Chirru Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 The longer I play the more I realize how little TOR has to do with SW. The Jedi (and Sith) take Force sensitive Children (and young adults) and train them to be Knights. Guess what? The first thing these Padawan must do is to: Slay creatures and people, loot them and sell the looted items, so as to pay for their training. Where does this midget brain idea come from? It is not SW at all (my opinion), and neither did I witness anything remotely resembling such a system in the movies. Imagine. Obi telling Luke. : Luke, today you go out and sly some Rats, sell them and then give me the credits, then I will train you. and if you do not...then I will not train you. See! What a ridiculous idea. This is just what happened to me when approaching an Instructor at the Academy. Come on Developers! You can do better. Make at least initial training (until level 10) for free. Please switch on your brains and get some SW into SW. This is not a malicious post. I actually try to get some improvement here to get away from the Kindergarten WoW Principe. Regards, your casual PvE player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiQuaeQuod Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 So you'd just have skill progression and ability unlocks... for free? Got to say, some of the later-level costs of upgrading and unlocking abilities are extortionate and are yet another hopelessly over-the-top credit-sink, but really the mechanic of paying for the training each level makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyynk Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I enjoyed your scenario, it really made me lol! But more to the point of your post. I had never looked at immersion from this perspective, but I can see what you mean. I, personally, think that these mechanics are there because that's just the way MMOs are, but they (BW/EA) could definitely do a better job at immersion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJWyler Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Unfortunately, the sad fact of game mechanics>lore/emmersion must rear it's ugly head. This game is plenty SW enough to satisfy me for a long time to come - and it doesn't even need SWG 2.0 content to boot!! BJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmhale Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Luke had already bulls-eyed plenty of womp rats in his T-16 speeder and of course Ben already knew that by the time the movies start. Seriously though, it's just to introduce the game mechanics, which aren't canon at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trussasp Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Hi OP: While what you are saying is technically correct, people need carrots (a reward system) to get them to do things in MMOs. Or if you want a different analogy, we are rats, and we need cheese. It probably should have been just straight time, at least for the light side, and/or challenges, etc., with probably very little material gain. But then, you wouldn't have ANYONE playing light side, and it's a bad enough imbalance already, I believe. But, yeah, you're right, SWTOR doesn't really hold up to light side Star Wars canon. Unless someone has a greater knowledge of the Force, er, uh, I mean Star Wars books.. /lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahaedros Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 So you'd just have skill progression and ability unlocks... for free? you'd rather have skill progression and ability unlocks THE EXACT SAME AS IN EVERY OTHER MMO? ... Why does SWTOR have to be a wow clone? can't someone at bioware and ea come up with original ideas like it's their job? gold sinks are something that unimaginative game companies believe is a requirement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celebrus Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 you'd rather have skill progression and ability unlocks THE EXACT SAME AS IN EVERY OTHER MMO? ... Why does SWTOR have to be a wow clone? can't someone at bioware and ea come up with original ideas like it's their job? gold sinks are something that unimaginative game companies believe is a requirement... You could present us with a reasonable alternative instead of just telling us that every MMO ever made was doing skill progression wrong. That would be a place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenzali Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 The reasons that your training is interrupted is stated very clearly in the class stories, if you didn't spacebar past them all. For example, Yuon says that she had so carefully planned your training but the Flesh Raiders are attacking and you need to rescue some artifacts. I personally found the search for the secrets of the Force to be much more interesting than your run-of-the-mill training, like in the original Fable game. The player characters are "unique" and each ends up being one of the most powerful characters in the galaxy by the time you finish your class story at level 50. It's entirely convincing to me that two such Jedi individuals just happened to have more important events interrupt their training. Besides, lifting rocks repeatedly and hitting a training dummy with a sword wouldn't make for very compelling storytelling even if it is more like "real" Jedi training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiQuaeQuod Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 you'd rather have skill progression and ability unlocks THE EXACT SAME AS IN EVERY OTHER MMO? ... Why does SWTOR have to be a wow clone? can't someone at bioware and ea come up with original ideas like it's their job? gold sinks are something that unimaginative game companies believe is a requirement... I've never played WoW, nor any other RPG-style MMO. I would have preferred SW:ToR