trap and quite frankly, should be illegal IMO. I thought stuff like that WAS illegal when it uses real money, as it becomes REAL gambling... which EA presumably isn't licensed to do in most states, and being a US company, government could actually go after them for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) I talked with Jason Attard (Senior Game Balance Designer) about our plans for endgame armor appearances as well as appearances that will be available in the Cartel Market. He said that we definitely intend to continue releasing new armor appearances for players doing endgame content. Explosive Conflict and Terror from Beyond were always intended to share the same appearance, just as Eternity Vault and Karagga’s Palace do, and our next Operation will feature a new appearance tier. We have no plans to stop the creation of appearances for endgame content. The first season of Cartel packs will draw heavily on preexisting armor appearances that haven’t been used for player-wearable equipment thus far. They’ll include some new models, but we did not draw on endgame content appearances for them. Short version: .......We're making players pay to gamble for getting not new freshly made gear but existing one. Not only it's a scam, but you're not even building it on new gear. Edited September 29, 2012 by Deewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolaf Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I thought stuff like that WAS illegal when it uses real money, as it becomes REAL gambling... which EA presumably isn't licensed to do in most states, and being a US company, government could actually go after them for it. Agreed this should be illegal; at most you should be able to loot the boxes, see what item is inside and then decide wether or not to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparviero Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Just let me buy the artwork I want for my gear or have a clear path to grinding it. That way I can choose if sub cost/time invested in grinding for gear is cheaper or more expensive than just outright buying it. The customer is always right. Ja, maar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalkavianLogic Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Um, what? The "Dread Guard" gear has existed on datamining sites like Torhead since 1.2 (Explosive Conflict) came out. It was called "Denova" gear. "Denova" gear gives identical stats to "Dread Guard" gear. Its pretty obvious that "Denova" gear was originally meant for Nightmare EC, just look at the name. NEC never came out though, so you just changed the name and moved it to HMTFB instead. An example: Denova Survivor's Boots http://www.torhead.com/item/1SIhFY/denova-survivors-boots Dread Guard Survivor's Boots http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/image41.png Could EC and TFB have "always intended to share the same appearance"? I guess. The gear we got though was intended for Nightmare EC. Also, EV and KP gear shares appearance because they both drop the same set, Rakata. There is no precedent for two tiers of gear from different Ops looking identical. I honestly don't know what was so hard to understand about that explanation. KP and EV are two instances that share the same loot looks... EC and TFB are two instances that share the same loot looks. They just explained that they're updating art tied to pairs of raids and, ironically enough, EC and TFB have even more of a tie together than KP and EV did since they essentially share a continuous story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithros Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) The loot boxes are not 'gambling'. You are going to get something. That something can be argued to be worth exactly the same as every other something that you might get. It's all just pixels. This is no different than putting a quarter into a gumball machine. Whether you wanted the red gum and got blue, or you wanted the sticker of your favorite team and got one that you have barely heard of, you got what your quarter said you would get. Heck, it's like going to the movies... Do you know what you are going to get? The correct answer here is 'a movie', not 'a 2 hour+ long movie' or 'a movie that I will really like'. These boxes are the same. You are never going to open one up and get nothing. You will get gear. Maybe it will be gear that you wanted, maybe it wil be useless to you. But it will be gear, and if that's all that they promise, there is no gambling. The presence of chance does not automatically make something gambling. Edited September 29, 2012 by Mithros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockerz Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) The loot boxes are not 'gambling'. You are going to get something. That something can be argued to be worth exactly the same as every other something that you might get. It's all just pixels. This is no different than putting a quarter into a gumball machine. Whether you wanted the red gum and got blue, or you wanted the sticker of your favorite team and got one that you have barely heard of, you got what your quarter said you would get. Heck, it's like going to the movies... Do you know what you are going to get? The correct answer here is 'a movie', not 'a 2 hour+ long movie' or 'a movie that I will really like'. These boxes are the same. You are never going to open one up and get nothing. You will get gear. Maybe it will be gear that you wanted, maybe it wil be useless to you. But it will be gear, and if that's all that they promise, there is no gambling. The presence of chance does not automatically make something gambling. No, I want to buy a particular item not a gambling box. That's assuming I still play this game when it goes f2p. If they decided to use these gambling boxes I might as well not buy any. I hate gambling since I equate gambling with throwing away money, unless the odds are in my favor. As for the developer's reply confirm my suspicions that EA/BW is planning to use all the beta orange gear they didn't release into the cash shop. Edited September 29, 2012 by Knockerz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apeth Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Um, what? The "Dread Guard" gear has existed on datamining