Seriously Speaking - What Classes need Nerfing

[Phoeniixx]

1. Marauder/Sentinel

DPS is fine, defense needs a nerf. Specifically Force Camo, which keeps the attacker locked in combat state. If the Mara/Sent vanishes and essentially gets to leave combat, so should the opponent. Defensive CDs should be higher.

 

Just to get the facts strait. Force camo doesn't drop maras out of combat either.

[Jurgen-Ferik]

all melee classes have it pretty easy.

[kaya]

If my main was a sage as oppossed to something i play occassionally I would have ragequit a long time ago due to powertechs.

Their damage is completely and utterly stupid.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Hmmmm. This thread again. How original. Is it that time of the week again?

[Bbizzle]

Nerf Marauders they are tanky and do crazy damage

Nerf Powertechs they do crazy burst damage and have Stuns out the ***

Nerf Snipers they are immune to CC and do crazy burst damage

Nerf Operatives there are teams of them stunlocking people

Nerf Mercernaries they kill me with two buttons

Nerf Assassins they do everything better than everyone

Nerf Juggernauts they have crazy damage and mobility

Nerf Sorcerers they do crazy damage and have insane CC

 

^ This.

Let's just nerf the game down to 3 buttons. 1) Attack 2) heal 3) Stun

[Sagansfire]

Nerf Marauders they are tanky and do crazy damage

Nerf Powertechs they do crazy burst damage and have Stuns out the ***

Nerf Snipers they are immune to CC and do crazy burst damage

Nerf Operatives there are teams of them stunlocking people

Nerf Mercernaries they kill me with two buttons

Nerf Assassins they do everything better than everyone

Nerf Juggernauts they have crazy damage and mobility

Nerf Sorcerers they do crazy damage and have insane CC

 

Correct. Just nerf the whole game. Give us all digital bats and 1 ability and see who can mash the button fastest. It'll be like Hungry Hungry Hippos, and I owned at HHH back in the day, you punks. So watch out.

[obi-joachim]

Nerf Operatives!

[ComeAndSee]

I rather re-elevate the situation once they take out the Relics and Potions.

[Vycwulf]

In other words, as long as people continue to look at this game in terms of 1v1 there are always going to be some classes that outperform others. But, if you take the game as a team game where 1 characters abilities complement anothers it isn't really too far out of balance. Edited June 16, 2012 by Vycwulf

[AngusFTW]

I found 2 that really needs re-rounding

 

Pyro Techs

Maurders

 

TBH, these classes don't need skill, BW gave them OP abilities without testing in there shop before releasing 1.2.

Either BW enjoys this flavor of the month or they are not educated enough to understand class balancing and just shuffled the cards and see whats happens.

Sounds like the designers of BW are poker players then programmers

sentinels dont need skill.. have you played one?

[ComeAndSee]

In other words, as long as people continue to look at this game in terms of 1v1 there are always going to be some classes that outperform others. But, if you take the game as a team game where 1 characters abilities complement anothers it isn't really too far out of balance.

 

Well it's hard to "balance" the game when people use potions + relics and do 8k AOE auto-crit smashes on light armors for example.

 

I don't believe the changes next patch will be a big noticeable TTK difference, but it'll stop the recruit geared Commando's critting my War Hero geared Tank Vanguard for 5k high impact bolts.

Edited June 16, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Zoiks]

What they need to do is stop nerfing and truly rebalance the pvp mechanics to make sense. Eliminating some of the dependence on damage burst cooldowns is a good first step, but there's so much more that needs to be done.

 

Tanks need to do significantly LESS damage while using a TANK spec.

 

Dps need to have no access to TANK abilities without taking the TANK spec, such as guard, taunt, or overly effective defensive abilities without HEAVY dps penalties while using them.

 

ALL effects that cause immunities need to be given an obvious visual effect.

 

Taunts and guard both need to be improved such that the opposing team can easily tell WHO has taunted them, or WHO is guarding whom. Not to mention taunt specifically needs to have repercussions added to it, for instance the taunter taking increased damage from the characters they taunt.

 

Dispels need to be added to counter buffs.

