Free Character Transfers Now Available On Select Servers

[Jasonito]

Do you think its fair that so many of us are stuck i wastelands with noone to even play with. Even after you have been on for hours and hours?

 

Yea give me a 20 minute que any day to the wasteland they have desertede us on.

 

I'm waiting for transfer too, it's happening on monday, the unfairness that you talk about is ZOMG! some other people get to play on the spanking new servers this weekend while we have to wait till monday! Blar! I want my ball back!

 

The wasteland that you are currently deserted on is no different to how it was last week, or last month, or the last 3 months. Subjecting others to log-in queues just so that you get to play PVP a day or two earlier is just plain selfishness.

[Chartman]

Remember that I am only speculating, as are we all...

 

 

 

Not a mass return, but however, I think the "Star War" IP does carry a certain level of loyalty that other fledgling MMO's do not. Under the right circumstances, and with enough hard work, I believe it's possible to recover a sizeable amount of the subscriptions lost, but I do agree it's going to be a long difficult road for them. They are going to have to get really creative and not give up, despite the abuse being heaped on them.

 

I'm just coming up with possibilities as to what they are "monitoring" by waiting until the weekend to continue any further transfers to selected servers. As I don't have access to the data or the meetings they have, and since they are not sharing any of it with us, I start with the following presumptions:

 

1. They AREN'T doing it just to irritate us
   
2. They AREN'T lazy
   
3. Bioware is a successful game company (however currently unpopular with recent game releases) so I find it unlikely they are just "winging it"
   
4. They have some kind of genuine concern at the END of the transfers that they didn't at the beginning.
   
5. They have the information necessary to make this kind of decision, knowing FULL WELL how unpopular it was going to be
   

 

Clearly, I can be wrong on any or all of these. I'm just trying to work out what is likely with the information I have without making leaps in logic. The problem with most of these forums is that the posts are usually so wrought with hyperbole that serious discussion can't take place.

 

There's also the anger factor, and when someone is in "rage mode" (not you), it's unlikely you are going to reason with them if you don't agree.

 

 

 

Agreed, but once again, we have no idea what the actual numbers are or what the issues are they are having as they aren't about to share any kind of technical or procedural failings with us. I completely concede that they may be doing something wrong, I just have no reason to START with that presumption, myself.

 

I'm completely aware that "crap happens" sometimes and depending on the possible outcome, a corporation is going to keep it under wraps as best they can. It may be just a simple mistake that had catastrophic consequences that some will use as "proof" of incompetence but others would just view as a mistake, nothing more.

 

I'll also concede that you may be completely right about the data they could use. I honestly don't presume to be a statistical expert. I just don't understand what the previous populations on specific days, servers etc are going to tell you about a situation where transfers are given to the public as an option, rather than a requirement - it puts an extremely random factor into the equation.

 

Most people would want to transfer to a populated server. But as I've seen from many of these posts, many don't want to, some WANT to be on a "medium population" server rather than a full one, some want to transfer to a different server once those transfers become available. All these factors - to me - seem like reasonable considerations before allowing transfer to a server that may already be full (if the active populations of those servers ALL decide to transfer over)

 

IGN is now reporting another 400,000 subscription loss. So the possibility that they aren't cut out to run an MMO is completely possible. There's no doubt that the subscribers were fed up with waiting for results. the damage MAY be irreversible.

 

 

 

So honestly, what is your evaluation. Do you believe that they are just incapable of running an MMO? Are they deliberately ignoring this information that you say is so easy to collect and use? What would you guess would be their reasoning behind taking this particular path to repair the populations?

 

Maybe I'm overly optimistic, I can admit that. I have a little more faith in them as industry professionals. Personally I make the assumption that they have a really good reason, if they are willing to put up with the levels of negativity and hostility being spewed at them and their reputation as a company. But who knows...

