What F2P Really does to a game..!!

[supafreak]

Even if certain classes and buffs, and items require a sub that doesnt really change anything. Dont play F2P and expect a full game. just like you wouldnt play a trial and expect a full game. Just continue ur sub, a measly 14.99 and you'll have more than enough tokens and it wont really affect you at all. The only thing F2p will hurt is those who dont want to sub, but want everything.

I dont endorse pay to win BUT I do endorse pay to play (the full game)

[Draekos]

3 hours a day a few days a week is more than sufficient, just play different MMOs on different days. And with f2p you don't have to maintain multiple subs. Last 10 years I have been working, raising a family and playing MMOs.

 

Exactly. With Lotro I embraced the premium model and purchased all the expansions, instances, skirmishes and a bunch of quality of life stuff(shared storage, the new barter wallet upgrade, etc.). I sub to SWTOR because I enjoy the game and the pvp especially(the only thing in miss in LOTRO as a non subscriber), but drop in to LOTRO a few times a week. When Rohan comes out I will likely be more active there and less here, but i will still play both.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Draekos

[BraxKedren]

LOTRO suffered a death penalty and Store scrolls removed that, each month new items were added that WERE needed to perform in the game on a daily basis. Players monthly tokens were consumed in minutes because of these items and sooner rather than later the sub became nothing more than a gimmick with the Tokens being spent so fast it was like they didnt exist.

 

I think you have Allods mixed up with Lotro. If you have ever played Lotro to max level, the most you would want to pay for for your character is the additional Traits to max them out completely, but even that isn't need to raid in the game.

 

So many are so down on the F2P method simply because you are afraid of change or can't fathom how a majority of players like to spend more on their character(s) that doesn't include end-game raiding for the absolute best or most rare items in the game.

 

I've known Lotro players who screamed and moaned about that game going F2P and bemoaned how it was going to ruin the game and how it was on it's death bed...yet here it is getting ready to release it's SECOND MAJOR EXPANSION with MORE CONTENT than the launch had, and with an even better mounted combat system.

 

The store sells fluff for the most part, there is NOTHING that HAS TO BE BOUGHT to be effective in the game. So far, it looks like Swtor is following the best example of the F2P model out there to date. For this I salute them in progressive thinking and, as a business, knowing what it takes to keep the game from sinking completely and going in another route that varies from the norm and has the potential to be very profitable for them to come.

[aristein]

I feel like I have been gut punched. I was so excited about this game and have been playing everyday now for 3 weeks and having a blast. Now the f2p announcement. And, all the way to 50 so they are basically giving up on subs. This game is great because of the high quality not because it is better than all the other mmo's out there. The only thing it really has is fantastic immersion, story, and high quality development (everything looks, sounds, and feels great). That is about it. How are they supposed to maintain that withouy subscriptions? And, what kind of support does a game have if the only people would will play it are the ones that can play for free? Little kids and people that don't care about the game at all mostly.

 

F2p is just a game changer, and they needed to expand and improve, not change swtor. It won't be the same game, nor the same players a year from now . I am so dissappointed that I can't even manage to log in...and that from someone who started only 3 weeks ago and was having a blast playing.

Edited August 2, 2012 by aristein

[Leggomy]

I think you have Allods mixed up with Lotro. If you have ever played Lotro to max level, the most you would want to pay for for your character is the additional Traits to max them out completely, but even that isn't need to raid in the game.

 

So many are so down on the F2P method simply because you are afraid of change or can't fathom how a majority of players like to spend more on their character(s) that doesn't include end-game raiding for the absolute best or most rare items in the game.

 

I've known Lotro players who screamed and moaned about that game going F2P and bemoaned how it was going to ruin the game and how it was on it's death bed...yet here it is getting ready to release it's SECOND MAJOR EXPANSION with MORE CONTENT than the launch had, and with an even better mounted combat system.

 

The store sells fluff for the most part, there is NOTHING that HAS TO BE BOUGHT to be effective in the game. So far, it looks like Swtor is following the best example of the F2P model out there to date. For this I salute them in progressive thinking and, as a business, knowing what it takes to keep the game from sinking completely and going in another route that varies from the norm and has the potential to be very profitable for them to come.

 

Hes talking about dread which can easily be taken off with a minstrel or a +5 hope token. Noone ever buys the dread removal from the store. Whats the point when you can pay a few silver for the tokens or get it removed free by the mini in your party.

[inrsx]

As opposed to the ray of sunshine that ToR and WoW have?

 

The community now is multiple times better than the f2p community. HUEHUEHUE gib monie pls i repot u

[BraxKedren]

Hes talking about dread which can easily be taken off with a minstrel or a +5 hope token. Noone ever buys the dread removal from the store. Whats the point when you can pay a few silver for the tokens or get it removed free by the mini in your party.

