What's wrong with Operatives?

[Arrys]

Believe it or not, our class is benefitting less from gear upgrades than most. That is, if you have a mara, and go from recruit to WH + augments, you will see a greater benefit than a Concealment operative that makes the same upgrade.

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Well healing you do love the 20K HP targets and SP. One of the reasons medicine is considered strong is quite frankly our goto emergency heal gets more and more usable for free as HP levels climb......And very few classes can take 6K+ hp in 1 GCD. particularly as targets with that HP level also have the highest mitigation potential.

 

Medicine has benefitted greatly from gear...

[MobiusZero]

Well healing you do love the 20K HP targets and SP. One of the reasons medicine is considered strong is quite frankly our goto emergency heal gets more and more usable for free as HP levels climb......And very few classes can take 6K+ hp in 1 GCD. particularly as targets with that HP level also have the highest mitigation potential.

 

Medicine has benefitted greatly from gear...

 

I'm referring to Concealment Ops.

 

Medicine also gets Alacrity on their WH gear, instead of accuracy, which is actually useful to them in PvP.

[Trauglodyte]

Also, unlike every other class in the game, Concealment Op must remod their WH gear in order to even be on equall terms with other classes' out of the box gear, since most of it gives +accuracy which is useless to a Concealment Op.

 

This x1000. With my gear set, which is all WH armor except for BM ear, relics, and implants, before I remodded, I was at almost 300 accuracy. War Hero gear for Ops is either Accuracy/Power, Surge/Power, or Crit/Surge. Though, at the risk of standing up for the devs, it isn't like they could just load us up on nothing but Power/Crit/Surge cause then we'd wreck face and everyone would cry.

[MobiusZero]

A little side note, is that the rebels get a BM weapon that has a crit/surge enchancement, but Imperials don't. So scoundrels have an actual advantage over Operatives, since they can swap out their +accuracy enhancements much more easily.

[Tadus]

I see SOO many people just COMPLAINING non-stop that Ops are weak and not very good damage dealers or that they're "dead". I see it alot in regards to PVP, which I don't understand. How are these complainers playing? Because if they try to bullrush a group of players, I'm not surprised they get slaughtered. Weak damage? At level 22 my concealment Op tears through people. Before you try to say "That's non- 50!", look up some videos. You see a 50 Op take most people to dead or almost dead within their burst, and THAT'S weak? Really? I don't get it.

 

 

 

P.S. I've been meaning to try Lethality, how good is it for leveling and when does that start?( This is unrelated to above xD)

 

 

Please please do not comment on end game pvp til you have actually reached end game pvp. And, Youtube is not a good source for anything.

[Jestuh]

And, Youtube is not a good source for anything.

 

Except Epic Rap battles of History!!!

[vimm]

To the OP,

 

Concealment Operative is fantastic - you're correct; I'm very happy with where it is now.

[MobiusZero]

To the OP,

 

Concealment Operative is fantastic - you're correct; I'm very happy with where it is now.

 

Yeah, I bet you play a Mara or PT

[Roxax]

To the OP,

 

Concealment Operative is fantastic - you're correct; I'm very happy with where it is now.

 

Whoa I'm not going to go THAT far. It DOES need improvement, I'm just saying that it isn't as bad as people claim. Also, to all of the "You're level 22 ****" people, I've played my friend's 50 concealment Op before AND after the nerfs, which is the reason I made my own.

[Motro]

I played a rogue in WoW for at least 3 years and when it's a gear issue, you pick your targets. When you have the gear? It's L2P. I'm not as clueless as you people think so please stop insulting me by assuming so.

 

Did you read that guys? He played a rogue in WoW for three years! That means he is actually a PvP operative expert despite only having a level 20 operative. I beat Splinter Cell, so I can relate.

 

Look, you obviously came here with an opinion which you have no intentions of changing. You have no real interest in finding out what has destroyed this class. It appears that your only real purpose here is to tell everyone playing the class that they should be satisfied with how the class performs because YOU leveled one to 20 and found some cherry-picked Youtube videos where operatives are fighting ungeared players.

 

Nobody here is buying what you are selling. Just leave already.

[Macabrae]

Operatives have been nerfed, what, 4 times since release?

 

Yea and trust me they are still doing an extreme amount of damage to a target while the other guy is stunned.....I am not asking for nerfs but don't act like OPS aren't good either cause they are the best 1v1 class in the game.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Macabrae

[Rizael]

Yea and trust me they are still doing an extreme amount of damage to a target while the other guy is stunned.....I am not asking for nerfs but don't act like OPS aren't good either cause they are the best 1v1 class in the game.

 

Actually since 1.3 the best 1v1 classes have consistently been Anni Marauder -- Tanksin -- Pyrotech in that order.