 

DOTs need to be improved significantly. The damage ticks should cause pushback to ALL cast time activations. And in order to balance DOTs with cleanse, DOTs that don't have an initial damage spike on activation either need to have greatly increased effect, or have a damage burst effect upon cleansing, either to the cleanser or the cleansee.

 

Cast time abilities need to have some measure of benefit to the caster. Whether that be increased effectiveness over non-cast time abilities, immunity to interrupt/cc while casting, damage mitigation while casting, increased effectiveness of heals while casting, etc.

 

ALL CC (including roots, snares, and interrupts) need to be rebalanced for the purpose of resolve if they're going to actually keep this crappy mechanic. Logic needs to be applied to the design, resolve given should be the same for the same type of CC applied and directly proportional to the actual time spent CCed. Also resolve itself needs to be cleaned up, it's not even remotely consistent currently.

 

And utility balance needs to be addressed, rather than just ignored.

 

Without those kinds of changes I really don't see how any semblance of balance can be achieved in this game by cherry picking out one class or the other for nerfs.

[GzGViper]

In my opinion Assassin/Shadows got the nerf they needed. Marauders only need Undying rage removed.

[FourTwent]

I found 2 that really needs re-rounding

 

Pyro Techs

Maurders

 

TBH, these classes don't need skill, BW gave them OP abilities without testing in there shop before releasing 1.2.

Either BW enjoys this flavor of the month or they are not educated enough to understand class balancing and just shuffled the cards and see whats happens.

Sounds like the designers of BW are poker players then programmers

 

seriously speaking, quit crying for nerfs

[Benets]

What they need to do is stop nerfing and truly rebalance the pvp mechanics to make sense. Eliminating some of the dependence on damage burst cooldowns is a good first step, but there's so much more that needs to be done.

 

Tanks need to do significantly LESS damage while using a TANK spec.

 

Dps need to have no access to TANK abilities without taking the TANK spec, such as guard, taunt, or overly effective defensive abilities without HEAVY dps penalties while using them.

 

ALL effects that cause immunities need to be given an obvious visual effect.

 

Taunts and guard both need to be improved such that the opposing team can easily tell WHO has taunted them, or WHO is guarding whom. Not to mention taunt specifically needs to have repercussions added to it, for instance the taunter taking increased damage from the characters they taunt.

 

Dispels need to be added to counter buffs.

 

DOTs need to be improved significantly. The damage ticks should cause pushback to ALL cast time activations. And in order to balance DOTs with cleanse, DOTs that don't have an initial damage spike on activation either need to have greatly increased effect, or have a damage burst effect upon cleansing, either to the cleanser or the cleansee.

 

Cast time abilities need to have some measure of benefit to the caster. Whether that be increased effectiveness over non-cast time abilities, immunity to interrupt/cc while casting, damage mitigation while casting, increased effectiveness of heals while casting, etc.

 

ALL CC (including roots, snares, and interrupts) need to be rebalanced for the purpose of resolve if they're going to actually keep this crappy mechanic. Logic needs to be applied to the design, resolve given should be the same for the same type of CC applied and directly proportional to the actual time spent CCed. Also resolve itself needs to be cleaned up, it's not even remotely consistent currently.

 

And utility balance needs to be addressed, rather than just ignored.

 

Without those kinds of changes I really don't see how any semblance of balance can be achieved in this game by cherry picking out one class or the other for nerfs.

 

Yep, this is more or less what i think. This game have some dumb logic. Some of this dumb logic they got from wow, copying wow. Like, there's no logic or reason in the lore to have force shield, this is to copy priest and mage shield, they should improve the defense of this class and take out shield. Some tech class have reason to use shield not a sage. They should nerf the froce leaps and jumps., it's tottaly ridiculous, you cant get free from a melee. No matter what you do to find a good spot. You lost 30 seconds to get on a plataform, the knight reach you with one force leap and they can use it all the time. This is dumb, the class name should be JEDI FROG and FROG WARRIORS. Theres no advantage in ranged if all melee can come close to you and you can't get rid of them. Other stupid thing is, some melee have stronger pushback than ranged, they can toss you far than ranged. The point is, melee shouldn't throw people away that much, they're MELEE they supposed to keep closer, not throw sombody some miles away in the other hand, ranged supposed to try to keep enemys far, so they shouold have a long pushback to keep the distance, as sage you do a pushback and if the other player, the enmy walk a single step on your direction he's already hitting you, plus they have a lot of ranged attacks that do more damage than ranged chars. If they have force leap all the time, ranged should have sprint all the time, similar cooldowns.

