Can we, as a community, eliminate the "Grass" and "Snow" in Alderaan?

[Varicite]

Covered =/= Learned

 

Cardinal directions remain a mystery to the vast majority of people, let alone gamers.

 

Link to the definitive results of the "vast majority of people" polled on the matter?

 

Otherwise, you're pretty much just talking out of your derriere right now.

 

I can anecdotally say that most people that I've encountered in the past 30+ years have all known that East is toward the right of the map, and West is toward the left, and almost invariably know some form of "Never Eat Soggy Wheat" if they should ever forget.

 

Still doesn't make it the case for the "vast majority of people", no matter how much I may think that is true.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Varicite

[olagaton]

Highway patrol - "I got a vehicle heading snow bound on interstae 10."

 

Yeah, I don't think so.

Highway patrol are not the general public. The general public don't use East/West regularly. They use landmarks. Horrible analogy on your part.

 

Left, from Empire spawn, right if I'm on Republic. If I'm at middle turret, I'm facing toward the enemy respawn zone, generally.

Wrong. You can be facing any number of ways at any given time, so you need to know which direction you are facing before you can head East or West, which means looking at either the minimap (which can take away from action, as I mentioned before), or you can look at familiar landmarks to gather your bearings (which means Snow/grass is better than East/West, in the first place).

 

Please don't make silly assumptions like "I do not understand what I typed", as that is definitely not the case. Just because Grass / Snow is more intuitive for you, doesn't make it the case for everyone.

So you play the game without looking at the screen? I understand, and I can probably guess your rank, too.

 

If this system is so cumbersome, why do you use it on Novare Coast?

The most optimal system is not a standard for all maps. For Alderaan, the optimal system is Snow/Grass, for reasons listed so far. On a map like Novare Coast, which doesn't have noticeable landmarks, East/West is the optimal system (though still far from a very well used system).

 

You use what you have available to you, but when 2 options are available, and one is clearly easier for everyone, you tend to go with that option (unless you really don't want to win).

[Darth_Philar]

Link to the definitive results of the "vast majority of people" polled on the matter?

 

Otherwise, you're pretty much just talking out of your derriere right now.

 

I can anecdotally say that most people that I've encountered in the past 30+ years have all known that East is toward the right of the map, and West is toward the left, and almost invariably know some form of "Never Eat Soggy Wheat" if they should ever forget.

 

Still doesn't make it the case for the "vast majority of people", no matter how much I may think that is true.

 

You very clearly don't know any Americans if your anecdotes suggest a high knowledge level with regard to cardinal directions. These are the same people who can't even place their own country on a map, let alone determine which way is n/e/s/w.

 

Even most people who know their cardinal directions still need a moment to process which direction they are referring to before they say it (unless it is something that they say on a regular basis, at which point it leaves the logic center and runs from memory). It is far quicker to reference a landmark that you can immediately see yourself as that requires no thought other than the initial identification, which will have already been made as a result of your screen having the landmark present. Since time is of the essence in WZs people are going to continue to use the method that is fastest (in the event they CAN use more than one method, which most will not be capable of).

[veyl]

I still use East and West. All of these people on the new server however, all use grass/snow.

 

While we're on the topic of directions... How about the people that say left or right when they're looking out of the bomb doors in Voidstar and that's the complete opposite direction of where the bomb is being planted.

[Varicite]

Wrong. You can be facing any number of ways at any given time, so you need to know which direction you are facing before you can head East or West, which means looking at either the minimap (which can take away from action, as I mentioned before), or you can look at familiar landmarks to gather your bearings (which means Snow/grass is better than East/West, in the first place).

 

Left, from Empire spawn, right if I'm on Republic. If I'm at middle turret, I'm facing toward the enemy respawn zone, generally.

 

Pretty much negates that entire paragraph, but thanks for trying.

 

So you play the game without looking at the screen? I understand, and I can probably guess your rank, too.

 

Again, baseless assumption. Not even sure where you're getting this nonsense, really.

 

Do you often resort to personal insults when you don't have a valid point to make? Classy.

 

You very clearly don't know any Americans if your anecdotes suggest a high knowledge level with regard to cardinal directions. These are the same people who can't even place their own country on a map, let alone determine which way is n/e/s/w.

