Technohic Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 you know what this game needs? it needs a group pull and what better ability to attach it to that guarded by the force in the focus tree which already has talents built around guarded by the force! I mean we clearly need more buffs for sentinel, there are still people who play other classes! Group pull? That would be totally awesome! And I should be able to pull the entire group no matter how far apart they are and regardless of whether I have LOS; right to the spot immediately in front of me. Get to work bioware. I will be waiting either at the fire pit in Hutt Ball or the edge of the bridge in Voidstar patiently for this skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 The NPC bounty hunters have a mass grapple so if anyone should get one, it might as well be PTs. For balance reasons, it should pull every ally and every enemy indiscriminately within 100m so you can't just pull 8 guys to a fire pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawiki Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Force Shroud allows you to escape from a lot of white attacks because it denies the enemy from having a favorable setup for certain big white attacks. For example it's way harder to get a full Ravage going on someone with Force Shroud because he can usually just walk away from it comfortably since Force Shroud prevents almost all movement impairing effects. Most of the powerful white attacks have some kind of dependency on other attacks/debuffs. Yes they can use Slash on you fine but it's not like you're worried about dying to such a basic attack. Yes it is a great ability, However it IS NOT comparable to UR. Thats my point. You can still take damage and at times large amounts of damage. At the absolute very best it extends your life as long as UR. UR hands down is a far better surviability mechanic then FS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethroin Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 The NPC bounty hunters have a mass grapple so if anyone should get one, it might as well be PTs. For balance reasons, it should pull every ally and every enemy indiscriminately within 100m so you can't just pull 8 guys to a fire pit. I'd like to add to this, that there is a serious lack of fire pits in Voidstar, Civil War, and Norave Coast. Fire pits need to be added to these warzones, at least two 20m on either side of all objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Yes it is a great ability, However it IS NOT comparable to UR. Thats my point. You can still take damage and at times large amounts of damage. At the absolute very best it extends your life as long as UR. UR hands down is a far better surviability mechanic then FS. Um, Force Shroud can be used preemptively on offense, while you'd be insane to use UR preemptively given the 50% health cost. A CD that's only useful when you're losing badly isn't as good as it looks because it requires you to lose the fight first before you can use it, and that's usually not a good way to start a fight. If you have to make choice between losing UR and say, Cloak of Pain as a Marauder, I'd go with UR over Cloak of Pain because Cloak of Pain would let me win a lot of fights from the start, while UR will only let me win fights that I start out losing, which implies I'm totally screwed if it's not up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I'd like to add to this, that there is a serious lack of fire pits in Voidstar, Civil War, and Norave Coast. Fire pits need to be added to these warzones, at least two 20m on either side of all objectives. I want to also be able to use the force to turn them off and on at will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Um, Force Shroud can be used preemptively on offense, while you'd be insane to use UR preemptively given the 50% health cost. A CD that's only useful when you're losing badly isn't as good as it looks because it requires you to lose the fight first before you can use it, and that's usually not a good way to start a fight. If you have to make choice between losing UR and say, Cloak of Pain as a Marauder, I'd go with UR over Cloak of Pain because Cloak of Pain would let me win a lot of fights from the start, while UR will only let me win fights that I start out losing, which implies I'm totally screwed if it's not up. It would be really great if I could use cloak of pain and alternate it with UR and saber ward. It would be totally awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) Umm no its not. Several high damaging attacks from multiple classes are white damage or non force/tech damage. Rail shot for instance. UR blocks everything. You can be CC'd for the entire duration of UR, negating its effectiveness entirely. You cannot be CC'd AT ALL for the entire duration of Force Shroud by most classes, which makes it pretty valuable. It can also be used twice as often as UR, which you don't seem to be taking into account at all when I call them "comparable". Also, we're talking about a Tankassin's Shroud, which is designed to be used in conjunction w/ higher armor, defenses, and a shield to mitigate a large amount of incoming white damage. I know that's now how it's currently used, but that is how it was intended by design, imo. By the same token, UR was intended to have a "cost" by design, but in reality that cost does not exist. Edited June 26, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawiki Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Um, Force Shroud can be used preemptively on offense, while you'd be insane to use UR preemptively given the 50% health cost. A CD that's only useful when you're losing badly isn't as good as it looks because it requires you to lose the fight first before you can use it, and that's usually not a good way to start a fight. If you have to make choice between losing UR and say, Cloak of Pain as a Marauder, I'd go with UR over Cloak of Pain because Cloak of Pain would let me win a lot of fights from the start, while UR will only let me win fights that I start out losing, which implies I'm totally screwed if it's not up. Right, UR is hands down a better surviabilty tool then FS. or UR will let you win fights after you've already won a fight or two.