Resolve Needs To Be Redesigned

[LibertySol]

First of all I know how to use resolve. But the simple fact that one must have it explained to them in order for it to work is an inherent flaw. Yes raids need to do research on bosses before engaging but a system so ingrained in PvP like Resolve shouldn't need such explaining. Also most of the people who say "you don't know how to use it" fail at arguing their point. Resolve often doesn't do a damn thing.

[TheronFett]

Stunlock a ball-carrying Juggernaut tank on the catwalks of huttball. That's how most players learn how to use resolve.

[Katsuragisama]

Stunlock a ball-carrying Juggernaut tank on the catwalks of huttball. That's how most players learn how to use resolve.

 

Do they? Because I still see plenty of people that throw out their stuns on the ball carrier, and continue to do it. Hell, I still watch people run up to the ledge when the JK/SW has the ball, instead of LoSing around the catwalk and dropping down so he cant see you and leap/charge to you. Basic **** that you would learn from PvPing in the 10-49 bracket, and plenty of idiots still do it to this day... I'm not sure most players actually learn anything. -.-;;

[Docichy]

Resolve is as busted as it has ever been. Stunned from Full to Dead in seconds, chain stunned, and then half the time it suddenly works right. I fully understand when to use the stun breaks and when not to, yet, it just seems that the continued ability to be stunned to death when sitting on a full resolve bar makes it worthless.

[Huggsnotdruggs]

But the simple fact that one must have it explained to them in order for it to work is an inherent flaw. .

 

lolol. wow. learning curves are FLAWS you hear that guys? you further went on to draw parallels from pve to pvp and how it's not the same... okies well i just did a pug where i literally had to tell the tank (who has NEVER tanked before) that his job is to keep aggro on all, or as many mobs as possible while pulling because he was literally charging into a huge group and single targeting 1 mob down without so much as targeting another mob. By your.... logic ( I dare call it that) PVE is flawed from the ground up for having to be explained.

 

tL : dR /facepalm

[Sharee]

lolol. wow. learning curves are FLAWS you hear that guys?

 

Yep, i noticed that too. Guess the instant gratification generation reached a new milestone.

[kweassa]

First of all I know how to use resolve. But the simple fact that one must have it explained to them in order for it to work is an inherent flaw. Yes raids need to do research on bosses before engaging but a system so ingrained in PvP like Resolve shouldn't need such explaining. Also most of the people who say "you don't know how to use it" fail at arguing their point. Resolve often doesn't do a damn thing.

 

Knowing how the "+" and "-" sign works, is totally different from actually applying addition and subtraction in real life.

 

People like you, who claim to "know how Resolve works", simply know the following two facts:

* You get Resolve when you are CCd

* When Resolve bar is full, you are immune from further CC

 

How you use the above fact as a combat advantage, is something different altogether.

 

Therefore, your comment is fail from the start. You don't know how it works -- in actual combat.

 

L2P.

[kweassa]

Resolve is as busted as it has ever been. Stunned from Full to Dead in seconds, chain stunned, and then half the time it suddenly works right. I fully understand when to use the stun breaks and when not to, yet, it just seems that the continued ability to be stunned to death when sitting on a full resolve bar makes it worthless.

 

1. No single class can kill someone at full HP within the duration of a single stun.

2. No single class has two stuns to chain in the first place.

3. That means, if you are being killed while stunned, you are being focused.

4. Conclusion: It's a focus-fire issue, not a resolve issue

 

Translated into simple terms: you drew attention of many enemies, did not have an exit strategy, and thus, were stunned and focused to death.

 

Is Resolve busted? No sir, your tactics are.

Edited August 14, 2012 by kweassa

[Jenzali]

But the simple fact that one must have it explained to them in order for it to work is an inherent flaw.

 

Most players figured it out immediately during their first warzone. White bar? You can't be stunned. Otherwise you can. Simple as it gets, and I haven't had any experiences of resolve not working for me and I play 5-10 warzones per day.

 

I'll tell you what's not intuitive that is used in that other game. "Okay, so there is this thing called diminishing returns, not referred to in any in-game tooltip. That means that this group of spells (which ones they are, are not referred to in any in-game tooltip either) share a certain category where they become less potent the more you use them, while other groups of spells share different categories and different diminishing return internal timers. The only way to know when they are at full strength or even usable again is to use third party addons to track internal durations."