 

Yes, clearly I've never met another American in America in the past 30+ years. I don't have a single friend who can't place America on a map, OR determine the cardinal directions when looking at a map.

 

And, like I said, neither your anecdotal evidence or mine matters at all, and we both know you have no definitive evidence of your argument, so please just stop talking out of your behind.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Varicite

[Darth_Philar]

Pretty much negates that entire paragraph, but thanks for trying.

 

 

 

Again, baseless assumption. Not even sure where you're getting this nonsense, really.

 

Do you often resort to personal insults when you don't have a valid point to make? Classy.

 

 

 

Yes, clearly I've never met another American in America in the past 30+ years. I don't have a single friend who can't place America on a map, OR determine the cardinal directions when looking at a map.

 

And, like I said, neither your anecdotal evidence or mine matters at all, and we both know you have no definitive evidence of your argument, so please just stop talking out of your behind.

 

Terribly sorry, I had no idea that you were the only one allowed to talk out of his behind on these forums. I'll let you get back to it without interruption.

[Varicite]

Terribly sorry, I had no idea that you were the only one allowed to talk out of his behind on these forums. I'll let you get back to it without interruption.

 

I haven't said anything that wasn't clearly stated as my opinion, or personal preference.

 

I can't say the same for what you've written here.

[Darth_Philar]

I haven't said anything that wasn't clearly stated as my opinion, or personal preference.

 

I can't say the same for what you've written here.

 

Right, your opinions are lovely little wonders of magic and sparkles while everyone else's opinion comes from their backsides, got it.

 

You cannot dismiss the anecdotes of others when your entire premise is also founded on anecdotes without dismissing your own premise.

 

Kindly keep your flippant dismissals to yourself unless you want them applied back onto you.

 

People who live in electromagnetically sealed garbarge compactors shouldn't fire blasters.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[Varicite]

Right, your opinions are lovely little wonders of magic and sparkles while everyone else's opinion comes from their backsides, got it.

 

You cannot dismiss the anecdotes of others when your entire premise is also founded on anecdotes without dismissing your own premise.

 

So, I guess we come full circle. Please point out to me where you stated that this was an opinion at all. Or an anecdote.

 

Cardinal directions remain a mystery to the vast majority of people, let alone gamers.

 

Well?

 

You stated this as a fact (that's what happens when you speak in absolutes), and I jokingly asked you to link to a thread w/ definitive results showing this fact, and your feelings got hurt in the process. That's all.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Varicite

[Darth_Philar]

So, I guess we come full circle. Please point out to me where you stated that this was an opinion at all. Or an anecdote.

Well?

 

If you need opinions to be tagged as such in order to distinguish them from facts, I strongly recommend you avoid watching any kind of television and leave the internet immediately.

 

For your benefit, I will try and remember to tag my opinions going forward though, if it will help keep threads on track. You will probably need to remind me though, as it is not something that I, or anyone else on the planet, normally does.

[Daiyukie]

If you need opinions to be tagged as such in order to distinguish them from facts, I strongly recommend you avoid watching any kind of television and leave the internet immediately.

 

For your benefit, I will try and remember to tag my opinions going forward though, if it will help keep threads on track. You will probably need to remind me though, as it is not something that I, or anyone else on the planet, normally does.

 

People need /sarcasm tags, so... this is different how?

[Varicite]

People need /sarcasm tags, so... this is different how?

 

Meh, he stated something that he was obviously trying to put forward as fact (especially if you read his reply about my "VERY CLEARLY not knowing ANY Americans" in America in 30+ years), I called him on it, and now he's all hurt.

 

That's all that happened here.

 

And none of this has anything to do w/ the topic at hand, so I'll stop derailing. : P

Edited July 10, 2012 by Varicite

[HraefnDeus]

I don't mind the 'grass' and 'snow' so much, but I do hate the 'left' and 'right' calls that are made using the caller's screen orientation rather than the minimap orientation.

[BlastingGravy]

The most optimal system is not a standard for all maps.

Tell that to the multi-million Mars rover that crashed because its designers were using different systems of measurement. Using multiple systems when only one is necessary seems as far from optimal as one can get.

For Alderaan, the optimal system is Snow/Grass, for reasons listed so far.

