Black Hole gear is not an upgrade???

[stesergio]

My BH Merc is currenly in full Rakata gear and I have begun looking at where to spend my Black Hole comms but I don't see how Black Hole gear with level 61 mods and no set bonus is really any better than the Rakata gear I already have with lower level mods. I know I could pull the mods and put them in the Rakata set to keep the set bonus but the way I'm seeing it, the mods are not really better than what is already in the Rakata gear anyway.

 

Here's what I'm looking at....

 

Boltblaster MK1 (chest)

98 Aim

158 End

57 Surge

54 Crit

 

Rakata Eliminator (chest)

122 Aim

105 End

51 Acc

48 Crit

 

So switiching from the Rakata to Black Hole MK1 would result in ...

+36 Armor

+53 End

+57 Surge

+6 Crit

-24 Aim

-51 Acc

 

The increase to armor and endurance is nice, but as a ranged DPS it's not all that important and doesn't improve DPS. Basically I would just be swaping accuracy for surge in addition to loosing 24 aim and the set bonus.

 

I don't have the stats for each individual mod in front of me but both the armoring and the mod has less Aim then the ones in the Rakata gear.

 

It seems like a pretty equal swap more than a clear upgrade but maybe I'm missing something? Is the loss of 24 aim not that big of a deal? Is it made up for when you have the full set? Is having Surge better than having Accuracy? My ranged attack is at 101% and tech is at 111% so I don't think I want to loose accuracy.

 

I'd appreciate if anyone would help shed some light on this and explain what I may be overlooking. Thanks.

Edited July 1, 2012 by stesergio

[Gyronamics]

You have to get multiple pieces and remod.

 

The "obvious" piece of armour to buy is not always (never) the perfect one.

 

The mods on BH and Campaign always have more total stats than the ones they replace. You just need to find the right ones and rearrange them.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Gyronamics

[cortea]

wrong thread. deleted. Edited July 2, 2012 by cortea

[Exiled-Phoenix]

Go look at the campaign legs for BH ;]

[Ihiab]

It's the amount of Surge you're getting that outweighs the loss of Aim and Accuracy. Many of the Mercs in my guild have been talking in vent and I'm not 100% sure on this, but it seems like what they're saying is after a certain point, your Aim and Acc cap out and aren't beneficial in any way.

 

That being said, one of my fellow BHs had about 150 less Aim than another BH but stacked Surg and had a higher overall damage rating and critical chance than the BH with more Aim.

 

So if you look at the Black Hole Armor, you're stacking Surge with it which in turn ups your DPS greatly.

 

Please, anyone correct me if I am wrong, but judging by the way these guys were talking, this is what I gathered. These guys research this crap like its their job and are always trying to improve their gear for PVP.

[JoeeyyMagzz]

It's the amount of Surge you're getting that outweighs the loss of Aim and Accuracy. Many of the Mercs in my guild have been talking in vent and I'm not 100% sure on this, but it seems like what they're saying is after a certain point, your Aim and Acc cap out and aren't beneficial in any way.

 

That being said, one of my fellow BHs had about 150 less Aim than another BH but stacked Surg and had a higher overall damage rating and critical chance than the BH with more Aim.

 

So if you look at the Black Hole Armor, you're stacking Surge with it which in turn ups your DPS greatly.

 

Please, anyone correct me if I am wrong, but judging by the way these guys were talking, this is what I gathered. These guys research this crap like its their job and are always trying to improve their gear for PVP.

 

How could your main stat cap out when it affects several other stats in different ways? I think what they mean is that stacking your main stat is good until that next piece of gear only gives you +5 main stat, but you lose several other stats. But, I definitely would not take a negative hit to main stat... that's just stupid. Main Stat + Power ftw!

Edited July 3, 2012 by JoeeyyMagzz

[Ihiab]

How could your main stat cap out when it affects several other stats in different ways? I think what they mean is that stacking your main stat is good until that next piece of gear only gives you +5 main stat, but you lose several other stats. But, I definitely would not take a negative hit to main stat... that's just stupid. Main Stat + Power ftw!

 

Its called mitigation. Just like armor. When you stack to a cap, but keep stacking, it won't affect anything...kind of like you're wasting the resources that you could be putting into something else. Its like that in every game. There's essentially a cap on everything. You can keep stacking all you want as far as you want possible, but after a certain point its useless. Crit is one of them. You get to 75% and that's it. You can obviously stack more than that, but what's left after the 75 is wasted resources. So regardless if it effects your other stats or not, you're still wasting resources that could benefit you elsewhere.

[Canis_Anubis]

Its called mitigation. Just like armor. When you stack to a cap, but keep stacking, it won't affect anything...kind of like you're wasting the resources that you could be putting into something else. Its like that in every game. There's essentially a cap on everything. You can keep stacking all you want as far as you want possible, but after a certain point its useless. Crit is one of them. You get to 75% and that's it. You can obviously stack more than that, but what's left after the 75 is wasted resources. So regardless if it effects your other stats or not, you're still wasting resources that could benefit you elsewhere.

 

Actually, it's called 'diminishing returns', however, they're barely relevant to your primary stat, and not relevant at all to power. The hard cap to crit from Aim for a BH is 30%. That's about double what you can expect to gain from the best gear available, so DR isn't a factor. Power, be it tech power or 'raw' power, is completely unaffected by DR, as is the effective power gained from Aim.

 

The fact is, the Boltblaster MK-1 Chestguard is itemized badly for a PVE DPS build.