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 lol Yeah. I often wish that my marauder could tank and have as good of tanking defensive CDs as my tank-sin. That would be bad ***. I mean, marauder totally sucks now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawiki Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 You can be CC'd for the entire duration of UR, negating its effectiveness entirely. You cannot be CC'd AT ALL for the entire duration of Force Shroud by most classes, which makes it pretty valuable. It can also be used twice as often as UR, which you don't seem to be taking into account at all when I call them "comparable". Also, we're talking about a Tankassin's Shroud, which is designed to be used in conjunction w/ higher armor, defenses, and a shield to mitigate a large amount of incoming white damage. I know that's now how it's currently used, but that is how it was intended by design, imo. By the same token, UR was intended to have a "cost" by design, but in reality that cost does not exist. You can be rooted for the entire duration of FS. Right, I am not saying FS is a horrible CD. I am saying that UR is that OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 So is this troll thread being turned into a "suggestions for UR thread"? If so, I recommend that the health cost be removed, your damage is cut by 50%, and it can only be activated when your health falls below 5%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 So is this troll thread being turned into a "suggestions for UR thread"? If so, I recommend that the health cost be removed, your damage is cut by 50%, and it can only be activated when your health falls below 5%. This sounds like a constructive and balanced idea. There is no room for those here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) You can be rooted for the entire duration of FS. Right, I am not saying FS is a horrible CD. I am saying that UR is that OP. It's a great thing that all Tankassins also have the ability to break roots on a 20 sec cd. <.< No, I hear what you are saying. As someone who plays both classes, however, I feel that they are comparable cds. FS screws a lot of classes outright, offensively or defensively, on a relatively short 45 sec cd. It can be used w/ the Assassin's other utility moves to great effect, such as Force Sprint to break any roots that might land, Force Cloak to reset a fight, or just to become completely immune to most CC. It has a lot of uses. UR is a great defensive cd. Please don't think that I am saying otherwise; it's extremely powerful, especially since you can still be healed fully during it. However, it has a lot fewer uses than Force Shroud, and can only be used half as often. UR is used to keep you alive when you were about to die. That's it. That is its only use, period. When you couple this w/ the fact that Marauders have other very good tools to keep themselves from dying, its utility is greatly diminished compared to a tool that could be used in a variety of different effective ways twice as often. That's the metric I'm using when I compare their usefulness. /shrug In the grand scheme of defensive cds in this game, however, I'd say they're both a little OP compared to most cds. Edited June 26, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) So is this troll thread being turned into a "suggestions for UR thread"? No, It's still just a butthurt troll thread. Edited June 26, 2012 by DarthOvertone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 No matter how obvious a troll thread is, there are people who will fall for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nijraw Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) I'm under the impression that the health cost seems rather pointless. I suggest removing the health cost to make this a more active ability and not something that HAS to be used at 1-5%. I think this will give Maras/Sents more flexibility in terms of defensive CD usage. If you are not trolling then you have swapped mains and now play a Sent/Mara, and if this is the case then this proves that you do not wish to seek balance, only to overpower the classes that you are currently playing. Edited June 26, 2012 by Nijraw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seravis Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I don't get why people hate Undying Rage so much. Only bad players don't see the glaring weakness of it. It is extremely predictable when they will use it. If you can't guess when a Marauder will use Undying Rage within ~1 second of it use.... You have no idea what you are doing. He is always going to use it at 10% hp if he is able to. Every. Single. Time. So what do you do about it? Simple. Stun him at ~20% hp and then execute him in the next 2-3 GCDs. Unless he has his CC breaker up it it works every time. (Im sure someone will say they used their stun on Ravage instead... you are suppose to use a KB or mez or Evasion or a 2nd stun etc.). But hey blindly using your skills at random and thinking the enemy class is OP