One money sink too many.

[chimunga]

Cause those 3 crafting skills didn't get a big perk already?

The demand for Augmentation kits right now are through the roof. The only people making money from crafting them are Armor tech, Arms tech and Synthweavers.

The demand for Augments right now are through the roof. Guess which 3 crafting skills make those.

The demand for crafted gear has also gone up since you can now augment any piece of gear and remove high level armoring over to that crafted piece.

 

All that money is going straight into these crafter's pockets. Yet the complaint I am hearing the most from this thread is coming from those people who feel they shouldn't have to be included in the new credit sink because they have these crafting skills. Which really makes no sense to me.

 

Arms tech's can make their own weapons. This is the lasting perk you get as an Arms Tech. Instead of hunting for a weapon upgrade as you level, you just make one for yourself. Once you hit 50 Arms Tech loses its usefulness, at least it did Pre-1.3. Now at 50 you can make and sell high level augments and augmentation kits as well as customizable weapons.

 

Synthweavers can make their own gear. No more having to grind out dailies at lower levels to get that custom piece or planetary commendations. If you need an upgrade, you just make it yourself. Like Arms Tech, once you hit 50 it loses its usefulness, at least it did pre-1.3. Same difference with Armor techs.

 

So why again should these people be exempt from paying the augmentation fee?

 

I don't really think crafters have that big of a perk. With synthweaving and armormech, once you get an orange piece of gear for every slot, it's pretty much useless, unless you decide you want a different look. Especially now that you can make and/or buy moddable bracers and belts. And it's not like you're getting a fully-modded piece of gear. You're getting an empty moddable you have to fill. It's the same for armstech, except with that you can make your own barrels as well. And (on my server atleast) people are rarely buying augment slots or augments for low levels, so there's little money to be had there until you've maxed out the skill. The most I use is for leveling is making bracers and belts for my companion.

 

I guess maybe I'm doing it wrong, but that's how I see it.

[whyzerman]

I don't really think crafters have that big of a perk. With synthweaving and armormech, once you get an orange piece of gear for every slot, it's pretty much useless, unless you decide you want a different look. Especially now that you can make and/or buy moddable bracers and belts. And it's not like you're getting a fully-modded piece of gear. You're getting an empty moddable you have to fill. It's the same for armstech, except with that you can make your own barrels as well. And (on my server atleast) people are rarely buying augment slots or augments for low levels, so there's little money to be had there until you've maxed out the skill. The most I use is for leveling is making bracers and belts for my companion.

 

I guess maybe I'm doing it wrong, but that's how I see it.

 

But those empty shells are easily filled with planetary commendations.

 

Once you make a reusable stim, adrenal, implants and med pack Biochem becomes just as useless, in fact during leveling the only thing I used biochem for was my implants because it was cheaper to use the stims/med packs that fell off of the mobs or that were available at the vendor. I had to farm for everything else. At max level the only thing it is currently good for is allowing me to use my reusable stim/adrenal and med pack and to make stims to sell on the GTN so I have enough for repairs and gear upgrades.

 

Same with Cybertech. Once you hit about level 20 its cheaper and faster to grind out dailies for the mods/armoring you need. At that point the only good thing that comes from cybertech (at least as a tank) were the ear pieces. In fact at level 20-50 the vendor has a larger selection of mods/armoring then are available for you to train. At 50 the only thing its good for is filling your empty slots with blue armoring upgrades until you can afford either the tionese gear or the mods/armoring from the daily vendors. Once you hit columi+ level gear, the skill becomes absolutely useless.

[chimunga]

But those empty shells are easily filled with planetary commendations.

 

Once you make a reusable stim, adrenal, implants and med pack Biochem becomes just as useless, in fact during leveling the only thing I used biochem for was my implants because it was cheaper to use the stims/med packs that fell off of the mobs or that were available at the vendor. I had to farm for everything else. At max level the only thing it is currently good for is allowing me to use my reusable stim/adrenal and med pack and to make stims to sell on the GTN so I have enough for repairs and gear upgrades.

 

Same with Cybertech. Once you hit about level 20 its cheaper and faster to grind out dailies for the mods/armoring you need. At that point the only good thing that comes from cybertech (at least as a tank) were the ear pieces. In fact at level 20-50 the vendor has a larger selection of mods/armoring then are available for you to train. At 50 the only thing its good for is filling your empty slots with blue armoring upgrades until you can afford either the tionese gear or the mods/armoring from the daily vendors. Once you hit columi+ level gear, the skill becomes absolutely useless.