 

This is the same problem wow have, they do not limitate the classes by their function, here is the same, if a tank reduce 50% oif damage, they should do something like 50% of the damage a dps do.

 

Tank should tank, healer should heal and dps should dps.

And if sombody do burst damage in long term they should not do the same damage that a class that do not have burst. It's kinda annoying got killed in 3 seconds while you always need 10 seconds to kill sombody, if you can kill it alone.

[Lovia]

I found 2 that really needs re-rounding

 

Pyro Techs

Maurders

 

i dont wanna blow your mind or anything, but what IF these two classes are performing on the arbitrary values bioware design them as targets for dps specs and its simply that other classes are lackluster?

[Lovia]

I rather re-elevate the situation once they take out the Relics and Potions.

 

thats like mature behavior,

sorry sir you post has no place in these forums.

 

Id like to direct you to either pts or class forums.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Lovia

[Garmose]

The three things that matter for any class in PvP are utility, survivability and damage.

 

Each class should be strong in one and weaker in the other two.

 

As it is, only Assassins and PTs have no weakness in any of these categories, hence they should be adjusted.

 

I'd begged to differ. As a madness sorc I have 2/3, being utility and damage.

[Sniffle]

Yep, this is more or less what i think. This game have some dumb logic. Some of this dumb logic they got from wow, copying wow. Like, there's no logic or reason in the lore to have force shield, this is to copy priest and mage shield, they should improve the defense of this class and take out shield. Some tech class have reason to use shield not a sage. They should nerf the froce leaps and jumps., it's tottaly ridiculous, you cant get free from a melee. No matter what you do to find a good spot. You lost 30 seconds to get on a plataform, the knight reach you with one force leap and they can use it all the time. This is dumb, the class name should be JEDI FROG and FROG WARRIORS. Theres no advantage in ranged if all melee can come close to you and you can't get rid of them. Other stupid thing is, some melee have stronger pushback than ranged, they can toss you far than ranged. The point is, melee shouldn't throw people away that much, they're MELEE they supposed to keep closer, not throw sombody some miles away in the other hand, ranged supposed to try to keep enemys far, so they shouold have a long pushback to keep the distance, as sage you do a pushback and if the other player, the enmy walk a single step on your direction he's already hitting you, plus they have a lot of ranged attacks that do more damage than ranged chars. If they have force leap all the time, ranged should have sprint all the time, similar cooldowns.

 

This is the same problem wow have, they do not limitate the classes by their function, here is the same, if a tank reduce 50% oif damage, they should do something like 50% of the damage a dps do.

 

Tank should tank, healer should heal and dps should dps.

And if sombody do burst damage in long term they should not do the same damage that a class that do not have burst. It's kinda annoying got killed in 3 seconds while you always need 10 seconds to kill sombody, if you can kill it alone.

 

Sounds like a good idea...except that without the ability to jump up (to a face to face situation where you can both pew pew each other) when you knock the melee off that platform you get to DPS them while they slooooowly walk back to you. How about ranged can only DPS onto the same level of the arena they're on...and have melee be able to attack from ranged so that both have an equal chance to attack. Leaps are balanced.

 

To the best of my knowledge ranged DPS aren't penalized from using skills from point blank, nor should they have the ability to only be pressured by melee every 30 secs.

[ComeAndSee]

There's no "tank" specs. IMHO in PvP, just classes that can use Guard on other players while in their "tank" stance.

 

1. All Guardians, Shadows, and Vanguards have access to Taunt and AOE taunt in any stance.

2. All said above can change stance and guard somebody if needed without sacrificing much damage. There are even hybrid dps builds around the tank trees.

3. All said above have access to the same defensive cooldowns as their tank specs.

4. The tank talent trees are not entirely defense oriented as you would expect from other MMOs.

5. Gear is what makes you a "Tank", but only a fraction of your defense stats actually work in PvP because most abilities bypass them completely. This makes stacking high amounts of defense stats almost pointless which in turn makes wearing DPS gear as a Tank more attractive.

