This just in: Aim>Power

[Theology]

So i was doing some testing with my marauder buddy. He has 1700ish Str but stacked power to 1000. As a result, his crit chance blows. His bonus damage from power is ~650. I've been stacking Aim and just grabbing power where I can. I'm at 2005 aim and 547 Power. My bonus damage is 527. So, I lose roughly ~130 bonus damage with only half the power as my friend, but significantly gain in crit and spell damage by just stacking aim. Thus, my findings, show that Matrix Cube>a 2nd relic. Edited July 10, 2012 by Theology

[anarchythreeotwo]

Yeah. I am thinking that as well...

 

Although I am still contemplating going power lol.

 

With full aim augs and aim im at around 1959 aim with 902 power

 

My crit is trash at only 29% buffed. but I got explosive fuel for when I need crit.

Edited July 10, 2012 by anarchythreeotwo

[Hatstandard]

yes but what's his force bonus dmg?

 

and do not mistake my above sentences "yes" for agreeing with you. You sound as you are

Edited July 10, 2012 by Hatstandard

[Hethroin]

So i was doing some testing with my marauder buddy. He has 1700ish Str but stacked power to 1000. As a result, his crit chance blows. His bonus damage from power is ~650. I've been stacking Aim and just grabbing power where I can. I'm at 2005 aim and 547 Power. My bonus damage is 527. So, I lose roughly ~130 bonus damage with only half the power as my friend, but significantly gain in crit and spell damage by just stacking aim. Thus, my findings, show that Matrix Cube>a 2nd relic.

 

Sounds to me like your friend dropped too much crit rating trying to collect all that power.

 

I would advise maintaining around 9 to 10% crit from crit rating.

[PorsaLindahl]

I'll admit to hating math and not doing the math, but during beta I compared primary stat to power. Primary stat gives 4.9 points to damage, where power gives 4.8 points to damage. Your primary stat gives additional benefits (crit, surge, etc) where power only gives a bonus to raw damage.

 

So yeah, I'm a firm believer in primary stat > power first, then added power, crit, surge, etc. as they come. Alacrity is still a joke, so I tend to avoid it like the plague.

[BroadStreetBully]

I'll admit to hating math and not doing the math, but during beta I compared primary stat to power. Primary stat gives 4.9 points to damage, where power gives 4.8 points to damage. Your primary stat gives additional benefits (crit, surge, etc) where power only gives a bonus to raw damage.

 

So yeah, I'm a firm believer in primary stat > power first, then added power, crit, surge, etc. as they come. Alacrity is still a joke, so I tend to avoid it like the plague.

 

This is incorrect. You primary stat has .2 coefficient to damage. Power has a .23 coefficient. So Power is better for adding a little extra damage. Your primary stat is valuable in that it adds damage and crit chance. However, you have to look at how much crit you currently have. Ultimately you need to find the break even point where the extra crit chance from your main stats becomes so minimal that the extra damage from Power becomes better.

[nDjiin]

You use what ever gear gives you a good balance of all round stats - for example I no longer use my Relic in PvP because I have hit the critical chance soft cap so the amount gained is not worth the power I lose by not taking a 2nd WH relic.

[Daiyukie]

Stats and How They Work

 

Read it.

[Hadlis]

With my current load out stacking power I sit at 1489.6 aim and 867 pwr buffed but with out aim stim. I am not fully optimized for power yet with 5 more WH pieces to get plus all the grinding to get the mods to really tweak it if I want. Below are my stats...I only listed the ones that are changing with an aim or power augment switching. At this time I am also not taking the full 9% to aim in skil tree...only 6% for the extra 20% to rail shot.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/a574c638-8175-43d0-b4ec-f7f07878a94e

 

Stats

Top Damage= 1049.2

Dmg Bonus ranged=522.2

Dmg Bonus Tech=848.8

Ranged crit=32.39

Tech crit=36.23

 

These are the stats if I switch all my power to aim: aim 1769.3 power 615...still same buffs no stim.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/452925d1-f1ae-49c0-a147-fc9bf33c89ba

 

Stats

Top Damage=1047.1

Dmg Bonus Ranged=520.1

Dmg Bonus tech=846.7

Ranged crit=33.85

Tech crit=37.7

 

The difference is a loss of 2.1 to my Top damage and bonus damage stacking aim and a gain of 1.46% to my crit.

 

 

My question is when do the diminishing returns kick in for Aim? I'm thinking I will start to switch out my augments to aim for the added crit since 1.4% is a much better choice then 2.1 to top damage. Let me know if I made any mistakes.

[dardack]

Stats and How They Work

 

Read it.

 

Not just that but OP is wrong in so many ways. First you need the 9% aim from ST tree and the 5% from buffs for Aim to be close to power when your crit is over 30% (look at post above and notice this point: Critical effect chance benefit scales slowly and limits to 30% for willpower works same for all primary stats for your class).