[NoTomorrow]

People keep whinning how operatives are a weak but then we have unkillable guarded healing operatives. If the ops were so bad we wouldn't have tons of them in warzones now.

[Omophorus]

Ironically, I've been playing a Marauder since day 1 and I'm rolling an Operative (most likely primarily Concealment for PVP) specifically because I want a DPS with a higher skill cap, to see whether or not I can make it shine.

 

I feel like the biggest issue with Concealment Ops (and their mirrors) is that it takes a ton of work to sustain decent DPS output once the stealth opener is exhausted.

 

I know, on the other side of the coin, that there are a couple of Smuggs/Ops who are sufficiently geared (e.g. remodded WH, fully augmented) that they can be a real problem if they get their opener off, but the rest of the time, I just have to not be an idiot when I blow my CC breaker and CDs, and I'll eat them for lunch. Sure, I'll spot them a 30-50% lead on HP, but that's hardly insurmountable against normal, run of the mill non-stealth Ops DPS.

 

That said, those couple guys who I'm always worried about facing are the same people who make me want to roll an Op, because the potential is obviously there if one can play at a high enough level. Time to find out if I can or not!

 

Side note: To the people who said Marauder got a big buff... Ravage got pumped up some, but that was primarily for Juggernauts' benefit. Annihilation, which is by far the most-complained-about spec, took a nerf and the other specs got tweaked to be viable alternatives (no one ever used Carnage or Rage in any serious capacity because they were too weak).

 

Marauders have become FOTM because of the perception of buffs, plus the gear needed to make them shine (Marauder is the most gear-dependent DPS in the game) became much more accessible. The BM comm slot machine kept things reasonable until 1.2, and shortly before then is when you started to see fully-BM geared Marauders popping up, which is right around when people realized they were hardly weak.

[Macabrae]

Actually since 1.3 the best 1v1 classes have consistently been Anni Marauder -- Tanksin -- Pyrotech in that order.

 

Lets agree to dis-agree then cause a friend of mine mops the floor with those classes in that order as well.

[MobiusZero]

Yea and trust me they are still doing an extreme amount of damage to a target while the other guy is stunned.....I am not asking for nerfs but don't act like OPS aren't good either cause they are the best 1v1 class in the game.

 

Though I disagree with this, it doesn't really matter in a WZ.

 

Typically I laugh at most Concealment Ops that attack me, because I can just stun them and get the attention of my team, and watch them drop dead as they futilely try to kill me, thanks to their lack of any way to stop me from kiting them with ease.

 

Outside of their first 5.5 seconds, they're a complete joke. In fact, I often just ignore them, since I don't have time to bother swatting mosquitoes, when I have bigger fish to fry.

 

This game is not so much about 1v1, but 8v8. If I don't allow Concealment Ops the opportunity to 1v1 me, they become nothing but an annoying insect. In a team battle, they are one of the most non-factor specs you can have.

Edited July 15, 2012 by MobiusZero

[Roxax]

Did you read that guys? He played a rogue in WoW for three years! That means he is actually a PvP operative expert despite only having a level 20 operative. I beat Splinter Cell, so I can relate.

 

Look, you obviously came here with an opinion which you have no intentions of changing. You have no real interest in finding out what has destroyed this class. It appears that your only real purpose here is to tell everyone playing the class that they should be satisfied with how the class performs because YOU leveled one to 20 and found some cherry-picked Youtube videos where operatives are fighting ungeared players.

 

Nobody here is buying what you are selling. Just leave already.

Please read all of my posts before attempting to troll them. It really is pathetic. I'd be willing to change my opinion if people actually presented some valid facts/details instead of crappy experiences they've had...

[Akatoshia]

Please read all of my posts before attempting to troll them. It really is pathetic. I'd be willing to change my opinion if people actually presented some valid facts/details instead of crappy experiences they've had...

 

Looking at this thread in general, I'd say that you were the one looking to start a fight, lol.

 

There's a difference between constructively asking why Ops seem so underpowered, and accusing everyone on this forum of being "complainers" and whiners for having an opinion on the viability of their class...

[Synx]

I see SOO many people just COMPLAINING non-stop that Ops are weak and not very good damage dealers or that they're "dead". I see it alot in regards to PVP, which I don't understand. How are these complainers playing? Because if they try to bullrush a group of players, I'm not surprised they get slaughtered. Weak damage? At level 22 my concealment Op tears through people. Before you try to say "That's non- 50!", look up some videos. You see a 50 Op take most people to dead or almost dead within their burst, and THAT'S weak? Really? I don't get it.

 

 

 

P.S. I've been meaning to try Lethality, how good is it for leveling and when does that start?( This is unrelated to above xD)

 

Seriously, you're level 22 and talking like you know about the class. So much derp. I've been playing Operative since beta, and as a PvE player I'm sick of being nerfed and gimped for PvP balance. No gap closer, poor sustained damage and sod all utility.

