cross server play is only real fix

[Valkirus]

Correct on one level, incorrect on another. Allow me to quote my previous example.

 

 

 

So yeah, more groups will be formed, but DPS (the ones who are complaining about queue times) will potentially have longer queue times. This was on page 3 of the thread...

 

Yes. Dps allways has longer que times and this is logical. All I know is...it works well in WoW with thier cross server LFG tool and it works decent in Rift's too. I can get into a que as dps for any content the LFG allows me to...and if it is for a "random" event, my wait times are on average 15 mins.

 

Example: some nights a few of us in the guild will run a raid using thier cross server LFG tool and our wait times as dps was like 18 mins. For a random heroic dungeon..the wait tmes are usually less. Now if you want to run a 'specific" one, then your wait times are going to be a lot longer. Because the tool has to draw from the players who also may happen to want to run that specail one.

 

Another example is Rift's LFG tool which is also cross server. I am playing it as a FTP up to level 20 and I qued up for it as dps and had to wait about 30 mins to get into a group. And they have a much smaller player base. If thier's had been same server only..the wait time would have been much longer , it it ever got formed.

[netskink]

You guys actual sort of wanted Heavily Populated Servers. Be careful what you wish for.

 

I don't want cross server anything. There are so many people on fatman now, its impossible to keep track of these people. I meet people and they are cool but since i play on different 50s I have a hard time keeping up with them. Such a pity friends list are not per legacy.

[YanksfanJP]

Yes. Dps allways has longer que times and this is logical. All I know is...it works well in WoW with thier cross server LFG tool and it works decent in Rift's too. I can get into a que as dps for any content the LFG allows me to...and if it is for a "random" event, my wait times are on average 15 mins.

 

It works well in WoW because there are more people who are a) willing to tank; and b) who have tank as an off-spec they can instantly switch to because of dual spec.

 

Honestly, dual spec would be a more effective solution than cross server LFG.

[Daeada]

It's a highly contrived scenario that you concocted to support something you already believed to be true. One could do the same thing and "prove" that same server LFG will be a complete failure.

 

How, exactly, is it highly contrived. It's common knowledge that LFG tools have a shortage of tanks and healers. The perfect server would have a 25% tank, 25% healer, 50% dps population using the LFG tool. Granted there may be servers that are actually low on dps, but that is EXTREMELY rare.

 

Fact is, the closer your server is to 25/25/50, the better off you are. Some servers are fairly well balanced, others are not. Those that aren't will INCREASE dps queue times for those that are, and those that are will DECREASE dps queue times for those that aren't, if combined into a cross server model. Thing is, most servers don't have good balance, so it usually only results in a small total decrease in wait time, possibly even breaking even.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Daeada

[Jederix]

The LFG have been out for a day, all the ninja looters and rude players who are landing on the ignore list of many will start to feel the impact in a couple of weeks. Besides there are already some excellent arguments in this thread that points out the flaw in thinking the cross server LFG will lessen the queue time.

 

No they won't. No one cares about your blacklist outside the small list of people you play with. Go spamming chat channels about ninja looters and what-not and guess who gets ignored (it isn't the ninja-looter, in case you can't figure it out).

 

Xserver is the next step. Argue all you want about whether or not it is needed; it will come. Everyone should be fighting to make sure that when it does come, the same server toggle is part of it. No reason to not have the best of both worlds.

[Valkirus]

It works well in WoW because there are more people who are a) willing to tank; and b) who have tank as an off-spec they can instantly switch to because of dual spec.

 

Honestly, dual spec would be a more effective solution than cross server LFG.

 

I agree about dual specs. TOR needs those. But that alone would not help those on the 100+ servers find groups and even on the dozen NA servers with good pops, it would only help some. With a cross server tool along with dual specs....a good combination for getting grps faster on "any" server.

[MasterKayote]

Its kind of obvious those servers are going away...eventually. They are building super servers (assumed) now.

 

Bioware isn't going to pay the maintenance and rental fee on a hundred servers they aren't really using. Everyone will be forced off or risk losing their character.

 

Adapt or get left out. That's the truth.

 

This.