 

So with 9% and 5%, .2*1.14 = .228, so only .002 less dam per point.

 

However, if you only have 6% or no % from ST tree, then Power vastly outranks Aim once your crit is over 30%.

 

Also you statement that matrix cube > 2nd relic, um have you seen WH relics 113 power, that's totally wrong.

 

In my PVE gear with 2 WH relics here are my stats (with my pvp gear I'm over 31% crit with 2 WH relics so it's even worse, but why you would wear matrix in PvP is beyond me): :

 

28.86% crit, 624 bonus Dam

 

With Maxtrix

30.08% crit 607 bonus dam.

 

Now you might think the extra crit makes up the loss in bonus damage, but please look at this spread sheet I made:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlvgV8Tn0LSHdGRreXBqaUN5bnZDeVZpT05Scmp4QUE#gid=0

 

This is with 6% aim bonus. With 9% it'd be a tad closer but still worse. Now if the 113 power was like 80 power per WH relic then the matrix cube would probably outperform it, but that much power compared to 66 aim, 27 crit is just OP

You can see that 2 WH relics do more damage because of the bonus damage then the extra crit.

Edited July 11, 2012 by dardack

[Theology]

We'll have to agree to disagree, maybe because of the way that I modded my other gear sacrificing crit for power in other areas, but I'm just at 25% crit (self buffed) with 2000+ aim with 526.7 bonus damage Edited July 11, 2012 by Theology

[dardack]

We'll have to agree to disagree, maybe because of the way that I modded my other gear sacrificing crit for power in other areas, but I'm just at 25% crit (self buffed) with 2000+ aim with 526.7 bonus damage

 

You're wrong, there's no other way to say it. The math backs up power>aim esp when your crit hits 30% about (and it's always better if you don't have the 9% aim buff from ST tree). I just showed in another thread that 28.86% crit with more power is better then 30.06% crit with less power and the difference is ONLY 16 bonus damage (basically you gave up 113 power to gain 66 aim, 27 crit at 6% buff but even 9% it still wouldn't come close). The numbers don't lie. In Rakata/BH/Campaign or WH/BM gear you should be at 30% without any aim augments, and if like me all the 51aim/39power mods, (i mean you give up 13 aim for 27 power. That's just OP right there).

[Theology]

Did you not re-mod any of your WH gear? To be at 30% crit in WH gear would mean you had to have not remodded, unless you're counting the operative buff. I'm sitting at 2005 aim and am only 25.7% (with a few crit mods still in)

[TirjacShiki]

Take a look at my build down below. I modded for power in every way without sacrificing too much crit.

 

If you switch all my stuff to aim, even with the 9% aim talent, I would lose about 20 bonus damage and gain maybe 2% crit.

 

Not worth it at all.

 

Yeah aim adds .2 and power adds .23, it adds up to a pretty big difference if you stack power to the sky.

 

You should always be stacking power. If you run into a powertech who stacks aim in a warzone, be grateful he is stupid enough to do so.

[dardack]

Did you not re-mod any of your WH gear? To be at 30% crit in WH gear would mean you had to have not remodded, unless you're counting the operative buff. I'm sitting at 2005 aim and am only 25.7% (with a few crit mods still in)

 

Do you not have the 5% crit buff? I have all 4 classes buff's so I always count it.

[Hadlis]

We'll have to agree to disagree, maybe because of the way that I modded my other gear sacrificing crit for power in other areas, but I'm just at 25% crit (self buffed) with 2000+ aim with 526.7 bonus damage

 

Getting to 2000 aim doesn't seem possible with WH gear...are you using pve mods? There is no way you can compare your aim to someone who is also trying to maintain an expertise abobe 21%. Can you link your build using mrrobot.com

Edited July 11, 2012 by Hadlis

[Theology]

I use 25 Reflex and 25 commando mod in belt/bracers. And aim augments in each slot. I think im going to switch some things around though and see what I come up with.

[T-Assassin]

You use what ever gear gives you a good balance of all round stats - for example I no longer use my Relic in PvP because I have hit the critical chance soft cap so the amount gained is not worth the power I lose by not taking a 2nd WH relic.

 

this is the best advice i've seen so far, IMO.

 

i go by give and take...not very scientific or mathematically proven, but it works well for me.

 

all my augs are AIM.

 

i then balance my gear based on what i will gain vs what i will lose. if i stand to lose 3% surge for 1% crit, i doubt i would go that route.

 

i'm sure i could bust out a calculator and really min/max my Merc and VG, but, i'm comfortable with my performance in both PvP and PvE balancing my stats.

Edited July 11, 2012 by T-Assassin

[Suryi]

Hmm... this is odd. If I replace all my Aim augments with Overkill ones (11 augments), the difference is... 0.5 in bonus damage, but I'd lose around 1% crit. I'm at 2.1k Aim and 985 power, does power hit DR or what?

