Bioware PvP really sucks at 50, why is that?

[Jakoby]

Could it be...

 

1) Expertise unbalances player skill aspect discouraging players from grinding PvP gear.

 

2) Could it be many of your favorite PvE abilities are locked out?

 

3) Could it be your favorite toons have been nerfed into obscurity whil others were buffed too much.

 

4) Could it be the Empire players took advantage early on and gained a huge advantage over Republic players during the Ilum days?

 

5) Could it be Republic mechanics are clunky making rotations alot different from Empire players?

 

6) Could it be the matching mechanic does not prorperly match groups based on gear?

 

7) Could it be all of the above?

 

 

I say yes it is, prior to 50 I really enjoy PvP but now even in full Battlemaster my Sage just sucks Post 1.1. I've been nerfed twice, and now my epic project ability looks like a knee capper. I am sooo disgusted. Telekinetics no longer has a place in PvP, one must spec balance or healing to even be considered. I hate to say it but I hear Guild Wars calling. I've given you all the opportunity to fix this game that I can but it just keeps getting worse.

 

It's a sad, sad day.

 

Laters,

 

Jakoby

 

 

PS: Why did you ever put Expertise in this game? That's the person you should be firing, the idiot that made that decision.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Jakoby

[Aaroneus]

Could it be...

 

1) Expertise unbalances player skill aspect discouraging players from grinding PvP gear.

 

2) Could it be many of your favorite PvE abilities are locked out?

 

3) Could it be your favorite toons have been nerfed into obscurity whil others were buffed too much.

 

4) Could it be the Empire players took advantage early on and gained a huge advantage over Republic players during the Ilum days?

 

5) Could it be Republic mechanics are clunky making rotations alot different from Empire players?

 

6) Could it be the matching mechanic does not prorperly match groups based on gear?

 

7) Could it be all of the above?

 

 

I say yes it is, prior to 50 I really enjoy PvP but now even in full Battlemaster my Sage just sucks Post 1.1. I've been nerfed twice, and now my epic project ability looks like a knee capper. I am sooo disgusted. Telekinetics no longer has a place in PvP, one must spec balance or healing to even be considered. I hate to say it but I hear Guild Wars calling. I've given you all the opportunity to fix this game that I can but it just keeps getting worse.

 

It's a sad, sad day.

 

Laters,

 

Jakoby

 

 

PS: Why did you ever put Expertise in this game? That's the person you should be firing, the idiot that made that decision.

 

OK, I'm just going to say one thing,

 

Bend over and brace for the flaming that you are about the receive from everyone else who clicks on this thread.

[unixbomber]

.4) Could it be the Empire players took advantage early on and gained a huge advantage over Republic players during the Ilum days?

 

lolwut...

 

Could it be you? It likely is.

[vojinsa]

OK, I'm just going to say one thing,

 

Bend over and brace for the flaming that you are about the receive from everyone else who clicks on this thread.

 

w/o lube.

[NilanVoid]

Could it be you? It likely is.

 

^^ This about sums it up nicely

[paul_preib]

Could it be...

 

1) Expertise unbalances player skill aspect discouraging players from grinding PvP gear.

 

Campaign geared player vs. Tionese player with expertise removed would fare no better then recruit v. war hero. The reason 10-49 isn't as bad is that few bother to gear to the utmost in leveling garb. Put a level 49 in all top end purple mods, throw some augments on him as well and see how he stacks up against the competition, expertise or no expertise.

 

2) Could it be many of your favorite PvE abilities are locked out?

 

Favorite PVE abilities locked out..... You mean heroic moment? with a both a sorc and a sage I can't think of any key abilities I cannot use in pvp that I'd actively use in a group in pve.

 

3) Could it be your favorite toons have been nerfed into obscurity whil others were buffed too much.

Have a sage, sorc, and commando along with my supposedly OP sentinel. Love those classes just as much as my sentinel for the diversity I bring to the fight.

 

4) Could it be the Empire players took advantage early on and gained a huge advantage over Republic players during the Ilum days?

Only one of my 50's is empire, the others are all republic. I don't see a drastic gear discrepancy. 1.2's gear reboot with easily obtained BM essentially nullified this.

 

 

5) Could it be Republic mechanics are clunky making rotations alot different from Empire players?