 

Isn't there a healer in towns that cures this as well?

 

I know this was part of the original game design and it wasn't introduced with the F2P conversion.

[Nippon]

I've known Lotro players who screamed and moaned about that game going F2P and bemoaned how it was going to ruin the game and how it was on it's death bed...yet here it is getting ready to release it's SECOND MAJOR EXPANSION with MORE CONTENT than the launch had, and with an even better mounted combat system.

 

Sorry are you referring to the NEW content that is basically identical to the previous content, aside from you can attack on horses, its the same, yes....Ok cool.

 

So your happy to have the same tripe pumped out to you with a varied skin and thats what you call development.

 

Glad we are not on the same page tbh.

[BraxKedren]

Sorry are you referring to the NEW content that is basically identical to the previous content, aside from you can attack on horses, its the same, yes....Ok cool.

 

So your happy to have the same tripe pumped out to you with a varied skin and thats what you call development.

 

Glad we are not on the same page tbh.

 

So wait, the Mists of Pandara expansion you are ready to jump back into, that was just announced DOESN'T HAVE ANY END GAME RAIDS IN AT LAUNCH, isn't the same type of content that the earlier parts of the game was?

 

I'm glad we aren't on the same page either because if we were, it be stuck in the kiddie book you are reading and not the grown up book that long time gamers have been reading and understanding for awhile now.

[Alec_Fortescue]

And I am so afraid of the prices in the Cash Shop being comparable with those from Battlefield Heroes... 10 quid for few cosmetic items... Really?

[Nippon]

So wait, the Mists of Pandara expansion you are ready to jump back into, that was just announced DOESN'T HAVE ANY END GAME RAIDS IN AT LAUNCH, isn't the same type of content that the earlier parts of the game was?

 

I'm glad we aren't on the same page either because if we were, it be stuck in the kiddie book you are reading and not the grown up book that long time gamers have been reading and understanding for awhile now.

 

I never played WOW, i have a brain and saw it for what it is, same with this F2P !!

[warultima]

And I am so afraid of the prices in the Cash Shop being comparable with those from Battlefield Heroes... 10 quid for few cosmetic items... Really?

 

Tera is not even F2P they are selling a set of cosmetic armor skin for ~10 USD per set and $25 per mount.

Edited August 2, 2012 by warultima

[Daeada]

So your happy to have the same tripe pumped out to you with a varied skin and thats what you call development.

 

Glad we are not on the same page tbh.

 

Welcome to the world of MMOs. No developer completely rehauls their game with every expansion.

 

Also, mounted combat is much different than normal combat in LotRO, It is closer to jousting than anything else. There are plenty of videos that show this, so don't knock something for being "exactly the same" when it is extremely different.

[Evil_Santa]

I have one last question for you. If LOTRO is so great, are you still playing it now ?? If not, why not.

 

http://i.imgur.com/IOKXg.jpg

 

Earned that during beta, had a lifetime sub to the game and played it religiously for years.

 

Once F2P was announced, i was invited into the beta and spent about 1 hour testing the F2P beta. The first thing that struck me is that quest rewards were placed above the quest text, whereas for years they were at the bottom of the quest text. This indicated that the game developers were changing the focus of the game from LOTR lore, to shiney things. I sold my account and haven't looked back.

 

When a game has 500k subs paying $15/month, that's a monthly revenue of 7.5 million dollars, which is enough to maintain the operations of a company with 150 employees, and produce plenty of new content for their subscribers.

 

F2P - no matter how it's sparkled up by a marketing team - is nickle and diming customers for biggest profit margin a game can make. To me, this shows that a company's resources will be more focused on how-to make money, then how-to make a good game.

 

We've already seen this in SWTOR, as if F2P is coming "in the Fall" then it's a month or two away from being released. Those that were playing LOTRO know that it took Turbine almost six months to convert LOTRO to F2P - and that is with already having the experience of doing it with the same engine and DDO. This means that EA/BW have been diverting development resources to converting SWTOR to F2P for awhile now. I would be willing to bet that's the reason RWZs were pulled at the last minute in 1.2 - to use them as the "Feature" for the 1.3 release - and also why 1.3 was such a small update. When the game launched we saw 1.1 a month after launch, then a few minor tweaks/updates until 1.2 was released with a sizable content update, and a couple of bug fix patches until 1.3 came out. 1.3 was full of nothing. It had ranked wzs, the lfg tool and minor balance changes, because instead of listening to their customers and focusing on their customer's desires, the company focused on how-to maximize profits with the least amount of work possible.

 

I'm done with SWTOR - my sub's up in 2 weeks, and i'll never look back. It's really a shame too as this game had a wealth of potential 8 months ago, and if the company had listened to their customers, listened to feedback from the PTS, and cared about providing a excellent game - it would have 3+ million subscribers right now.