Edited August 14, 2012 by Jenzali

[Derian]

As a Sentinel, probably the most CC susceptible class in the game, Resolve is fine. If you truly knew resolve, you wouldn't say it's useless. Once you understand resolve you can apply that to your advantage immediately. Most people are just too stupid to understand it properly. If you want proof just play a huttball, watch how quickly the ball carrier gets full resolve outside of a trap or immediate danger of being killed. It's stupid.

[Polebreaker]

2. No single class has two stuns to chain in the first place.

 

Not true. Defense guardians and the imp counterpart can spec to have 2 hard stuns. Not that they're going to be killing you during those 6 seconds... But there's probably other combos out there too.

[kweassa]

Most players figured it out immediately during their first warzone. White bar? You can't be stunned. Otherwise you can. Simple as it gets, and I haven't had any experiences of resolve not working for me and I play 5-10 warzones per day.

 

I'll tell you what's not intuitive that is used in that other game. "Okay, so there is this thing called diminishing returns, not referred to in any in-game tooltip. That means that this group of spells (which ones they are, are not referred to in any in-game tooltip either) share a certain category where they become less potent the more you use them, while other groups of spells share different categories and different diminishing return internal timers. The only way to know when they are at full strength or even usable again is to use third party addons to track internal durations."

 

...not to mention the fact that DR was designed around much longer CCs, and much more numerous CC powers given to a class. Also, with DR working, people using CC rotations for different types can actually CC people a helluva longer than people get CCd within this game. In the classic example of WoW, the break-on-damage CCs alone last for 8 seconds on the initial hit, then 4 seconds, then 2 seconds. 14 seconds of incapacitation before even the fight starts, and then an opening stun of 4 seconds, followed by a 5-bubble kidneyshot of another 3 seconds. A total of 21 seconds of control, which 1/3rd of it is hard stun.

[kweassa]

Not true. Defense guardians and the imp counterpart can spec to have 2 hard stuns. Not that they're going to be killing you during those 6 seconds... But there's probably other combos out there too.

 

They're the only classes with 2 stuns, and need at least 21 points investment into the defense/immortal tree. With the other 20 points, you can't skill upto maximize neither Focus/Rage damage, nor Vigilance/Vengeance damage.

[LibertySol]

Knowing how the "+" and "-" sign works, is totally different from actually applying addition and subtraction in real life.

 

People like you, who claim to "know how Resolve works", simply know the following two facts:

* You get Resolve when you are CCd

* When Resolve bar is full, you are immune from further CC

 

How you use the above fact as a combat advantage, is something different altogether.

 

Therefore, your comment is fail from the start. You don't know how it works -- in actual combat.

 

L2P.

 

lolol. wow. learning curves are FLAWS you hear that guys? you further went on to draw parallels from pve to pvp and how it's not the same... okies well i just did a pug where i literally had to tell the tank (who has NEVER tanked before) that his job is to keep aggro on all, or as many mobs as possible while pulling because he was literally charging into a huge group and single targeting 1 mob down without so much as targeting another mob. By your.... logic ( I dare call it that) PVE is flawed from the ground up for having to be explained.

 

tL : dR /facepalm

 

Whew! I can smell the fail from here.

 

What you both seem to fail to understand is that when a critical component of a system needs to be heavily explained that is bad design. It has nothing to do with "instant gratification". I don't think you know what instant gratification means.

 

On using it in combat to your advantage...yeah actually thanks for the terribly unneeded lesson on basic SWTOR PvP mechanics but I already know all that. The reality though is that in its current form resolve isn't an effective system. People call this game Stun Wars for a reason. And even if you know resolve inside and out that won't prevent you from getting stunned into oblivion or CCed while objectives are won.

 

Also maybe you should stop looking at it from the elitist "I am 1337 PvPer who knows all" and bring your perspective down to a player who doesn't know everything. It might help with your arguments since they're full of holes

[LenrocNewDawn]

Resolve is a quite simple system that provides visual reference to effectiveness of the crow control game. Doesn't need to more explaining then, the CC effect that fills your resolve is applied after that you are immune to CC effects for a variable period of time and roots and snares don't give resolve and are not mitigated by resolve. If that's hard to understand then ... .

