Feeling a little overwhelmed when I play Sentinel, need help!

[Toogeloo]

I have played 7 of the 8 mirrors so far (4 on the Empire, 3 on the Republic), Sentinel being the last one to play to go 8 for 8. The DPS classes I have played are Arsenal Mercenary, Vengeance Juggernaut, Balance Sage, Sharpshooter Gunslinger, and Assault Vanguard. None of them (and I really mean none of them) have made me feel as overwhelmed as I do when I try playing the Sentinel, and I can't tell if I am just doing it wrong.

 

First off, I don't use special peripherals like Naga Mouse or special keyboards. I have a 2 button Mouse and a 10 dollar cheapo keyboard. In all the DPS classes I have played prior, rotations or priorities have seemed fairly uncomplicated and relaxed. I am constantly one of the top DPS in my Raiding guild when I play my DPS classes, and I am always top when I play my Sage (to the point that I have to be guarded regularly).

 

I am now playing Sentinel to finish my 8th and final story and experience the last Advanced Class I haven't had experience with. I am only level 21 and I already feel like I am getting overwhelmed with abilities and knowing full well I still have more to come. I haven't experienced as many abilities at this stage of leveling a character as I had with any other character. I feel like I have to pop Zen and Rebuke on Cooldown, and spend the rest of fights just popping whatever isn't on cooldown, from the stock of Strike, Zealous Strike, Slash, Blade Storm, Master Strike, Force Leap, Cauterize, and Overload Saber. Only level 21, and I already have a full Action Bar and a half filled with abilities. When I am fighting, I feel like I could just randomly push buttons and still perform the same as if I tried having an actual plan going into a fight.

 

 

 

Is this normal lol? Why do I feel so overwhelmed on this final class after all these other dps classes I have played. I figured it would be similar to Vengeance Juggernaut at the very least, but even they don't have the sheer number of abilities that I feel like I need to worry about on the Sentinel. What am I doing wrong?

[Ryat]

Sentinel/Marauder is the most overwhelming of the classes.

First, DON'T PANIC.

Second, learn what works best for which ever tree you use. Example Bladestorm is awesome with the Combat tree but not Watchman. Flip side for Cauterize. So pick a tree and stick with it and its useful abilities.

Third, there are rotations to use. I go Watchman so I will give you one for that.

Zealous Leap - Overload Sabers (do while in mid jump, they are off GC) - Zealous Strike - Slash (Merciless Slash when you get it) - Cauterize - Master Strike (I like to use Force Stasis when I get it) then you should be ready to do again. Keep your burns (Overload Sabers and Cauterize) going at all times. Pop your Zen when you get it while being in Juyo form to give yourself heals and crits.

Combat runs differently.

[AidanLightwalker]

The sentinel is like a guitar. One of the easest musical instruments to play, one of the hardest to master. This is one of the classes people referr to when they say under performs for the casual player but is leathal in the right hands. I'm so glad I started here in beta cause every class after my sentinel has been a cake walk.

[Stealios]

Sentinel/Marauder is the most overwhelming of the classes.

First, DON'T PANIC.

Second, learn what works best for which ever tree you use. Example Bladestorm is awesome with the Combat tree but not Watchman. Flip side for Cauterize. So pick a tree and stick with it and its useful abilities.

Third, there are rotations to use. I go Watchman so I will give you one for that.

Zealous Leap - Overload Sabers (do while in mid jump, they are off GC) - Zealous Strike - Slash (Merciless Slash when you get it) - Cauterize - Master Strike (I like to use Force Stasis when I get it) then you should be ready to do again. Keep your burns (Overload Sabers and Cauterize) going at all times. Pop your Zen when you get it while being in Juyo form to give yourself heals and crits.

Combat runs differently.

 

 

One minor thing: you want to use cauterize before your merciless slash. Since merc slash can reset the cooldown of cauterize it would be a waste to use it before cauterize.

[SalBasss]

One minor thing: you want to use cauterize before your merciless slash. Since merc slash can reset the cooldown of cauterize it would be a waste to use it before cauterize.

 

This. Absolutely.

[Dissentus]

Sentinel/Marauder is the most overwhelming of the classes.

First, DON'T PANIC.

Second, learn what works best for which ever tree you use. Example Bladestorm is awesome with the Combat tree but not Watchman. Flip side for Cauterize. So pick a tree and stick with it and its useful abilities.

Third, there are rotations to use. I go Watchman so I will give you one for that.

