BulldogzLife Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 No, not really. Waiting is waiting. See you just don't get it. Your server has had transfers and you are able to play the game. You clearly aren't able to sympathize with the people who haven't had them and aren't able to play, no matter what you say. If my server had transfers, I'd be playing the game, and I'd feel bad for those who didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonito Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 If my server had transfers, I'd be playing the game, and I'd feel bad for those who didn't. So what have you been doing for the last few weeks/months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolops Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 You are able to play, we are not, yet we are paying the same. That is not equal. Not long ago, I was in the very same boat as yourself. Then, they started a process to fix this - a process which is intrinsically and unavoidably limited technically and practically. This process is in the middle. You're treating this as a binary, black or white situation when it is rather a process situation. It is like if you and I each had a broken leg and had started the treatment process. You may be further along than I and be able to walk somewhat while I am still stuck in bed. Processes take time and we will at various times be in various stages of them. Processes which involve multiple persons often allow some to receive benefit before others. It's how it goes, and as I've said, sometimes I wait and sometimes I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlbo_Nabbins Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 But you imagine the uproar if they would've taken even longer to do it than they have already. If they had been up front and said that announcing all the servers would take about 7-8 days because they needed to monitor it over the weekend so that they got the right number of people on each server there would have been some uproar, but my guess is that it would have been less if people were told roughly what they were planning and why it needed to be done that way. They still could have announced 60% of the origin servers by the close of business today rather than doing a big number on Wednesday. a few on Thursday and none today, that would have managed expectations and given them more options to get the numbers right by the end of the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolops Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Yes I do, they could have managed expectations by saying there would be a round of transfers announced Tuesday-Thursday then they would monitor it over the weekend and announce the 2nd round Monday-Wednesday to make sure that the populations were balanced and everyone got a good server that would be not too high and not too low but just right. People are less likely to be annoyed if they have a good idea of how long the delay would be and why there needs to be a delay. By starting fast they built the expectation that it would all be done by Friday. Something that they have admitted that they were never going to do as they need a "weekend" to monitor things. The reaction is so bad because the delay is unexpected due to BW's scheduling of the announcements. This is demonstrably false, though. First, they DID say long ago it would be a process and happen gradually, yet when on day one not every server was listed many people - myself included - tore into them when we just hadn't paid attention. Then, once they clarified once more that it would be a process and gradual, the people who got things done on Thursday instead of Wednesday STILL complained, even having now been told twice it wouldn't all happen at once. Really, its been constant whining since day one regardless of what they've tried to do to explain what's going on. People have attacked them for not communicating even things which they did communicate. It's fairly sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritinblack Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Sigh... again, analogies are not supposed to be, nor can they be, perfect one-to-one examples of the situation they're supposed to represent. They're meant to help illustrate general ideas, not to be exhaustive representations. In any case, given that people do this all the time, its not flawed. Never heard of anyone ordering something only to end up waiting as the item runs out? If I order something, and they run out, I have a choice of my money back, or waiting for it. If a store runs out of something I have a choice of going to antoehr store.... and not having to pay for anything at the original store. As someone else just said to you.... you don't get it. You wont get it. ( not a bad thing either as I'm really not trying to cause an actual argument with you). People are upset in two ways..... They are PAYING already for this. Now I'm sorry if you feel BW/EA whoever is doing the right thing here.... Alot don't. They could have said this was going to take this long, and stopped alot of QQ. ( Don't say it. They knew it was going to take this long. They had this planned. You don't do something like this without a plan) It is Bad business period. Look through the posts on this. I have not reall QQed. But, this is my statement now. Bad, very bad business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyteblades Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 This is demonstrably false, though. First, they DID say long ago it would be a process and happen gradually, yet when on day one not every server was listed many people - myself included - tore into them when we just hadn't paid attention. Then, once they clarified once more that it would be a process