 

Project delay went bye-bye. While I prefer my Sorc's animations that's only aesthetically, the mechanics aside from project are just fine-- which was coincidentally just fixed

 

6) Could it be the matching mechanic does not prorperly match groups based on gear?

Why should it? I am a 90% solo queuer, I know going in its a grab bag, when on my War hero geared toons I know I have just as much chance being on a stacked team as one where no one else has 15000 health, and thus the flip is true when I'm on a fresh 50.

7) Could it be all of the above?

 

Nope, there are some issues with pvp sure, but 1-6 all feel superficial and poorly thought out at this juncture

 

 

I say yes it is, prior to 50 I really enjoy PvP but now even in full Battlemaster my Sage just sucks Post 1.1. I've been nerfed twice, and now my epic project ability looks like a knee capper. I am sooo disgusted.

The animation does not look as good, but you know what, the delay was fixed so mechanically it is vastly improved-- this makes my Sage very happy. Disgusted... errr... ok.

 

Telekinetics no longer has a place in PvP, one must spec balance or healing to even be considered

 

Lightning/Telekinetics only had a place as a hybrid spec in 1.2. Its value was pebble spam procc'd insta telekinetic wave. No one realistically put more then 25 points there (the most one can apply while retaining presence of mind), while anyone going deeper then 13/28 did so only for effusion and overload's bind nothing to do with the trees actual damage.

 

. I hate to say it but I hear Guild Wars calling. I've given you all the opportunity to fix this game that I can but it just keeps getting worse.

 

1.2 paved the way for my new favorite spec, a heal/balance hybrid so while I hated losing 13/28 I actually have more fun spending 80% of the time healing and 20% punching pebble-presence of mind-- > mind crush--> force in balance combos that take people off guard.

 

It's a sad, sad day.

 

Laters,

 

Jakoby

 

 

PS: Why did you ever put Expertise in this game? That's the person you should be firing, the idiot that made that decision.

So that raiding group that has the top progression content on farm doesn't chew up those dedicated primarily to pvp alone

 

 

 

 

Any more ideas?

 

I am a republic player (primarily) who is decent but never going to be considered among the elite of the server, queues solo, plays multiple classes including sage, and has multiple characters to gear.

 

I should be the most sympathetic person to your plight but instead it strikes strikes me as mindless caterwauling.

Edited June 27, 2012 by paul_preib

[Jakoby]

Wait, hold you flames I forgot a couple more...

 

8) PvP is now so full of lag your abilities often lag, chat lags, players rubber band causing your knock backs to fail or be missplaced.

 

9) Post 1.3 abilities are not working or lagging so bad you press the 4 or 5 times only to screw up your rotations.

 

 

Ok, flame on. It's just me , I suck. I beleive that's where you left off...

[Skendra]

First off, i will start with a story of how i once fought 50's as lvl 10! It was bad.... very, very bad. Got smashed down in 1-2 hits, being focused only coz i was lvl 10 and so on, but i didn't cry.

Then BW gave us brackets when i was around 45 and it was awesome to stomp on lvl 10's, i was PRO.

On turning 50, i was again in ********, being stomped by better geard players. And again didn't cry.

 

1) Nothing discouraged me to get better and to get new gear.

2) Still not a big issue but i would like to see skills usable when enemy is slowed/stunned.

3) Won't comment this or any other "nerf this, buff that" topic

4) Not on all servers

5) Not really, i play both, guardian and jugg

6) Why? Thanks to all whining, losing team gets same amount of WZ comm's as winners and daily is doable

7) NO!

 

BW stated that to play healer takes more skill and DPS sage just suck, live with it. (didn't read rest)

 

P.S. All games i played had PvP stat and i like it. If i want PvP i'll get PvP gear instead of endless farming on FP/OPS/heroics for RANDOM drop.

[oldshatterhand]

Real PvP starts at 50, the rest is a joke. All of us geared players that you now cry about went through the same process when hitting 50, and it was a lot harder because you had no free recruit gear, you had to work for every piece of equipment and had to play for quite a while with low expertise.

 

Also Champion and Battlemaster gear were based on RNG rather then buying it straight with comms so gearing up was significantly longer and more frustrating. However we did it so why can't you? Every patch this game was made easier for fresh 50 players so maybe you should stop crying and start playing.