Zealous Leap - Overload Sabers (do while in mid jump, they are off GC) - Zealous Strike - Slash (Merciless Slash when you get it) - Cauterize - Master Strike (I like to use Force Stasis when I get it) then you should be ready to do again. Keep your burns (Overload Sabers and Cauterize) going at all times. Pop your Zen when you get it while being in Juyo form to give yourself heals and crits.

Combat runs differently.

 

I generally agree with this, though even as Combat I still have Cauterize on my bar to use, at least for pvp in certain situations. Bladestorm is less useful for Watchman though. Riposte is the one move I find myself never using, because on that rare chance it lights up, I don't have enough rage/focus to work it in a rotation, where I could just save it for something more useful. When the stars align, it's nice to have, but I certainly wouldn't miss it if I happened to remove it from my bar.

[thebigdoubleu]

In terms of key binds, I suggest taking a look at Taugrim's guide. You can google "Taugrim's keybinding guide" and it should be one of the first few results. He uses Rift as his example, but he labels his keys in general MMO terms that is easily applicable to SWTOR, WoW, LOTRO etc etc (e.g. charge, debuff, defence buff, openers, etc.).

 

There's a lot of abilities for the Sentinel, so keybinding is important to your success. He doesn't use any fancy gaming keyboard/mouse. I used a modified variant of his suggestions using an ergonomic keyboard and a standard 2 button + mousewheel mouse quite effectively, so it's certainly doable.

[Dissentus]

In terms of key binds, I suggest taking a look at Taugrim's guide. You can google "Taugrim's keybinding guide" and it should be one of the first few results. He uses Rift as his example, but he labels his keys in general MMO terms that is easily applicable to SWTOR, WoW, LOTRO etc etc (e.g. charge, debuff, defence buff, openers, etc.).

 

There's a lot of abilities for the Sentinel, so keybinding is important to your success. He doesn't use any fancy gaming keyboard/mouse. I used a modified variant of his suggestions using an ergonomic keyboard and a standard 2 button + mousewheel mouse quite effectively, so it's certainly doable.

 

This is good advice and Taugrim has some great info, but keybinds come down to personal preference at the end of the day. If you are weening yourself off of clicking, some people will tell you to dive right in and map everything, but I found the best process for this when I first started was to add a couple of your main used attacks first, then expand slowly to other keys from there once you are comfortable. Each person is different in how they feel about what abilities are where; and some people are better at adjusting those fingers to certain keys.

 

Of course, I'm lazy and bought a naga, but I still prefer to use alt and shift mods for certain stuff and qertf for my CC abilities, as I do in all games. The best thing you can do is keep the same formula for every single character you play. Always put snare/defensive/CCbreak/etc. on the same keys, regardless of character and game and you will do well once you are used to it. Crafting that initial layout will take time, but once it's there, you will be comfortable regardless of what you play and adding keys for a more complex class will be easier to adjust to.

[Toogeloo]

My frustration doesn't come from keybinds, it's just the overwhelming amount of abilities I figure I need to keep at the ready.

 

I mean you have to consider, I am coming from DPS specs like Arsenal Merc, Balance Sage, and Assault Vanguard. You hardly need more than 12 things EVER in those specs at level 50. I'm mid 20s and I have that already.

 

Just at 23 alone, I have:

2 Different Centering consumers

Force Leap

2 Different Force Generators

4 Different Force Consumers

Master Strike

Force Sweep

Interrupt

2 Diffferent Defensive abilities

 

...and I know that I still have at least one more Centering Consumer, 1-2 more Force Consumers, and a couple DPS cooldowns still coming at the very least. Compared to my previous DPS classes, this is by and large the most complicated in making sure I get my rotations right in order to do a good job, which at the moment I know I am not (I only average ~45k damage in WZs currently while my Sage and Vanguard were almost always on top and over 100k regularly while leveling).

[Kawiki]

My frustration doesn't come from keybinds, it's just the overwhelming amount of abilities I figure I need to keep at the ready.

 

I mean you have to consider, I am coming from DPS specs like Arsenal Merc, Balance Sage, and Assault Vanguard. You hardly need more than 12 things EVER in those specs at level 50. I'm mid 20s and I have that already.

 

Just at 23 alone, I have:

2 Different Centering consumers

Force Leap

2 Different Force Generators

4 Different Force Consumers

Master Strike

Force Sweep

Interrupt

2 Diffferent Defensive abilities

 

...and I know that I still have at least one more Centering Consumer, 1-2 more Force Consumers, and a couple DPS cooldowns still coming at the very least. Compared to my previous DPS classes, this is by and large the most complicated in making sure I get my rotations right in order to do a good job, which at the moment I know I am not (I only average ~45k damage in WZs currently while my Sage and Vanguard were almost always on top and over 100k regularly while leveling).