 

Guard can be a quick way to commit self-suicide if you aren't being healed so it is situational. Taunts have relatively long cooldowns (15s and 45s) and they aren't nearly punishing enough on DPS unless they're hitting your guarded target. Also, tanks can only really protect one person at a time.

 

//

 

TLDR;

 

Really a Tank is just a DPS that has Guard, higher HP, and is focused less often. If taunts had shorter cooldowns, guard was our puppy, there were talents to make our cooldowns "better" than our dps specs, and defense stats worked better than they would be the real "Tanks" in PvP and could get justifiable nerfs in damage.

Edited June 17, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[FourTwent]

In other words, as long as people continue to look at this game in terms of 1v1 there are always going to be some classes that outperform others. But, if you take the game as a team game where 1 characters abilities complement anothers it isn't really too far out of balance.

 

+1 for logic good isr

[iTryHard]

Yep, this is more or less what i think. This game have some dumb logic. Some of this dumb logic they got from wow, copying wow. Like, there's no logic or reason in the lore to have force shield, this is to copy priest and mage shield, they should improve the defense of this class and take out shield. Some tech class have reason to use shield not a sage. They should nerf the froce leaps and jumps., it's tottaly ridiculous, you cant get free from a melee. No matter what you do to find a good spot. You lost 30 seconds to get on a plataform, the knight reach you with one force leap and they can use it all the time. This is dumb, the class name should be JEDI FROG and FROG WARRIORS. Theres no advantage in ranged if all melee can come close to you and you can't get rid of them. Other stupid thing is, some melee have stronger pushback than ranged, they can toss you far than ranged. The point is, melee shouldn't throw people away that much, they're MELEE they supposed to keep closer, not throw sombody some miles away in the other hand, ranged supposed to try to keep enemys far, so they shouold have a long pushback to keep the distance, as sage you do a pushback and if the other player, the enmy walk a single step on your direction he's already hitting you, plus they have a lot of ranged attacks that do more damage than ranged chars. If they have force leap all the time, ranged should have sprint all the time, similar cooldowns.

 

This is the same problem wow have, they do not limitate the classes by their function, here is the same, if a tank reduce 50% oif damage, they should do something like 50% of the damage a dps do.

 

Tank should tank, healer should heal and dps should dps.

And if sombody do burst damage in long term they should not do the same damage that a class that do not have burst. It's kinda annoying got killed in 3 seconds while you always need 10 seconds to kill sombody, if you can kill it alone.

Look, I see what you're trying to get at here. But if you're a RDPS class, chances are you have a KB, sure I can leap up to you, but when you knock me off the platform into the Pit (Huttball) I'm stuck twiddling my thumbs for ~10 seconds (Assuming we have 12s CD leap and you KB'd me 2s into the fight). Plus if you're a sorc you do have lots of CC =p. By the way, nerf Operatives, those dang 2.5k Hidden Strikes are really OP.

P.S. I agree with the poor Mercs/Commandos, they really need a buff, i.e. way shorter CD on KB, a root (*cough* sniper *cough*), or some kind of slow (Sweltering Heat in Assault Specialist Tree does NOT count).

[FodderofCannon]

SNIPER/GUNSLINGER. By a landslide. They are the secret that's killing you in every warzone.

 

Its a wonder people don't get this...

[TormentAU]

Nerf Marauders they are tanky and do crazy damage

Nerf Powertechs they do crazy burst damage and have Stuns out the ***

Nerf Snipers they are immune to CC and do crazy burst damage

Nerf Operatives there are teams of them stunlocking people

Nerf Mercernaries they kill me with two buttons

Nerf Assassins they do everything better than everyone

Nerf Juggernauts they have crazy damage and mobility

Nerf Sorcerers they do crazy damage and have insane CC

 

This post just made my day

[Totaltrash]

I'd begged to differ. As a madness sorc I have 2/3, being utility and damage.

 

Ok, maybe I should have said:

No class should be strong in all 3 categories.

 

Sorcs are so weak in survivabilitiy, that it is ok that they have lots utility and damge.

 

Unlike Assassins and PTs, who have lots of survivablity, lots of utility, and still do considerable damage.