 

God, you're right. They really need to fix crew skills....

 

For me, Biochem is always useful leveling because people see their old reusable really cheap on the GTN, so once I get to the correct level, I just pick up the right medpac, stim, and adrenal and go on my merry way without ever having the reverse engineer anything. That might be why I see it as more useful than other professions. Plus, implants always sell for bank, for some reason.

 

Cybertech is okay. Making your own mods is nice, but I always just end up dropping it because I can easily get mods from planets and FPs.

 

I guess the reason I got so angry at this credit sink (and not others) was because of this line of thought: "Okay. I'm picking up armormech. Pretty much useless in the long run, but I'm so sick of biochem. trying to psyche myself up. And hey, there's a perk that I can make my own augments as I level. That's pretty neat. Okay. I'm gonna do this. Go Amormech. Wooh." And the I make my own augment kit, and augment, frantically look for a item mod station and thennnn.... it wants me to give it money. Not only did I make the augment, but I made the armor. Can you understand why I would think that's stupid?

Edited July 9, 2012 by chimunga

[DarthAcerbus]

Endgame isn't a game, it's a job. I'm a bit sad that getting to 50 actually made me *less* interested in my other characters, now that I know what's waiting for them.

[Noxxaidin]

i got 16 + mill so i dont mind but im thinking of the others, 90% of the people dont even have over 1 million and then all these freaking money sinks comes. I get it that they try to get the people with alot of money to spend it but it makes every other person with little money even more poor so its a bad idea....

[Sabaot]

I'm amazed how high are those prices. And how ridiculous high are they. it's insane. One guy on this thread spent 3M cr to just complete a nice looking set. Three MILLION credits. For an armor set.

 

Comparison:

YT-1300 Light Freighter (most know example - Millenium Falcon)

new unit price: 100.000

used: 25.000

 

CR90 Corvette (most know example - Tantive V; also know as Blockade Runner)

new unit price: 3.500.000

used: 1.500.000

 

So for a cash that one guy trashed he could just buy a flotilla of space war ships! Literally. 20 million credits to unlock Legacy perks? To allow Bounty Hunter a Force Choke? F*** it. I'd rather buy 10 more corvettes and order an orbital bombardment. Less accurate but much more devastating.

 

And hey - I have my own fleet.

[kitsinni]

Just my one main guy has four armor sets. I checked and if I bought everything off the GTN it would cost about 3-3.5 million to augment each set. With it already costing millions of credits that most people don't have the extra 30k per augment slot was just another kick in the pants.

 

SWTOR is the mother of all credit sinks.

[Lucyfer_Infinity]

No wonder there are no gold sellers in SWTOR they are to poor to sell anything Edited July 9, 2012 by Lucyfer_Infinity

[sevalaricgirl]

 

Being forced into dailies isn't the solution to provide the currency. Introduce other currency requirements if you're determined to go that route. Like tokens cashed in from gambling at the pazaak tables. Now THAT could be fun. People will get another mini game, added "fluff" that so many have requested, and it might actually be FUN saving up for these fees.

 

I agree completely. They should put gambling games in it, pazaak, saabac, swoop racing, and let us spend our hard earned credits on something enjoyable.

[Magicmind]

My favorite part is the effort put into a overly complicated "appearance customization" system. At end game it costs WAY TOO MUCH to keep stripping mods from my armor and moving to social or orange customization gear. I don't even bother and just wear whatever gear drops. Even if I look like a complete clown or everyone else. I would rather play an alt than have to grind out dailies. Cost of pulling Item Mods is stupid high. Would rather spend those credits on new gear or perks.

 

Why not just do the wardrobe tab like so many other games have done? Its a good system.

 

This! signed sealed and delivered.

[sevalaricgirl]

But those empty shells are easily filled with planetary commendations.

 

Same with Cybertech. Once you hit about level 20 its cheaper and faster to grind out dailies for the mods/armoring you need. At that point the only good thing that comes from cybertech (at least as a tank) were the ear pieces. In fact at level 20-50 the vendor has a larger selection of mods/armoring then are available for you to train. At 50 the only thing its good for is filling your empty slots with blue armoring upgrades until you can afford either the tionese gear or the mods/armoring from the daily vendors. Once you hit columi+ level gear, the skill becomes absolutely useless.