[Macabakur]

we'll see man.. I understand your cynicism on this, but I gotta, as you surmised yourself, hope you're dead wrong

[Leggomy]

Wow so you left lotro because they changed where the quest rewards were? Thats crazy lol. What company could ever make a fickle person like that happy. Quit on a whim lol.

[dandamanno]

The first thing that struck me is that quest rewards were placed above the quest text, whereas for years they were at the bottom of the quest text... I sold my account and haven't looked back.

 

I hope you are just exagerating and judged the game on its content, not where in a text box the loot icons are placed. You do realize how unreasonable that sounds?

Edited August 2, 2012 by dandamanno

[The_Butler]

I've known Lotro players who screamed and moaned about that game going F2P and bemoaned how it was going to ruin the game and how it was on it's death bed...yet here it is getting ready to release it's SECOND MAJOR EXPANSION with MORE CONTENT than the launch had, and with an even better mounted combat system.

 

Not sure where you were going with this.

 

RoR is Lotros FOURTH Major Expansion Pack - Mines of Moria, Siege of Mirkwood, Rise of Isengard are the other three. Perhaps you didn't notice that SoM and RoI were MAJOR expansion packs (e.g. paid for ones), because they were a bit light of conent.

 

I guess you could be saying RoR is the Second expac since going F2P but then considering that the content provided by Rise of Isengard used to be considered a free content update rather than an expansion that's hardly something to brag about!

 

As to how you could even compare RoR content to Lotro Vanilla is mind boggling. RoR (the new expac) is one zone which although big is not that full because of the moutned combat with no new instances or raids on release.

 

Christ even SoM was released with a raid and instance cluster as well as a new game mechanic.

 

And if you think Lotro has had MORE content since it went F2P then you obviously weren't around between Vanilla and Launch where Turbine release 4 major zones (Evendim, Goblin Town, Forochel and Eregion), major game systems such as player owned housing and hobby system and regular Epic updates (Class quests) which often contained small pockets of new areas. Then they released MoM expansion pack which contained oodles of content. Then it all went quiet whilst they were preparing for F2P and since F2P has never come close to pushing out the same amount of new content. Even worse each expansion pack has become smaller and smaller.

 

So Lotro even had a "golden age" under the subsription model where content was king. SW:ToR hasn't even had this!

Edited August 2, 2012 by The_Butler

[Jeffor]

LOL you never played LOTRO then...!!

 

You think SWTOR is a grind, personally i find it easy, wait till F2P and then you will learn what a grind really is. !!

 

It's only a grind if you make it that way. As I stated I play LOTRO successfully at end game and I grind nothing-nada. I get everything I need by playing the game. LOTRO went F2P simply because they saw how successful it was with DDO. Everyone predicted gloom and doom before it came out yet, aside from LOTRO store icons on the UI the game changed very little for subscribers like me. As it often goes in life things are what you make of them. You see a grind, I see game play. All MMOs are like this. You like it or you don't.

[Jeffor]

Not sure where you were going with this.

 

RoR is Lotros FOURTH Major Expansion Pack - Mines of Moria, Siege of Mirkwood, Rise of Isengard are the other three. Perhaps you didn't notice that SoM and RoI were MAJOR expansion packs (e.g. paid for ones), because they were a bit light of conent.

 

I guess you could be saying RoR is the Second expac since going F2P but then considering that the content provided by Rise of Isengard used to be considered a free content update rather than an expansion that's hardly something to brag about!

 

As to how you could even compare RoR content to Lotro Vanilla is mind boggling. RoR (the new expac) is one zone which although big is not that full because of the moutned combat with no new instances or raids on release.

 

Christ even SoM was released with a raid and instance cluster as well as a new game mechanic.

 

And if you think Lotro has had MORE content since it went F2P then you obviously weren't around between Vanilla and Launch where Turbine release 4 major zones (Evendim, Goblin Town, Forochel and Eregion), major game systems such as player owned housing and hobby system and regular Epic updates (Class quests) which often contained small pockets of new areas. Then they released MoM expansion pack which contained oodles of content. Then it all went quiet whilst they were preparing for F2P and since F2P has never come close to pushing out the same amount of new content. Even worse each expansion pack has become smaller and smaller.

 

So Lotro even had a "golden age" under the subsription model where content was king. SW:ToR hasn't even had this!

RoR isn't even out yet. How do you know if it's light on content or not?

 

Anyway there is so much misinformation in your post I won't know what to even address. I mean Goblin Town a major zone? Also, Shadows of Angmar LOTRO (Vanilla) was released with zero raids as well. This has been the standard procedure for LOTRO. They release an expansion with some light end-game content and add to that as the expansion ages. It was the same with Moria (released with single boss lair raid only) and RoI (Draigoch only). I'm not sure why people are still suprised by this.

