Sin/Shadow - Spike (2s) - electrocute (4s)

Its either you have Expertise gear or remove all player gear and used normalized statistics. If you do no do this then you give the advantage to PvE players (which I am guessing you are).

I am guessing your operative is either below 50 or you are a lvl 50 in recruit gear of another class.

I have used knife attacks while having the vibro-knife unequipped. You can still do it you just lose the stats on the offhand, on closer inspection you can notice the skills that use knives in the animations don't actually say "requires vibroknife", whereas the abilities for ranged attacks clearly state the need for a blaster rifle.

You actually don't need a vibroknife for the "vibro knife moves"

It is equally difficult to believe that PvE Boss kills and gear mean anything to people.

Enemy team leaves due to having no chance - gain 1 rating. I know we are not the only team that people are queue dodging but if the team just leaves we get penalized even worse? The average game nets us a gain of 3 points. Is this what we can expect as a feature?

PvP opinions only I do not PvE 1. Concealment: High burst then just shoot once and you can ignore for the rest of group encounters, highly random with damage due to high dependance on backstab and hidden strike crits. Unlike a few other classes no autocrit is available for key skills so gearing must be heavy on crit making the +damage drop. Tech damage is also mitigated by soc buff and various other sources along with being weaker by design initially, this makes the class a one trick pony with a dice. 2. Concealment : High Burst low sustained, no sustainable or quickly repeatable (less than 15seconds missing a skill not needing a gap closer) rotation. Energy issues due to conflict between burst "kill" mentality of the class and the punishing nature of the diminishing energy regen system. Being kept in combat longer than intended due to poorly made dot/heals keeping our damage from being effective, and being completely ineffective until you outgear and outskill your opponents with many classes having no chance of losing to this class.

This is correct I just tested it pull does not work crouching in the middle of a field of flowers with no blocks in the way for some reason. Also I tested the interrupt and interrupts still work against us in either form of our cover, so no god-mode healing I am afraid.

Please tell me these were fraps'd and hosted on youtube somewhere as I might find that entertaining. Sidenote: Who actually thinks developers are amazing players due to their profession? Granted they know a lot of things that we may never even know but in terms of actually playing the characters, people with no lives are always going to win out due to time invested. You think they are going to work eight hours on a game and then go home and play it for the rest of their night? I think the main thing to think about is that it is their job, not their substitute for a drug addiction.

lvl 33 and someone can run you through chapter 2 and get the buff, or you could just get to about level 36 (38 is much easier though) and finish it yourself.

Concealement is one of the best classes to sit on a node and do nothing in Alderaan and Novare. Since you can take both advanced stealth and stealth detection in the line it puts you at a bit of an edge, as stealth is always a bonus to give you a "leg up" on defense. The reason it has a leg up on say a Deception assassin or a Tanksin is due to the mez's and control of player it has, it a great class at stalling for backup while still providing some damage as well. Since the "leaving combat" is always an issue as well this keeps the class away from other players to potentially allow us to re-stealth. Guarding a sidenote also has the added bonus as an excuse of why our damage is substandard when compared to the alpha classes. --Forever a beta.

Because the class design team and the itemization team never talked. Nah, I am just kidding, the real reason would be to increase the amount of grind the force players to get the same pieces over and over instead of quickly getting everything and not wanting to play anymore. There is almost no sets of armor in the entire game that is properly itemized for the class as a gearset whole. There are classes that have their "gathering" easier like the BH's which get pieces that have the best crit mod and enh on the glove piece, and other advantages (which will eventually half the amount of pvp work you have to do). PvE encounters in "other" games usually have bosses with high evasion so the accuracy was most likely made to mitigate this (Tech atk's + acc is fail) You are immune to leaps and pulls (can't remember if we get interrupt immunity - if we do all heal ops should use it) but not knockbacks (unsure if you can be friendly pulled *would assume you can be*) like a non hunkered down sniper behind actual cover. Taking cover in place yields no defensive results but allows you to use the skillset "from cover"

Why do people say Turrent when the you can save a letter and just say Turret. I mean turret even sounds better :/

Another new thing to keep track of is not the answer, but I did enjoy one idea and that is TA to leave combat(would have to be like 30 second CD so people don't cry so much). Tieing in with this I would suggest requiring Hidden strike to need a TA to use and put the TA generation on Backstab. This would make things be "relatively" the same and you would require 2 TA to stealth and then hidden strike (also removes initial OMG he touched me syndrome). This would allow for more flexibility and also have the added benifit of me never having to use my least favorite skill in the game (Lacerate why you take up so many skill points and still suck!?)

I'm guessing it was lowbie warzones and... well there is a tonne of talent in lowbie warzones to use as a good measure of class balance.

I agree with the OP. Scoreboards need a good nerf to bring them in line with the other UI features, make is so!

Original post is about concealment operatives not the heal kind.

Actually since 1.3 the best 1v1 classes have consistently been Anni Marauder -- Tanksin -- Pyrotech in that order.

This is not really on topic but I just wanted to point out that not a single person can read that font you use in your sig. I was curious so I copy/pasted it into word :/ . Just saying if you want your message to get more attention using something that is easily readable might help.