 

I must be a masochist to still be playing this class as my main, my Sniper is better in every respect.

[tacito]

Yeah, that's what gets to me about my operative. I love the play style, I'm still having fun, and since I'm not exactly raiding bleeding edge content, damage output is fine. But in a raid setting, I simply have nothing to bring to the raid other than 5% crit.

 

Now I understand that people say "If all classes deal equal damage, why take a character that can't respec to healing or tank when needed?". It's not as grim as people tend to think, after all while an operative may have the possibility to respec, doesn't mean the lethality or concealment op is going to heal you through Denova HM.

But as of now, marauders and snipers deal more damage and bring more utility to the table. In addition to being less affected by target switching or rapid relocation, thanks to ranged attacks or force jump.

 

I think that's what unnerves some players: In a PvE operation setting, as a damage dealing operative you don't have stealth and, apart from a few gimmicky situations, you don't have heals. All that's left is terrible mobility and subpar damage that may, in high end guilds, deny you that kill you could have gotten otherwise. A 1% wipe and you know your group would have killed that thing if you played another class. That's what people are upset about. I guess.

[Sookster]

At level 22 my concealment Op tears through people.

 

That's it guys! Operative's fine, the guy says so with his level 22.

[tatatan]

...

But in a raid setting, I simply have nothing to bring to the raid other than 5% crit....

.

Not even that, thanks to legacy, you bet, someone else has side-grinded IA character to 50 just for that buff ...

[Rizael]

Not even that, thanks to legacy, you bet, someone else has side-grinded IA character to 50 just for that buff ...

 

lvl 33 and someone can run you through chapter 2 and get the buff, or you could just get to about level 36 (38 is much easier though) and finish it yourself.

[TheOpf]

I recently got my Scoundrel to 50, I am full BM with a modded belt and bracers to fully utilize stats and 3 piece War hero. I ran DF for weeks went to scrapper the last few days to find out the difference between the two. I also play a Guardian and a PT. The PT in the same gear can do it's damage much quicker and take significantly longer to kill. I provide a greater benefit to my team as a Guardian (multiple jumps and more immunity)

 

Dirty Fighting/Lethality are the easiest to play with lower gear levels as you can dot dot and stay out of melee. The problem is everyone thinks you are a healer so you get focused. I generally group up with a DF/Leth Scoundrel/Op, and it's fun to kill people because he is strafing while I was in their face. However, the kill time is still longer than when I group with our guild Vanguard.

 

The biggest benefit of the scrapper is when you need to kill someone fast, you sick him and a Mara or PT, and that guy is going to die with zero ability to escape. Our guild Vanguard marks a target starts to attack or grapples, I swoop in hit shoot first which gives you the 1.5 sec stun than tendon blast once he's up with a stun and interrupt and the guy is dead.

 

The biggest issue I have found is after backblast and shoot first are done, the damage falls off the map. Heck I respecced my scrapper to take the double tick Vital Shot because I needed more damage. Lacerate/Sucker Punch is extremely weak. At my level it's hitting for 2k crit - 1.1k normal. Against fully WH geared PT's or Tanks, after 5 seconds I don't even have 1/4 of their health gone.

 

Dirty Fighting/Lethality has an advantage here. Kiting, strafing and moving at range and then swooping in for kills allows you to do a better job of staying alive and putting pressure on specific classes. The length of time til the burst is still annoying me, but it's not the worst.

 

In the end, my thought is the healing tree is the best designed tree in the entire advanced class. Scrapper has great initial burst and then it kind of peters out. The amount of work you have to put in to be very good as a scrapper or Dirty fighter is significantly more than with the other dps trees that I have played.

 

I have played a Guardian, and outside of Focus/Rage. It has a similar skill level cap, but you have significantly more mobility, stuns, and defensive utility. I love my scoundrel, but I can guarantee you that if my PT was a vanguard or my Guardian was 50 my guild would be telling me to bring the Guardian Tank.

 

Editing note: I did notice on my Dirty fighting/Lethality. I am rarely spotted until I weave in for the kill. Even then I am ignored until after key targets are downed because all the damage is backloaded. When I play scrapper, as soon as I pop out and the knockdown hits a healer, every freaking Jug, Sent, PT, and sniper is on me. I am the first focused down just about every time.

Edited July 16, 2012 by TheOpf

[Roxax]

That's it guys! Operative's fine, the guy says so with his level 22.

 

Ahem, please read all I've posted. Operatives are what started me on this game since I was constantly using my friends prior to subscribing myself. I happen to have played it quite a bit. Just because my OWN Operative is only 22 that doesn't mean I have no prior experience with the class itself. I have addressed this, if you choose to ignore it be my guest.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Roxax