Resolve is not meant to save you in 1vs4 situations and in situations like that it may prove ineffective but by no means broken, although I scored with 5 people swinging at me with my defense guardian (died shortly after, true, but the objective was met).

Before criticizing resolve, ask yourself, is TTK too short in this game or are there classes with too much of a burst still (no I'm not talking about ops/scoundrels )?

If you are playing a class with very high burst and are frustrated that you can't burn one opponent down before you are dead, due to CC, in those 1 vs X situations, then you should know that your frustration against resolve is misplaced. You shouldn't be able to do that in the first place.

On a final note, some call this game Stun Wars because they can't be bothered to play the game the way it is meant, so instead of admitting that they simply suck and need to improve they chose to blame it on the game. Not a very smart attitude if you ask me.

[kweassa]

What you both seem to fail to understand is that when a critical component of a system needs to be heavily explained that is bad design. It has nothing to do with "instant gratification". I don't think you know what instant gratification means.

 

On using it in combat to your advantage...yeah actually thanks for the terribly unneeded lesson on basic SWTOR PvP mechanics but I already know all that. The reality though is that in its current form resolve isn't an effective system. People call this game Stun Wars for a reason. And even if you know resolve inside and out that won't prevent you from getting stunned into oblivion or CCed while objectives are won.

 

Also maybe you should stop looking at it from the elitist "I am 1337 PvPer who knows all" and bring your perspective down to a player who doesn't know everything. It might help with your arguments since they're full of holes

 

If a player doesn't know everything, they should listen to those superior in skill, or more "1337" as you put, and at least try to rectify the situation by practicing more, getting better gear, and experiencing more matches.

 

Instead, the "player that doesn't know everything", quickly turns into the "player that knows nothing" by just simply waltzing into these forums and start blaming everything else that is directly or non-directly related to PvP and combat.

 

Yes, EVERYTHING, EXCEPT THEMSELVES.

 

You know how I play a new class I've never played before?

 

 

First, I just try it.

 

Then, I try to find material to see which builds are recommended, and then build up on my own skill trees by investing large sums of credits constantly to find which ones fit me best.

 

I test out each new given skill in PvP to see if it is viable, and if some skills are said to be not viable, I still try it myself to find out if its really true, and if there isn't some way which I may be able to use it in combat.

 

I make theories and scenarios on how to use certain skills better, then I try and experiment, do everything in a trial-or-error, and each success or failure adds to my experience.

 

Then I meet superior characters in either skill or gear (or both), and I get crushed. I think of ways to avoid certain situations, and then practice it again. If it seems I'm to weak or undergeared or underlevelled, I go and level up some more, get more skills, get better gear, and I try again. I do this until I reach level 50, again, and again, and again, to see what works and what does not.

 

And after it takes many months in the process of reaching lv50, getting best gear I can get, running a large number of matches to get enough experience, to feel a certain level of confidence in myself.... after all that, and I still get owned by some class which I cannot hope to beat in whatever imagineable scenario, only then it is really "PROVEN" to myself that certain situations I cannot hope to beat, and perhaps its a balance issue, or something else.

 

Elitist? Give me a break. The way I myself typically make a character and practice with it, I probably practice more than all of the whiners in this thread combined. If there is anything "elite" about the people who tell you to L2P, is the amount of practice we devote to, if not necessarily by time, at least the intensity of it, reviewing fights, making new combat theories, and coordinating yourself to practice it.

 

That allows us the understanding of the system, and how to survive it.

 

And I'm not even a good player. In terms of PvP I probably rank about average or little lower. That just shows just where the complainers are in the "ladder" -- like, the bottom.

 

How can anyone "understand" anything when they don't try to go up the ladder and see the panoramic view, the wider perspective in how PvP elements are designed?

 

So tell me again it's the system, because from my experience, and also speaking for every high-level PvP players out there, it definately ain't. Nobody can understand anything when they don't study it.