[Jadescythe]

Wait, hold you flames I forgot a couple more...

 

8) PvP is now so full of lag your abilities often lag, chat lags, players rubber band causing your knock backs to fail or be missplaced.

 

9) Post 1.3 abilities are not working or lagging so bad you press the 4 or 5 times only to screw up your rotations.

 

 

Ok, flame on. It's just me , I suck. I beleive that's where you left off...

 

Seeing as your other posts have included making everyone do PVE to get gear and taking out PVP as a way to get gear entirely, you clearly don't like PVP. That's probably why it sucks for you, not any of the reasons you have stated already. Just because you love PVE doesn't mean everyone has to like it. I say we force only you to PVP to get gear for PVE. No drops in FPs/ops for you. You'll have to keep grinding PVP to complete your other content.

[Jakoby]

Any more ideas?

 

I am a republic player (primarily) who is decent but never going to be considered among the elite of the server, queues solo, plays multiple classes including sage, and has multiple characters to gear.

 

I should be the most sympathetic person to your plight but instead it strikes strikes me as mindless caterwauling.

 

You are all obviously a Bioware advocates so I will just say this. There are those of us that love the concept of this game, we are Star Wars fans. When that love dies cold there are many other games that are far better mechanically and many will migrate in those directions. My simple argument is this, casual players are greatly disadvantaged and highy disgusted by expertise. They are leaving in droves, many of my friends are now gone Beta testing Guild Wars. You can hold on to your whole fanboy world where you think everything is fine but in about 2 months your going to see server mergers big time. This game from the beginning is nothing more than a WoW reskin. Wow is several years old and people are looking for something new, not the same old mechanic that so many have copied.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Jakoby

[paul_preib]

You are obviously a Bioware advocate so I will just say this. There are those of us that love the concept of this game, we are Star Wars fans. When that love dies cold there are many other games that are far better mechanically and many will migrate in those directions. My simple argument is this, casual players are greatly disadvantaged and highy disgusted by expertise. They are leaving in droves, many of my friends are now gone Beta testing Guild Wars. You can hold on to your whole fanboy world where you think everything is fine but in about 2 months your going to see server mergers big time. This game from the beginning is nothing more than a WoW reskin. Wow is several years old and people are looking for something new, not the same old mechanic that so many have copied.

 

If its all about expertise then I return to the original statement

 

What separates a player in rated 126 gear (tionese, 22 mods, etc.) from Someone in rated 146?

 

How do you think entry level pvpers would do against the raider who has achieved his gear in that fashion? The discrepancy would be just as large.

 

 

Use a bolster mechanic to make all pvpers on equal gear footing and watch how fast people lose interest from 'pure' pvp sans carrot.

 

 

I hope guild wars 2 makes you happy and fulfills what you want of a game. Personally I would rather wait and see what people think a couple months into live then at the beta phase.

 

 

The game, and the class are not perfect, there are plenty of things to fix. The issues you bring up however are not among them as the expertise mechanic serves an important purpose that would drive away more people if it were removed (i.e. BiS pvp gear becoming top end raid gear) then it will by remaining in place.

Edited June 27, 2012 by paul_preib

[Durasturan]

You are all obviously a Bioware advocates so I will just say this. There are those of us that love the concept of this game, we are Star Wars fans. When that love dies cold there are many other games that are far better mechanically and many will migrate in those directions. My simple argument is this, casual players are greatly disadvantaged and highy disgusted by expertise. They are leaving in droves, many of my friends are now gone Beta testing Guild Wars. You can hold on to your whole fanboy world where you think everything is fine but in about 2 months your going to see server mergers big time. This game from the beginning is nothing more than a WoW reskin. Wow is several years old and people are looking for something new, not the same old mechanic that so many have copied.

 

Non-sequiter, red herring, adhominem, false choice (dichotomy), disgusted or lazy? Guild Wars sucks, I played the Beta. You can't even play a WoW reskin well, what if they changed it too much? You'd be even worse at it.

 

 

PvP is fine, sorc/sage is a little underpowered right now while scoun/op heals is a little op, but that's just because of mobility.

