Thiella Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I see the OP classes want to stay OP and afraid a nerfbat. Vanguards are OP but sadly nerfbat isn't coming soon. No wonder why this game will be f2p soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_y Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Is it too late for me to jump in as the voice of reason and point out that the difference between heavy armor and medium armor (i.e. armor related survivability of a Powertech vs. a Marauder) is not that large and that it really is mostly about cooldowns / escape? Even if every attack was mitigated by armor, the difference amounts to maybe a couple hundred damage per GCD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacer Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Been reading alot of posts lately about how "overpowered" the Vanguard class is and how the damage is so "unbalanced" compared to other classes. First and foremost, ive been playing my Vanguard for roughly 4-5 months now and I can tell you without a doubt we are NOT "overpowered" by any means. Let me explain why. The Vanguard class has absolutely ZERO survivability compared to other classes (talking about the assault tree here btw since I think thats what people are complaining about). We dont have a sprint. We dont have a force cloak. We can't heal ourselves. Basically with the Vanguard class there is no Fight or Flight option for us. When I engage the enemy on my Vanguard I know either im going to get killed or i'm going to kill them. That's all. EA/BW i'm sure sees this as well that is why they will NOT nerf the Vanguard. As far as our damage goes, if you compare it to say a Marauder, Shadow Tank, hell even a good operative, you'll find that the Vanguard is way way behind those classes in both damage AND survivability. So to all those players hoping for some kind of nerf to the Vanguard you're going to have to wait until the Marauder gets nerfed first before any changes happen to the Vanguard. Sorry but when I read some of these posts it sounds like a L2P issues to me. Anyway just my two cents. Funny... because a Vanguard is one of those classes that can hard counter a marauder. You play a vanguard and you post Nerf marauder threads; Pot, meet Kettle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajPl Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Funny... because a Vanguard is one of those classes that can hard counter a marauder. You play a vanguard and you post Nerf marauder threads; Pot, meet Kettle. No just no. Marauders destroy vanguards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehrealdealz Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 Funny... because a Vanguard is one of those classes that can hard counter a marauder. You play a vanguard and you post Nerf marauder threads; Pot, meet Kettle. hmm...someone obviously has never faced a full WH Marauder before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilk Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) Why in the heck do people keep saying Vanguards/Powertechs have no gap closers? Learn the damn class before talking about it, it's called grapple. And it closes the gap just fine, though it is on a much longer cooldown than force leap and force charge. Edited October 7, 2012 by Devilk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNegotiator Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I've been playing my Vanguard a long time, and now playing a shadow I can tell you the Vanguard survivability is lousy. Force speed/multiple stuns/great snare/cloak...now that is what you call survivability . The "heavy armor" thing is bit a of a misnomer/mystery. Assault Vanguards don't run ion cell so their heavy armor is not really all the heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehrealdealz Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 I've been playing my Vanguard a long time, and now playing a shadow I can tell you the Vanguard survivability is lousy. Force speed/multiple stuns/great snare/cloak...now that is what you call survivability . The "heavy armor" thing is bit a of a misnomer/mystery. Assault Vanguards don't run ion cell so their heavy armor is not really all the heavy. Exactly. And that is why the vanguard is perfectly balanced in the eyes of ea. yes the ac has what i would call burst damage but focus a vanguard down and he has no outs. the life of a vanguard is like this: kill or be kiled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 The range nerf was necessary but now the class is balanced enough. It's still extremely boring to play though but that's just my personal feeling on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draekos Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 No just no. Marauders destroy vanguards. No, just No, my VG has eaten his share Maras, while it probably helps that I have played quite a bit as a marauder. Most just explode when I focus them. There are some outstanding ones out there, but not most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajPl Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 No, just No, my VG has eaten his share Maras, while it probably helps that I have played quite a bit as a marauder. Most just explode when I focus them. There are some outstanding ones out there, but not most. Marauder vs vanguard is a simple dps race - both have similar damage, one has more defensive cooldowns, so guess who wins the race? