Seriously Speaking - What Classes need Nerfing

[MidichIorian]

Bring some of the classes' bursts down to "sorc level" and we'll be fine TTK and balance'wise.

[Jarfunkz]

I found 2 that really needs re-rounding

 

Pyro Techs

Maurders

 

TBH, these classes don't need skill, BW gave them OP abilities without testing in there shop before releasing 1.2.

Either BW enjoys this flavor of the month or they are not educated enough to understand class balancing and just shuffled the cards and see whats happens.

Sounds like the designers of BW are poker players then programmers

 

snipers

pyro techs

marauders

assassins

juggernauts

operatives

sorcerors

merenaries

 

That isn't a list from who needs to be nerfed, they all do.

[LoKiei]

Ok, maybe I should have said:

No class should be strong in all 3 categories.

 

Sorcs are so weak in survivabilitiy, that it is ok that they have lots utility and damge.

 

Unlike Assassins and PTs, who have lots of survivablity, lots of utility, and still do considerable damage.

 

Please explain and I want full details.

[kweassa]

1. Pyro/Assault PTs/Vngs counterparts could do with a slight drop in burst, compensated by increase in slower, sustained damage.

 

2. Watchman/Annihilation Sents/Mrds need the internal/elemental DoT portion of their attacks toned down, or redesigned so it works more constantly but slower in ticks and lower in damage.

 

3. ALL hybrid tanks - Shads/Assasins, Guardian/Juggs, Vngs/PTs that wield hybrid "defense stance/form/skill" + DPS gear settings, need a slight nerf to damage and survivability.

 

4. In contrast, ALL pure tank builds that use tanking spec gear, need a means to boost to the defense/shield rating, and receive reliable protection against elemental/internal (at least 20% passive). These means, need to be tied in to certain specs or stats, so only those who use tanking gear may benefit from it, and disallow hybrids using DPS gear getting the same benefit.

 

5. Sorc/Sages need a defensive CD

 

6. Being attacked during channeling needs a higher chance to cancel the process,

 

7. In general the game needs more debuffs to damage and/or accuracy - preferably given to the currently lowest performing class/build.

[Coldin]

It's true that you can't really say any class, since it's really certain specs and talents in a class that bring it to OP levels.

 

That said, in pretty much every spec, Sentinels/Marauders can be OP simply by how they're defensive cooldowns function. They're just a bit too strong.

 

Scoundrel/Operatives need a slight toning down in healing, but they're getting that with 1.3.

Shadows/Assassins need to be a little bit less durable. They already get a lot of utility, that being able to 1v3 people is a bit over the top.

Vanguards/Powertechs need to have their shared tree looked at. It's dealing quite considerable burst damage for a class that isn't straight DPS. Probably needs the refresh rate on Railshot/Impact Bolt reduced a little.

 

Everyone else is probably fine, or could stand to have a small buff. Speaking from the two classes I know, Vigilance DPS on a Guardian leave a bit to be desired, and while Scoundrels can deal some burst in Scrapper it's lacking viable defensive cooldowns and sustained damage after the initial volley.

 

The change to relics will be interesting. It will be less on damage burst from classes, but in exchange for higher overall DPS. It seems a strange move on Bioware's part.

[Coldin]

Please explain and I want full details.

 

I won't give you full details, but....

 

Powertechs in Pyrotech spec, get to deal a lot of damage.

 

Survivability, they get a couple good defensive cooldowns, plus they wear heavy armor which puts them ahead of most other DPS.

 

For Utility, they get a great grapple, for pulling in opponents, trapping them in hazard, or generally keeping people locked down. They also get Taunts, which greatly reduce the damage taken by everyone else, plus they have access to guarding a player if the situation calls for it. They also get an interrupt on a fairly short cooldown, which is always nice.

 

Basically, just a lot of different ways to contribute to a warzone beyond straight DPS.