 

if keybinds are not a problem (though I highly recommend the naga) and you are not a keyboard turner then all I can say is don't worry about what is coming and focus on what you have.

 

When learning a new build/class, I go through a little process everytime I am waiting for the WZ to start. I look at each ability on my hot bars and make sure I know the key its bound too and think of a situation I can use it in. Before long it becomes second nature to me and find I automagically start using all abilities.

 

Also, on my sent I found when I was getting "stuck" or having a mental block that Master Strike was a good out. it gives you moment to plan what you want to do next.

 

For instance: Pacify is bound to the 3 key on my Naga, I should use this on everyone in a 1v1 except sorcs. Also if may be good to cast it on someone who is beating on my healer.

 

After I get the basics use down then I'll start to get more and more detailed like use Pacify when X Class is Casting X ability. e.g. use it on a Sniper when I expect him to use his knockback root and I don't have camo up.

[Cavad]

My frustration doesn't come from keybinds, it's just the overwhelming amount of abilities I figure I need to keep at the ready.

 

I mean you have to consider, I am coming from DPS specs like Arsenal Merc, Balance Sage, and Assault Vanguard. You hardly need more than 12 things EVER in those specs at level 50. I'm mid 20s and I have that already.

 

Just at 23 alone, I have:

2 Different Centering consumers

Force Leap

2 Different Force Generators

4 Different Force Consumers

Master Strike

Force Sweep

Interrupt

2 Diffferent Defensive abilities

 

...and I know that I still have at least one more Centering Consumer, 1-2 more Force Consumers, and a couple DPS cooldowns still coming at the very least. Compared to my previous DPS classes, this is by and large the most complicated in making sure I get my rotations right in order to do a good job, which at the moment I know I am not (I only average ~45k damage in WZs currently while my Sage and Vanguard were almost always on top and over 100k regularly while leveling).

 

 

 

I've been playing pvp in mmos competitively for going on 7 years now. The best advice I can give you is just keep on playing. Don't think about what keys to press, just keep your keybinds consistent, (for instance my biggest hitter is usually 5 on melee classes, and my aoe is usually e). The more you play the more it becomes muscle memory.

 

 

Muscle memory is key. If you ever need to look at your bars to see what is keybound to whatever, you'll never have success. It needs to be automatic, and it only becomes automatic if you stop thinking and just play.

 

 

For playing multiple classes like you do, it also helps if you group your abilities on your bars efficiently. For example, I always keep my heals on the left side of the bottom bar, I always keep my defensive cool downs to the right side of the bottom bar. I keep non essential stuff on the left bar, and my utility on the right side of my main bar.

 

It really helps if you play multiple classes like we do, if your stun break is in the same position on all your classes. That way, instead of searching for it, you always know where to glance to check its cd, even when playing different characters.

 

 

 

Sentinel is one of those classes that's just going to click, it will be awkward one hour, then it will start to flow the next.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Cavad

[Toogeloo]

Sentinel is one of those classes that's just going to click, it will be awkward one hour, then it will start to flow the next.

This is probably the answer I am most looking to.

 

I don't think people understood what I was getting at when I said I was overwhelmed by the number of abilities.

 

 

Taking my Balance Sage as an example since it's my best 50 DPS class at the moment...

 

I have 6 attacks... that's it, just 6.

-Force in Balance

-Weaken Mind

-Mind Crush

-Telekinetic Throw

-Project

-Forcequake (used extremely rarely)

 

I have 2 other "situational" attacks in my Knockback and my Stun, an Interrupt, my Bubble, and my Force Potency. So all in all... 12 total abilities I use on a consistent enough basis that I ever have to consider using. I have like 5 other abilities, like Force Speed, Rescue, Noble Sacrifice, Force Lift, and Mind Cloud that I use so inconsistently that they generally are an after-thought and can be on a bar out on the side of my screen.

 

So all in all... 12 abilities... that's it. I only have to have one hot bar worth of actions worth worrying about. I only have to check to see if I have a proc up before casting my Mind Crush, and I only have to keep an eye on the bosses debuff from time to time to see if Weaken Mind is falling off him.

 

 

...or consider my Arsenal Merc.

 

I have:

-Rapid Shot

-Tracer Missile

-Heatseeker Missile

-Unload

-Rail Shot

-Death from Above

 

Then I have 3 Cooldown abilities for maximum dps and heat management, 2 Defensive Cooldowns, and a couple "situational" abilities like knockback. Again... everything I need to worry about can fit in one Action Bar.

 

 

 

Sentinel...