 

If I were to guess, they came in with a basic plan with very little in he way of contingencies. The transfers were more popular than they assumed and the servers filled faster than they expected. May not be a popular opinion here, but the best way to do this would have been a forced merger of a set number of servers (Based on total population mixed with average utiltization) to a set destination server, set this up for all server types/regions (Sorry foreign language RP'ers), and merge every account during a scheduled downtime so the moves could be batched and done quickly. It would have been a very predictable outcome for the total populations. The way they did it by basically merging 60% at once and then throwing a few in here and there to fill the proverbial pots is much more of a guessing game based off of a day or two of metrics instead of basing this off a far larger sample set of about the least two months (From 1.2 on so we get the high pops of the first few weeks vs the low pops of the last few weeks). In the end, they are a big company, they have a plan, but that doesnt always mean it was the best plan (Nor am I saying mine is either). Big gaming company does not equate to big server management company. A hosting service like GoDaddy could probably have handled something like this in a 30 minute meeting, implemented it in 24 hours, and had very little fallout because its what they do, day in and day out. Here's to hoping they get it together because the other servers populations are dwindling even further over the weekends.

[MrGrizzly]

I apologize for being blunt, but this is somewhat patronizing and in some ways really undervalues the compassion and empathy that those who have received transfers can feel for those who have not. Everyone who has received a transfer knows full well what its like to be without a queue, a group, an economy, or anything else that makes the game fun for them. We've all been there, and I think all but the most selfish of us are sorry for those who are still waiting.

 

That doesn't mean that we can't also ask those still waiting to be reasonable about the whole thing. To be disappointed or frustrated is understandable, but to be vile and nasty about it as some (though not, of course, all) have been is not.

 

Like I said above, I - and many of those who have received transfers - are still waiting for something else and will be waiting even longer: getting the characters together from their new server and the one they re-rolled on while waiting. I'm in this boat, and I'm bummed out about it - but in the end I'll get it eventually, and that's OK.

 

Those who are still waiting are unlucky to be sure, but in a few days they'll be on nice new servers, having fun, and in about a week and a half they won't even be thinking about this anymore. Cheer up, and be hopeful!

 

Well said. +1

[Skolops]

This would be true if this was a F2P game. We all *paid* the same amount of money to play, we should all be treated *equally*. There is clearly a bias against west coast servers.

 

You pay the same amount for lunch as the guy in front of you.

 

I pay the same amount of taxes as the next guy, but sometimes when I file my taxes my return check doesn't come for weeks while others get their's first.

 

At the grocery store, my bread costs the same as the guy who's in line in front of me, and sometimes they even open up a new register for the people BEHIND me who want to buy bread too but have already been waiting less time than I.

 

This is life. Sometimes we're at the front of the line, sometimes at the back, and there's no inequity about it.

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

I'm happy to see that there's some element of reason in your post in that you recognize the need for monitoring over time, rather than simply for short periods. .

 

The main thrust of the complaint in my first post that you disagreed with was that they added orgin servers too fast which did not allow for monitoring.

 

They announced 9 servers to 1 which resulted in queuing by day 2. They should have announced 6 and then waited until after the weekend before announcing 3 more if they still needed them. By announcing them in the span of 2-3 days they can't monitor them that well so there is a definite risk that they announced 9 when it should have been 8 (or even 7).

Edited June 16, 2012 by Arlbo_Nabbins

[Nyteblades]

This would be a fair statement if, two weeks from now, you were still not transferred. Given that the whole process started two days ago, its not.

 

If you're still sitting with no transfer on Monday or Tuesday, then you can legitimately complain. Short of that, its just impatient. It's like someone who ends up at the end of the lunch line in high school starting a campaign to say that the town's education system isn't providing them with food.

 

In life, sometimes we get at the front of the line, and sometimes the back. When we're at the front, its good, and when we're at the back, it stinks. Part of being a mature and healthy member of any community - whether one's country, one's family, or a gaming community - is being reasonable and patient when we get put at the end of the line, and respectful of those behind us when we're up front.

 

Do not try to compare a gaming comunity to someone being a mature member of a country or a family. Some of us gave quite a bit for our country to prove our membership as you put it. And some of us also lost family and more to prove our membership for our country and protecting our families.

 

There is no comparison in those things and any gaming community. So please choose your words more carefully before comparing us vets and families to a game comunity .

 

So unless your there the next time they cutting on me to repair the damage i sustained being a mature member of my country . Or the next time i visit my brothers grave because he was a mature member of our country .

 

You have no right to compare ....