 

Having fun, love the game, maybe you should be forming a group for ranked and gearing up instead of crying about how expertise is unfair. if you don't want to do that, then please go cry on someone else's forums, you're wasting bandwidth that could be used for something more productive.

[Sinemetu]

Expertise isn't the issue. I've leveled three characters primarily through PvP, and at level 40 got a full set of PvP gear. I can tell you that the gear discrepancy between a fully geared and bolstered 40 is worse than BM vs Recruit and mixed BM (because honestly, how long do you only wear recruit?). You can have 15k+ health in a WZ where everyone else has 11 or 12k, and expect to take most players on in a 1v2 situation if they don't have the same gear. Heck, my assassin has killed a person 1v4 and vanished successfully. That doesn't really happen at 50 because everyone has all their abilities and more similar gear.

 

I think the problem here is that we have a player who was PvPing at 48 and 49 and killing everyone because their enemies had half the abilities and talents, ("I totally pwned those level 15 n00bs!") and now is getting curbstomped on a more level playing field.

 

If there's a problem at 50 it's that people are much more aware of all their CC and use it way too much. I'm tired of having my healer get pushed around the map by guardians.

[Regulaser]

Could it be...

 

1) Expertise unbalances player skill aspect discouraging players from grinding PvP gear.

 

2) Could it be many of your favorite PvE abilities are locked out?

 

3) Could it be your favorite toons have been nerfed into obscurity whil others were buffed too much.

 

4) Could it be the Empire players took advantage early on and gained a huge advantage over Republic players during the Ilum days?

 

5) Could it be Republic mechanics are clunky making rotations alot different from Empire players?

 

6) Could it be the matching mechanic does not prorperly match groups based on gear?

 

7) Could it be all of the above?

 

 

I say yes it is, prior to 50 I really enjoy PvP but now even in full Battlemaster my Sage just sucks Post 1.1. I've been nerfed twice, and now my epic project ability looks like a knee capper. I am sooo disgusted. Telekinetics no longer has a place in PvP, one must spec balance or healing to even be considered. I hate to say it but I hear Guild Wars calling. I've given you all the opportunity to fix this game that I can but it just keeps getting worse.

 

It's a sad, sad day.

 

Laters,

 

Jakoby

 

 

PS: Why did you ever put Expertise in this game? That's the person you should be firing, the idiot that made that decision.

 

answered your own question. thats all it comes down to. expertise needs to go.

[Sendai_S]

I am continuously shocked by the selfish behaviour I see in the PVP threads.

 

Mostly, "no, I want to keep my huge advantage." and "No you should suffer."

 

What boggles the mind is how those of you who say this don't see the harm you are doing to yourselves. In order to PVP you need people to PVP with. Without KEEPING the new people coming in, you are only going to bleed people who are gradually leaving. The disparity between the recruit and fully auged War Hero gear is HUGE.

 

Of course, it's natural. Why would you want a fair fight? One of the guys on this particular subsection of the forum actually stated that he didn't think fair fights were fun. That he wants to the advantage in order to play and enjoy it. In other words, he wants the guaranteed win, and therefore everyone else should have worse gear than he, and he will do and say anything to make sure that continues to happen.

 

Big picture people. Look at the bigger picture.

[paul_preib]

I am continuously shocked by the selfish behaviour I see in the PVP threads.

 

Mostly, "no, I want to keep my huge advantage." and "No you should suffer."

 

What boggles the mind is how those of you who say this don't see the harm you are doing to yourselves. In order to PVP you need people to PVP with. Without KEEPING the new people coming in, you are only going to bleed people who are gradually leaving. The disparity between the recruit and fully auged War Hero gear is HUGE.

 

Of course, it's natural. Why would you want a fair fight? One of the guys on this particular subsection of the forum actually stated that he didn't think fair fights were fun. That he wants to the advantage in order to play and enjoy it. In other words, he wants the guaranteed win, and therefore everyone else should have worse gear than he, and he will do and say anything to make sure that continues to happen.

 

Big picture people. Look at the bigger picture.

 

Ok big picture take away expertise, now fresh 50's with 126 rated gear and below are up against folks in 146 campaign gear and we have the same argument again gearwise just no expertise

[Zepidel]

The disparity between the recruit and fully auged War Hero gear is HUGE.