works to. As for it being the "best" defense in the game. I would GLADLY trade it away for Force Shroud any time and any day. 5 seconds of Full cleanse + CC immunity + Debuff immunity + immunity to 90% of abilities . And you guys think not taking damage for 5 seconds is better than that? Wow... Best of all you can use it at anytime so it is impossible to predict it and counter it. The CC immunity makes it also very useful for far more than just a "please just let me live 5 more seconds". Better still it can be used twice as often as undying rage. But nah Undying Rage is completely uncounterable and unpredictable and makes marauders harder to kill than tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I would GLADLY trade it away for Force Shroud any time and any day. 5 seconds of Full cleanse + CC immunity + Debuff immunity + immunity to 90% of abilities . And you guys think not taking damage for 5 seconds is better than that? Wow... Best of all you can use it at anytime so it is impossible to predict it and counter it. The CC immunity makes it also very useful for far more than just a "please just let me live 5 more seconds". Better still it can be used twice as often as undying rage. Just a note: The "full cleanse" portion of Force Shroud only works when the ability is activated; it does not prevent Force/Tech effects from being applied to the Assassin if they are applied via physical abilities while Force Shroud is active. I haven't tested this w/ other debuff effects, but I know that Marauder bleeds can still be applied while Force Shroud is active, since Rupture is a melee ability (not Force or Tech) as well as the melee abilities used to apply Deadly Saber. PS) My Carnage Mara would trade UR for Force Shroud any day of the week, lol. Talk about OP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criminalheretic Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 This sounds like a constructive and balanced idea. There is no room for those here. Yeah you can only activate it when you have 850 hit points left, brilliant. That's less than one basic attack. Constructive and balanced? Nice try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seravis Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Just a note: The "full cleanse" portion of Force Shroud only works when the ability is activated; it does not prevent Force/Tech effects from being applied to the Assassin if they are applied via physical abilities while Force Shroud is active. I haven't tested this w/ other debuff effects, but I know that Marauder bleeds can still be applied while Force Shroud is active, since Rupture is a melee ability (not Force or Tech) as well as the melee abilities used to apply Deadly Saber. PS) My Carnage Mara would trade UR for Force Shroud any day of the week, lol. Talk about OP... Force Shroud > Gore > Ravage > Force Scream > Execute. Huehuehue. I do agree that would be god damn ridiculous(ly fun... for us). I would trade Undying rage for just the CC immunity of Force Shroud. Just so that I could have uncounterable damage for 5 seconds. It is only slightly annoying that anyone can ruin our burst combo by throwing a random CC at us. The only thing more annoying is when everyone thinks you have the unstoppable burst of a Pyrotech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 In terms of 1on1 it's very hard to wait until the Marauder is down to 20% to stun simply because most classes would've died before the Marauder get to 20% if they never used their stun. It's far more practical to just save a good root/KB for 20% instead of your stun. UR's weakness isn't that it's easy to counter (it's not) but that it's only useful if you're already losing a fight. Compare this to the same CDs a Marauder has, Cloak of Pain and Force Camo. Both can be used effectively to press your advantage while you're winning for a decisive victory. While neither gives guaranteed survivality while still doing DPS (Force Camo's survivality only works while escaping) you can easily make a case that either CD are more useful than UR. A CD that can be used to turn an advantage into a win is generally useful than a CD that can sometimes turn a loss into a win, especially for a class that has no shortage of advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invictusthetaru Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Master Strike/Ravage has a 30% chance to inflict banned, suspending the target's account for the duration of the warzone. Literally laughed out loud at this one. GG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marqhill Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 New passive ability for Marauders/Sentinels called Gkick. If you are hit by a sentinel then there is a 20% chance that you will be kicked from your guild. All items that you donated to the Guild Bank will be destroyed. It also has a 50% chance to kill one of your companions permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YanksfanJP Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 While the thread was more "tongue in cheek" the OP has a point. The health cost is next to meaningless as they can just pop a medpack or get healed. It's bad design. They should be immune to healing while UR or invisibilty is active. Otherwise you just have to kill a mara/sent three times.... And the solution is obviously to make it more powerful instead of at least putting the restriction that they need to use it when they're an inch from death? Do you people actually read what you type before you hit the SUBMIT REPLY button? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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