[redsovereign]

1. No single class can kill someone at full HP within the duration of a single stun.

2. No single class has two stuns to chain in the first place.

3. That means, if you are being killed while stunned, you are being focused.

4. Conclusion: It's a focus-fire issue, not a resolve issue

 

Translated into simple terms: you drew attention of many enemies, did not have an exit strategy, and thus, were stunned and focused to death.

 

Is Resolve busted? No sir, your tactics are.

 

Yes they can if you meet a character that is 1) higher level then you as a lower level toon you don't have expertise which is a big problem 2) a counter DPS class then they can infact burst you down in a matter of seconds after a stun. Example; high level marauder stuns a assassin *biff pow bam*

 

You can chain a blind and a stun. There is unfortunately "no set rules" of what is soft and hard CC in this game since some hard CC (like blind since it works like a stun) leaves you without any resolve.

 

Theres a video somwhere on youtube of a guy who does guides and stuf who plays a jedi sentinel and just demolish in PVP. You should check it cause he is on 50 and destroy other 50s in a couple of seconds.

Edited August 14, 2012 by redsovereign

[kweassa]

1) higher level then you as a lower level toon you don't have expertise which is a big problem

 

There is rarely any expertise difference in 1-49 bracket. The average health is around 12,000. You need a series of 3 conscutive hits of over 4k damage to kill someone within 4 seconds of stun at 3 skills used. Tell me again which class hits for 3 consecutive 4k hits in that amount of time at a under-50 bracket, please.

 

In the 50s bracket, the average HP rolls around 18,000 for BM, 20,000~21,000 for WH. To kill a BM geared player in 4~5 seconds, you need 3 consecutive crit hits over 6k each, to kill a WH geared player you need three hits over 7k in under 5 seconds.

 

Even against undergeared players with team buffs out the wazoo, this is clearly impossible, or only theoretically possible but realistically improbable to be considered possible... not to mention basic preparation of PvP items/gear is something a player must prepare for oneself, and hardly a "Resolve issue"

 

 

2) a counter DPS class then they can infact burst you down in a matter of seconds after a stun. Example; high level marauder stuns a assassin *biff pow bam*

 

Yes. A marauder "stuns" an assasin.. and then he goes *biff pow bam*. Please do that to me next time. I'd love to see what happens if you try to "stun" me, and then attack me during the stun time.

 

 

You can chain a blind and a stun. There is unfortunately "no set rules" of what is soft and hard CC in this game since some hard CC (like blind since it works like a stun) leaves you without any resolve.

 

(1) Chaining blind and stun meaningless in terms of combat damage.

(2) All break-on-damage CCs build resolve.

[LenrocNewDawn]

Yes they can if you meet a character that is 1) higher level then you as a lower level toon you don't have expertise which is a big problem 2) a counter DPS class then they can infact burst you down in a matter of seconds after a stun. Example; high level marauder stuns a assassin *biff pow bam*

 

You can chain a blind and a stun. There is unfortunately "no set rules" of what is soft and hard CC in this game since some hard CC (like blind since it works like a stun) leaves you without any resolve.

 

You can't be touched during a blind/mezz or it will break. If we agree that your CC breaker is on CD and they chose to mezz then stun you'll spend 12 seconds CCed but get 16 seconds of CC immunity after the stun ends (20-4) and you'll be vulnerable for 4 seconds. If they do first stun then mezz you'll be CCed for 12 seconds and gain 12 seconds of immunity after mezz ends (20-8) and also be vulnerable for 4 seconds. You prolly know that but just wanted to clarify it for people that read this and don't know it.

Also we could discuss about some classes being in need for some tweaks (from a utility or damage POV) but that's not about resolve and how it works, it's about a broader picture of how the meta game works. My personal opinion is that in general some classes peak efficiency is harder to reach then others. Classes that are easier to play will be viewed as OP and the others as UP and no I don't play mara/sent or pyro/vanguard

[redsovereign]

Yep i know that attacks will break mezz etc but I mentioned it because its a CC that you use to position yourself. It's a gap closer and a opener. You throw a mezz or blind for instance and during that period you position yourself to get of a dot and maybe a backstab before you break the CC, then you throw your stun down. Why would you use a breakable cc for anything but positioning/in some situations escaping? lol

 

The whole point of a breakable CC is to give you a burst advantage against your opponent in the start of the fight, say you use that breakable cc to fire of a free dot then followed by another dot a stun and hackign away at them.