sites like Torhead since 1.2 (Explosive Conflict) came out. It was called "Denova" gear. "Denova" gear gives identical stats to "Dread Guard" gear. Its pretty obvious that "Denova" gear was originally meant for Nightmare EC, just look at the name. NEC never came out though, so you just changed the name and moved it to HMTFB instead. An example: Denova Survivor's Boots http://www.torhead.com/item/1SIhFY/denova-survivors-boots Dread Guard Survivor's Boots http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/image41.png Could EC and TFB have "always intended to share the same appearance"? I guess. The gear we got though was intended for Nightmare EC. Also, EV and KP gear shares appearance because they both drop the same set, Rakata. There is no precedent for two tiers of gear from different Ops looking identical. Well that might explain why data mining isn't 100% accurate. Because the devs might change things. Its their perogative after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apeth Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Short version: .......We're making players pay to gamble at getting not new freshly made gear but existing one. Not only it's a scam, but you're not even building it on new gear. The post clearly says gear not used thus far. I'm guessing its gear already developed but not in game yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorenia Posted September 29, 2012 Author Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) He said that we definitely intend to continue releasing new armor appearances for players doing endgame content. Explosive Conflict and Terror from Beyond were always intended to share the same appearance, just as Eternity Vault and Karagga’s Palace do, and our next Operation will feature a new appearance tier. That frankly makes no sense. EV and Karagga's Palace were available at roughly the same time. Sure KP wasn't available at release but most of us were leveling then anyways. Whatever your "plans" were they were insufficient. Either way the reality is we've been jipped for a long time on new armor art. You owe us some new armor art at this point but it's being diverted to F2P content. Even worse you put it into these gambling boxes where you aren't even required to provide the odds to a regulatory body. Then on top of that you get to sell them to children. Vegas must be pissing themselves with envy. The loot boxes are not 'gambling'. This is no different than putting a quarter into a gumball machine. Actually those little item vending machines are considered gambling in most states and are regulated under various rules. Edited September 29, 2012 by Sorenia Avoiding doublepost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliteAssasin Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 They did this with mass effect 3 muliplayer with the packs in there. I hated that. Why not let us choose what to buy rather than spend money on a random drop? I want to pay for what I want, not a chance to get something. That not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithros Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Actually those little item vending machines are considered gambling in most states and are regulated under various rules. Right. Sure it is. Look, it's really simple. If this was gambling, it would have been shut down a long time ago. Think that maybe the authorities just aren't aware of it? Then get on the phone and tell them yourself if you can manage to rip yourself away from the forums for a minute. You don't have to like it; Heck, I don't like it, but it is what it is. They are doing this for a reason: It works. So don't buy them. Make your stand. But something tells me that some of the people complaining loudest are going to end up deciding that that helmet is really nice and just perfect for the look that they were going for and well, they did work that overtime last week.... All the caterwauling on the forums means nothing if those boxes sell. You want to make a statement? You make it loudest by not buying the stuff. These words? Not worth the paper that they are printed on, and considering that they aren't even printed on paper, well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoomazir Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) This makes me think of the Mass Effect 3 multiplayer chests purchases. Edited September 29, 2012 by yoomazir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) You can buy ME3 items for in-game currency. So far we don't know if we'll be able to spend in-game credits on such gambling boxes... And that quote about selling gambling boxes to children and Vegas wetting itself from envy... Just made my day. Edited September 29, 2012 by Alec_Fortescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Shame that they want to include the already existing npc armor into the cartel shop. It's prolly gonna be stuff which was on most ads for the game (hood down armor sets...) that we should've received months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarekLonefeather Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 The first season of Cartel packs will draw heavily on preexisting armor appearances that haven’t been used for player-wearable equipment thus far. They’ll include some new models, but we did not draw on endgame content appearances for them. You know, I would never pay to gamble on a chance to get something in any game, but I would actually pay a few dollars to buy custom armor and weapon appearances and other things that I want as long as I'm enjoying playing the game. Unfortunately, Bioware, I'm not enjoying your game because it is boring at level 50. I find myself logging on and then realizing there is nothing to do that I will enjoy doing, so I log off and do something much more enjoyable like playing Free Cell on my PC or watching Storage Wars on TV; seriously. I cancelled my subscription a couple days ago because of this. I doubt I'll be playing F2P because if there was any reason for me to play, I would not have cancelled my sub. But this latest effort by you, Bioware, to fleece more money out of your players by coercing them into gambling for the appearances they want, just put the nail in your coffin as far as I'm concerned. Such behavior on your part is not only immoral