The only reason that I've heard people say that it is optimal is because they can see the landmarks, which as I have previously indicated is quite often not the case. I'm still waiting for someone to address this obvious flaw.

On a map like Novare Coast, which doesn't have noticeable landmarks, East/West is the optimal system (though still far from a very well used system).

What other system is being used? I haven't seen one. I find it incredibly ironic that no one uses landmarks on Novare Coast when it's the only map where you can actually see all the landmarks from almost anywhere.

You use what you have available to you, but when 2 options are available, and one is clearly easier for everyone, you tend to go with that option (unless you really don't want to win).

Again, it only seems easier because you are used to it. To anyone first learning the map, it is not. As I said previously, it's like the metric system, the only reason anyone uses anything else is because they got used to doing something else.

[Daiyukie]

I don't mind the 'grass' and 'snow' so much, but I do hate the 'left' and 'right' calls that are made using the caller's screen orientation rather than the minimap orientation.

 

But they're not. If people calling somehow know your screen orientation, they are MAGIC and if they're saying "Hey run to the left with me!" and they run what is shown as right on the minimap... I dunno, follow them? Unless they're actually running somewhere stupid, then leave them to it and /dance because you're probably losing anyway.

 

I don't see how that's in any way a valid argument, especially if you're at a turret yourself. People could just say "Inc" and if it's not at YOUR turret.... Well, chances are it's at the other turret you currently control, isn't it?

[Darth_Philar]

Meh, he stated something that he was obviously trying to put forward as fact (especially if you read his reply about my "VERY CLEARLY not knowing ANY Americans" in America in 30+ years), I called him on it, and now he's all hurt.

 

That's all that happened here.

 

And none of this has anything to do w/ the topic at hand, so I'll stop derailing. : P

 

How deliciously juvenile.

Still trying to fire that blaster in your electromagnetically-sealed garbage compactor you call a home.

 

You can't hurt the feelings of an online avatar. I wwebsite, as in the internet!

Edited July 10, 2012 by Darth_Philar

[psandak]

Grass and Snow requires me to stop and think for a moment, to associate Grass w/ West and Snow w/ East. I'm much faster at it now, since I've encountered a lot more people who call it that, but East / West is still a faster association for me, personally.

 

The same thing can be said from the other side of this argument:

 

"East and West requires me to stop and think for a moment, to associate West w/ Grass and East w/ Snow. I'm much faster at it now, since I've encountered a lot more people who call it that, but Grass / Snow is still a faster association for me, personally."

 

Fact is ALL players should understand both. I am not going to say which is right or wrong because they are BOTH right AND wrong from each individual's perspective. Personally, I use them interchangeably depending on which is used first in a given CW WZ. I guess I'm just that smart

 

Funny real life story...

 

My family lives in New York where most of the time directions are given left and right... Turn left onto street X then turn right on street Y.

 

I (now) live in Colorado where most of the time directions are given north/east/south/west... Turn west on street X and then turn north on street Y.

 

(Something to understand: in Denver Colorado (and the entire eastern half of the state for that matter), there is a HUGE landmark called the Rocky Mountains that are ALWAYS west of you. So just look for the mountains and you KNOW where west is).

 

Well my family came out to visit me and I was trying to give my father directions to a store. I started out giving NEWS (that's right folks the word "news" is derived from the cardinal directions) directions when he stopped me mid-sentence and exclaimed, "I do not understand what you are talking about!!!" This is a 65 year old man with a Masters Degree. Yes, he understands NEWS when looking at a map, but when driving, looking out the windshield he needed something "simpler" and that meant left and right directions.

 

The same thing can be said for gamers, visually distinctive features CAN be easier for them to interpret in the heat of the moment. And nothing anyone says or does will ever convince them otherwise.

[Varicite]

I agree with what you've written wholeheartedly, and that is why I tried to make certain that I was stating that I was speaking only about my personal preference.

 

It's really all a matter of familiarity and comfort, which is all I've been saying for all these pages. : )

Edited July 11, 2012 by Varicite

[YanksfanJP]

The same thing can be said from the other side of this argument:

 

"East and West requires me to stop and think for a moment, to associate West w/ Grass and East w/ Snow. I'm much faster at it now, since I've encountered a lot more people who call it that, but Grass / Snow is still a faster association for me, personally."