3 Centering Consumers that I know of (Zen, Trancendence, Inspiration)

5 Defensive Cooldowns that I know of (Rebuke, Saber Ward, Pacify, Force Camo, Guarded by Force)

Valorous Call

Force Leap

Zealous Strike

Strike

Master Strike

~3-4 Focus Consuming abilities

Interrupt

 

 

Maybe I should clarify that it's not so much the Focus Generators or the Focus Consumers that confuse me... I can get a general rotation down. I keep my interrupts always bound to the same key, so that's never an issue. But knowing when I should be consuming my Centering, hell, even paying attention to the 30 stacks of Centering is a pain in the butt (I almost always seem to sit on it not knowing if I should be waiting to use it on Trans, or if I should blow it on Zen, or sometimes not even paying attention to how long I've had it). But just from the number of abilities I need to be ready to pop at any time (5! 5 Defensive Cooldowns for goodness sake), that is where I feel overwhelmed. I'm almost at 2 full hot bars worth of abilities at the moment, and I'm not even 30 yet.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Toogeloo

[Cavad]

For now, stick to watchman. Its much easier to put out numbers than combat. Combat you have to keep track of several buffs, when ataru procs, and opportune strike in addition to everything else you normally have to do as a sentinel. As watchman, the only things you need to do is overload saber > cauterize, always leave enough focus for merciless slash, master strike when appropriate, and hit zen whenever you have bleeds on your target. If you cant do any of those things I just listed (for whatever reason), hit zealous strike or strike.

 

 

As for staying alive, always hit rebuke when something even looks at you (its also a focus generator), saber ward early, and always save your medpack for after guarded by the force.

 

 

 

Those 9 or so things aren't that demanding, just have to commit it to muscle memory. Combat, is a little different.

[stuffystuffs]

Compared to my previous DPS classes, this is by and large the most complicated in making sure I get my rotations right in order to do a good job, which at the moment I know I am not (I only average ~45k damage in WZs currently while my Sage and Vanguard were almost always on top and over 100k regularly while leveling).

 

I had a similar experience playing Sentinel for the first time (I was coming off a Sniper).

 

It seemed like I could do tons of damage in a WZ with a Sniper at lvls 10-19 even, but it took awhile to get over 100k with a Sent ( I started PVP'ing around lvl 10...it was rough).

 

It will come eventually, especially when you get more defensive cooldowns. I think part of my problem starting out as as Sent was that I'd die a lot (no dps when dead). Part of that was leaping into a crowd of enemy players all gung ho (a l2p issue) and getting decimated and part was lacking a few of the defensive cooldowns like Force Camo and GbtF. I'm at lvl 40 now (Watchman spec) and things are pretty awesome...I enjoy the increased survivability compared to my Sniper for instance.

[Auraleus]

I felt the same way when I first started playing; eventually you get the feel as for which abilities you need for pve, pvp, spec. Really there aren't that many you use.... PvE Combat I have found to be the easiest because it is pretty much just Zealous -> Precision -> Rush -> Storm -> Rush dump till storm is back up / Riposte.

 

The reason you feel that way is because when you look at Sentinel, we have a ton of PvP oriented abilities, a ton of PvE oriented abilities, a DoT oriented spec with abilities, a DD oriented spec with abilities, an AoE oriented spec with abilities.... you just look up and realize you are swimming in 60 different action buttons that you feel like you have to have at the ready at all times.

 

But that isn't the case; depending on if you are doing PvE or PvP and what your spec is, you are really only going to be using 4-6 core abilities of the 5,000,000 at your disposal like other classes.

 

At least that has been my experience.

[iTryHard]

I started feeling this way about level 40 because Merciless Slash really complicated things, you mentioned being confused about which centering consumer to use when sitting on 30 stacks of centering. I'd say, unless you're in focus tree, hit Zen, only time I used Transcendence while leveling was if I had 30 centering after a battle and wanted to run faster In focus tree probably I'd go with Inspiration, but not sure really.... Key thing is, keep your focus consumers in a central place that you find easy and natural to look at. Lots of times I don't even look at my centering but when Zen's icon lights up showing I can use it, I set up my burns on the target and pop Zen. That's also another thing, before using Zen, set your burst up, in Combat pool focus to Slash spam, and in Watchman, get your burns on your target and immediately pop Zen, the rotation can be... Tricky sometimes but it's mostly just priority and planning ahead (i.e. getting enough Focus for your next Merciless Slash or Zen Burst (in combat tree)).

[Graddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euG-HCzG4rA

 

Not sure what spec you are running but this guy has some really good vids to check out .