[Xerain]

Next its those damn arsenal tracer tossing mercs, oh wait hot tub time machine circa april.

 

whoever said TM was op'ed are straight up scrubs.

[Coldin]

whoever said TM was op'ed are straight up scrubs.

 

It was never that OP. Just...really boring. They could do all their DPS just by spamming one skill. I'm glad that got changed.

 

Of course, then everyone switched to Pryotech.

[DarkSideTOR]

1. Pyro/Assault PTs/Vngs counterparts could do with a slight drop in burst, compensated by increase in slower, sustained damage.

 

2. Watchman/Annihilation Sents/Mrds need the internal/elemental DoT portion of their attacks toned down, or redesigned so it works more constantly but slower in ticks and lower in damage.

 

3. ALL hybrid tanks - Shads/Assasins, Guardian/Juggs, Vngs/PTs that wield hybrid "defense stance/form/skill" + DPS gear settings, need a slight nerf to damage and survivability.

 

4. In contrast, ALL pure tank builds that use tanking spec gear, need a means to boost to the defense/shield rating, and receive reliable protection against elemental/internal (at least 20% passive). These means, need to be tied in to certain specs or stats, so only those who use tanking gear may benefit from it, and disallow hybrids using DPS gear getting the same benefit.

 

5. Sorc/Sages need a defensive CD

 

6. Being attacked during channeling needs a higher chance to cancel the process,

 

7. In general the game needs more debuffs to damage and/or accuracy - preferably given to the currently lowest performing class/build.

 

Totally agree with this. Powertechs and Marauders are by far the leading burst damage dealers right now. I don't think nerfing the adrenals in WZs is gonna rectify this. I keep hearing BW use the excuse of not wanting one profession to be better than the others by a large margin so they keep nerfing Biochem under this pretext. The same principle should apply here. Two classes are out performing all others in terms of damage, so either bring the rest of us up their level or tone down their damage.

 

PTs have waaay too much armor penetration, I wear heavy armor and have 1300+ expertise and I'm eating 5.5k HiB crits from PTs. I can just imagine how hard that's gonna hit medium/light armor users. 90% armor reduction on HIB that also has a high chance to be reset by instant cast abilities is a bit too much don't you think BW?

 

Sentinel DoT needs a reduction. 1k tick crits from DoTs? on top of the massive crits their melee attacks do? AND they get heals from their cauterize crits AND all those nice "defensive" cooldowns they get? yeah..

[Cial]

1. Pyro/Assault PTs/Vngs counterparts could do with a slight drop in burst, compensated by increase in slower, sustained damage.

 

2. Watchman/Annihilation Sents/Mrds need the internal/elemental DoT portion of their attacks toned down, or redesigned so it works more constantly but slower in ticks and lower in damage.

 

3. ALL hybrid tanks - Shads/Assasins, Guardian/Juggs, Vngs/PTs that wield hybrid "defense stance/form/skill" + DPS gear settings, need a slight nerf to damage and survivability.

 

4. In contrast, ALL pure tank builds that use tanking spec gear, need a means to boost to the defense/shield rating, and receive reliable protection against elemental/internal (at least 20% passive). These means, need to be tied in to certain specs or stats, so only those who use tanking gear may benefit from it, and disallow hybrids using DPS gear getting the same benefit.

 

5. Sorc/Sages need a defensive CD

 

6. Being attacked during channeling needs a higher chance to cancel the process,

 

7. In general the game needs more debuffs to damage and/or accuracy - preferably given to the currently lowest performing class/build.

 

I play a Mara as my main and I can agree with this.

 

Easily the top 3 pvp classes/spec in the game are Tanksins, Maras and Pyro PTs.

 

Tanksins are getting nerfed in 1.3

Maras need a dot nerf/adjustment

PT Pyros need armor pen nerfed - should cap at 10% tops.

 

Imo having a 50 mara and 50 PT, the PT is easily the derpiest, faceroll class in the game. Massive burst dmg with a stupid easy rotation. At least Mara takes skill to be OP.