 

ofc I exaggerated when I said "2 seconds" but bursting can go pretty fast even so fast that you dont have a chance to retaliate a lot against your attacker before you die if he knows what he does. IF he gets teh advantage because of good CC play in the start then have fun surviving when you get out of the CC

 

Btw heres the video;

 

 

Great fun

 

edit: my post was not a "QQ post" just trying to say that you are underestimating ppls skill levels in this game if you don't any of them know how to do a dangerous rotation against you using their CC and maxing their DPS output in a few secs

 

edit2: first fight in the video how long does that take 4-5 secs? Oh ye "u cant kill ppl in a matter of secs"

Edited August 14, 2012 by redsovereign

[LenrocNewDawn]

First fight lasted 11 seconds . And yes I feel the same Sentinels are OP nerf them but leave resolve alone . Kidding, relax some of the guys you fight in that video are really bad! Nice video BTW. Yes mezz works that way for a sent/mara (gap closer / upper hand for the opener) but could also be used to shut down a healer or to get some range or set-up a fight. And I do believe that they make the TTK a bit longer most of these threads would just disappear. Yeah they'd have to tweak the warzones a bit to make it viable but ..... .

 

P.S. Best use for a mezz against a sent/mara is to stop him during GBTF/UR.

Edited August 14, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn

[redsovereign]

First fight lasted 11 seconds . And yes I feel the same Sentinels are OP nerf them but leave resolve alone . Kidding, relax some of the guys you fight in that video are really bad! Nice video BTW. Yes mezz works that way for a sent/mara (gap closer / upper hand for the opener) but could also be used to shut down a healer or to get some range or set-up a fight. And I do believe that they make the TTK a bit longer most of these threads would just disappear. Yeah they'd have to tweak the warzones a bit to make it viable but ..... .

 

P.S. Best use for a mezz against a sent/mara is to stop him during GBTF/UR.

 

Ye some of them are bad but he is also (its not me) very good unf he doesnt play TOR anymore

 

I kinda feel like they should have focused on tweaking the game before doing F2P because this problems will persist if nothnng is done:rak_03:

 

edit: It's true. The first fight last for 11 seconds still that other guy totally melted. No bell to save him in the first round

Edited August 14, 2012 by redsovereign

[LarryRow]

The OP is right about one thing: we need MUCH better in-game instructions on how resolve works. For proof, just reread some of the comments in this thread.

 

Seriously, though, I do think it would help.

[BambulaGTS]

edit2: first fight in the video how long does that take 4-5 secs? Oh ye "u cant kill ppl in a matter of secs"

 

Are you freaking serious? This video belongs to times where the most fresh 50 lvls have worn 49 lvl PvE epics if they were smart, and if they were lucky with their initial bag may be 1 champ piece = no expertise at all.

 

Guy in full champ could stomp non stop such undergeared nabs.

[foxmob]

1. No single class can kill someone at full HP within the duration of a single stun.

2. No single class has two stuns to chain in the first place.

3. That means, if you are being killed while stunned, you are being focused.

4. Conclusion: It's a focus-fire issue, not a resolve issue

i agree that ppl who die within one stun are focus fired (often, frustratingly, as soon as they drop from spawn), but plenty of classes can chain two stuns together, and anyone with cybertech grenades certainly can.

 

most often (especially pre-nerf, scrapper scoundrels/concealment ops would kill their target with shoot first knockdown/stun chained with dirty kick, allowing a total of 4 attacks before the target can even pop a dcd. however, the targets that dropped 100% in that time would have been at a gear disadvantage (mostly centurian vs. mostly champion). in 1.3 wz's, a concealment op can still knock me down to ~50% on a fully geared vanguard before I have the opportunity to neural surge or pop shield.

 

to be more constructive, I do think there needs to be a couple seconds immunity when one uses his breaker. every class has a breaker. i'm thinking of hb here, but i have the ball. i have to cross a fire b/c no teammates are in front. I've saved my breaker. hell, i've even cryo'd a nearby mara. so I cross the fire. i'm immediately stunned. I break it. the instant i break it, i'm stunned again. fire. death. that's ********. i know some wiseass will say L2P. w/e. it's ********.