[Thyferra]

This would be a fair statement if, two weeks from now, you were still not transferred. Given that the whole process started two days ago, its not.

 

If you're still sitting with no transfer on Monday or Tuesday, then you can legitimately complain. Short of that, its just impatient. It's like someone who ends up at the end of the lunch line in high school starting a campaign to say that the town's education system isn't providing them with food.

 

In life, sometimes we get at the front of the line, and sometimes the back. When we're at the front, its good, and when we're at the back, it stinks. Part of being a mature and healthy member of any community - whether one's country, one's family, or a gaming community - is being reasonable and patient when we get put at the end of the line, and respectful of those behind us when we're up front.

 

When they got time to test ranked warzones this weekend they have time to transfer the remaining 40 servers. This got nothing to do with being impatient. Noone had to be that far in the back on this. There was time to finish this today. BW did not care enough.

Like i said many times befor the euro situation is so obvious that there was no need to wait and wait for data. The situation with the two us pvp servers is obvious as well. That leaves 20 servers in the us that still need to transfer.

I dont know much about the us server situation but from what i can tell right now is that current destination servers are on heavy already and i gues wont be able to hold another 13 servers in the east. So pick one of the remaining servers and make it a destination for the others.

That leaves 7 servers in the west. I am not sure if those alone can form a heavy server. If they can make it happen if they cant transfer them to current destination servers.

[Spiritinblack]

You pay the same amount for lunch as the guy in front of you.

 

I pay the same amount of taxes as the next guy, but sometimes when I file my taxes my return check doesn't come for weeks while others get their's first.

 

At the grocery store, my bread costs the same as the guy who's in line in front of me, and sometimes they even open up a new register for the people BEHIND me who want to buy bread too but have already been waiting less time than I.

 

This is life. Sometimes we're at the front of the line, sometimes at the back, and there's no inequity about it.

 

The point you aare missing is the line you are in is now CLOSED. All of them actually just closed. For a couple days. Now instead of getting the bread that you were waiting in line for... you are told to come back in two, three, whoever knows how many days..... See the difference.

[Skolops]

The main thrust of the complaint in my first post that you disagreed with was that they added orgin servers too fast which did not allow for monitoring.

 

They announced 9 servers to 1 which resulted in queuing by day 2. They should have announced 6 and then waited until after the weekend before announcing 3 more if they still needed them. By announcing them in the span of 2-3 days they can't monitor them that well so there is a definite risk that they announced 9 when it should have been 8 (or even 7).

 

With the reaction that is happening now to skipping the weekend, can you blame them for not wanting to do that and hoping they'd be able to do it all by Friday?

[Dokar]

You pay the same amount for lunch as the guy in front of you.

 

I pay the same amount of taxes as the next guy, but sometimes when I file my taxes my return check doesn't come for weeks while others get their's first.

 

At the grocery store, my bread costs the same as the guy who's in line in front of me, and sometimes they even open up a new register for the people BEHIND me who want to buy bread too but have already been waiting less time than I.

 

This is life. Sometimes we're at the front of the line, sometimes at the back, and there's no inequity about it.

 

I know restaurants that give free appetizers for those waiting to get in and free desserts if the manager feels a meal wasn't served fast enough. How you treat those you left waiting says as much as how you treat those you have taken care of.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Dokar

[Skolops]

Do not try to compare a gaming comunity to someone being a mature member of a country or a family. Some of us gave quite a bit for our country to prove our membership as you put it. And some of us also lost family and more to prove our membership for our country and protecting our families.

 

There is no comparison in those things and any gaming community. So please choose your words more carefully before comparing us vets and families to a game comunity .

 

So unless your there the next time they cutting on me to repair the damage i sustained being a mature member of my country . Or the next time i visit my brothers grave because he was a mature member of our country .

 

You have no right to compare ....

 

You're kindof making my point.

 

If people can be mature and patient when it comes to stuff like that which ACTUALLY MATTERS, why should we not expect it of them when it comes to something as utterly stupid and meaningless as a video game?

[bjbm]

You pay the same amount for lunch as the guy in front of you.

 

I pay the same amount of taxes as the next guy, but sometimes when I file my taxes my return check doesn't come for weeks while others get their's first.