 

Do you know whats even bigger? the disparity between tionese and fully augmented campaign gear. Removing pvp gear makes no sense, the gear advantage would still be there it would just be people with 14k HPs and 1400 mainstat vs people with 23k+ HPs and 2300 mainstat.

[Sendai_S]

Ok big picture take away expertise, now fresh 50's with 126 rated gear and below are up against folks in 146 campaign gear and we have the same argument again gearwise just no expertise

 

Not the arguement I made at all. But it is the same arguement. The problem that you actually just pointed out is that PVP is the equivalent of a story mode player fighting a nightmare mode player. And that's right out of hte box as you hit 50.

 

Expertise is not the solution to the PVP vs PVE arguement as well.

 

The expertise curve gap needs to be simply lowered and brought more in-line. The hardcore auged war heroes will stilll have the advantage but they need to stop 3 shotting the fresh 50s. Personally I don't like to utter steamroll soemone in PVP. I know how bad they must feel when that happens and I want them to learn but being steamrolled doesn't help them learn. 9 out 10 times it turns them off to PVP and they won't come back.

[Sendai_S]

Do you know whats even bigger? the disparity between tionese and fully augmented campaign gear. Removing pvp gear makes no sense, the gear advantage would still be there it would just be people with 14k HPs and 1400 mainstat vs people with 23k+ HPs and 2300 mainstat.

 

What's your argument? All you did was state some facts and not actually contribute anything usefull to the issue at hand. Or was stating the facts your way of saying you want to keep your advantage over new people, dominate them, crush their spirits and essentially chase them away from playing the game, thus elimnating any competition so that you can be the undisputed king of PVP in a wasteland populated by only other people exactly like you?

 

Supposition.

 

So please elaborate. What do you think the solution is - the solution to help PVP become better as a whole in the game, so that all people can enjoy it whether they win or lose?

[Fafryd]

My new 50 was very competitive in PVP even when in half recruit gear. Just sayin'.

[DarthOvertone]

w/o lube.

 

Just waiting for someone to drop the soap.

[Aehgo]

"I really suck at pvp at 50,why is that?"

Fixed your title.

[revgd_freeze]

I saw this thread, and didn't even both reading past the first post.

 

Here's how it goes:

 

You get to Lvl 50 (congratulations) you (now thanks to 1.3) get a PvP Terminal mission giving you free recruit gear or 320,000 credits. You go and wear/buy the recruit gear, you enter WZ, you get ****ed in the ***** till you get enough coms to buy BM, you get full BM set and then go and get ****ed in the ***** by some dude with WH gear. You then spend weeks getting WH gear and then get smashed by some dude who just plays better than you.

 

Then again, you could just enjoy PvP.

 

At the moment i have 50% BH and 50% recruit, i'm happy to get 3 coms.

 

Look at yourself before the game.

 

*edit* - Learn to work hard for what you want, don't expect hand outs. I actually disapprove of the free recruit gear, but it was fun getting 320000 credits

Edited June 27, 2012 by revgd_freeze

[Zepidel]

What's your argument? All you did was state some facts and not actually contribute anything usefull to the issue at hand. Or was stating the facts your way of saying you want to keep your advantage over new people, dominate them, crush their spirits and essentially chase them away from playing the game, thus elimnating any competition so that you can be the undisputed king of PVP in a wasteland populated by only other people exactly like you?

 

Supposition.

 

So please elaborate. What do you think the solution is - the solution to help PVP become better as a whole in the game, so that all people can enjoy it whether they win or lose?

 

The basis of this thread and the OPs posts in this thread and others is that PvP gear should be removed and players should be forced to do PvE to get gear. I was merely noting the flaw in this suggestion by pointing out that the gear disparity would still exist if PvP gear were removed. If you're going to remove gear disparity you're going to have to remove it on both fronts, pvp and pve.

 

My solution? my solution is to save up 3500 rated coms and 2000 normal coms pre 50. Then when you hit 50 buy half your BM gear, augment it, then fill in the rest with recruit. You're competitive right out of the gates and it will only take you a week to fill in your remaining recruit with BM. Wouldn't be a terrible idea to let players start buying BM before they hit level 50 either.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Zepidel