 

I will close by saying that LOTRO F2P also brought many new players to the game who promptly subbed to the game. Overall it was good for the game. MMOs are changing and this is one of those changes.

[AidenCast]

And if you think Lotro has had MORE content since it went F2P then you obviously weren't around between Vanilla and Launch where Turbine release 4 major zones (Evendim, Goblin Town, Forochel and Eregion), major game systems such as player owned housing and hobby system and regular Epic updates (Class quests) which often contained small pockets of new areas.

 

Just for the sake of impartiality I think Evendim was meant to be in at launch but was held back to Book 9 for polishing (may be wrong). Apart from that I'd say you are spot on, people claiming content delivery is at its best and fastest ever under F2P clearly weren't around during the SoA to MoM era. Hell, even the epic story has descended into farce. Volume 1 with Mordirith and Amarthiel as the villans was an excellent storyline. By Volume 3 I had could to the conclusion that the Free People (especially the Rangers and Rohirrim) are so incredibly stupid they really deserve everything they get.

After working overseas I came back and had a bash at RoI with my LM 65, I lasted to 67 (new cap was 75) before giving up due to a combination of terrible lag and some of the most banal and tedious MMO quests ever (and thats saying something). I really struggle to see how anyone who played back in SoA can trumpet the F2P era as some form of "Golden Age". To me the game had been in serious decline from SoM onwards and F2P was the final nail in the coffin for me.

[Eillack]

I'm Abraham Lincoln and I endorse the opening post.

 

Don't ever abuse the name of that hero. Leave his name out of all this ****.

 

------------------------------------

 

OP, you forgot to add Star Trek Online's P2W convertion.

[AidenCast]

RoR isn't even out yet. How do you know if it's light on content or not?

 

Anyway there is so much misinformation in your post I won't know what to even address. I mean Goblin Town a major zone? Also, Shadows of Angmar LOTRO (Vanilla) was released with zero raids as well. This has been the standard procedure for LOTRO. They release an expansion with some light end-game content and add to that as the expansion ages. It was the same with Moria (released with single boss lair raid only) and RoI (Draigoch only). I'm not sure why people are still suprised by this.

 

I will close by saying that LOTRO F2P also brought many new players to the game who promptly subbed to the game. Overall it was good for the game. MMOs are changing and this is one of those changes.

 

Goblin Town came with the eastern side of the current Misty Mountains map as well, so yes I would say that combined there is an argument to say this was a major zone. Also even though it launched with no raid SoA did launch with 2 massive 6 man instances at level cap (Carn Dum and Urugarth) which in my opinion were better designed than most MMO raids. MoM launched with six 6 mans (7 if you include the non level cap Forgotten Treasury) as well as the Watcher. SoM launched with 3 mans, one 6 man and imo a pretty terrible raid. RoI launced with a raid that was supposed to be released earlier in the year as part of the anniversary update and RoR as far as we know no instances at all so there is definitely an argument that while Turbine were never exactly brilliant at getting end game out on time they have been getting worse over the years and it has declined even further under F2P.

[Ashu-ri]

Just for the sake of impartiality I think Evendim was meant to be in at launch but was held back to Book 9 for polishing (may be wrong). Apart from that I'd say you are spot on, people claiming content delivery is at its best and fastest ever under F2P clearly weren't around during the SoA to MoM era. Hell, even the epic story has descended into farce. Volume 1 with Mordirith and Amarthiel as the villans was an excellent storyline. By Volume 3 I had could to the conclusion that the Free People (especially the Rangers and Rohirrim) are so incredibly stupid they really deserve everything they get.

After working overseas I came back and had a bash at RoI with my LM 65, I lasted to 67 (new cap was 75) before giving up due to a combination of terrible lag and some of the most banal and tedious MMO quests ever (and thats saying something). I really struggle to see how anyone who played back in SoA can trumpet the F2P era as some form of "Golden Age". To me the game had been in serious decline from SoM onwards and F2P was the final nail in the coffin for me.

 

Evendim was meant to be in at launch, and I think Forchel was too. Lothlorien was meant to be in MoM, but wasn't done in time.

[Ashu-ri]

Yeah. Freemium model in LoTRO actually benefited the VIP members (subscribers) a lot. They effectively got a discount on their subscription while the freepers got milked to death on Tubine Points. Smart freepers realized this early on and converted to VIP if they were going to play the game for the long haul. And lifetimers made out like bandits on LoTRO, and still do today.

 

Actually, it was stated on the forums by people who figured it up, and premiums knew exactly how many TP's they would need to unlock ALL content. Then a lot waited for sales, and they had everything, while VIP's were considered to be "renting" content. The premiums had ownership of it. I have a lifetime membership - so my choice was made for me. But there were certain perks that came with subbing that I wouldn't have chosen to do without - other than the 500 TP per month.