[MetalFang]

My suggestion, keep the important abilities next to your toon at the center of the screen, I play a marauder annihilation and i keep 3 abilities near the center of my screen to remind myself to use them once they are off cooldown. It'll take sometimes getting use to but believe me, it's rewarding and the most fun out of any class i've pvp with.

 

If you play annihilation like I do, you only need to keep track of rupture, annihilate, battering assault and overload saber, when all these 4 are on cooldown you can just spam slash or use ravage/choke.

 

For defensive measure, always pop cloak of pain when you start taking damge, you should not have any problem with this, treat it like the trooper reactive shield, use force camo if you are getting focus, this will reset the enemies target on you and they normally just switch target . Undying rage for the OH **** moment or for crossing fire in huttball.

[nezitx]

Thank you for posting that (Original poster). You have vindicated all of the Sentinels / Marauders that try to explain that our class is just more complicated than many others.

 

Some say: This class is easy to play, hard to master.

Other classes seem: Easy to play, easy to master. And then it gets boring.

 

I can't go back to my Madness Sorcerer because it's just so bland by comparison.

[AllanGand]

A handy piece of advice I would have for you is learning what ability each of those tiny "graphical effects" corresponds to.

 

For example when you're at 30 stacks you start having this blue fire on your character. That's the point you should pop zen if you have all your burst set up.

 

Once you pop zen your hands are on fire

 

In combat, when you get a small blue flash over your lightsaber it means your ataru form hit, and therefore have the 100% crit chance proc.

 

Getting used to all that graphic information really frees you up from having to always watch your bars and your buff bar.

Edited July 27, 2012 by AllanGand

[RicoZaid]

A handy piece of advice I would have for you is learning what ability each of those tiny "graphical effects" corresponds to.

 

For example when you're at 30 stacks you start having this blue fire on your character. That's the point you should pop zen if you have all your burst set up.

 

Once you pop zen your hands are on fire

 

In combat, when you get a small blue flash over your lightsaber it means your ataru form hit, and therefore have the 100% crit chance proc.

 

Getting used to all that graphic information really frees you up from having to always watch your bars and your buff bar.

 

Holy hell this is useful, someone should make a guide with images :-)

[ArchangelLBC]

I just started a sentinel actually and I was confused at the lack of a guide in this forum. Most other classes have one. When asking my guild I was told by two different people with level 50 sentinels to go Combat so that's my plan for now, and I suppose I'll figure out rotations, but I wouldn't say no to some tips in lieu of an actual guide.

[bionamaster]

I have played 7 of the 8 mirrors so far (4 on the Empire, 3 on the Republic), Sentinel being the last one to play to go 8 for 8. The DPS classes I have played are Arsenal Mercenary, Vengeance Juggernaut, Balance Sage, Sharpshooter Gunslinger, and Assault Vanguard. None of them (and I really mean none of them) have made me feel as overwhelmed as I do when I try playing the Sentinel, and I can't tell if I am just doing it wrong.

 

First off, I don't use special peripherals like Naga Mouse or special keyboards. I have a 2 button Mouse and a 10 dollar cheapo keyboard. In all the DPS classes I have played prior, rotations or priorities have seemed fairly uncomplicated and relaxed. I am constantly one of the top DPS in my Raiding guild when I play my DPS classes, and I am always top when I play my Sage (to the point that I have to be guarded regularly).

 

I am now playing Sentinel to finish my 8th and final story and experience the last Advanced Class I haven't had experience with. I am only level 21 and I already feel like I am getting overwhelmed with abilities and knowing full well I still have more to come. I haven't experienced as many abilities at this stage of leveling a character as I had with any other character. I feel like I have to pop Zen and Rebuke on Cooldown, and spend the rest of fights just popping whatever isn't on cooldown, from the stock of Strike, Zealous Strike, Slash, Blade Storm, Master Strike, Force Leap, Cauterize, and Overload Saber. Only level 21, and I already have a full Action Bar and a half filled with abilities. When I am fighting, I feel like I could just randomly push buttons and still perform the same as if I tried having an actual plan going into a fight.

 

 

 

Is this normal lol? Why do I feel so overwhelmed on this final class after all these other dps classes I have played. I figured it would be similar to Vengeance Juggernaut at the very least, but even they don't have the sheer number of abilities that I feel like I need to worry about on the Sentinel. What am I doing wrong?

You're right on one thing, we Sentinels have enough tricks up our sleeves to break our arms. I'd recommend good keybinds, for starters. You get used to it over time, since a lot of your powers can be situational. But, I do feel like they gave Sentinel a few tricks from each roll: DPS from, uh, DPS; Buffs and Self-heals from Healers, and Survivability from Tanks.