 

At the grocery store, my bread costs the same as the guy who's in line in front of me, and sometimes they even open up a new register for the people BEHIND me who want to buy bread too but have already been waiting less time than I.

 

This is life. Sometimes we're at the front of the line, sometimes at the back, and there's no inequity about it.

 

Sure I pay the same amount for lunch as the guy infront of me, but he ran there faster than me. I did not get *any* chance to run here. Here is more like the hall monitor is choosing all her favorite kids to get in line first. If there was a window of opportunity to "sign up" for transfer, and I was too slow, then maybe I wouldn't feel so cheated by BW.

 

You other analogies is once against based on the analogy that I had a *chance* at some kind of control. I could have ran to the front of the line. I could have been a jerk and cut in front. Etc etc. But in this case, we had ZERO control. BW is the gatekeeper here, and they hold all the cards. They chose who gets to go to the promise lands, and who gets to sit AFK in fleet.

 

Like I said, if this was F2P than I have no grounds to be bitter. But we all paid the same amount, and to royally screw 20% (no small number!), shame on BW. If 1% of these people tell their friends to not buy this game, BW already lost.

[SidneyFault]

Devs,

 

frankly the way this whole this has been handled has not been well.. I know you had the best intentions but seriously this is nothing but a disaster. letting people transfer to servers to create higher populations only to have Que up to play again is one of the worst things. Right after launch there was a huge debate over Que times which was made very clear to you that this was not ever going to be acceptable... and here you go taking huge steps backward. there is no justification for this. I have been trying to get some of my friends and guild mates to come back to the game and then you do this.. killed my server, which is basically going to force me to abandon my guild and pay in game to restart it because my server is a ghost town this is not right.. I completely understand that people what to be able to play with other people but seriously come on there had to be a better way... this exactly way most of the people I know that have walked away from the game are complaining about... your loosing players and this is not a way to salvage this situation by driving away even more...

 

CROSS SERVER pvp or operations would have solved this issue far better than killing whole servers and overpopulating the rest... especially when most of the community as been asking for exactly that.... this does nothing but upset everyone. I can't believe this is your solution..

 

Come on Devs get it together.. I got faith in you but your only making it harder and harder to stay with you.

[Skolops]

The point you aare missing is the line you are in is now CLOSED. All of them actually just closed. For a couple days. Now instead of getting the bread that you were waiting in line for... you are told to come back in two, three, whoever knows how many days..... See the difference.

 

No, not really. Waiting is waiting.

 

In any case, I've been in stores where they had to close down due to a technical problem. I've been shopping only to have them run out of the item I need and having to wait a day or two. It's a part of life: sometimes technical or physical limitations make some people get stuck waiting a bit longer. It's unfortunate for them, but we all have times when that's where we are, and times where we are fortunate enough to be the guy that got the last one on the shelf.

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

The problem here as I see it, from reading the posts of others, is that people are frightened to death of not getting the same value for their dollar as others. The biggest gripe about us waiting until monday for our transfers is that, we pay the same sub as the other 80%, so why should they enjoy a weekend of high pop without us!

 

Seriously, grow up! This and the million and one threads I've seen created QQing over having to change their character names is pathetic.

 

That is not my gripe, I am still waiting for my transfer and the wait doesn't bother me. My gripe is that by announcing transfers too fast they ended up filling some servers completely before the weekend prime times, that means that for those still waiting for an announcement we will almost certainly have a new destination and that server may not be full enough, a problem that could have been avoided if they delayed announcing quite as many servers to the first sets of destinations.

 

A well populated sever is not necessarily a completely full one, if you have 500+ on fleet at prime you will be able to do group content easily, so 550 is probably the level they should have been looking for after the initial announcements rather than the 700+ that we have had reported, it leaves space to grow if needed and a greater ability to redirect people if another destination is looking a bit sparse. The delay in announcing more servers would have given a better chance of balanced server populations after a 2nd round of announcements that gave them a weekend to monitor how its going, they would have had 5-7 days of monitoring in that case.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Arlbo_Nabbins

[Eitri]

The thing here is that you're mistaken about the potential accuracy of the calculations you're suggesting. You could use current population and activity numbers to do this kind of calculation if you had a stable environment from which to work in the first place, but they don't. There are a number of factors playing into this:

 

- The game is relatively new. It's hard to get solid numbers in the first few months of a game like this because its certain that the population will spike with people checking it out at first before settling down after a few months.