 

Its safe to assume those servers will be merged soon. Its inevitable. Theyre just giving you all the chance to leave on your own terms rather than tell you, youre leaving NOW! Eventually they will though ... low as they are Im sure those servers are bleeding money. Hate to use this phrase here but, "resistance is futile."

 

Those of you complaining about wait times on your origin server arent really making much of a case. Youre not supposed to be in that server anymore. Its a hole youve chosen to stay in and the ladder is still there for you to climb out.

 

LFG is working just fine over here BTW! Last night, queued up as tank for Hammer Station at 11:30pm EST ... popped instantly. Out of curiousity I asked the DPS how long they were waiting ... both said about 30 minutes.

 

You may be thinking ... "oh but you were a tank ... no wonder you got in instantly." True, but I remember a certain game called Rift where even as a tank my queues did not pop for about an hour while they had single server LFG. So this same server tool is working just fine. It may not be as instant gratification as WoWs xserver (though it definitely seems just as fast to me) but its already proving extremely useful in getting groups together.

 

And it can only get better as they debug the tool and make it so it ports you back to the area you were at before you ported making it more attractive to all players to use while out questing.

[Zaemiel]

Guys, really, super server is the only solution that fits to everyone. May be agree on this one?

[Valkirus]

This.

 

 

You may be thinking ... "oh but you were a tank ... no wonder you got in instantly." True, but I remember a certain game called Rift where even as a tank my queues did not pop for about an hour while they had single server LFG. So this same server tool is working just fine. It may not be as instant gratification as WoWs xserver (though it definitely seems just as fast to me) but its already proving extremely useful in getting groups together.

 

 

Rift's is cross server now and the other night...playing on the FTP up to level 20, I qued as dps and was in the run in about 30 mins. And Rift has a pretty small player base. But being cross server does help get the grps together faster.

[FourTwent]

Guys, really, super server is the only solution that fits to everyone. May be agree on this one?

 

A super server would be the same thing as cross server thought right?

 

I mean why not let the community at LEAST have the ability to balance itself out if they want to decrease queue times. Sure you can still do this with mega servers and cross server. But managing a smaller subset of people is going to be WAY easier than the entire playerbase.

 

I'm not against mega servers since that in and of itself brings a lot of other benefits to the table, but I really really enjoy having a smaller community to play in rather than the massive pool. It becomes easier for the community to police themselves if it's smaller and is easier/more common to build relationships with people in the smaller communities.

[Leovinus]

Rift's is cross server now and the other night...playing on the FTP up to level 20, I qued as dps and was in the run in about 30 mins. And Rift has a pretty small player base. But being cross server does help get the grps together faster.

 

Maybe marginally, but it won't be noticeable, unless the number of people queueing per server is extremely low, like perhaps less than 3 or 4 times the group size. Because statistically speaking, you'll still end up with the same proportion of tanks:healers:dps on each server once the number queueing is large enough. If it's 2:1:40, it won't matter if there are 1 or 100 servers in the pool, you'll still be waiting on healers for the same amount of time.

 

I suspect this has been stated before. In this thread. Several times.

[FourTwent]

Maybe marginally, but it won't be noticeable, unless the number of people queueing per server is extremely low, like perhaps less than 3 or 4 times the group size. Because statistically speaking, you'll still end up with the same proportion of tanks:healers:dps on each server once the number queueing is large enough. If it's 2:1:40, it won't matter if there are 1 or 100 servers in the pool, you'll still be waiting on healers for the same amount of time.

 

I suspect this has been stated before. In this thread. Several times.

 

There has been a lot of things repeated again and again in this thread xD

 

It's a very sensitive subject though, so I get that everyone thinks their way is the best. Whatever Bioware ends up sticking with(cause we know they will easily change their mind if they think it'll help) with a controversial one. If they do introduce cross server they will lose some subs and be threatened to lose more because of it. . .and if they stick with single server, threads will continue to pop up saying why Bioware is wrong for not giving us cross server queues.

 

So they're damned if they do and they're damned if they dont. As a community, all we can do is continue to voice our opinion and hope the devs are keeping a tally for each side, and reading the legitimate concerns that each side has about the issue.

