MMOs New Gen of Players

[Keil]

I'm a major Star Wars fan, as in... yes I collect Star Wars everything, and yes I made my own Mandalorian armor set for Cons and such (actually have 2 sets). So just saying where i'm comming from here in my opinions.

 

I played SWG from its beta to lights out so I went through all that like most others, but I would rather go back to SWG if it came back (it's not, except EMUs). Why I feel that way, In my opinion is the new gen of players..

 

OK, basicly the whole player community has changed in MMOs and has changed everything with it. New generation of players expect content now and no excuses for downtime and so on. The fourms are turning into a place to complain. Back in the day there was no term as a "troll", and all the new kids think it's the coolest thing ever to be one and get people upset and angry, the whole in-game community has change and not in a good way. Someone asks a question in chat and gets 5 or 6 ******** responces that don't help. I avoid the station when I would of used to love to go there and chat.

I think most people that are trying to compair SWG to SWtOR are actually missing that sence of community and fun social gameplay.

I've been back playing LotRO and it is mindblowing how different the people are there. They help you out, answer questions, chat about whatever without getting trolled, the whole thing is just more inviting and a better gaming experiance.

IMO player housing and such pull people into the game more, it's rewarding to see the work and effort you have done and others can see it as well. It adds another deeper layer of gameplay. Yeah sure most new MMO players don't see the point, but I'm sure more people do than don't.

 

Point is that the new gen of players mixed with the older gen is screwy. MMOs are about community, I don't care what anyone says, that's what an MMO is. It's just frustrating to me, but I want to get my opinion out there.

Also I'm positive I'll get a troll or two here posting some junk that ammuses them, but that's the way it is now.. and it sucks..

 

-Kei'lyk (Keil)

[kirorx]

A bit off topic but does LOTR have player housing?

[Hambunctious]

Yes they do. Instanced identical neighborhoods, not instanced houses, unless they changed it since the last time I was there.

 

For the OP, you are right. Community makes the MMO, which is one reason why SWG was so fun. It was a lot more social.

[Ashivauto]

agree 1 million % with ya op.... im playing rift and the community is much like swg was- helpful and fun to play with.

from what i see in swtor all the so called mmo players want is a pve game with some co op- nothing wrong with that except why pay $15 a month for that? i can do that with a console and pay a one time fee for the game....

[UltimateLemon]

Yes they do. Instanced identical neighborhoods, not instanced houses, unless they changed it since the last time I was there.

 

Not that it serves any kind of function other than extended account level banking.

[CKNORTH]

My first time playing online was with UO and getting PKd with 300 ingots, didn't play it after that. But then I played D2 over battlenet and the primary reason to play online was because there was a sense of value to it. As in playing online had more value then playing it single player. I think over the years people started to demand entitlement to there sense of value of playing a game online then to play it single player. To be honest I would play any of these games if I could play them single player with the scale of content the put into it. Lol oh well......

[Ricktur]

user generated content ALWAYS draws more people into a community. it gives a sense of accomplishment and ownership to a game. it creates immersion.

 

thats the problem with theme park mmos like swtor. the whiny pvp crowd want instant gratification, so they rather queue up and kill stuff than build community. pvp is a breeding ground for competitive attitudes and behaviors.

 

pvp is ruining mmorpgs.

 

that aside, swtor's instanced planet model destroys any kind of sense of unity with the game world. you are spaced out, and alone.

 

there is no community anymore. community is made when you join a clique guild that happens to have your server by the balls worshipping them for some *********** reason, then they tell a bunch of yo mama inside jokes over fleet gen chat.

 

its ********. mmorpgs are on the fall now. wow was a fluke. they will churn out more and more mmos hoping to recreate what wow did but they all cant. the golden years of mmos are over. you might as well roam the peaks of skyrim forever lonely.

[Bobbyrab]

 

 

 

its ********. mmorpgs are on the fall now. wow was a fluke. they will churn out more and more mmos hoping to recreate what wow did but they all cant. the golden years of mmos are over. you might as well roam the peaks of skyrim forever lonely.

 

Haha this. There's pre-WoW and post-WoW. We live post. People complain an hour after a game launches (the early access/head start mind you, not official launch) and whine about how they've paid for these extra two days. There's no pleasing them.

 

As for the games, we'll continue to see WoW clones. They'll become the AAA titles for online games. One will come out, receive intense hype and adulation from the gaming media, then promptly be forgotten until staff layoffs a few months later.

 

Meanwhile, other indie online games like Dark Souls and World of Tanks will experiment, try new models and be the REAL place to game.

[Keil]

user generated content ALWAYS draws more people into a community. it gives a sense of accomplishment and ownership to a game. it creates immersion.

 

thats the problem with theme park mmos like swtor. the whiny pvp crowd want instant gratification, so they rather queue up and kill stuff than build community. pvp is a breeding ground for competitive attitudes and behaviors.

 

pvp is ruining mmorpgs.

 

that aside, swtor's instanced planet model destroys any kind of sense of unity with the game world. you are spaced out, and alone.