and gradual, the people who got things done on Thursday instead of Wednesday STILL complained, even having now been told twice it wouldn't all happen at once. Really, its been constant whining since day one regardless of what they've tried to do to explain what's going on. People have attacked them for not communicating even things which they did communicate. It's fairly sad. Its not what they communicate its how. They only give just enough info for people to draw thier own conclusions. When they give any at all. Or either they give some info then do things in a diffrent manor than they said. And want to say its the players fault for drawing conclusions. Where heres the thing maybe if they actualy gave a laid out plan or description to what thier plan is. It would leave alot less room for speculation. And disapointment. Sure some would cry anyways but the majority would take it for what it is and either wait or move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skolops Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 If I order something, and they run out, I have a choice of my money back, or waiting for it. If a store runs out of something I have a choice of going to antoehr store.... and not having to pay for anything at the original store. As someone else just said to you.... you don't get it. You wont get it. ( not a bad thing either as I'm really not trying to cause an actual argument with you). People are upset in two ways..... They are PAYING already for this. Now I'm sorry if you feel BW/EA whoever is doing the right thing here.... Alot don't. They could have said this was going to take this long, and stopped alot of QQ. ( Don't say it. They knew it was going to take this long. They had this planned. You don't do something like this without a plan) It is Bad business period. Look through the posts on this. I have not reall QQed. But, this is my statement now. Bad, very bad business. But they DID say it was going to take time. Yes, they DID. On day one, when my server was not listed and only 6 were, I ATTACKED the devs hardcore. I was not nice about it. Then, the mod posted a link to the page that was released 2 weeks ago explaining that this WAS going to take a bit of time once it started, and I realized I was being an idiot. The information was there, but I had not paid enough attention to see it - even though I'd read the very link the mod sent me when it was released in the first place. And again, even once they clarified AGAIN on Tuesday that this would take time, people STILL complained, so please do not say that if they had simply given more information people would be more understanding. This is the least understanding community - at least parts of it - I've ever found about anything. It's really incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlbo_Nabbins Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) This is demonstrably false, though. Its not false, by not managing expectations they left players to get their expectations solely from the announcements, Tuesday was slow (complaints of "this will take a month") and then they ramped up the numbers on Wednesday and Thursday ("yay it will all be done by the weekend") and then slowed it down and stopped on Friday because "they need to monitor things over the weekend". By managing expectations and spreading Wednesday/Thursday out over 3 days more evenly fewer people would have expected it would be done by the weekend and they would have had more time to monitor the moves. Edited June 16, 2012 by Arlbo_Nabbins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonito Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 If they had been up front and said that announcing all the servers would take about 7-8 days because they needed to monitor it over the weekend so that they got the right number of people on each server there would have been some uproar, but my guess is that it would have been less if people were told roughly what they were planning and why it needed to be done that way. They still could have announced 60% of the origin servers by the close of business today rather than doing a big number on Wednesday. a few on Thursday and none today, that would have managed expectations and given them more options to get the numbers right by the end of the process. I respectfully disagree, I think you're principle is right, however I doubt very much that players would've been any more understanding. I think part of the problem here has been that BW has tried to push it out as quickly as possible in order to please the masses. And the #1 gripe here is not really the amount of time it's taken, but the fact that people are not part of the Day 1 process, and therefore are, in their minds, short changed. The main complaint that I'm reading is the very childish "You've been transfered and I haven't, we pay the same sub, it's not fair" and the longer time it takes the stronger this gripe becomes. I never thought I'd say this, but I feel sorry for the devs on this one. I agree with you 100% about the poor application of these transfers, but I also think that they've been put in an impossible situation (largely due to themselves, bringing out way to many servers in the first place). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thyferra Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Just take a look at EQ2's recent server merge. There was a timetable when certain server would be merged. People knew up front how long they would have to wait and that was done over weeks. There was little to none upraor about it. And SOE is not really a shining example on how to manage their games. To be honest they area pretty bad example. Communication is key, always. But when it is so obvious what will happen next week (i predict 1 addtional destination for each of us east, eu english and eu german. In addtion to that the two pvp servers will merge with current destinations [that leaves only 7 servers i have no prediction for]) it is hard to understand why that hasnot happened today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokar Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 What happens to all these full servers if we get a 20% population spike with 1.