Edited June 28, 2012 by FourTwent

[Valkirus]

Maybe marginally, but it won't be noticeable, unless the number of people queueing per server is extremely low, like perhaps less than 3 or 4 times the group size. Because statistically speaking, you'll still end up with the same proportion of tanks:healers:dps on each server once the number queueing is large enough. If it's 2:1:40, it won't matter if there are 1 or 100 servers in the pool, you'll still be waiting on healers for the same amount of time.

 

I suspect this has been stated before. In this thread. Several times.

 

That is not true, makes no difference how many times it is said. Using that logic, with TORs smaller grp size of 4 instead of 5, the wait times should be even less. So you have one less dps slot to fill.

 

And apparently it did make a big difference in Rift if you consider the poster I quoted was having 30 mins wait times as a tank..

Edited June 28, 2012 by Valkirus

[Valkirus]

There has been a lot of things repeated again and again in this thread xD

 

It's a very sensitive subject though, so I get that everyone thinks their way is the best. Whatever Bioware ends up sticking with(cause we know they will easily change their mind if they think it'll help) with a controversial one. If they do introduce cross server they will lose some subs and be threatened to lose more because of it. . .and if they stick with single server, threads will continue to pop up saying why Bioware is wrong for not giving us cross server queues.

 

So they're damned if they do and they're damned if they dont. As a community, all we can do is continue to voice our opinion and hope the devs are keeping a tally for each side, and reading the legitimate concerns that each side has about the issue.

 

When WoW went to a cross server LFG tool, they did so not based on the forums complaints, but rather thier own data which showed them a large percentage of thier player base was not getting to experence dungeons runs as they would like to see. And sence it's inception, that same data shows them this has increased dramatically. Reason why they are expanding it even more in thier next expansion.

[Kourage]

When WoW went to a cross server LFG tool, they did so not based on the forums complaints, but rather thier own data which showed them a large percentage of thier player base was not getting to experence dungeons runs as they would like to see. And sence it's inception, that same data shows them this has increased dramatically. Reason why they are expanding it even more in thier next expansion.

 

WoW has dual specs and a bonus for filling the role most needed.They also made their group finder same server only in the beginning. A lot of people complained about the behavior and treatment by other players after it went cross-server. Never did I see so many people just insult other players, intentionally wipe groups, or just leave on a whim as after cross-server groups. Before cross-server battlegrounds, we fought players and guilds we were familiar with. Now, we fight complete strangers all the time. There's no admiration or fear of a well know team or player.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Kourage

[Streams]

I doubt cross server would fix anything.

 

More tanks, more healers and a lot of dpsers added. And then, we have really big servers. So the only thing cross server brings to the table is more strangers.

[NotSevv]

No, the only x server should be ranked warzones 8 man ques for competition and bragging rights if anything. If you chose to stay on your server that is your problem.

[Leovinus]

That is not true, makes no difference how many times it is said. Using that logic, with TORs smaller grp size of 4 instead of 5, the wait times should be even less. So you have one less dps slot to fill.

 

And apparently it did make a big difference in Rift if you consider the poster I quoted was having 30 mins wait times as a tank..

 

Having played RIFT, I imagine this happened because of my first point. The numbers queueing were simply too low to support a single server tool. They just didn't meet population requirements to approach similarity, statistically speaking. And as for the WoW data, I obviously can't know for sure, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the places it was helping was in the low to mid game, NOT end game. Unless servers there are actually fairly sparsely populated (at least with folks who want to do endgame group dungeons, which may be true). It simply makes no sense that a medium to large size imbalanced pool would match slower than a gigantic, similarly imbalanced pool.

 

I think the non-end game dungeons possibly could benefit from x-server, but keep it out of HM and Ops group finder. You'll do nothing for queue times and destroy any sense of community accountability.

[Skirata_Kal]

You'll do nothing for queue times and destroy any sense of community accountability.

 

What community? What accountability?

 

The only evidence of 'community' I've seen in this game, whether the server is high pop or low pop, has been via guilds. Xserver would have no effect on them.

 

Accountability? LOL. That hasn't existed since Vanilla WoW (maybe a little bit into BC). Reporting someone, nowadays gets you, the reporter mocked and placed on 'do not invite' lists.