 

I disagree somewhat. I like cybertech to make grenades, and I make tons of mods for my lowbie characters., purples. I can supply my characters up to level 50 with purples.

[LarryRow]

If you do the Black Hole and more convenient Ilum Dailies while you wait for warzones to pop, you can easily stay ahead credit-wise.

 

What is not cool is the cost to respec. It should be a flat affordable rate. I shouldn't be penalized because they were too lazy to put in dual spec. They have all these classes that have 2 roles, or a spec that's good for pvp and another that you might prefer for pve. They should encourage people to switch between the two gameplay styles instead of making me think, "Well, I could queue with the group finder, but hm, I'd have to respec to tank effectively and it's my 8th respec this week... Nah forget it, I'll wait for the weekly reset"

[chimunga]

I disagree somewhat. I like cybertech to make grenades, and I make tons of mods for my lowbie characters., purples. I can supply my characters up to level 50 with purples.

 

Totally off-topic, but I've been thinking of switching my main over to cyber tech to fuel my lowbies. So that is a good use for it. Plus, low-mid level mods sell for a pretty penny to people that don't feel like getting comms or doing FPs. And I'd like cybertech more for grenades if the grenades had like 30 seconds less son their CD.

[Adanis]

I can understand the frustration on the augments install cost, I am one of the frustrated, there is no reason for that at all. As well as the cost of removing mods is just plain wrong and yet a waste credits. BW has created some pretty hideous gear and than punished us for wanting to keep our characters not looking like total galactic rejects by having a mod removal fee so we can keep gear that we actually worked for and like!

 

The legacy fees really don't bother me at all due to I feel that too many people want everything handed to them with no work at all. Plus no one is forcing you to purchase the perks anyways so complaining about the cost of legacy perks is just saying "give me everything because I don't want to work for it!" However, I do agree with that legacy perks should be LEGACY wide not this individual perk stuff...what makes this legacy if it is not shared by your Legacy Tree? nothing...

[Datku]

Its because a percentage of the game population view credits as a sign of winning the game. If they can craft/sell/market their way to 100-200million credits that is their level of success. This game has made earning credits fairly easy. You can get a decent amount as you level up that you don't have to pinch every single credit for the next upgrade, while also limiting earnings so you can't really just buy anything and everything you want. We are talking a single character here not a sugar baby alt.

 

Problem came when some people started claiming it was too easy to make money that they were sitting on 20 millon credits without anything left to spend it on. Was never found out if this person only had the one character and didn't have alts to provide for, or if they had a purely profit line profession or professions that ate up credits etc. So in typical fashion the game devs over reacted. Added money sinks to strip down the excess income because a percentage of players had enough credits to manipulate and inflate the game market. Someone that can craft an item that already has 20 mil credits don't see an issue with listing an implant for 600k credits...its but a drop in the bucket to them. To others 600k is significant so they complain about the inflated market and in comes the game devs thinking if we reduce the over all credit values in game them credits will be more meaning full and costs will actually drop because sellers wont be sitting on large reserves of credits. Too bad it didn't work out that way. Instead prices went up because now those that had 20mil credits and bought white saber crystals and legacy perks were "broke" so they had to sell their goods for more to recover.

 

To me the biggest issue is the fact that gold selling is not a major issue in this game. Why? There is no need for them. Sure there are some attempts by gold sellers to establish in the game and Bioware seems to be pretty effective at getting rid of the very few that have popped up, but in general with credits being fairly easy to come by there is no market for real money purchases of game credits. For this Bioware should be applauded at keeping the gold seller issue that plagues other games from being a non-issue in this one. However, as they add these high credit perks like they have done with legacy they are creating a demand for real money purchases because some players don't want to craft or run daily's or are not market masterminds able to manipulate the galactic market and make fortunes.