[GrammatonC]

To me what I hope for with pvp in mmo's is about epic battles with lots of variation/skill sets. This is sorta what I would except from having 12+ moves and 3 different talent trees and paying a monthly fee. But it's all seemed very lacking lately.

 

With classes that hit for 1/4th your health while you have ~1300 expertise(full warhero) it just seems kinda like oh... it's the op build again... oh well... And almost everyone of each class is the same build...

 

It's not so much that fact that led me to cancel as much as it's BW's reaction to it... just seems kinda slow honestly. Player base has known for quite some classes are op and evidently people already know who the next class is going to be op. Most guys I've had serious talks with both on reddit/ingame and the forums knew this as early as 2days out of 1.2 and a good bit of them rolled these fotm classes. You would think BW would know this too. Is it a lack of coders? Lack of ideas on how to adjust it any better? Either way it's led to my cancellation. Even with the awesome transfers(best server transfer I've ever seen) Who knows, maybe if they make some cool adjustments prior to 8man ques I'll come back... How'd would they fix this? $hit man who knows... I don't get payed to come up with answers . But whatever you do play the game more before you do it, and us test the pvp changes next time without requiring so much crap to move guys over to test it! Prior to 1.2 was like having to get an act of congress to get on the test center! And 1.3 isn't doing much to pvp that I've heard :-/

[Evil_Santa]

Look, I see what you're trying to get at here. But if you're a RDPS class, chances are you have a KB, sure I can leap up to you, but when you knock me off the platform into the Pit (Huttball) I'm stuck twiddling my thumbs for ~10 seconds (Assuming we have 12s CD leap and you KB'd me 2s into the fight). Plus if you're a sorc you do have lots of CC =p. By the way, nerf Operatives, those dang 2.5k Hidden Strikes are really OP.

P.S. I agree with the poor Mercs/Commandos, they really need a buff, i.e. way shorter CD on KB, a root (*cough* sniper *cough*), or some kind of slow (Sweltering Heat in Assault Specialist Tree does NOT count).

 

Ok, so hutt-ball has platforms - we get that.

 

Does Alderaan, Voidstar, or Novare Coast?

 

No. So your argument applies to 1 of the 4 warzones.

[nDjiin]

I am pretty sure that powertechs do not need nerfing - if u know how to break up thier damage then they are no longer so tough to 1v1. Also kite us as long as you can - we are very slow with now closing skills (out side the tank trees - and you dont need to be so worried about them attacking you).

 

To nerf them further would basically remove them as a DPS class in PvE - they can do great DPS but you must be completely min maxed and really kno what you are doing to keep your DPS on the target at all times (30-35%) of your total damage will come from the DOTS that FB and Rapid FIre do.

 

If they were to get a DPS nerf you could only do it in conjunction with a closing skill that has a very low CD - like having Jet Boost from the ST tree as a standard PT ability.

 

Even so I think you would be ruining the class - their best defense in PvP is the dps they can lay down - they dont have an escape like OPs/maras/sins and thier rep counterparts. Their heavy armour is no better than the shielding the other classes get (I would give it up in an instant for the maras ability to mitigate 99% damage). With that a lot of skills by pass a lot of amour (if not all of it).

 

Nerfs need to be more subtle - for example the Marauders should have a reduction to the DPS they output when using their Undying Rage - not by much - just a little to make them think twice about using it.

[Phoeniixx]

Maras will only use undying rage when they are dying and it is either that or be killed so I guess dmg reduction there wouldnt really mattered.

Anyway, I am a sentinel and I would gladly give my 99% dmg reduction for CC imunity after leap.

[Akyio]

I found 2 that really needs re-rounding

 

Pyro Techs

Maurders

 

TBH, these classes don't need skill, BW gave them OP abilities without testing in there shop before releasing 1.2.