[Theology]

Hmm... this is odd. If I replace all my Aim augments with Overkill ones (11 augments), the difference is... 0.5 in bonus damage, but I'd lose around 1% crit. I'm at 2.1k Aim and 985 power, does power hit DR or what?

 

Interesting. Makes me wonder if half aim/power would be best?

[bbare]

Interesting. Makes me wonder if half aim/power would be best?

 

That would be impossible because neither aim nor power have diminishing returns.

Edited July 13, 2012 by bbare

[Ailwen]

Take a look at my build down below. I modded for power in every way without sacrificing too much crit.

 

If you switch all my stuff to aim, even with the 9% aim talent, I would lose about 20 bonus damage and gain maybe 2% crit.

 

Not worth it at all.

 

Yeah aim adds .2 and power adds .23, it adds up to a pretty big difference if you stack power to the sky.

 

You should always be stacking power. If you run into a powertech who stacks aim in a warzone, be grateful he is stupid enough to do so.

 

You actually only lose about 5 bonus damage and not 20 as you claim. You can confirm this using some simple math:

 

This is for full PT Pyro spec with Sorc buff but without Steely Resolve (9% Aim bonus).

 

Aim Bonus Damage = 14 reflex augments x 18 aim x 0.20 x 1.05 (5% sorc buff) = 52.92

Power Bonus Damage = 14 overkill augments x 18 power x 0.23 = 57.96

 

Difference = 5.04 bonus damage or approx 0.8% for fully augmented WH gear. These numbers were confirmed using using the character builder in askmrrobot for a full WH build.

 

Factor in that Aim gives approximately an additional 1.5% crit and I would say that there is no real difference in damage between using Reflex and Overkill augments.

[bbare]

You actually only lose about 5 bonus damage and not 20 as you claim. You can confirm this using some simple math:

 

This is for full PT Pyro spec with Sorc buff but without Steely Resolve (9% Aim bonus).

 

Aim Bonus Damage = 14 reflex augments x 18 aim x 0.20 x 1.05 (5% sorc buff) = 52.92

Power Bonus Damage = 14 overkill augments x 18 power x 0.23 = 57.96

 

Difference = 5.04 bonus damage or approx 0.8% for fully augmented WH gear. These numbers were confirmed using using the character builder in askmrrobot for a full WH build.

 

Factor in that Aim gives approximately an additional 1.5% crit and I would say that there is no real difference in damage between using Reflex and Overkill augments.

 

I'd take 1.5% crit over 5.04 bonus damage any day, lol. Especially since the PT has tons of buffs to his crit damage in his tree.

[Mediia]

So i was doing some testing with my marauder buddy. He has 1700ish Str but stacked power to 1000. As a result, his crit chance blows. His bonus damage from power is ~650. I've been stacking Aim and just grabbing power where I can. I'm at 2005 aim and 547 Power. My bonus damage is 527. So, I lose roughly ~130 bonus damage with only half the power as my friend, but significantly gain in crit and spell damage by just stacking aim. Thus, my findings, show that Matrix Cube>a 2nd relic.

 

Yes, because a Marauder has the same stat priorities as a Powertech, and because the 4 piece set bonus for Powertechs is completely useless. Therefore, I am going to keep stacking crit because 15% bonus crit isn't enough.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/evolutionarygg/b/324962602

 

Skip to 31:13 and watch until 31:36

 

Is it just me or is Rail Shot (number 4 keybind) off cooldown for that entire duration, and 1-2 Prototype Particle Accelerator procs are wasted, and Flame Burst is spammed (more than it should be). I might be blind, that's why I need some verification. Lol. I didn't know it was possible to mess up a 4 button rotation, but apparently it is.

 

(Probably more fails like that in the rest / previous of that video, but I just happened to skip to that part and stopped watching right after. (Lol.))

Edited July 15, 2012 by Mediia

[dardack]

You actually only lose about 5 bonus damage and not 20 as you claim. You can confirm this using some simple math:

 

This is for full PT Pyro spec with Sorc buff but without Steely Resolve (9% Aim bonus).

 

Aim Bonus Damage = 14 reflex augments x 18 aim x 0.20 x 1.05 (5% sorc buff) = 52.92

Power Bonus Damage = 14 overkill augments x 18 power x 0.23 = 57.96

 

Difference = 5.04 bonus damage or approx 0.8% for fully augmented WH gear. These numbers were confirmed using using the character builder in askmrrobot for a full WH build.

 

Factor in that Aim gives approximately an additional 1.5% crit and I would say that there is no real difference in damage between using Reflex and Overkill augments.

 

You forgot the 5% for bonus damage. Since power effects this, you have to take into account 5% for this. So it's like 7-8 more bonus damage. I'll give up the crit personally. To each their own.