 

So kind of an oxy-morn in that earning credits is not overly challenging in this game which defeats the purpose and "need" for gold farmers, yet they add money sinks into the game that can create a demand for real money transactions. Yes the legacy perks are extra's you don't need to play the game for the most part. They are optional. But look at the new augment system. For the min/maxers out there augmenting gear has always been the wet dream. Now everyone can augment gear easily if you have enough credits and it is becoming expected. Want to raid...got to augment your gear to maximize your potential. Want to compete in PvP got to augment. Want to be on a ranked PvP team...got to augment. Augmenting is quickly becoming a must have and the costs associated with it can lead to a credit shortage. Start of 1.3 augments kits where ridiculously expensive but people wanted them and so they paid. Many people blew a lot of credits and others gain lots of credits, plus you had the credit sink of 30k per augment to add to gear.

 

I know I had my main with enough credits that I felt comfortable. I could feed my alts start up credits without breaking the bank. After augments came out and the must augment attitude for raiding and competitive PvP I ended up blowing much of my comfort zone just getting one of my characters set up. Now I am uncomfortable credit wise because I have another 50 that I "need" to augment and alts that still need credits to keep their level of comfort leveling up and personal enjoyment shopping for them . I now have to take time away from things I want to do in game to run daily's to try and rebuild my comfort credit wise. As part of the not a billionaire part of the population, I liked being able to support my alts and only have to run daily's once in a while. Now however, I will need to run daily's on my two lvl 50's daily for several days/weeks to get back to feeling comfortable again to play my alts and not be totally broke. And I have never even bought any of the legacy perks. Still need to augment one of my lvl 50's. Still need income to support alt crafters. Still need credits to tweak out alts while leveling (not necessary but part of the fun is being able to sugar daddy alts).

 

This is the time where gold farmers can find a niche to sell credits for real money. In this time there will be those that would rather spend a few real dollars to gain back "comfort". Not me personally, I am the type if I can not afford to play the game as a game and not a job I will just go find a new game. But there are those that look for the easy road. Bioware has done so well up to now removing the demand for gold sellers. But now they are moving in the direction to reduce credit stores in game and increasing a demand for credits creating the market for gold farmers/sellers in game.

 

While some people may not like it because for them profiting in game is their real enjoyment, I personally think that game currency should be easy to come by and readily available for the express purpose of eliminating the demand for gold sellers. Have seen to many games over run and ruined by real world transactions that gold sellers are the bane of the MMO world. The MMO world can get rid of them themselves by making credits not have a monetary value. Get rid of the demand and their will be no market. No market no profit. No profit no gold sellers.

[Anzel]

The credit sinks in this game are the worst I've ever seen. I understand that money goes into the economy and therefore it must come out. However blatant, unreasonable, sinks are ruining this game.

• Gear repair costs should be reduced by 99.999999%
  
• Mod removal costs should be reduced by 99.9999999%
  
• Augment slot costs (adding a slot) should be reduced by 99.999999%
  
• Respec Costs should be reduced by 99.999999999%
  
• Legacy and Character perks should be reduced by 99.99999999%
  

 

 

If you want to remove credits from the game then provide crafters with schematics for items that the community actually wants. Provide crafters with schematics for CONSUMABLE items, etc. etc. etc.

[tidmass]

You must share your secrets with me, oh wise sage.

.

 

i already shared the secret with you young padawan. but you are too blinded by your own ego to see it.

 

decide your goal.

 

calculate how to achieve that goal.

 

remember that the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

 

let the force guide you..... and take that step.

 

and have patience.

[Daeada]

The credit sinks in this game are the worst I've ever seen. I understand that money goes into the economy and therefore it must come out. However blatant, unreasonable, sinks are ruining this game.

• Gear repair costs should be reduced by 99.999999%
  
• Mod removal costs should be reduced by 99.9999999%
  
• Augment slot costs (adding a slot) should be reduced by 99.999999%
  
• Respec Costs should be reduced by 99.999999999%
  
• Legacy and Character perks should be reduced by 99.99999999%
  

 

 

If you want to remove credits from the game then provide crafters with schematics for items that the community actually wants. Provide crafters with schematics for CONSUMABLE items, etc. etc. etc.

 

Consumable items don't remove currency from the economy, they just transfer it to the person who crafted said consumable. As long as the price to craft is less than the selling price of the consumable item, the crafter is hoarding money. If the price to craft is greater than the selling price, the crafter doesn't make it in the first place.

 

 

• Gear repair costs are fine, as long as your group/self aren't completely failing at the game.
  
• Mod removal costs are a bit steep, granted, but if you want to look like a special snowflake there should be some kind of work associated with that.
  