 

Every bad behavior associated with xserver, existed in same server groups long before the xserver tool and have already occured in this game both before the lfd tool and since.

[Leovinus]

What community? What accountability?

 

The only evidence of 'community' I've seen in this game, whether the server is high pop or low pop, has been via guilds. Xserver would have no effect on them.

 

Accountability? LOL. That hasn't existed since Vanilla WoW (maybe a little bit into BC). Reporting someone, nowadays gets you, the reporter mocked and placed on 'do not invite' lists.

 

Every bad behavior associated with xserver, existed in same server groups long before the xserver tool and have already occured in this game both before the lfd tool and since.

 

Not true. (and I said community accountability, one term, not two) You screw around with people on your own server, you get blacklisted. Might take a while, but it will happen. You get put on more and more ignore lists, and you don't get matched. Sooner or later it will become obvious and bad seeds will change their ways or quit. X-server populations are probably TOO big for this to have an effect. And once people realize they can get away with it without ramifications, that behavior's prevalence will explode. Because let's face it, the vast majority of the population will do whatever it feels it can get away with. And anonymity fuels that like nothing else.

[Enochx]

I haven't read very many of these posts, but the answer is simple.

 

Higher populated servers fixes the majority populations problems.

 

OP, you have to choose. are you really that attached to your name that you would rather stay in your ghost town of a server just to be stubborn and keep your name? Why not just add a symbol, hash mark, accent mark, etc to a letter? If your name is so cool to you, why not create an equally cool name? Is it really worth it to keep a name that no one will ever see but you because there is no one logged in on your server or make a new name for everyone to see?

 

As far as x-servers go.....it has been my experience and from everything I, personally, have heard and seen it is a bad bad thing. The time was right for cross servers on WoW when it came out, but crossservers have to be done at the right time. Now is NOT the time for this game. it will ruin it. for many it ruined WoW, but for here I feel it ruin it for all. perhaps in the future, but not now.

[Skidrowbro]

When WoW went to a cross server LFG tool, they did so not based on the forums complaints, but rather thier own data which showed them a large percentage of thier player base was not getting to experence dungeons runs as they would like to see. And sence it's inception, that same data shows them this has increased dramatically. Reason why they are expanding it even more in thier next expansion.

 

WoW went cross server because there was thousands, if not hundreds of thousands who are not willing to shell out $25 a toon to transfer off their dead servers.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Skidrowbro

[Urael]

What community? What accountability?

 

The only evidence of 'community' I've seen in this game, whether the server is high pop or low pop, has been via guilds. Xserver would have no effect on them.

 

Accountability? LOL. That hasn't existed since Vanilla WoW (maybe a little bit into BC). Reporting someone, nowadays gets you, the reporter mocked and placed on 'do not invite' lists.

 

Every bad behavior associated with xserver, existed in same server groups long before the xserver tool and have already occured in this game both before the lfd tool and since.

 

Agree.

[Tahana]

So I should change my char's name and legacy names ( which are very important to me from a role playing view ) because of BioWare's blunders? I donot think so. Thier solution is unacceptable to me. They have failed so far to come up with a solution which is acceptable to a wide range of thier player base. At this point however, it may be too late.

 

So then you chose to play either with a small group of people or yourself. It was a decision available to you.. Everyone knew the options going into this.. If your legacy and name are that important to you so be it.. I don't know of any company that will make wide or sweeping changes based on one customer. Unfortunately there are losses in business and BW made a choice between loosing many or loosing a few. The prudent business choice is to loose a few.

[Tahana]

Yes. Dps allways has longer que times and this is logical. All I know is...it works well in WoW with thier cross server LFG tool and it works decent in Rift's too. I can get into a que as dps for any content the LFG allows me to...and if it is for a "random" event, my wait times are on average 15 mins. .

 

Blizzard Dev's have stated that if they had the LFG to do over agian they wouldn't have done it cross server. They have had to put more time, money and resources into that one feature than anything else in that game. They have had to put all kinds of controls on it because of the cross server idiots who ruin other peoples play, or kick someone for stupid reasons. They had to incent tanks and healers to even go into the queue because not enough of them were... Yeah it has worked real well for them all right..