 

there is no community anymore. community is made when you join a clique guild that happens to have your server by the balls worshipping them for some *********** reason, then they tell a bunch of yo mama inside jokes over fleet gen chat.

 

its ********. mmorpgs are on the fall now. wow was a fluke. they will churn out more and more mmos hoping to recreate what wow did but they all cant. the golden years of mmos are over. you might as well roam the peaks of skyrim forever lonely.

 

the golden years are over, for sure man. sad but true. The few mmos released from 5 years ago and back that are still running are a dying breed. WoW was good, and I played the first few years, but saw the change in players. Now I'm not saying it started there, but WoW did pull a huge ammount of new players into MMOs.

 

I agree with the pvp as well and know where you're comming from. I'm on a pvp server, but only because the open world pvp makes it more intresting, I'm a pve player overall.

PvP is something I've seen grow into problem for MMOs. I see a lot of people only playing for the PvP, and that's fine, but the mix of the intense pvpers and the players there for everything is distaster waiting to happen. PvP and PvE seem to be getting pulled apart when it used to be a good mix for everyone to enjoy. Now the publishers are pressured to settle the two so everyone is happy, and that's hard to imagine.

Yeah it seems like the PvP got turned up to overkill, with all the console players joining MMOs wanting some of that online action from fps.

 

I also relized that the term "MMO" used more than "MMORPG". Grant that it's just a shorter term to use, I think the MMO is losing the RPG in the long run. I hardly ever see a person RPing anymore, and those that do get cut off in their own server.

Which brings me to the point.. MMORPGs getting dissected and put into seperate servers, groups, ect.. it does stop the RPers from getting harassed by those that don't RP and that's understandable, but the fact we have to do that these days paints a not so community based picture.

 

Also to answer the LotRO Housing question. Yes it's still instanced towns and not houses. I love being able to display items from bosses outside in my yard and inside my house to show what I've accomplished. It's nice to sit back and see all the hard work you've done displayed, plus some items you can interact with is awesome, such as the orc armor display you can use it and wear it for about 10-15min.

[Keil]

Meanwhile, other indie online games like Dark Souls and World of Tanks will experiment, try new models and be the REAL place to game.

 

Agreed.

 

off-topic.. the mech worrior online game looks awesome. Iused to play the games long ago. it is a ftp mmo when it launches, and i think they made a good decision. Games that have a fan base following (like MW) are hard to gain new intrested people when you have to buy the game and pay monthly at first.

[TheBetty]

The spiralling community was one of the main reasons I left wow. It was getting soo bad that as soon as someone said something/anything in general chat it was like throwing a chicken wing into the troll pit. Angry, irrational people...for what? lol

 

I don't think it's as bad in the TOR community. Sure you still have those trolls doing what they do best. However the Star Wars generation is an ageing generation and with that a little bit more maturity. Most of the people in my guild are mid to late 20's and grew up with Star Wars.

 

That's not to say someone mid to late 20's or older can't be extremely immature, I have mates that prove this lol.

 

I find it quite sad that Trolling has gotten to the point where it is actually considered a problem in real society. I guess like anything, you get a group of people that take it too far. Unchecked it escalates to the levels where all rational conversation breaks down.

[EStarfall]

Synopsis: Bunch of angry old men looking at the past through rose tinted glasses. I bet that hasn't with every generation in the history of mankind.

 

I hear a lot of PvE'ers whine about, and blame nearly everything on the PvP crowd. You come off as just as whiny and entitled as you claim that people who enjoy PvP are. God forbid that some people enjoy both...*the sounds of minds exploding*. Newsflash: Most of the hardcore PvE'ers left this game 3 months ago or more because the content was about as challenging as kindergarten coloring book. Continue with the circle jerk though, it's entertaining in the same way a train wreck is.

Edited September 5, 2012 by EStarfall

[turjake]

Synopsis: Bunch of angry old men looking at the past through rose tinted glasses. I bet that hasn't with every generation in the history of mankind.

 

I hear a lot of PvE'ers whine about, and blame nearly everything on the PvP crowd. You come off as just as whiny and entitled as you claim that people who enjoy PvP are. God forbid that some people enjoy both...*the sounds of minds exploding*. Newsflash: Most of the hardcore PvE'ers left this game 3 months ago or more because the content was about as challenging as kindergarten coloring book. Continue with the circle jerk though, it's entertaining in the same way a train wreck is.

 

Forum pvp, of which you just gave a mild example, is ofcourse part of the problem the op posted.

[Redat]

/AGREE 100% OP, I ended SWG on Starsider, and still have contact with a few people I met while on SWG. There was an entirely different "feel"........I think instancing is playing a factor here, with it being fine on server load BUT hurts the "MMo atmosphere" and immersion. For example, SWG had city-wide PvP battles with Imp and Reb forces slogging it out, even the crafters were included, with them building defences/turrets etc even allowing spacecraft to be used (YES, PLAYER CRAFT) near the end times....................There are so many ways in which to go BUT pandering to the now now now crowd is not the way.