[Ihiab]

Actually, it's called 'diminishing returns', however, they're barely relevant to your primary stat, and not relevant at all to power. The hard cap to crit from Aim for a BH is 30%. That's about double what you can expect to gain from the best gear available, so DR isn't a factor. Power, be it tech power or 'raw' power, is completely unaffected by DR, as is the effective power gained from Aim.

 

The fact is, the Boltblaster MK-1 Chestguard is itemized badly for a PVE DPS build.

 

You are correct, I couldn't remember the name (dr)

 

DR effects everything in the game. Regardless if its your main stat or not. If there's a cap on how care a certain stat can be obtained before it stops working, it will effect the secondary stats as well (in this case, the tech power) If there wasn't any DR, anyone could stack their main as high as they wanted to boost their secondary and be OP.

[stesergio]

So what is the point of deminishing returns for Aim and other stats? How do you know when you have "enough"?

 

I went back and added up the total stats for full BH MK-1 set and full Rakatta set and I don't have the numbers in front of me but there is an overall gain for all but one stat (accuracy I think). So a full set of BH MK-1 is an upgrade but replacing one item at a time often results in an unfavorable loss/gain of stats.

 

Considering that the set bonus can't be moved from the Rakatta items, I'm guessing the best thing for me to do is get the full MK-1 set, remove all the mods and put them into the Rakatta items and then add augment slots to those items as well. Sound right?

[Boanerges_Mevans]

From what I have gathered, DR's are as follows for our relevant stats.

 

Aim - The is none, as it gives a 1:1 boost to power

 

Crit - 30% is currently the point were DR begins to kick in according to the few theorycrafters out there. The only descrepency is in regard to DoT heavy classes (Pyro/Madness).

 

Surge - 70% is the thought to be the current point of DP, but there is some questioning about this "cap" for some builds that are DoT heavy as well.

 

As far as stacking Accuracy for armor pen, or to reduce miss/dodge/resist, I have yet to see noticeable results that favor more than ~108%.

[Flying-Brian]

Considering that the set bonus can't be moved from the Rakatta items, I'm guessing the best thing for me to do is get the full MK-1 set, remove all the mods and put them into the Rakatta items and then add augment slots to those items as well. Sound right?

 

Keep your 4 piece rakata shells, and use an orange chest piece you like (for a semi custom look).

For the BH gear, it's not about getting a full mk-1 set, you need to get multible of some of the pieces to fill out all the stats you need. For example, the legs, gloves and med boots are good as is. You only need the armoring from the helmet and the chest isn't worth it (unless you like the look of it). After that, you need extra gloves and boots for the mods and enhancements.

 

Then augment all 14 of your spots.

[The_Duck]

don't just get 1 piece (boots lets say) and then assume that is the best piece for you. sometimes the medic boots are better than the dps set, etc. you need to check out all the mod options and switch everything around.

 

is it costly? yes

for min/maxers who cares? you can get Best in Slot through Black Hole gear and not necessarily through Campaign gear (not counting weapons). I always pick the armoring piece with the highest AIM (ie 68 aim or whatever). then slot in other mods to fill up your stats as you need.

[Eternalnight]

DR effects everything in the game.

 

Wrong

[Daiyukie]

It's the amount of Surge you're getting that outweighs the loss of Aim and Accuracy. Many of the Mercs in my guild have been talking in vent and I'm not 100% sure on this, but it seems like what they're saying is after a certain point, your Aim and Acc cap out and aren't beneficial in any way.

 

That being said, one of my fellow BHs had about 150 less Aim than another BH but stacked Surg and had a higher overall damage rating and critical chance than the BH with more Aim.

 

So if you look at the Black Hole Armor, you're stacking Surge with it which in turn ups your DPS greatly.

 

Please, anyone correct me if I am wrong, but judging by the way these guys were talking, this is what I gathered. These guys research this crap like its their job and are always trying to improve their gear for PVP.

 

Since Surge hits diminishing returns much harder than main stat, you are incorrect. However, 100 mainstat is slightly less relevant to damage than 100 Power, so the ~50 surge could certainly be more beneficial on crits than the added main stat, depending on your current Surge rating.

 

Stats and How They Work

 

^ Complete with text explanation and graphs.

[Daiyukie]

DR effects everything in the game.

Wrong

 

 

Not wrong, see above post and linked thread.

[Areaz]

You are correct, I couldn't remember the name (dr)

 

DR effects everything in the game. Regardless if its your main stat or not. If there's a cap on how care a certain stat can be obtained before it stops working, it will effect the secondary stats as well (in this case, the tech power) If there wasn't any DR, anyone could stack their main as high as they wanted to boost their secondary and be OP.

 

Except power/tech power gained from aim doesn't DR. So yes, we can stack aim.

[Eternalnight]

Not wrong, see above post and linked thread.

 

Wrong again.

[Canis_Anubis]

You are correct, I couldn't remember the name (dr)

 

DR effects everything in the game. Regardless if its your main stat or not. If there's a cap on how care a certain stat can be obtained before it stops working, it will effect the secondary stats as well (in this case, the tech power) If there wasn't any DR, anyone could stack their main as high as they wanted to boost their secondary and be OP.

 

That is false. The Diminishing returns caps are each applied individually to their respective RATINGS. Which means that the DR from your CRIT rating is calculated independently from your DR from your primary stat. Your crit from skills/buffs is completely unaffected by DR. This basically means that if you had infinite aim and crit rating, your total crit rating before skills would be 60%.

 

But this is all totally irrelevant. In the quantities you can get Aim, with the best possible gear, you aren't anywhere near the 30% limit, because the free crit you get with Aim isn't that much. You would need over 6000 Aim for DR to seriously impact the crit yield of your aim gear.

 

Here's a very good article explaining the DR formula:

 

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/03/calculating-critical-hit-chance/