 

- The game's population has been very finicky so far, with many subbing, unsubbing, and subbing again, or subbing but not playing as they wait for the next patch, after which they intend to play again or unsub.

 

- There have been some activity spikes which have skewed the already small sample size (as its a new game) of numbers, such as the Rakghoul event which saw a massive activity spike followed by an equally large drop off.

 

These, among other factors, make it a very unwise idea to try to use activity and population data from the past to try to evaluate transfers predicatively. The data is not entirely useless, but its not solid enough to stand on its own. It makes quite a bit of sense that pairing it with some real time but short term observation (like the first weekend post-transfer) will allow for the best evaluations they are going to be able to get short of extended (weeks to months) in between transfers.

 

Yes, the data is uncertain. That should be part of the model that drives the plan. If the uncertainty of the data is causing them to hesitate with this few servers left, then they didn't model the problem well enough.

 

I would have a different opinion if their track record was better, but between opening tons of new servers after launch and now I'm skeptical that they're doing the right thing.

[Dokar]

No, not really. Waiting is waiting.

 

In any case, I've been in stores where they had to close down due to a technical problem. I've been shopping only to have them run out of the item I need and having to wait a day or two. It's a part of life: sometimes technical or physical limitations make some people get stuck waiting a bit longer. It's unfortunate for them, but we all have times when that's where we are, and times where we are fortunate enough to be the guy that got the last one on the shelf.

 

unless you had to pay before going into shop you analogy is flawed.

[Skolops]

I know restaurants that give free appetizers for those waiting to get in and free desserts if the manager feels a meal wasn't served fast enough. How you treat those you left waiting says as much as how you treat those you have taken care of.

 

Here we come to a critical point: I frankly do not consider waiting two or three days to be equivalent to a meal taking longer than it should. A process like opening up server transfers to fix wildly imbalanced server populations is one which I think can reasonably be expected to take some time - in fact, I think if they are done by Tuesday it will be quite the accomplishment to have gotten it done in only one week's time, considering the uncertain nature of populations and activity that they're having to account for and deal with.

[Skolops]

Sure I pay the same amount for lunch as the guy infront of me, but he ran there faster than me. I did not get *any* chance to run here. Here is more like the hall monitor is choosing all her favorite kids to get in line first. If there was a window of opportunity to "sign up" for transfer, and I was too slow, then maybe I wouldn't feel so cheated by BW.

 

You other analogies is once against based on the analogy that I had a *chance* at some kind of control. I could have ran to the front of the line. I could have been a jerk and cut in front. Etc etc. But in this case, we had ZERO control. BW is the gatekeeper here, and they hold all the cards. They chose who gets to go to the promise lands, and who gets to sit AFK in fleet.

 

Like I said, if this was F2P than I have no grounds to be bitter. But we all paid the same amount, and to royally screw 20% (no small number!), shame on BW. If 1% of these people tell their friends to not buy this game, BW already lost.

 

Yes, no analogy is perfect. In those cases, there is an element of control. That said, if we thought hard enough I am sure we could come up with examples where there is no control.

 

The taxes example is one. Theoretically it works on a first come, first serve basis, but in practice this isn't how it happens. Some people submit their stuff earlier and wait for the check in the mail longer, or, more commonly, submit at the same time but wait longer. For example, the IRS can only process so many returns a day, so if my return and yours show up at the office on the same Friday, there's plenty of chance you'll get your stuff processed starting that day and mine won't start until Monday, leaving you with some extra money for a few days while I am still waiting for the mail.

 

Other things in life are like this. It's just one of those aspects of life. If we can put up with it for stuff which actually matters, why the heck can't we for stuff that doesn't?

[BulldogzLife]

You pay the same amount for lunch as the guy in front of you.

 

I pay the same amount of taxes as the next guy, but sometimes when I file my taxes my return check doesn't come for weeks while others get their's first.