[jmnormand]

In my opinion i think pvp in this game is crap, as is the case in most pve focused mmos. I am not sure why anyone would want to pvp in a primarily pve focused mmo, but they do. thus aaa developers split their resources and try to appease both sides, which more often than not fails. pvp in swtor has huge potential but was obviously an after thought, through much of the development. now bio ware is trying to appease the few dedicated pvps and they just do not have the resources.

[Malefik]

In my opinion i think pvp in this game is crap, as is the case in most pve focused mmos. I am not sure why anyone would want to pvp in a primarily pve focused mmo, but they do. thus aaa developers split their resources and try to appease both sides, which more often than not fails. pvp in swtor has huge potential but was obviously an after thought, through much of the development. now bio ware is trying to appease the few dedicated pvps and they just do not have the resources.

 

If you wanted to see gimped pvp you should have seen LoToR's mp pvp when the game first came out. Hahaha Because the "Lore " said the good guys were supposed to win thats how pvp was. After the kids got to play there monster toons and saw how easy they died they never played on the monster side again. So MP monsters vent never had a voice under 20yrs on it. But we had fun even though we got creamed. They evened it out a little later on but PvP there was an after thought and Turbine said it.

 

I still had SWG on my comp so I loaded the emu. Took me a while to get used to it again. IMO I think both games could have been up at once. SWG different type of gamer.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Malefik

[Ansalem]

It's a lot easier to be social in a game that has an extremely low player base...when games lose popularity they lose their trolls and that is why you didnt see it as much in swg or on lotro or rift even. Those games were/are all low pop...the trolls only flock to the games with large player bases though this game is still losing a lot of players...dont worry it will soon be void of trolls when they all go back to play WOW pandapac.

[CosmicKat]

It's a lot easier to be social in a game that has an extremely low player base...when games lose popularity they lose their trolls and that is why you didnt see it as much in swg or on lotro or rift even. Those games were/are all low pop...the trolls only flock to the games with large player bases though this game is still losing a lot of players...dont worry it will soon be void of trolls when they all go back to play WOW pandapac.

 

Community "quality" of a game is usually directly proportionate to difficulty and inversely proportional to solo-ability of the game. The harder the game, and the harder it is to solo, the better the community will be. A simple game that any moron can play 100% solo has no social darwinism at play. A d-bag can be a d-bag with absolutely no repurcussions to his or her gameplay. TOR is simple and primarily a solo game, hence the juvenile and immature level of the community is larger than it would be if neither of those statements were true.

[Andryah]

It's a lot easier to be social in a game that has an extremely low player base...when games lose popularity they lose their trolls and that is why you didnt see it as much in swg or on lotro or rift even.

 

I agree, excep for the "extremely low" part. It's the nature of the MMO playerbase in the modern era. It's not about numbers per se, it's about the type of player in the player base. It is dominated by nomads, rather then homesteaders.

 

Rift is a contemporary example of this. At launch it was a huge pile-on, troll fest, and griefer play pen...both in game and on it's forums. The player base today in the launch phase of an MMO is a severe inhibitor to building any real community in the early days.

 

Rift, 9 months later and with 2/3 of the subscriber base gone, community began to form and sustain with sincerity. It's the people that stay with a game after the nomadic gankfest at launch that form actual MMO community.

 

SWTOR is just entering the phase in it's lifecycle where it can begin to build stable and interactive communities on the servers. Freemium will disrupt that some in the short term, but that wil settle out as well. The game has a strong IP which has a lot of player interest (similar to the iconic IP of LoTRO), so it will tend to retain people who enjoy the IP/Lore and enjoy playing MMOs. The nomads will move on, the settlers will stay. Community is formed by homesteaders, not nomads. Homesteaders invest in their community. Nomads don't give a rats blow hole about community.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Andryah

[Elfindreams]

I am getting a sense of damn kids get off my lawn. Not trolling, just trying to get people to open their mind a bit. I have seen very very little of the type of behavior you are describing on my server. Most folks are extremely helpful and fun to talk with.

 

Now as someone who has been online gaming since the days of BBS doors, I can tell you objectively it hasn't changed much in the attitudes. I remember BBSs dedicated to what we would now call trolling. Hell trolling and flame wars (the terms, not the activity) were coined in the days of usenet before the popularization of MMOs. I remember the Gods and Goddesses of many a MUD/MUSH get frustrated over disruptive elements of their community.

 

The big difference people are seeing is increased population. We have a selective filter as human bieng which make the stuff that annoy us float to the top of our perception. [for example how many people instantly noticed I didn't pluralize and mis-spelled beings?] With large populations even a relatively small % of for lack of a better term a-holes will be perceived as filled with a-holes because all it takes is one loud one to be seen and disrupt good community. It's always easier to disrupt than it is to build.

 

That is why /ignore exists.

 

As for the trolls/a-holes that might be reading this now, think real hard about how you are deriving your self worth.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Elfindreams

[CommunitySupport]

Hello! We appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts, but will be closing this thread as it does not directly discuss Star Wars: The Old Republic. Threads that focus on commentary about the community are generally considered off-topic. Thank you for your understanding!