and unethical but it might also be illegal here in the U.S. So before you implement your gambling scheme, you might want to have your legal department review the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 and all subsequent case law and then try to imagine the uproar from parents to their congressmen and senators when they find out little Johnny has wasted his college fund wagering for cyber gear in your game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesphin Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 The first season of Cartel packs will draw heavily on preexisting armor appearances that haven’t been used for player-wearable equipment thus far. Just one word : shyster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZORG Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I don't see the big deal with this, at the moment in the game you can either get boxes for free as rewards for missions completed or spend commendations to get them. Now they have decided to put them in the CC shop as something you can buy to get that 1 in a million cool looking gear. This isn't new to the game, the new part is that you have to pay for them in F2P with real money or the free Cartel Coins that are given to subscribers. Yes you may get the boxes for free as a subber but will you get the key to unlock it for free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evensong Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Yes you may get the boxes for free as a subber but will you get the key to unlock it for free? You will get monthly enough cartel coins to get a key. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarbNull Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I would gamble in this game. That is if they put Pazaak in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckKing Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 You know, I would never pay to gamble on a chance to get something in any game, but I would actually pay a few dollars to buy custom armor and weapon appearances and other things that I want as long as I'm enjoying playing the game. Unfortunately, Bioware, I'm not enjoying your game because it is boring at level 50. I find myself logging on and then realizing there is nothing to do that I will enjoy doing, so I log off and do something much more enjoyable like playing Free Cell on my PC or watching Storage Wars on TV; seriously. I cancelled my subscription a couple days ago because of this. I doubt I'll be playing F2P because if there was any reason for me to play, I would not have cancelled my sub. But this latest effort by you, Bioware, to fleece more money out of your players by coercing them into gambling for the appearances they want, just put the nail in your coffin as far as I'm concerned. Such behavior on your part is not only immoral and unethical but it might also be illegal here in the U.S. So before you implement your gambling scheme, you might want to have your legal department review the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 and all subsequent case law and then try to imagine the uproar from parents to their congressmen and senators when they find out little Johnny has wasted his college fund wagering for cyber gear in your game. I agree with everything this guy said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthehoyden Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 (edited) Couple questions about these gambling boxes and the gear in them: 1) is the gear BOP? BOL? BOE? 2) is an entire set going to be in one box? is each piece going to be separate? what's the average number of boxes we would have to open to get a matching set? Edit: 3) are they (or any item in the cash shop) vendorable (and thus an avenue for transferring cash into credits)? Edited September 29, 2012 by iamthehoyden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 The post clearly says gear not used thus far. I'm guessing its gear already developed but not in game yet? Let's read again the mighty sentence: The first season of Cartel packs will draw heavily on preexisting armor appearances that haven’t been used for player-wearable equipment thus far. They’ll include some new models, but we did not draw on endgame content appearances for them. First notice how new models is tuned down with "some". Meaning the new models won't be the majority. Then tie the above with the first sentence. So what we can expect is: Existing NPC models being unlocked for players wihout any changes at all.Above models with re-colorization onlyAbove models now tweaked with new meshes, transforming them slightly.Above models slightly tweaked, like removing a few poly (spkies) or lowering proportions (smaller shoulder pads)Totally new models coming with new meshes and textures. My guess considering they fired most of the people and were already outsourcing the art plus the fact they are reusing existing assets: #1 & #2: will be the majority (70% ?) because you can provide "new" gear to the players effortlessly. #3 & #4: a handful of existing gear will be tuned down. Don't expect more than 20% of the "new" gear #5: I would be surprised to see much more than 1 out of 10 items being totally new Hopefully I'm totally wrong but regarding past performance, I don't think so. Now pretty much expect all the really new & cool gear coming in gambling boxes to milk players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorenia Posted September 30, 2012 Author Share Posted September 30, 2012 Right. Sure it is. Look, it's really simple. If this was gambling, it would have been shut down a long time ago. Think that maybe the authorities just aren't aware of it? Then get on the phone and tell them yourself if you can manage to rip yourself away from the forums for a minute. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claw_crane#Legality. The govt in South Korea has actually started cracking down on this stuff too. That said I've never claimed this is illegal. It's simply gambling that is currently unregulated. That means they get to set the odds and keep them secret. No regulating body gets to check and make sure that you can actually win. In summation you will get WORSE odds than Vegas on this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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