• Augment slot costs are fine. It is a one-time cost (per piece of armor) for infinite functionality.
  
• Respec Costs will be effectively nullified when we get Dual Spec. Until then, don't respec 5+ times a week?
  
• Legacy and Character perks are fine. Again, one-time costs (either per character or per legacy) for infinite functionality.
  

Edited July 9, 2012 by Daeada

[Tricky-Ha]

Though I agree with the OP, how about everyone just comes up with some constructive criticism rather than launch into another Bioware bashing frenzy. Players wonder why they don't communicate much in the forums and stick to social networking means. So many good threads but then players ruin it with the negativity. I wouldn't listen to feedback if I was being called incompetent among other things.

 

Anyways, yeah the credit sinks are becoming way too frustrating. It's enough that we have to pay to rip out mods, crafters have to pay to farm the materials needed for the kits, but now we have to pay to augment the gear. Way too many credits sinks. I like the Legacy System but I'm not touching anything on it, just isn't worth the credits.

 

I'm of the mind that "YOU" will provide the constructive criticism, since I played that game way before any of these credit sinks were put in the game back when it was still being beta tested. Did it then, can't be bothered to do it now, so instead I let my sub drop in 1 more day & I'll take a few months break from paying BW money to ignore my complaints about excessive credit sinks. Maybe things will change in time but it's a real shame that BW would allow so many of us to leave this game when all we want to do is play a Star Wars MMORPG.

[xukaiwen]

The money sinks really hurt people who level a lot of characters because you really don't make money from level 1-49. Edited July 10, 2012 by xukaiwen

[chimunga]

Another way to lessen the money sink annoyance would be to reduce the price of installing the augment kit if you already have a kit in the piece of gear.

 

Meaning if I already have a MK-1 Augment kit in my gear, it costs 1500 credits instead of 2500 to put in a MK-2. Not perfect, but certainly better than it is now.

[jedip_enguin]

When you need to spend 420000 credits just to install augment kits (thats before dropping a single credit on the kits/augments) something is amiss.

 

I managed get nearly all the mats I needed for my kits and augments without resorting to the GTN for anything other than sliced tech parts and used Advanced 21 augs (which have the same dps stat but one less end) to save money and still ended up spending well over a million creds.

 

And then once I start raiding on my alts the treadmill begins anew...

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

If they're so useless, then why are they in the game? If they're made specifically for level 50's, they should just be for 50's. If they're actually meant for low level characters, they should be priced appropriately.

 

They are not useless but they are unnecessary below level 50 when it comes to general leveling (PvP is a different matter if that is how you intend to level). If you have the craft skills to make them then do so, it makes leveling a bit easier, other wise get them only if you really want to or you have spare cash because you don't need them in PvE.

 

Adding a couple of augments in the lower levels should not deplete your credits.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Arlbo_Nabbins

[Grayseven]

The money sinks really hurt people who level a lot of characters because you really don't make money from level 1-49.

 

Um...wrong.

 

I've made more than enough credits, without selling anything on the GTN, while leveling to pay for everything involved with leveling a character.

 

I have removed mod after mod and replaced them, I have purchased things I've needed, I have paid for skills and cargo hold spots and inventory rows and speeders and the skill to ride those speeders. I have outfitted my main companion in custom gear and kept him fed with my hand-me-down mods I have removed from my armor to make room for better.

 

I have leveled Armormech to max, I have sent my companions on mission after mission for gifts and materials.

 

And at level 47, I still have over 300k credits to this characters name.

 

The credit curve appears to be just fine. The sinks aren't breaking me and the rewards as I level get better and better (nothing like netting 20k credits from selling trash I collected while running a few missions) to the point that I can't wait until I hit 50 and start running dailies.

 

By the way, I've got 3 more characters on this server I'm leveling. On Prophecy of Five I have 6 characters who have all paid their way. I don't even use commendations from one character to outfit another, though I'll probably do that on Shadowlands.

 

The cost of sinks in this game is nothing.

[chimunga]

I've noted Four types of arguments in this thread.

 

1.) People that don't like credit sinks because they can't afford them.

2.) People that can afford credit sinks, but still think they're out of hand.

3.) People who say that credits in this game are easy to get, so credit sinks are just fine.

4.) People who say that credit sinks are a necessary evil and they should stay just the way they are.