Either BW enjoys this flavor of the month or they are not educated enough to understand class balancing and just shuffled the cards and see whats happens.

Sounds like the designers of BW are poker players then programmers

 

they need skill, but i agree they need to be nerfed. just like sages/sorcs needed to be and scoundrels long time ago(not the latest patches).

 

PT is the most ridiculous, their number has increased like 2-3 times, the damage is the most ridiculous i have ever seen, on top of it they are quite tanky with their heavy armor

Edited June 17, 2012 by Akyio

[fungihoujo]

Maurders- along with slippers, towelnecks and shaurdols.

[LucasEighty]

i havent found any class to be overpowered, you just have to use different tactics depending on your class & your opponents class

[kweassa]

i havent found any class to be overpowered, you just have to use different tactics depending on your class & your opponents class

 

If you play class A, and have to come up with a tactic that takes superhuman effort to pull off, come up with multitude of back-up plans as the combat situation progresses by the second, and the slightest mistake in judgement plunges you into the depths of unrecoverable danger.... whereas if you play classr B, and your only necessary tactic is (1) target, (2) attack, (3) derp derp burst burst - enemy HP down to less than 50% in 4 seconds...

 

...then by definition class B is overpowered.

 

Sure, some of my favorite classes are quite fun to play, very challenging, and needs constant tactical adjustment, which is really fun and challenging... except with those classes my every move is like walking on a tightrope.... whereas some other classes I play are like... (1) find enemy, (2) wait until that enemy attacks a friendly, (3) CHANCE! derp derp burst burst burst.. enemy dead within 10 seconds... boring as hell, but gotta admit, when you are a steamrolling bulldozer of a burst DPS, you don't need any 'tactics'.

 

On a very general level, IMO the balance between the worth of offense and defense as a tool for combat, is like, 8:2.

 

I'd like to see it at around 6:4 at least.

Edited June 17, 2012 by kweassa

[TheGreatFrosty]

I found 2 that really needs re-rounding

 

Pyro Techs

Maurders

 

TBH, these classes don't need skill, BW gave them OP abilities without testing in there shop before releasing 1.2.

Either BW enjoys this flavor of the month or they are not educated enough to understand class balancing and just shuffled the cards and see whats happens.

Sounds like the designers of BW are poker players then programmers

 

Marauders require skill to play them properly.

 

Powertechs absolutely do not.

 

Powertechs are the class that need to be looked at above all else. Marauders need minor touches, at best.

[DarkSideTOR]

I am pretty sure that powertechs do not need nerfing - if u know how to break up thier damage then they are no longer so tough to 1v1. Also kite us as long as you can - we are very slow with now closing skills (out side the tank trees - and you dont need to be so worried about them attacking you).

 

To nerf them further would basically remove them as a DPS class in PvE - they can do great DPS but you must be completely min maxed and really kno what you are doing to keep your DPS on the target at all times (30-35%) of your total damage will come from the DOTS that FB and Rapid FIre do.

 

If they were to get a DPS nerf you could only do it in conjunction with a closing skill that has a very low CD - like having Jet Boost from the ST tree as a standard PT ability.

 

Even so I think you would be ruining the class - their best defense in PvP is the dps they can lay down - they dont have an escape like OPs/maras/sins and thier rep counterparts. Their heavy armour is no better than the shielding the other classes get (I would give it up in an instant for the maras ability to mitigate 99% damage). With that a lot of skills by pass a lot of amour (if not all of it).

 

Nerfs need to be more subtle - for example the Marauders should have a reduction to the DPS they output when using their Undying Rage - not by much - just a little to make them think twice about using it.

 

This reasoning, that "DPS is all you can do" is not enough. You guys have an on demand snare, jet boost, harpoon, 2 stuns, interrupt. Plenty of stuff to keep someone close to you and in place. You reset your hardest hitting attack with an instant cast ability so it's up pretty much every 6 seconds.