I have thought about similar ideas as well, however I have ended up negating them as restealthing in combat would become overpowered. If we have a class that every 15 seconds disappears and assists a train even if they are trying to hit you someone hitting them will change their target upon a hit. This will have too much effect on the survivability of the class (even though there is so much aoe to break us out). Unfortunately making stealth that much readily available would cause so much crying we may have a new ocean in SWTOR. but good ideas I did really like the idea of a stealth calldown in one area that could have been interesting. The reason why I was trying to bring hidden strike out of stealth is because of a few things: 1) the coding already exists in the assassin tank tree (spike) with removing the required stealth portion 2) It does not add an ability 3) It does not increase the survivability of the class 4) It does not increase the energy regen of the class (it actually will make our energy disappear faster) (there was probably a few others but... *yawn* )

People who want to be competitive will do it, casuals who are in it because playing against other people is fun *super happy smiley face* will not. If you can believe it there are people who do warzones just to get a specific look of armor, or because they need to attain a certain rank for a title. All I can say to help you out is play to level 33 (innoculation lvl req on quesh) then have a friendly lvl 50 punch through the rest, you do not need to be level 50 to get the buffs. Stop being lazy there is plenty of time to do this as no one does rateds 24/7 and unrateds don't matter anyway.

The thing that stood out to me was when he said "Its a lone wolf class that doesn't play well with others"... But there are very few classes that I would say would lose to an equally skilled deception assassin when they are both "lone wolfing". Should a lone wolf class not automatically smash the team friendly front line damage dealing class (aka marauder)? It seems maybe they forgot to make the lone wolves anything but a beta.

Source Its okay guys heal is a gap closer! Its so nice that we have a heal that we should not use in PvE or PvP as it wastes far too much time and energy to cast. But it makes a convenient scape goat when someone needs a justification for missing abilities. In all honesty though I don't believe we need a gap closer at all, once I get on a target they are stuck with me, and not to mention the increase in base movement speed helps as well (which was failed to be mentioned in the question). Also in there is them talking about the deception assassin as "does not play well with others", why is it then that almost every single dps class in the game (and most tanks) have no issues defeating deception sins in one on one conflicts, shouldn't a class that is a lone wolf dominate a "team friendly dps" character like the marauder? It just does not happen in reality though. My hope is when they finally introduce cross server queues they will look at statistics from the high rated players and realize that there is no place for a lone wolf class that is not an alpha. Screw the ideal world metrics on hitting target dummies and get some statistics from good players for proper balancing.

I have been thinking for a while that "something" is missing from our class (talking of concealment only), however I have not come to the conclusion that other people have appeared to make. I do not believe our problems are that we have no gap closer in fact our base speed is higher and our ranged root go a long way to make us very hard to escape from (for tech based classes toxin scan as well). I find that our issue has a lot to do with the design of the class and I will try to explain my case to whomever it may concern. The main design of every single target DPS class has been a rotation of 3 strong abilities with relatively short cooldowns (15s or less) for example a pyro-tech will have Thermal detonator, railshot, and the second railshot proc which is a combo that takes about 15s to reset and continue, the deception assassin has a 6 second rotation of voltaicx2, maul (on proc or some other melee ability) followed by a shock, which is done twice to be on par with the pyrotech. The operative conversely does Hidden strike, backstab and explosive probe, seems fairly reasonable at first glance, but the issue is the sustainability of the rotations. Pyro and deception can continually use their rotation where the operative hinges on being in stealth. To me this puts hidden strike not as a "damage move" like the others that have been listed but in the same realm as assassinate (30% execute). If you also research the abilities listed for the operative that backstab is a 12 second CD ability, explosive probe is 30s and hidden strike is 7.5, meaning in the best case this "combo" can only be done once every 30 seconds which is double the timing of other classes. Now if we assume from a balance standpoint that this was done to make the operatives Hidden strike a fearful move to make up for the fact that it will be used once and then forgotten until you can scramble back into stealth. There is no fear of this move as it only does adequate damage, there are other force/tech abilities that do more damage than this move, can be auto-crit (meaning they can forgo putting any crit into their gear), and AoE. Now with that said I am not advocating a buff for Hidden strike or a nerf of smash, what I am trying to express is that something is missing from operatives and no one seems to notice. The item I believe that is missing is another ability that is used out of stealth, my thoughts are to tie jarring strikes to open the ability to use Hidden strike outside of stealth, however when used this way it will not cause a knockdown (perhaps not generate TA either). To balance the new Hidden strike the cool down will have to be changed as well to what I would suggest as 12 seconds for greater synergy with backstab. This would also allow for more up time on acid blade's poison increasing Operative DPS substantially while keeping burst the exact same. Other things that feel out of place: Degrading energy regen on a burst class (punishing a burst class for bursting) 12s Interrupt CD (most other melee classes have a base of 8, but sins and operative have 12) Oddly paired defensive cool downs for the class (Low CD defensives to be used multiple times for a class that opens to control the target, doesn't synergize well) The Dice-roll for damage on opener (ie if it doesn't crit it does laughable damage) ^ I am not really saying this list needs to be changed but I would like to know why these design choices were made in this fashion. A parting note is that Operative damage will increase by quite a bit when they sort out the combat bugs that tend to keep the class in combat for 30-60 seconds after combat, or how an explosive dart that goes off after the pyrotech's death makes you locked in combat with the respawned character... this is wrong sooooooooo wrong. Anyway I would like some feedback on what you guys think about this idea as well as I would like to see us more viable but not overpowered. TLDR; Take your medication and read it through.