 

Fact is ALL players should understand both. I am not going to say which is right or wrong because they are BOTH right AND wrong from each individual's perspective. Personally, I use them interchangeably depending on which is used first in a given CW WZ. I guess I'm just that smart

 

Funny real life story...

 

My family lives in New York where most of the time directions are given left and right... Turn left onto street X then turn right on street Y.

 

I (now) live in Colorado where most of the time directions are given north/east/south/west... Turn west on street X and then turn north on street Y.

 

(Something to understand: in Denver Colorado (and the entire eastern half of the state for that matter), there is a HUGE landmark called the Rocky Mountains that are ALWAYS west of you. So just look for the mountains and you KNOW where west is).

 

Well my family came out to visit me and I was trying to give my father directions to a store. I started out giving NEWS (that's right folks the word "news" is derived from the cardinal directions) directions when he stopped me mid-sentence and exclaimed, "I do not understand what you are talking about!!!" This is a 65 year old man with a Masters Degree. Yes, he understands NEWS when looking at a map, but when driving, looking out the windshield he needed something "simpler" and that meant left and right directions.

 

The same thing can be said for gamers, visually distinctive features CAN be easier for them to interpret in the heat of the moment. And nothing anyone says or does will ever convince them otherwise.

 

I completely understand this story and have had something similar happen to me that you'll appreciate.

 

You see... I, too, grew up in New York, and I, too, lived in Colorado for a while. When I was in NY, pretty much everything was West. East was water. Couldn't go that direction. Whenever we traveled to go somewhere or visit someone, West was to get there and East was to get home.

 

When I lived in Colorado Springs, my apartment was pretty much at the foot of the Rockies. Everything was East. Couldn't go West. It was the complete opposite, like someone flipped the map upside down.

 

So, for the entire 2 years I lived in Colorado, my brain kept thinking North was South and South was North, and sometimes I had to stop and rethink if I needed to take a certain road West or East. It took me a while to get out of that habit, but even still to this day I have relapses (I live back on the east coast now)

[MikeAWBD]

I agree. When I first transferred from Juyo I didn't instantly know what side grass or snow was(I never heard anyone use that terminology on Juyo). North, south, east, or west need no explanation or thought to understand. Left or right works on Alderann, but I hate when people use it on Voidstar.

[funkiestj]

This thread is an epic example of internet. It reminds me of Gulliver's Travels.

 

I suggest that the prize for winning season one of rated WZ is the victor gets to decree the officially accepted answer to this burning question of larboard / starboard / left / right / east / west / fore / aft / above / below / dorsal / ventral / anterior / posterior / Stark / Tully / ...

Edited July 11, 2012 by funkiestj

[RicoFrost]

Is it really that big a deal? i mean east or west, snow or grass who really cares??? i mean really.....

[Never_Hesitate]

This thread is an epic example of internet. It reminds me of Gulliver's Travels.

 

I suggest that the prize for winning season one of rated WZ is the victor gets to decree the officially accepted answer to this burning question of larboard / starboard / left / right / east / west / fore / aft / above / below / dorsal / ventral / anterior / posterior / Stark / Tully / ...

 

If I win can I name them QQ and PewPew?

[funkiestj]

If I win can I name them QQ and PewPew?

 

I think even Bioware would find that acceptable.

 

Refinement of my idea -- inscribe these names (what ever the winning team choses to call the east and west nodes) in the nodes on the battle field! Each new season, you could inscribe the new name below last year's name. Then folks guarding the node could look at the list while they diddle themselves.

 

BTW, QQ and pew pew are great names. Myself, I favor Westrosand Essos

[Darth_Philar]

I think even Bioware would find that acceptable.

 

Refinement of my idea -- inscribe these names (what ever the winning team choses to call the east and west nodes) in the nodes on the battle field! Each new season, you could inscribe the new name below last year's name. Then folks guarding the node could look at the list while they diddle themselves.

 

BTW, QQ and pew pew are great names. Myself, I favor Westrosand Essos

 

The best idea is what Blizzard did in Strand of the Ancients. Color code everything. People respond much more quickly to visual cues than they do to any kind of stimulus that requires a logical processing (such as Left/Right or East/West).

 

If the nodes themselves were different colors on the map with the controlling faction's icon displayed it would be significantly simplified.