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laforet Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Vanguard has ZERO survivabililty alright, im sure deception sins, sorcs and concealment ops could use that 12 sec 25% dmg reduction shield which can be specced to beak roots/slows and to have its own cd reduction every time someone (grasp) hits you. You guys are priceless, just priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajPl Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Vanguard has ZERO survivabililty alright, im sure deception sins, sorcs and concealment ops could use that 12 sec 25% dmg reduction shield which can be specced to beak roots/slows and to have its own cd reduction every time someone (grasp) hits you. You guys are priceless, just priceless. Deception sins dont have force speed, cloak, deflection and force shroud ? Ops dont have cloak, a speed buff, 2 shields and that little hide behind the corner and heal yourself trick ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Been leveling a couple alts in lowbie PvP lately. There's a Vanguard duo on my server who are both level 23, and each puts up 400k damage consistently. That's level 23, kids. Which means they don't even have the top tier talents yet that really make Assault shine. Powertech is my main. Has been since beta, long before the FOTMers started re-rolling. I've since switched to Shieldtech, as Pyro has long been boring and stale. The OP has a point to an extent. Yes, this spec is fight or flight because they don't have defensive CDs or escape mechanisms. It's either them or you. However... Point for point, Pyro/Assault continues to offer the highest damage versus skill and/or level in the game. The class literally has no learning curve, and requires very little situational awareness or managing CDs. Without a doubt, this is the ez-mode class. Even tanking in PvE is stupid easy compared to other classes. Don't delude yourself into thinking that you're awesome or a special snowflake. Literally ANYONE call faceroll with this class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisblood Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Been reading alot of posts lately about how "overpowered" the Vanguard class is and how the damage is so "unbalanced" compared to other classes. First and foremost, ive been playing my Vanguard for roughly 4-5 months now and I can tell you without a doubt we are NOT "overpowered" by any means. Let me explain why. The Vanguard class has absolutely ZERO survivability compared to other classes (talking about the assault tree here btw since I think thats what people are complaining about). We dont have a sprint. We dont have a force cloak. We can't heal ourselves. Basically with the Vanguard class there is no Fight or Flight option for us. When I engage the enemy on my Vanguard I know either im going to get killed or i'm going to kill them. That's all. EA/BW i'm sure sees this as well that is why they will NOT nerf the Vanguard. As far as our damage goes, if you compare it to say a Marauder, Shadow Tank, hell even a good operative, you'll find that the Vanguard is way way behind those classes in both damage AND survivability. So to all those players hoping for some kind of nerf to the Vanguard you're going to have to wait until the Marauder gets nerfed first before any changes happen to the Vanguard. Sorry but when I read some of these posts it sounds like a L2P issues to me. Anyway just my two cents. Because DEVS told us they want VG/PT feel like super soldier. I have no problem with them doing hiest dmg in the game but ffs remove their 2+4 sec stun. A class with such dmg do not need any stuns so we can at list counter them a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancaglon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) The OP has some validity, but generally, AS VG/Pyro PT burst is too high -- this is also true of snipers and marauders. (And I speak as someone with a mid-level Vanguard -- I also have a 50 Shadow and 50 Commando). Combining this with the sheer amount of stuns and other incapacitation in this game, it makes for a very poor player experience until they do a lot of gear grinding. IMO, health pools should be doubled, so that there is actually time to react rather than being blown up, mostly while stunned. Mediocre survivability is still better than Commando/Mercenary gets, and they certainly don't do any better than an equivalent-geared VG/PT, even when both use essentially the same skill tree. As for level 20ish putting out 400k damage, you need to remember that in the pre-50 bracket, Bolster allows for some serious twinkage -- kit out those with social gear, fill with purple mods, armorings and barrels, and you will be so far ahead of "the curve" that you will be bolstered to godly levels. Edited October 9, 2012 by Ancaglon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajPl Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I guess I could look for that old screen where my guildie did 299k damage on a lvl 10 sage. Nerf sages? I put up 400+k damage on my slinger consistently, nerf slingers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laforet Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Deception sins dont have force speed, cloak, deflection and force shroud ? Ops dont have cloak, a speed buff, 2 shields and that little hide behind the corner and heal yourself trick ? None of those work when youre under focus fire in a rated WZ. Cloaks? What do you mean by cloaks? CDs that lasts for 3 seconds and deflect auto attacks only? You guys just dont get it do you? Assault is the second high dps competitive burst meleeish spec in terms of survivability, losing only to mara. If you say mara has the most incredible OP cds, im right with you, but saying Assault has zero survivability? Thats BS seriously. In the realm of melee dps, Vanguard survivability is only second to maras, with heavy armor and a very nice defensive cooldown, something that none other melee dps has (except mara). Thats why you dont see deception in RWZs, and very few concealments (which are generally demoted to the role of sap capping / stealth guarding). And no, shadow tanks arent melee dps, sure they hit like one but thats another matter. Edited October 8, 2012 by Laforet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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