 

Your damage needs to be toned down period. Not saying you need to nerf the class into the ground but your burst is way too over the top, even more than Marauders right now. Have you forgotten that this was the "problem" Mercs/Commandos had? and we had our damage reduced. Guess what? DPS commando specs can "only dps" as well and we don't have nearly all the tools you guys have. Before you say "well you can heal!" please try casting heals as dps spec then come back here and tell me if that's good enough to make up for the difference between PT/Mercs.

 

As for your point with Marauders, They have enough defensive cooldowns that reducing their damage while Undying Rage is active would not break the class. Watchman DoTs do need to be toned down though.

[Migrayn]

Pt pyrotechs absolutely. They have way to much burst. They have way more burst then dips operatives. In fact it takes teams of operatives to kill anyone yet pt's can kill person after person while wearing heavy armor.

 

They seriously need to be brought in line to other dps classes.

[Veeius]

 

I also feel that my Jug is my 2nd most powerful character. So much control and an unstoppable ball runner in Hutt Ball. Top that off with defensive and offensive cooldowns and they really are a very strong if not overpowered class.

 

In other words "I don't like my jugg, so nerf it instead of my PT please."

 

You're flat out insane if you think a PT is WEAKER than a jugg. You're flat out insane if you think a PT is NOT op and a jugg IS. Sure, charge intercede and oblit are nice. But force push OFTEN throws people the way they want to go, and force choke works, maybe 30% of the time, most of the time, people continue casting or running around like nothing is going on, while I'm basically stunned (but not given resolve).

 

In the mean time, a good PT can burn 80% of my health in the time it takes smash to come off CD. So, yeah, I definitely see where juggs need a nerf and PTs don't... wait... no, no, that's backwards.

[Veeius]

Ok, so hutt-ball has platforms - we get that.

 

Does Alderaan, Voidstar, or Novare Coast?

 

No. So your argument applies to 1 of the 4 warzones.

 

....try 4 of 4.

 

Voidstar's second room is mostly places where you can be push/pulled to death. Alderan's east & west turrets are on platforms, which, while they won't kill you, they will DRAMATICALLY add to how long it takes to get back to the turret. And all 3 nodes in NC have places you can be pushed - south is probably worst, I routinely push people halfway back to their start point, add a snare on that, and they're out of the fight for a nice long while.

[Igniteeee]

Powertechs are VERY squishy. They can deal tons of damage quickly, but if focused by two or more people, a good (keyword=good) assassin with his CD's up, or an above average Scoundrel that is in stealth and behind the PT, you will die very fast. Clarification to angry Sith Warriors/Jedi Knights: Juggs/Guards are easy prey to a Powertech 99% of the time, and Marauders/Sents are prey 80%-90% of the time. (It's so high because many Marauders/Sents are FOTM re-rollers that are complete and total piss chuggers and/or terrible at the game.) That being said PTs are one of, if not THE, easiest classes to play. (Up there with Snipers; not OP just are very easy to play.) Take away the 20%/40%/60% rail shot penetration and replace it with 15%/30%/45%. If that re-balance was done with the nerf coming to Rocket Punch/Stock Strike, coming in 1.3, will make their damage lower and closer to being on par with other classes. The last point I will make is: In a game there will always be a, if not more than one, 'counter' to your class, and there will be a 'best' class. Powertechs? Maybe. Marauders? Maybe. We will find out a lot more when Ranked WZs come out. So until then, CAN IT with the nerf posts and make 'buff' posts.

[jessesimon]

I wouldnt call it nerfing but bw needs to change some of the game mechanics. There is too much of a desparity in the way damage is mitgated imho. In pvp the absorb does nothing against most shooter damage or force attacks. That leaves only armor class to mitigate that damage. But as a melee class absorb reduces the damage u do. Some may not agree with what im saying but it is a very real problem that makes some of the classes mentioned here seem op but in truth the game was designed where u just cant mitgate the damage from their damage like u can most melee attacks.