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritinblack Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 But they DID say it was going to take time. Yes, they DID. On day one, when my server was not listed and only 6 were, I ATTACKED the devs hardcore. I was not nice about it. Then, the mod posted a link to the page that was released 2 weeks ago explaining that this WAS going to take a bit of time once it started, and I realized I was being an idiot. The information was there, but I had not paid enough attention to see it - even though I'd read the very link the mod sent me when it was released in the first place. And again, even once they clarified AGAIN on Tuesday that this would take time, people STILL complained, so please do not say that if they had simply given more information people would be more understanding. This is the least understanding community - at least parts of it - I've ever found about anything. It's really incredible. I did not explain it right. When I said this long I meant We are going to take from This day to this day. ( tell people two weeks) When it is finished earlier everyone rejoices. They knew on thursday that the were not going to do any on friday. Yet they said nothing. They could have come one here and said it was going to take a month overall. YES you would still get people who complain. But It would have been a hell of alot less. As for understanding....... Sorry not in this case. This is a multi-million dollar company. This should have been thought out and planned almost to a tee. There should have been full communication about it. Since , ya know we are PAYING the salaries of the people working here. ( well some of them). When I say full communication..... I mean all of it. We are doing this because of this. Go through some posts where a dev would comment about a problem in any game. Where they would give REAL information about what is going on. See how many QQ about it. I will put a years salary on it that it has alot less QQ. We wont see eye to eye on this ( not that we ever have to we are adults with differing opinions) So I will leave it at agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonito Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Communication is key, always. But when it is so obvious what will happen next week (i predict 1 addtional destination for each of us east, eu english and eu german. In addtion to that the two pvp servers will merge with current destinations [that leaves only 7 servers i have no prediction for]) it is hard to understand why that hasnot happened today. Yeah, that's a fair comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eitri Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I don't think its a matter of hesitation at all. Rather, I would suggest that their plans included various benchmarks, which upon being met would invoke certain contingencies. One such contingency was to study the activity and transfers over the weekend if a certain benchmark was met, which it was. With data uncertain and untrustworthy as theirs is, this seems to be the only way to really have done it. Look, if you want to criticize them I think their are plenty of things to do it about, but I do not believe that planning sufficiently for this transfer is one of those areas. I think they had a very thorough plan for this and its simply p0laying out as intended. I assume you mean they want to study the activity to avoid a certain outcome. Here are the possible outcomes over the weekend: 1) Destination servers are too full after weekenders initiate their transfers, people re-sub, or whatever. 2) Destination servers are still too empty, they'll dip below BW's threshold for a "healthy" population. 3) Destination servers are somewhere in between. I don't think 2) is currently a probable outcome since the destinations are already bumping up against queues. 3) is the good outcome so that leaves 1) as the one they're trying to avoid. By running the numbers and planning they would have known before they started the process how many destinations they needed and wouldn't need a weekend to monitor. They could and should have been conservative and opened slightly more servers than they thought they needed so they could fit all servers in before or during the weekend. And you're right, there are other things to complain about. Don't even get me started on them apparently overlooking the EU RP-PVP servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlbo_Nabbins Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I respectfully disagree, I think you're principle is right, however I doubt very much that players would've been any more understanding. I disagree, the moaners would moan unless they got their transfer on day 1. But more people would be satisfied if they had a rough timescale and were given a decent reason why it would take a week to announce everyone. Unhappy players yes, fewer unhappy players quite probably. I think part of the problem here has been that BW has tried to push it out as quickly as possible in order to please the masses. Always a bad idea, BW's #1 priority should have been to provide the best results at the end of the process, people might moan because they had to wait a whole week but if the results are good a decent proportion of them would stop moaning after their