to have used a more open skill purchasing system based on level unlocks, points and customising your class to the maximum whilst it retaining a favoured set of proficiencies, but it's much too late for that! Personally I hate how everything has been made into a credit sink (abilities, legacy, even repairing gear and travel costs), but I don't think completely free skills upgrades would really be worth the immersion, even if I think they're overpriced and having to pay for them in currency is largely useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giondi Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 So you'd just have skill progression and ability unlocks... for free? GW2 has it, and apparently, that's the game that's completely redefining the genre and making everything good again. No, this game mechanic doesn't make all that much sense as far as lore goes, but it would be extremely unbalanced for Jedi and the military classes (Agent and Trooper) to get their skill training for free while everyone else pays (Bounty Hunters and Smugglers are paying for underworld training from not always legitimate sources and Sith do nothing without personal gain). I guess you could argue that as an apprentice, your Sith master would want you taught and the trainers don't want to piss off Baras or Zash up until you become the person who killed Zash, at which point they don't want to get on your bad side. But that still leaves the other two classes who would have to pay, and there's already not many Smugglers around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charon Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 So you'd just have skill progression and ability unlocks... for free? Got to say, some of the later-level costs of upgrading and unlocking abilities are extortionate and are yet another hopelessly over-the-top credit-sink, but really the mechanic of paying for the training each level makes sense. I think what the person meant is that, it doesn't make sense for a Jedi to work for credits or such and have possessions of their own like a speeder, that kind of thing is forbidden for Jedis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inzuher Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Well, instead of just making the training free I think it could be exciteing to add certain quests were you most do something speciel to learn a certain abililty, like you had to do in wow ones. Back then a warlock for instance had a special quest to unlock all his demons but the start of Imp. In my opinion that was epic. However, the game became to mainstream and removed that part because a majority of people didn't care for quest linjes, they just wanted to smash things... Then again this game is different and I would love to see abillity unlocking quests like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibbit Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 This is a great idea! It would also be really immersive if all the planets were to scale, imagine having to drive for 4 hours in your speeder across the desert so you can find the part you need to fix your spaceship, or how about when you die... you die! You have to reroll another character because just coming back to life after being dead for 10 minutes isn't how it happens in reality... Would it be nice if things were a bit more realistic? Yes. The trouble is that the line has to be drawn somewhere. If you want to have a game where to learn how to project you need to spend 8 hours meditating in front of your monitor, contemplating how to use the force to manipulate a rock - great. I will be using my credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creedys Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 This is a great idea! It would also be really immersive if all the planets were to scale, imagine having to drive for 4 hours in your speeder across the desert so you can find the part you need to fix your spaceship, or how about when you die... you die! You have to reroll another character because just coming back to life after being dead for 10 minutes isn't how it happens in reality... Would it be nice if things were a bit more realistic? Yes. The trouble is that the line has to be drawn somewhere. If you want to have a game where to learn how to project you need to spend 8 hours meditating in front of your monitor, contemplating how to use the force to manipulate a rock - great. I will be using my credits. Go play SWG? Oh wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charon Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) Go play SWG? Oh wait. Huh still possible to play it, a fan made a private server for it and from what I know it still works. Edited June 11, 2012 by Charon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutive Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I think what the person meant is that, it doesn't make sense for a Jedi to work for credits or such and have possessions of their own like a speeder, that kind of thing is forbidden for Jedis. You know, I personally think it would be freaking awesome for Jedi to be given their Speeder, have to return all their credits to the Council, and get repairs + training for free. But I have a feeling that players would freak out when they were like, "Oh, and BTW, you can't buy gear...or pets...or legacy unlocks...or all the things the other classes get because you rolled a Jedi, and Jedi don't get to own things." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanez Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Because than bounty hunters would get free rockets and flamethrowers until lvl 10 which makes no sense, but that would just be fair. Also you get credits from your main quests, did you ever see Luke getting credits for killing that wampa? Edited June 12, 2012 by Chanez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charon Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 You know, I personally think it would be freaking awesome for Jedi to be given their Speeder, have to return all their credits to the Council, and get repairs + training for free. But I have a feeling that players would freak out when they were like, "Oh, and BTW, you can't buy gear...or pets...or legacy unlocks...or all the things the other classes get because you rolled a Jedi, and Jedi don't get to own things." Of course, it is an mmo after all, if they wanted to make it completely canon in a novel, they wouldn't mention credits for the Jedis nor the trooper and sith. For the operations it would of been mini alliances between the empire and the republic, Bounty Hunter and Smuggler would of course ask for credits. Oh and technically the Jedi's gear would come from the council pretty much, they can't send their Jedi on missions naked after all, nor would they completely upgrade their gears. Troopers gear would come from the republic, the only classes that would really waste credits on gear in canon sense would be the Bounty Hunter, the Smuggler and even the Imperial Agent. But yeah it is an mmo so you have to give credits for a lot of things, otherwise if everything was free, game would end up boring, or if it took you weeks to learn a new move, it would also be boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutive Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Of course, it is an mmo after all, if they wanted to make it completely canon in a novel, they wouldn't mention credits for the Jedis nor the trooper and sith. For the operations it would of been mini alliances between the empire and the republic, Bounty Hunter and Smuggler would of course ask for credits. Yup, I'm pretty tolerant of some funky plot points and mechanics due to the fact that it is, after all, an MMO. Yeah, smugglers probably should be off smuggling stuff and taking over enemy ships rather than doing quests planet side. Agents probably should be allowed to run off with Hunter, join the Star Cabal, and die in each other's arms as they watch the world burn. Jedi probably shouldn't get credits. Etc. etc. But it's an MMO, and certain things have to happen. So everyone uses the same currency. (Even if it would be pretty awesome to deny Jedi credits and watch them all freak out.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlyxDinas Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Gameplay and story segregation, OP. If you can't suspend your disbelief that much, video games might not be for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake_Ryu Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Story is fantastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkirin Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 As a trainee Jedi I had to kill rats and sell things to vendors. Once I had realised that this was all a test, I now sit around on fleet and meditate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 The Secret World (unreleased) has no levels for it's characters. But taking out a grind isn't the solution. The issue is that that while the class missions are cool, the other missions get boring fast. I'd suggest that increasing the XP from World Missions - Tatooine The Thing That Czerka Found - and the bonus series would benefit the players. That way if leveling up took less time you wouldn't have to do some many of the same missions a second time. I'm okay doing the same planet missions x4 but only if there's a real benefit. The whole "kill [random number] of those, and steal [random random number] of that" is just too grindy. It's not the story-gameplay segration, it's the banality of the quests. And the daily comm missions... yeah, let's turn endgame into a grind (that's got to be a big part of why so many people roll Biochem, to get 2 Rakata Implants) that won't annoying 20% of the player base. I understand having to grind HM Flashpoints for Columi gear, what I don't understand is why the missions are so BORING - well not all of them. I liked the Balmorra mission where I got to decide the fate of a cheating wife. And I loved the chance to visit the Endar Spire on Taris (reminded me of KOTOR). Thing is that we shouldn't do planet missions just for credits and XP, we should do them because they're fun. Some of them are very fun, but a lot of them are just boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erei Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 The longer I play the more I realize how little TOR has to do with SW. The Jedi (and Sith) take Force sensitive Children (and young adults) and train them to be Knights. Guess what? The first thing these Padawan must do is to: Slay creatures and people, loot them and sell the looted items, so as to pay for their training. Where does this midget brain idea come from? It's clearly stated during the very first "SW rolling text" you are a padawan since years. You come to Tython for the very end of your training (at least as a padawan). For both JC and JK. It's even stated later for the JC story, you were more talented in the force at 9-12yo (don't remember) than many masters. I think it's also mentioned somewhere Tython is too dangerous for the new padawan, they are trained elsewhere, then are sent to Tython to perform the last trials. Also, you are the most talented jedi they have seen so far. You are truly superior to almost every master of the academy (except maybe Satele), which is probably why they send you fighting. Your chance of success/survival is higher than anyone else in the temple. BW just cut the 10-15years training you had, because it would have been a pain for almost everyone except the most hardcore SW fans. The whole selling stuff to pay for training is stupid, for any class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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