 

At the grocery store, my bread costs the same as the guy who's in line in front of me, and sometimes they even open up a new register for the people BEHIND me who want to buy bread too but have already been waiting less time than I.

 

This is life. Sometimes we're at the front of the line, sometimes at the back, and there's no inequity about it.

 

You are able to play, we are not, yet we are paying the same. That is not equal.

[Nyteblades]

You're kindof making my point.

 

If people can be mature and patient when it comes to stuff like that which ACTUALLY MATTERS, why should we not expect it of them when it comes to something as utterly stupid and meaningless as a video game?

 

Maybe because some of us are so tired of getting shafted by people who hold our leashes? Some things like orders you have no say in . An like you said those orders ACTUALY MATTER. We do them we havnt a choice. dosnt matter if we like them, dosnt matter if we disagree with them . We do them because thats what we do.

 

And we take what ever consequinces those orders bring. No matter the pain or discomfort it brings. Because we have no choice.

 

But things like this where we actualy can voice our disaproval or our distaste. These are things we hope we can change. And these are things we dont have to just blindly accept .

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

With the reaction that is happening now to skipping the weekend, can you blame them for not wanting to do that and hoping they'd be able to do it all by Friday?

 

Yes I do, they could have managed expectations by saying there would be a round of transfers announced Tuesday-Thursday then they would monitor it over the weekend and announce the 2nd round Monday-Wednesday to make sure that the populations were balanced and everyone got a good server that would be not too high and not too low but just right. People are less likely to be annoyed if they have a good idea of how long the delay would be and why there needs to be a delay.

 

By starting fast they built the expectation that it would all be done by Friday. Something that they have admitted that they were never going to do as they need a "weekend" to monitor things. The reaction is so bad because the delay is unexpected due to BW's scheduling of the announcements.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Arlbo_Nabbins

[Skolops]

Yes, the data is uncertain. That should be part of the model that drives the plan. If the uncertainty of the data is causing them to hesitate with this few servers left, then they didn't model the problem well enough.

 

I would have a different opinion if their track record was better, but between opening tons of new servers after launch and now I'm skeptical that they're doing the right thing.

 

I don't think its a matter of hesitation at all. Rather, I would suggest that their plans included various benchmarks, which upon being met would invoke certain contingencies. One such contingency was to study the activity and transfers over the weekend if a certain benchmark was met, which it was.

 

With data uncertain and untrustworthy as theirs is, this seems to be the only way to really have done it.

 

Look, if you want to criticize them I think their are plenty of things to do it about, but I do not believe that planning sufficiently for this transfer is one of those areas. I think they had a very thorough plan for this and its simply p0laying out as intended.

[Jasonito]

They announced 9 servers to 1 which resulted in queuing by day 2. They should have announced 6 and then waited until after the weekend before announcing 3 more if they still needed them. By announcing them in the span of 2-3 days they can't monitor them that well so there is a definite risk that they announced 9 when it should have been 8 (or even 7).

 

I have to agree with you mate, with all the best intentions I don't think they've managed the transfers very well. But you imagine the uproar if they would've taken even longer to do it than they have already. And what a lot of people don't seem to have taken into account is that on every server there will be regular players, who for whatever reason, haven't been available this last week to log on and transfer their toons. So there could be potentially a % still to transfer on servers that have been available for transfer this week.

 

If they do the remaining 20% on monday it means they've done all servers in a week, but this isn't good enough for most, because most people hate the thought that someone might be getting a better deal than they are. The QQing about this started after the first day of transfers "zomg! i pay the same sub but he got to transfer a day before me, and *drama drama* I've had to change the name of my toon, which has been in my family for 6 generations!"

 

The worst thing BW could do now is to over pop servers, so then you have people QQing (myself included lol) that we have to wait to log in and therefore need more servers.

[Skolops]

unless you had to pay before going into shop you analogy is flawed.

 

Sigh... again, analogies are not supposed to be, nor can they be, perfect one-to-one examples of the situation they're supposed to represent. They're meant to help illustrate general ideas, not to be exhaustive representations.

 

In any case, given that people do this all the time, its not flawed. Never heard of anyone ordering something only to end up waiting as the item runs out?