transfer and just be happy playing on well populated servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulldogzLife Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 The main complaint that I'm reading is the very childish "You've been transfered and I haven't, we pay the same sub, it's not fair" How is that complaint "very childish"? This is your opinion, and a biased one at that since you have been transferred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonito Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 How is that complaint "very childish"? This is your opinion, and a biased one at that since you have been transferred. lol I had 1 toon transfered (that I haven't played in months), and 6 that are awaiting transfer (including my main), are you now jealous of me too because a toon I don't even play has had it's free transfer? lol and you think this isn't childish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shneakie Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) I think a lot of the griping is overplayed... I too am on a server that hasn't transferred YET. It will happen. I'd rather they do it right than quickly. Waaaaaaaaaa.... so I don't get one weekend of better play. I can deal with that. They needn't have offered free xfers at all. They could have just opened paid transfers and listened to the roar of people qqing about having to pay to transfer. Get a grip people. Edited June 16, 2012 by Shneakie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuanbrist Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 ICE BREAKER PLEASE!!! LET ME LEAVE OR PUT PEOPLE ON SOON PLEASE AND THANK YOU:o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I think a lot of the griping is overplayed... I too am on a server that hasn't transferred YET. It will happen. I'd rather they do it right than quickly. Waaaaaaaaaa.... so I don't get one weekend of better play. I can deal with that. They needn't have offered free xfers at all. They could have just opened paid transfers and listened to the roar of people qqing about having to pay to transfer. Get a grip people. Yea, people. Its not like anyone from Bioware said yesterday that we will have transfers today or anything.... oh wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonecak Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 No, not really. Waiting is waiting. In any case, I've been in stores where they had to close down due to a technical problem. I've been shopping only to have them run out of the item I need and having to wait a day or two. It's a part of life: sometimes technical or physical limitations make some people get stuck waiting a bit longer. It's unfortunate for them, but we all have times when that's where we are, and times where we are fortunate enough to be the guy that got the last one on the shelf. You make an analogy like this is a required product. What is a couple of days? What is a couple of months? Here is my analogy...I dont buy cable because I only watch the news, I rent movies and watch what I want on the internet. I like to pay for what I use. Tell me to wait for an item I need and I go to another store. Well, this store is out of what I need....players to play with. So now I am being told to wait., again. I did that for two months, what is another weekend? Time to shop at a new store, because you are out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulldogzLife Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 lol I had 1 toon transfered (that I haven't played in months), and 6 that are awaiting transfer (including my main), are you now jealous of me too because a toon I don't even play has had it's free transfer? lol and you think this isn't childish? So not being able to play for a service you are paying equally for, while others are, and being disgruntled is somehow childish? It sounds more to me like you are ok at being taken advantage of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shneakie Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 So not being able to play for a service you are paying equally for, while others are, and being disgruntled is somehow childish? It sounds more to me like you are ok at being taken advantage of. Honestly - it sounds more bitter that you are not getting the upgrade that other's have had for a service that you were ALREADY paying for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shekin Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I have one big concern about these server transfers. The current stance of Bioware seems to be at the moment to hold off on opening more servers up for transfer to get a better idea of how the population will be affected on destination servers. The concern I have for the European PVE servers is that currently, out of 20 servers, 9 of which have been transferred to Red Eclipse. What happens if they open up a further 5 servers to Red Eclipse and then decide that Red Eclipse is full? The remaining 5 servers would have a vastly reduced population compared to Red Eclipse. Would they then allow people to transfer off of Red Eclipse? And would people want to. As far as I see it, there are 2 options. 1) Allow every remaining English PVE (European) server to transfer to Red Eclipse now, which carries the risk of over populatiing the server. 2) Pick a destination server from the remaining 10 and open up transfers to that for the remaining 9 servers. Anything else could leave to completely imbalanced server population. Also, throw the PVE servers a bone here, ALL of the European English PVP servers (20!) have transfers open to one server, whereas only half of the PVE servers have got transfers up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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